Glatt On Demand? A 2nd Interview With Dr. Temple Grandin

I spoke with Dr. Temple Grandin  today about the yield of glatt-kosher meat, the rate of unconciousness after shechita, and other matters.

According to Dr. Grandin:

1. All things being equal, the rate of unconsciousness using a Facomia upside-down pen and the rate of unconsciousness using the ASPC standing pen should be almost equal.
2. The more agitated the animal is, the slower the unconsciousness rate will be.
3. In practice, that means that the unconsciousness rate in upside-down shechita is slower, because the animal is more agitated.
4. In expert shechita – defined as a swift cut severing both the jugulars and carotids on a calm animal – the animal should be unconscious within 10 seconds.
5. Some animals killed in that manner may be unconscious at 3 or 4 seconds, others at 6 or 7, still others at 9 or 10.
6. The variables are due to both to the individual shechita and to biological differences between animals.
7. [It is important to remember that the type of shechita Dr. Grandin is describing was not shown on the PETA video, and appears not to have been practiced at Rubashkin.
8. Therefore, all time measurements noted above would not apply to AgriProcessors.]
9. In Europe, animals are held in the pen for 20 seconds after shechita to ensure that the animal is unconscious before hoisting.
10. If expert shechita as defined by Dr. Grandin above is practiced, 15 seconds should be enough.
11. Any animal that shows signs of consciousness at that point is stunned.
12. Dr. Grandin reiterated that the animals on the PETA video that walked or tried to walk or right their heads after shechita were conscious.
13. Any comparison between a chicken running with its head cut off and those cattle is "ridiculous" and those who make such comparisons "don't know much biology."
14. The animals on the PETA video clearly felt the trachea excision / throat-ripping.
15. Currently, no glatt-kosher facility uses Dr. Grandin's pen. Why? Because outside of AgriProcessors, there are only two or three small US-based beef producers currently producing glatt, and they are using their own homemade pens (and do standing shechita). [Clarification: A source in the food science community writes, "There are only two other major Glatt slaughterers in the US. Aurora in Illinois and Truitt {actually, J.W. Treuth} in Maryland. Both use an upright box and both have permitted Temple to visit.  There are also one or two really small systems in Omaha and St. Louis among others that do Glatt and they also use an upright pen. That is the important information.  And in Canada all glatt slaughter is also upright.  So the point is that the pens are properly built, properly maintained and properly used."]
16. Kosher producers (as opposed to glatt-kosher producers) do use Dr. Grandin's pen design or very similar products.
17. Dr. Grandin noted that beef producers need contractual definitions of glatt in order to properly structure their businesses.
18. Kosher supervising agencies have consistently refused to provide those definitions of glatt – no matter how strict.
19. [This may be due in part because of the desire of the rabbis to rely on leniencies in Jewish law's definition of glatt when the demand is higher, and the fear of confrontation with plant management when leniencies in Jewish law are not relied on at other times.]
20. Dr. Grandin noted that the natural and organic segments of the beef market are rapidly growing.
21. Because small beef producers can not compete with large beef producers like IBC, the small producers specialize.
22. Once that specialization meant kosher or glatt-kosher.
23. Increasingly that specialization is now natural and organic.
24. Why? Because natural and organic yields are easy to calculate in advance and the producers can easily structure their business.
25. Kosher production – especially glatt-kosher production – is difficult to structure, especially without a standard contractual definition of glatt provided by kosher supervisors.
26. [Israeli beef producers – including those under non-hasidic supervision –  shackle and hoist and shackle and cast. Both methods are considered inhumane in the west.]