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August 07, 2014

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Shalom Israel

Why doesn't that punk apologize if he is such a saint? If he apologized and showed Charatah, I wouldn't be writing to say what a sham is. And it started with the Rebbe who hijacked Lubavich. I would forgive him. I guess the Rebbe is going to ride in and swoop Rubashkin off his feet from Penitentiary. Hey if I can believe the Rebbe is coming back from the dead. So is Jesus and Mohamad. Do we have to rechoose now that we are on the same playing field. I think this week I feel like having Sabbath on Friday or maybe Saturday or Sunday. We NEED the Moshiach N O W.

Shalom Israel

When Chabad says so its always true. The Rebbe is Moshiach and Now he is dead he is coming back and Rubashkin is a Tzadik and an angel because of the set up. I was fine until it was said the Rebbe is coming back. I thought we don't believe in that. Therefore I say 100% these are very dangerous to our religion, theese people who are not Jewish anymore but Shnersinism and that unforutunatley is OK, with lying, stealing, cheating. Its a sad hour for us. Please Hashem bring the Moshiach now. Its as good a time as any. It was predicted this horrible outcome would happen if the Rebbe wasn't Moshiach. Upon further investigation I have asked researched. The Rebbe never speaks of the Moshiach. He leads others to think that he was Moshiach. What kind of a man lets on people like he did. And many lost forever. I don't even think anything can bring them back. I hope Chabad isn't Jewish, it would be a load off of our backs. We want the Moshiach now, that's for sure.

Shmarya

No.

It was years of stealing and cheating and and animal abuse – in other words, the crimes he committed.

You need to stop believing haredi lies.

wirbelwind

Is it correct that Rubashkin's main mistake was in arrogantly treating like drek the junior white trainee immigration officers who first came to see him? And that they were mightily peeved & reported it to their superior, & that it escalated from there, & that had he treated them with some respect, the scnadal would never have seen the light of day?!

Just Curious

Well, rabosai, I gotta be honest… I used to think HoRav HoGaon Sholom Mot’che Rubashkin, sh’yicheh l’chaim toivim aruchim ul’sholom, was nothing more than a common (if accomplished) criminal. But this incisive, insightful editorial has changed my mind for the following reasons:

1. Rav Sholom invited a fellow chareidi Jew over for yontif. What a mentsch that, “in the end”, the great man even allowed the bochur to stay for “the entire Yom Tov”!

Also, thank HKB”H that, clearly in the Gaon’s great merit, He protected Rav Sholom and his casually racist passenger from the ayin horah imposed upon them by the goyishe “natives” of Crown Heights who “stared at [them] menacingly” as they made their way to the safety of Rav Sholom’s (undoubtedly lavish) home.

2. Rav Sholom answers letters/e-mails (even those containing truly atrocious poetry) from his prison pen pals with teshuvos laden with a profusion of poorly transliterated frummie words and phrases.

3. This editorial was composed by no less a personage than Rabbi Nachman Seltzer himself, the prolific and celebrated author of such “classics” as:

“The Network” (not to be confused with the classic film “Network”, l’havdil)
“48” (not to be confused with the classic film “48 Hours”, l’havdil)
“It Could Have Been You” (not to be confused with the classic film “It Could Happen to You”, l’havdil)
“Class Acts” (certainly not to be confused with the classic Kid 'n Play film “Class Act”, l’havdil ad bli dai)

(Each of which occupies a place of honor on my bookshelf right alongside such other classics of Jewish literature as the Shulchan Oruch and Va’yoel Moishe.)

Rest assured that Rav Seltzer’s heilige editorial will be lovingly copied by hand, laminated, and hung up in every room of my house (not unlike the asher yotzar posters that adorn the walls outside each of my bathrooms, because, after all, who could be expected to know asher yotzar by heart? Except perhaps the godol Rav Sholom Mot’che...).

I will expect orchim to my home to kiss it as they pass, since it has opened my eyes to the fact that Rav Sholom Mot’che truly deserves pride of place in the pantheon of the heroes of Jewish history, alongside Moishe Rabbeinu, the Chasam Soifer, Rav Elyashiv, Rav Shteinman, and Rav Kanievsky.

Robert J. Barron, Attorney-at-Law

It's fascinating how we keep beating this particular dead horse over and over.

The haredi/hasidic community will never believe anything other than this was a government conspiracy by anti-semites to "take down" a successful Jewish businessman.

The fact that he was convicted at trial, while receiving all the protections of the 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendments to the United States Constitution, is something that the average US haredi/hasidic (like Yosef and JACK) simply cannot process, much less begin to comprehend.

And therein lie the seeds of a tragedy.

I'm not talking about Rubashkin, per se. I'm talking about the men (women do not go into business in that community) who are going to follow him into prison in the years and decades to come, because their parents are raising them to believe that when a haredi/hasidic man commits a crime or a series of crimes....as long as he is religious, gives to charity, attends shul, etc....than he has not really done anything wrong, and he is simply a "victim" of "goy laws".

If you don't believe me, look at the inner-cities of Baltimore, Detroit, New Orleans, etc, etc, etc. At a certain point, law-breaking becomes culturally ingrained.

What an example to set.

R Nash

Sholom Rubashkin is alive and well. Why all the eulogies?

Jekyll Jacobson

AK
Du bist nisht mizera Avraham Avinu.

Alter Kocker

An orthodox man came to my door collecting tzedakah. He said in his broken english that he was collecting for a "political prisoner", a tzaddik in the community, a great man wrongly convicted. I was expecting a picture of someone held in a gulag somewhere. Then he showed me Rubashkin's picture. I remarked, "Ah, der ganef"

The first name I was called was momser, the second was goy. He looked at the mezuzah on my door and said I should remove it, di bist nicht cain yid. I closed my door.

Shari

@wirbelwind--Federal prisoners typically serve 85% of their sentences. That works out to 23 years for Mr. Rubashkin. As he was sentenced in June of 2010, he can look forward to release in June 2033.

Chafraud-Depravitch

Of course Sholom Rubashkin is a saint!

Heck, if we didn't already have a Rebbe Messiah, Sholom Rubashkin would be our guy.

He's even one up on the Rebbe!

Okay, follow me here.
A couple of our Rebbes went to jail... well, a lot actually. In fact, they often couldn't keep anything south of their gartel out of the slammer (blame the l'chaims). And it often took a miracle from HaShem to bail their kapotas out.
Still, with all of the jail time our great freilich tzadikim did, they never actually did hard time for the sake of our sins.
Kind of a rotten deal if you ask me since the goyim have a messiah who actually died for their sins. I guess in comparison the RebbeHaMelechHaMoshiach™ might seem somewhat impotent if he weren't synonymous with the Almighty and controlling all things.

But Rubashkin, now there's a guy who took some group sin responsibility!
You see, Sholom Rubashkin suffered severely for our sake, and our steak.
Making all of those millions and millions of dollars was nothing compared to taking the spiritual responsibility of any non-kosher slaughter that may have made its way to Jewish tables after having its esophagus ripped out and flailing around in its own blood.
You can bet a lot of Jews ate delicious, juicy, treif meat on Rubashkin's sin tab!

Sholom Rubashkin is so righteous that he even shoulders his people's animal cruelty sins that occurred before and at the slaughtering plant. You would appreciate Sholom's sacrifice if you ever saw the cow tumbling machine spitting out a bleeder.
Clearly only a man of exceptional quality and holy strength can run the operation that can eject blood gushing cows precisely according to G-d's will (and accept the sin for the few that don't turn out so well).

I call him... The Great Rubashkin!
(kinda has that "magical" and "magician" themed ring to it.)
Go ahead, try it. It feels wonderful just to say it...
THE GREAT RUBASHKIN!
THE GREAT RUBASHKIN!
It's THE GREAT RUBASHKIN! Charlie Brown.

If we weren't waiting for the RebbeHaMelechHaMoshiach™ to finish reading that pile of mail and come dancing out of his kever, I'd nominate The Great Rubashkin as the 8th Rebbe.

Rubashkin! Rubashkin!
He's our man!
If he can't make kosher animals trip on their trachea,
No one can!

But we can enjoy none of that now. And the Jewish people (the non-Lubacitch ones) are the ones who will suffer most for our Great Rubashkin being locked away. Had everyone supported him we could have had great new and innovative halachic slaughter tools, techniques, and guidelines.

For example, The Great Rubashkin could have brought wonderful cost saving, cutting edge (pun intended), leniencies with the SNAGS for SNAGS meat program. This meat, even though not kosher for a Lubavitcher, is still suitable for other Jews who all have lower standards anyway. The catchy name comes from the fact that the slaughtered flesh may have been SNAGged a bit during assembly line cutting marathons when things like blessings and maintaining equipment are not always convenient. Get it? SNAGS for SNAGS? How cool is that? Of course most SNAGS are not really noticeable at all (except maybe by the animal when it comes to meat). And best of all, you could have enjoyed meat prices that are almost goyish.
So obviously, it is us outside of The Great Rubashkin's jail cell who suffer.

And if that doesn't cause you regret for not doing eveerything you cold to insure the Great Rubashkin's freedom, this should. Consider missing the possibility of implementing the very first shechita do-over law. This halachic leniency could have saved non-Lubavitch Jewish consumers 1,000's upon 1,000's of dollars in inflated kosher meat costs by retaining all of the meat that would otherwise be called halal/treif.
It could have been a reality until the Feds (and those pesky kids) ruined our plans.

All you critics of The Great Rubashkin will cry for forgiveness when you're paying $14.99/lb for boneless chuck.

Shmarya

Please.

Agriprocessors was caught providing fake docs to undocumented workers. Rubashkin stole money from those undocumented workers, made them work overtime without paying them, and was otherwise horrible to them.

He stole millions of dollars from his lenders, screwed his suppliers, and used that money in part to under price his products to drive competitors out of business, and he also used the money to fund the 'charity' he gave many rabbis, most of who 'miraculously' told their local butchers they preferred them to only carry Rubashkin products.

Process that.

Seraphic

Thousands and thousands of separate crimes.

For such unmitigated selfishness, his family continues to spend his stolen millions

SIXTEEN MILLION TRAIFE MEALS served to unsuspecting Jews who paid high prices.

How many butchers were put out of business by scurrilous activities, not least of which were hundreds and hundreds of shipments of green meat.... specifically to those "mom and pop" shops that Rubashkin succeeded in driving out of business and into debt.

He told one court that he did not steal $200,000 from the employees union, because they were "illegal aliens, and not allowed to have a union" --- IN THE SAME WEEK that he swore to another court that he had no idea that he had 630 illegal aliens working for him.

Blood pressure, blood pressure.

Finally, for those of us who knew him personally, any story of Sholom Rubashkin engaging in an act of kindness, there is no history to cause it be even marginally credible. This is one very, VERY bad apple.... and his family continues to live large from the thousands of thefts committed by the Rubashkin clan. Amazing that the mafia chief himself did not also go to prison.

Yosef


All humans have flaws and the onerous government regulations for most industries are impossible to observe 100%. This man, S Rubashkin, provided kosher meat at a reasonable price, lots of jobs in otherwise economically depressed Postville, and hospitality. He should not be locked up for life. May he be freed now.

As far as hiring illegal Mexican and paying them too little, how are you supposed to tell real from faked documents and legal from illegal Mexicans? Also, if the Mexicans or any employees felt they were being underpaid or wrongly treated, they could leave and get paid more elsewhere, or go back to Mexico, right?

I spent a Shobbos at Mr Rubashkin's house while on my way out west and got a tour of the plant. There were several other guests passing thru who were invited for Shobbos meals. The shalosh shudos at the shul was terrific. The cholent pots were full of meat so fresh it tasted different from Brooklyn meat cholent. (Mr/Mrs Rubashkin were away that Shobbos but his married children hosted.)

RWisler

Incidentally, with regards to the first "Art-Scroll Gedolim" or "Chabad about Schneersohn" story with the Canadian kid, it was not until June, 2009 that passports were required for Canadians to cross back into the U.S. at the land border. Although Mr. Rubashkin's eyes may indeed "twinkle", the story is probably not true.

RWisler

A "rosh yeshiva" from the local institution once came a' beggin' for money from me. I told this guy that because of the race hatred that's a characteristic of Orthodox Judaism in not helping others who are not of their persuasion, I would give my "mei'ser" to Salvation Army who assist needy gentiles AND Jews regardless of their faith (or lack of it). While I realize that Salvation Army has its problems, they do not discriminate. The hungry are fed by them and they benefit society greatly, unlike his institution.

These self-centered Orthodox institutions get nothing of my charitable giving.

dh

JACK, you ignorant slut. It is clearly stated that he needed it to cross the border int Canada. Therefore this happened post 9/11.

dh

Hi Eli Messiah! I was just thinking about you!

Yahoshua David

Cult.

Also notice how Hashem is nowhere to be found in either writings (expcept in a supersticious way). The letters are about name dropping, ancestor worship, people as magic beings - essentially paganism.

Isa

There is no difference between a white slave plantation owner that gives money to the e.g.[white] orphanage

and Rubashkin who gives to his own kind

Yet all the while slaving the workers

SkepticalYid

Posted by: Joe Field | August 07, 2014 at 07:50 PM


He never responds when his lies are exposed.

SkepticalYid

Posted by: JACK | August 07, 2014 at 09:33 PM

Or an extended driver's license. You lose.

JACK

Eli what me messiah,
You just proved to all of us,that it is you
who is the ignorant one,
because the simple fact is,that up to 9/11 all you needed to pass the Canadian border was a valid U.S drivers license, I should know,because i have dual U.S and Canadian citizenship,and for years whenever traveling back to Canada i only took along my drivers license,it is only since 9/11 that a passport is required.

Eli, what me messiah?

"I have a friend who while learning in Lakewood many years ago, found himself stranded in BoroPark on erev Sukkos. He had been supposed to go to Montreal for Yom Tov, but had left his passport in the dorm, not knowing that he needed it to cross the Canadian border."

Ah....he didn't know Canada is a different country?

Yet another unwitting example of the ignorance derived from a haredi education....

Joe Field

Wirbelwind,

“Is it really possible that 23 years from now in 2037 that Rubashkin could still be sitting in jail?!”
No, his release date is written in stone, as long he doesn’t commit a new crime in prison.

wirbelwind

Is it really possible that 23 years from now in 2037 that Rubashkin could still be sitting in jail?!

Ina case like his, short of a presidential pardon, when is he realistically going to be released?

state of disgust

"Did he actually given them clean smocks or did he just take the money?"

The company operated its own laundry in the plant and provided clean smocks. The "laundry ladies" also provided first aid to injured employees.

Subsequent to the raid, Rubashkin hired someone with an EMT background when he was finally convinced that was prudent.

Most plants have a nurse on duty during work hours. I have met several who have Emergency Room backgrounds - a good idea given the seriousness of meat plant injures.

Joe Field

SkepticalYid;

How do you expect Mefoar would know that every church, religious institution always gave charity? His brain is incarcerated in yesteryear ghetto.

David

+++Rubashkin used to charge his employees $1/pay period for a clean white smock, something he was required to provide to his employees per USDA regulations.+++

Did he actually given them clean smocks or did he just take the money?

Joe Field

Alter Kock
“They will not see the evil perpetrated on non-jews, nor will they see that thievery from both the banks and government are in fact crimes. The only crime that counts is Jew on Jew.”

You are totally wrong even Jew on Jew crime doesn’t count as long they are not from their own crime family, like the "Cosa Nostra".

state of disgust

Rubashkin used to charge his employees $1/pay period for a clean white smock, something he was required to provide to his employees per USDA regulations. The money was deducted from employee paychecks (although employees could elect to wash their own smocks themselves - something that rarely occurred).
Given the number of employees, this worked out to a savings to Agriprocessors of approx. $50,000 a year. When I mentioned this to other plant owners, they laughed and couldn't believe he tried to get away with this scam.

Incidentally, that same amount was what Rubashkin gave (minimally) annually to Chabad.

Does the term "other peoples money" sound familiar?

dh

Dear JACK,

Do you ever get embarrassed by your unfettered inability to comprehend the world around you, or is your feted vitriol your cover?

Regards,
vicious bloodthirsty evil monster

BeenThereDoneThat

He IS a saint, can you not see his black halo???

(Possibly a saint of the sitra acher?)

David

Are they deifying him?

Shmarya

Jack –

He is NOT in solitary confinement and his sentence, while very long, is not life.

And he wouldn't be in this position if he hadn't done all those crimes and if people like you hadn't enabled him.

Office of the Chief Rabbi

Wow. Shmarya called him a saint. And not a single badmouthing of MMS, or Chabad.

This is not the first inkling today that he's gone soft.

Could it be that Shmarya's done teshuva, and is planning to move back to Brooklyn?

zachw

"the natives stared at us menacingly..."

Translation: Those jungle bunnies scare me.

jancsibacsi

Mefoar--Here i agree with you on the chessed that hassidim do,just this shabbas at a kiddish i ate such fantastic chulent with kishkes i told myself oy gevalt theese people hassidim are truly kind also forgot ate such fine gebachtzen cakes i love them:)

jancsibacsi

JACKiboy--What are you talking about bad mouthing torturing another yid,he rubashkin loves it in jail didnt you read the piece before whats wrong with you

BM

A lot of people here who obviously need to listen to some mussar on loshon hora.

SkepticalYid

Posted by: Mefoar | August 07, 2014 at 12:28 PM

Okay, prove it. Prove that Haredim do more chesed than Amish, Mennonites, Witnesses, Quakers or any other denomination of any faith does for their own. Let's see some objective data that proves your statement. Otherwise it's worthless.

JACK

Shmaryah,only a vicious bloodthirsty evil monster,would kick and bad mouth a fellow Jew who is serving a life sentence in solitary confinement.
You remind me of the cursed jewish Kapo's in Auschwitz,when an inmate collapsed and fainted
from hunger and fatigue,the Kapo animal went over and kicked him some more with his Nazi boots,and just like in Auschwitz,when the Nazi's German Sheppard saw a jew writhing in pain on the floor,the dog attacked him and took a bite out of him,so too as on cue,your own little lapdog poodle and tuches leker "Jancsibasci' right away jumped up to take a bite out of poor Rubashkin,
hey Shmaryah,make sure to throw your poodle a nice juicy bone

Robert J. Barron, Attorney-at-Law

I remain fascinated by a mindset that either excuses or overlooks crimes committed by one of their own members, and instead talks about what a "saint" this person is because he gave someone a ride and invited him to stay over at his house a few years ago.

Said it before and I will say it again- this community is raising a generation of young men who will follow their fathers and uncles into prison. When a community continually rationalizes and minimizes breaking the law, it is inevitable that such rationalizations are transmitted to it's younger generation.

What an example to set.

ah-pee-chorus

Sarek- Good point. It's a win-win .

Sarek

Then this great tzaddik should be grateful that Hashem has placed him in prison where he can share his greatness with those who need it most.

jancsibacsi

Mefoar--I understand you,you as i see it are a genuine erlehe meanning very honest religious person but many hassidim are not so you find it hard to grasp the magnitude of what rubashkin did stole so much money,some people just cannot bring themselfs to accept that amongst youre own you have such heartless thiefs

Mefoar

My comment was to the stories you brought from Yeshiva World.Maybe i didn't read clearly but i don't see any mention of Rubashkin giving money.

Haredim and that goes for normal sane kindhearted human beings usually don't stomp and kick a beaten man.Unless if someone is a murderer he deserves the worse.And in many cases you will find that some families will forgive even a murderer.

Shmarya

Mefoar –

Stop lying.

You know very well that Rubashkin gave tens of thousands of dollars (if not more) in tzedeka taken primarily from money he stole.

It was mentioned at trial , it was mentioned in the judge's sentencing memorandum – and it was reported here many times.

The rest of what you wrote just proves my point. In your community, no matter how many non-haredim are hurt, as long as a haredi person gives tzedaka to haredi charities, he's kosher – and if he gives a lot of tzedaka, he's atzaddik.

dh

If he dies in jail, they will 'pray' to his empty cell.

Mefoar

""For haredim, kindness to them – even when given at the expense of poor non-Jews, makes Rubashkin a tzaddik (saint), as you can see here:"

a)i don't see here any of his kindness in money terms where you can say he stole from one and gave to others.

b)Like it or not Judaism and for the most part those who observe it FULLY in which case these days are called "Haredim is based on Chesed and there is no other people as Haredim that do so much chesed with one another.
Part of chesed is to bring out the good from other people even if they are not so good.This is "Haredim"

Evil people who have no clue what chesed is all they love is Jewish Haredi blood even when the persons blood is spilled they cant get enough will point out only the bad of a beaten person.

Alter Kocker

They will not see the evil perpetrated on non-jews, nor will they see that thievery from both the banks and government are in fact crimes. The only crime that counts is Jew on Jew. This is the earmark of the cult. The cult does not recognise the non-jew. The cult does not disparage any crime committed on a non-jew.

Mr Rubashkin is a thief, a liar and the acts perpetrated on his employees are beneath contempt. He deserves his jail sentence and more. All to orthodox community does is show that they are complicit in his crimes and deserve to be viewed with a jaundiced eye.

jancsibacsi

i can only say it is gevaldig,awsome:) if if werent a tragedy.

DK

He needs to stay in jail. As long as his supporters insist on lionizing this SOB, the state needs to stand by his long sentence.

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