Another Haredi Synagogue Bans Beggars

Another haredi synagogue – this one Sefardi – bans beggars, a haredi Jewish family with children from outside New York City is homeless, and a homeless Jewish woman in her 50s wanders the streets of Brooklyn.

 

A quick Jewish poverty and homelessness update:

• I’m told by multiple sources that Bnei Yosef, a Sefardi haredi synagogue and ‘minyan factory’ in Ocean Parkway and Avenue P has banned all beggars from begging inside the synagogue. They also are barred from using the synagogue’s bathrooms and cannot eat any food or drink any coffee, tea or other beverages put out for congregants.

This is a clear violation of halakha that mirrors a similar ban issued by Landau’s shul in Flatbush earlier this month. Landau’s allows approved beggars, almost all hasidim, inside the synagogue to beg but bans all the others – even when they are known to be Orthodox.

• Late last week I spoke with the head of a homeless family with children. He had worked as a mashgiach for various kosher supervisions outside of New York City but lost his housing this month and has been sleeping with his wife and one child on the floor in various peoples’ residences or in the family’s car ever since.

The area of the country he lived in does not have much in the way of established Jewish social services and he brought his family to New York City where a family member lives in the hope of getting help.

I later found out that the man’s wife is a legal immigrant who came here approximately two decades ago to marry him.

But apparently the man had to sign a standard promise to the government that she would not become a ward of the state or need welfare, and he’s supposedly now too afraid to seek government help – even though that 20-some-year-old pledge almost certainly would not cause her to be deported. And because the Jewish community’s resources are so closely tied to federal, state and city programs and money, he’s afraid to call the Metropolitan Council of Jewish Poverty for help.

• A Jewish woman in her 50s with some level of alleged mental illness is homeless after being evicted from her apartment after a long fight. The Jewish community lacks adequate resources to help people like her and the Met Council allegedly demanded she allow herself to be admitted to a psychiatric facility for evaluation before it offers any help. She refused and was living in Chabad’s main synagogue for almost a month until she was forced to leave and is “now living on the streets,” a fellow beggar told me. I’ve spoken with this woman several times, and have seen some of the documents related to her eviction.

Comments

[Lubavitchers Are Christians]

So, the first guy is afraid to call the Metropolitan Council of Jewish Poverty for help. He is afraid to apply for govt help, because his wife may be deported. Because of this, somehow, everyone else is at fault.

The woman (with some level of alleged mental illness) was offered help from the Met Council if she would only allow herself to be admitted to a psychiatric facility for evaluation. She refuses, yet somehow, everyone else is at fault.

Gazan terrorists attack Israeli civilians, then hide behind Palestinian civilians. Yet somehow, everyone else is at fault.

And everyone wants to know why antisemitism is increasing.

Its because of the way the media portrays these stories. Does the media suffer from mental illness?

[JACK]

Beggars have to stick up for each other,another shull Shmaryah cannot enter.
Scotty,could you imagine,if the Rabbonim will outlaw begging on the internet,that would be some disaster

[Account Deleted]

Jack,you are a schvantz!How is fund-raising for a blog equal to begging?

[yehuda fulda]

fund raising in an armani suit is ok but begging in a shul crosses the line

[WoolSilkCotton; I must be seen to be believed]

I don't blame these shuls. The problem is out of control. It's not just a problem for shuls. Aggressive panhandling and homeless who occupy your bathrooms all day are a real problem for public places, whether they are restaurants, stores, or shuls.

[WoolSilkCotton; I must be seen to be believed]

Obnoxious aggressive panhandling in NYC takes on many forms:

http://nypost.com/2014/08/11/cops-bust-iron-man-spider-man-and-elmo-in-times-square/

[BeenThereDoneThat]

I think it would be really good to expand this blog into also being a charity for these kind of people who fall between the cracks.

I would suggest that Shmarya, or a nominated US reader of the blog could administer it, and arrange for donations from the readers (and others) to reach the right people, those that the other charities fail.

It would be a good way that we as a group can show what true yiddishkeit is, leading by example.

[JACK]

Abu Jihad. It's very simple,if you don't work have no job and sit in your mothers basement 24 hours a day in front of the computer doing nothing all day but looking to find dirt on your fellow Jew,and therefore having to resort to begging from his readers ,well what would you call it,if not begging,or maybe we should call it. SHNORRING

[SucceededMesiah]

- BeenThereDoneThat: Agreed. If I had the resources, I would do it myself. I also hope this blog spawns action committees (however, the author -clearly- has more than a full time job with his existing workload)

[Lawrence M. Reisman]

B'nai Yosef is not Charedi. It has a mixture, mostly "typical Syrians" who are modern in their outlook. The prevailing minhag is to sing "Baruch SheAmar" to "Hatikva," and prayers for Tzahal and the Medinah are said there. There is one Charedi minyan Shabbos, the B'nai Yosef Torah Center, but it does not make the rules for the building.

[SucceededMesiah]

re:"JACK"

* He lacks the cognitive skills, education, or training to understand how much work it is to run a forum like this.

* As always, in denial and never actually formulating a "teretz" (retort) to the issue presented (resorting to infantile attacks on the author).

* Ironically, the whole original point of hassidut is turned on its head... A populist movement that combated elitism has morphed into exclusionary cliques (based upon unimportant "styles")

* Of course, this includes the violation of countless fundamental mitzvot, or any sense or ethics or morality whatsoever.

[lj]

I donated to a plea for help for the homeless, food etc (not clear on the for Jews part, didn't matter) and found part of my funds went to fund a political statement, that I didn't agree. Though you still get the mitzvah..no one mentions giving a person a job (though current circumstances etc on both). No details listed as exactly why they both lost their homes to begin with, though understand their "current" plight, and shouldn't matter.

[lj]

I believe my Rebbetzin was notorious for giving up her own bed.

[Yosef ben Matitya]

I am no friend of the Syrians, nor of any type of Haredim, but the beggars are often aggressive and obnoxious. Many are outright savages.
They go around worshipers during the shma reading or the shmoneh esreh, in total disregard of customs and manners. They ignore prominent signs directing them to the shuls office where they will be attended to. In addition many shuls have gemachs to help the needy. This is Amerike, not Kasrilivke.

[WoolSilkCotton; I must be seen to be believed]

In restaurants and other public places, the homeless will occupy every bathroom stall and remain there all day. This is in addition to aggressive panhandling and harassing customers.
I can see where some shuls have similar problems.

Even charities set up for the homeless tell people not to give to aggressive panhandlers. Your money will end up being spent on liquor and drugs. Give instead to legitimate charities set up to help the needy.

[Lubavitchers Are Christians]

Can't resist:

Maybe a hashtag will help. The Obama Administration couldn't think of any way to help those poor schoolchildren kidnapped by Boko Haram, other than a #hashtag.

We should also do a hashtag. Like, #LetTheShnorersIntoShul

[lj]

Your money will end up being spent on liquor and drugs-----u judge and assume, you don't know that..there was a discussion on letters accompanying charity requests door to door (rabbis endorsements)..best to give a quarter, than judge, and or give nothing at all. Never assume. That kid on the subway...lived there, studying and going to school for his college degree.

[Yahoshua David]

"• Late last week I spoke with the head of a homeless family with children. He had worked as a mashgiach for various kosher supervisions outside of New York City but lost his housing this month and has been sleeping with his wife and one child on the floor in various peoples’ residences or in the family’s car ever since.

The area of the country he lived in does not have much in the way of established Jewish social services and he brought his family to New York City where a family member lives in the hope of getting help."

I'm sorry bro but this does not define charity. It's more of a symptom of a bad tree baring bad fruit.

As a man his job is to provide for his home and kids. This is the fist curse of man when he gets cast out of the garden. Heredim are not Rabbi's. They arent participating in scriptual work. They arent doing God work or saving souls. Remember books are recent invention. What did people do previous to all this?

I see a guy who is in the greatest country with the most oppertunity and he choses to sit and do nothing but figure out ways to get something for free. This is not in accordance with Hashem.

However, Shmarya is correct because he has more Rucah Ha-kodesh than me. Ultimately the father and everyone else is a victim. There are other people at stake, especially the innocent kids who are living in that condition. If they seriously lost their home when having kids than they do need help.

You must love your neighbour as youself. Would you cry if someone elses child die like you would your own? Thats how hard it is. So ultimately, would you allow your kids to couch surf at people houses and slee on the floor like animals?

[Wigmore]

WSC,

I agree with everything you wrote.

[WoolSilkCotton; I must be seen to be believed]

Wigmore, thanks.

[mechel]

Wonderful. I daven there sometimes in the morning. The Russian women at the door, there are now three, eat the food, drink the coffee, run amongst the men in an un tzniusdikeh manner, and create a nuisance. Sheluchim from Israel and aggressively ask for money in middle of davening. This is not as bad as Landaus, but pretty bad.
Every shul should adopt a no beggars doing davening policy. It is disturbing and not conducive to proper prayers. Kudos to them and Landaus for taking an unpopular position and bringing back decorum to the shul.
Shmarya- don't give me your drivel about these poor beggars. You don't go to shul so you don't experience the disruptions.

PS- same should be for weddings. They sit down anywhere , use the cutlery, smell like Behamos, and fress like chazerim. And they are overweight. No one is starving in the good old USA where 47% of the population is on some sort of dole. And they rifle the pockets in the coats to steal what they can.

[Ray Levy, Bklyn, NY]

Long time reader first time commentator.
While I enjoy reading about all the hypocritical actions taken my our co-religionists, But as a Sephardi (one very familiar with this shul i must say something.
while we should never turn our back on the needy there has to be a middle ground as the amount of people asking and interrupting parts of tefilah is out of hand, Our community is well known for our generosity and we have many programs from Sephardic Bikur Holim, S.F.F (Seph food fund)and S.A.F.E for familiys in crisis, The issue some of the "beggers" have is that some of these programs require verification for release of funds, Many of these needy tell me (my brother and I do many chesed meetings) that they are embarrased to approach the orgs but that makes no sense when you are publicly begging and cornering people for money, Please understand public begging is not a Sephardic custom as we are Shame-Phobic so we have created world class respectful programs to deal with this, The halachic right to beg and give should be equal to the person (who has always given) right to enjoy some quit prayer before work or before going home, As to the Homeless family and hungry mother, are they not less homeless or hungry on Shabbat? or Yom Tov? But no matter how hard you look you wont see them those days as there is no money to be had, Sad to say for some people this is a Job

[Shmarya]

The homeless family has kids in yeshiva and a father who worked as a mashgiach for years.

And like it or not, halakha does not support your position.

[Shmarya]

mechel –

Anyone who believes haredim are charitable should read your comment.

Even when Jewish law mandates being kind to beggars and giving them food, and even when it mandates allowing them to attend weddings and the like even when uninvited, the typical haredi behavior is like yours.

One or two bad beggars becomes all beggars are bad.

Praying with a minyan – a rabbinic enactment – takes precedence over helping the poor – a Biblical commandment.

Ridiculing hungry poor people is the norm.

And as for me not knowing, I was haredi for more than two decades. I was at the Kotel almost every day for more than two years of that time. I know what beggars are and I know what I'm talking about.

[Lawrence M. Reisman]

Shmarya: You write that "One or two bad beggars becomes all beggars are bad." At Landau's shul, the policy was directed at the same 5 or 6 individuals who would show up at 7 AM every weekday, and stay by the front door until midnight (on Fridays they left early). The "Chasidic" beggars as you put it (not all of them are Chasidim by any definition of the word)come once a week, collect at each minyan, and then leave. Some of them can be obnoxious, but most them are not. And they far outnumber the ones who parked themselves outside the shul door every day.

[Shmarya]

The ones who "parked themselves" outside the door were forced to do that by Landau. And the rest of your complaint has no basis in halakha.

[Lawrence M. Reisman]

Shmarya: "The ones who parked themselves outside the door were forced to do that by Landau." They came every day, from 7 in the morning until midnight! Does Landau's shul owe them their entire livelihood? And I do say entire considering that they were there 90 hours every week.

[Wigmore]

Regarding "the head of a homeless family with children" please direct him to the New York Legal Assistance Group where he can receive free help in addressing all the legal issues mentioned in the post.

http://nylag.org/get-help
7 Hanover Square, 18th Floor
New York, NY 10004
212.613.5000

[Shmarya]

Lawrence M. Reisman –

Under halakha, they have every right to beg there, even for 12 or 15 hours.

[Shmarya]

Wigmore –

I don't have a phone number for him and don't know how to contact him. I told other beggars that he likely didn't need to worry about that pledge and that he should call legal aid and they would help him. So far, the beggars I've spoken with haven't seen him in a few days.

[dh]

I think in NY Legal Aid is the 'public defender' and only helps (if you consider completely substandard tired talent, knowledge and the practice of law) with adjudication.

[Bunny's daughter]

Some people don't understand- the UJA agencies are a farce. They might help you if they are paid but that is not even guaranteed. I know that for a fact. I caught JASA committing fraud and no one- including the gov't agency that gave them the contract- would do anything about them. I went to several UJA agencies when I landed in trouble and was told "what did I think they would do for me"- like I was dreck. I informed the head of the UJA and they refused to do anything - even what they promised. The only way to get some help is to participate in the fraud. If you actually want to live as a responsible Jew it is virtually impossible.

[Wigmore]

Shmarya,

Well, now you have the information to pass along to him or other appropriate individuals in need.

---------------
I think in NY Legal Aid is the 'public defender' and only helps (if you consider completely substandard tired talent, knowledge and the practice of law) with adjudication.

Posted by: dh | August 12, 2014 at 08:29 PM

dh,

I'm afraid you have no familiarity at all with the Legal Aid Society. Competition is very great to get hired there and they do indeed have their pick among recent law school graduates most of whom do an excellent job. This is probably the premier legal services office in the country.

I think by your comment "only helps with adjudication" you were trying to say that attorneys from the Legal Aid Society only handle criminal trials. This has not be true for years. Apart from handling appeals as well, here is an extensive list of CIVIL matters with which they help: http://www.legal-aid.org/en/civil/civilpractice.aspx

By the way, both NYLAG and Legal Aid make use of pro bono attorneys like me so you never know when you could get someone with a great deal of talent, skill and credentials helping on your matter.

[dh]

Thanks Wiggles! Good to know.

I've only ever witnessed NY Legal Aid in court and they are useless - a farce - repeatedly, continuously and embarrassingly so. But I'm sure they don't think so.

[Wigmore]

dh,

How many times have you "witnessed NY Legal Aid in court" and why were you there?

[shloime]

allowing or not allowing beggars in a shul is not necessarily about tzedakah or hypocrisy.

one of the shuls that i go to has a strict policy, a) no panhandling during services, and b) the rabbi has set times to meet with the needy, on a one-on-one basis, to ascertain their needs, and to distribute tzedakah, privately. this is to preserve the dignity of those in need, and also to somewhat cut down on the "schnorrers of convenience", or outright fakes, because getting conned isn't tzedakah, it's shtut. (there is a halakhic obligation to make sure that tzedakah goes to the needy.)

on a more personal note, i find it offensive that the schnorrers (the professionals, not the poor people in need), go to a different minyan to daven, because this (modern orthodox) one isn't good enough for them to daven with, but yet it's fine when it comes to handouts. the term is "derekh eretz", i believe.