Modern Orthodox Academic Covers For Late Chabad-Lubavitch Rebbe's Flaws – And His Messianism

Rabbi Dr. Alan Brill teaches comparative religion at Seton Hall University. Brill was driven out of Yeshiva University years ago, and his review of Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz's new book on the life of the late Chabad-Lubavitch Rebbe Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson gives the world a good look into the academic dishonesty inherent to Brill's work that was in part behind that move.

Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson

Modern Orthodox Rabbi Dr. Alan Brill teaches comparative religion at Seton Hall University. Brill was driven out of Yeshiva University years ago, and his review of Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz's new book on the life of the late Chabad-Lubavitch Rebbe Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, who died in 1994 but who is still considered to be the messiah by most of Chabad-Lubavitch followers today,  gives the world a good look into the academic dishonesty inherent to Brill's work that was in part behind that move:

Sometimes I like reading haigiography, currently called sacred narrative, such as saint, zaddik, or mystic tales, not because of the historical truth or the miracles but because they sometimes reflect a worldview better than explicit statements . Adin Steinsaltz in his new book My Rebbe (Maggid Press, 2014) gives a completely romantic ahistorical account of the Lubavitcher Rebbe that is a good read and offers a few gems of insight. The book is written as a form of world wisdom literature so that it can be excerpted in general spirituality magazines on myth and story such as Parabola, to which Steinsaltz is a frequent contributor.…

In other words, Steinsaltz – who I personally like but argue with – has written a fantasy or a fairy tale about Schneerson and packaged it as a biography. And Brill – who as an academic is supposed to be concerned with truth – is fine with that.

Steinsaltz is actually more honest in a sense than Brill is, as this passage of Brill's review unintentionally shows:

The book tells some good stories and reveals much about Steinsaltz as image creator. Steinsaltz describes Isaiah [i.e., Yeshayahu] Leibowitz [the well-known Israeli philosopher and theologian who was the brother of Nehama Leibowitz] on the Rebbe and gives a ridiculous story taken from the oral reminiscences about Rav Soloveitchik and the Rebbe.

‘I knew him [the Rebbe], but he [later] went crazy.’ The caustic comment was typical of Leibowitz, but in Berlin they were on good terms.

Rabbi Joseph Soloveitchik recalled that he once rescued the rebbe-to-be from jail. It was the joyous day of Purim, and the Rebbe observing the usual practice of the holiday – was on the Humboldt University campus, somewhat tipsy. Climbing onto a chair, Menachem Mendel began to speak loudly about religious observance and the meaning of the holiday. Holding a public event without a permit was illegal, and he was promptly arrested for creating a public disturbance. A man on the scene, a respected physician, telephoned Rabbi Soloveitchik and said something about Schneerson being in jail. After securing his release, Rabbi Soloveitchik joked with Menachem Mendel, telling him that he could now become a rebbe. He had been imprisoned as all of the Lubavitcher rebbes had once been.…

Brill writes off Leibowitz's remark about Schneerson's mental health to Leibowitz's eccentricities.

But the fact is that Rabbi Yitzchok Hutner, the great non-hasidic haredi rosh yeshiva, studied with Schneerson one-on-one in the late 1940s and early 50s. Hutner held the same view as Leibowitz, telling several of his closest students that Schneerson was, and I paraphrase here only slightly, bat shit crazy.

Non-hasidic haredi leader Rabbi Elazar Menachem Man Shach, who personally knew Schneerson and disliked him, also held that Schneerson was mentally ill.

Historically, Schneersons married cousins or nieces. (For example, the third Chabad-Lubavitch Rebbe was both the grandson of the first rebbe and the son-in-law of the second, who was his uncle.

Not surprisingly, mental illness runs in the Schneerson family. The Rebbe's father in-law and grandfather-in-law, both his cousins, had known mental health problems, as did his great-grandfather.

All of these men were descended from the first Chabad rebbe, Rabbi Schneur Zalman of Liadi. Schneur Zalman had three sons. One of them, Moshe, converted to Christianity. Contemporaneous documents from the church, the Russian government and from Chabad sources all show that Moshe was also mentally ill.

There are several other Schneerso's with serious mental health issues who are less well known, including one I used to see in Israel in the late 1980s.

But Brill does not mention the well-known (at least in academic circles) mental health issues in that extended family. Instead, he writes off Leibowitz's remark to Leibowitz's well-known sharpness of tongue and leaves it at that – an academic crime considering the messianism that infects Chabad to this day that has a precedent only in the behavior of the Frankists and the followers of Shababtai Tzvi after their leaders died or converted.

Speaking of that messianism, Brill writes:

Finally, what about the messianism? Steinsaltz shows that the Rebbe was concerned with the topic since his youth, that he did not see himself as the mashiach, and that his followers are now adrift and forlorn.

From childhood, the Rebbe had dreams about the coming of the Mashiach. In a letter to Israel’s second president, Yitchak Ben-Zvi, the Rebbe wrote: “From the day I went to cheder [religious primary school] and even before, the picture of the final redemption started forming in my mind – the redemption of the Jews from their last exile, a redemption in such a way that through it will be understood the sufferings of exile, the decrees and the destruction….”

At a 1991 farbrengen, just a few months before his first stroke, some of the Chasidim began a song which clearly named the Rebbe as Mashiach. The Rebbe stopped them quickly and said, “I cannot leave here now, but after hearing such a claim I should leave this room as a protest.”

We may think of the famous Walt Whitman poem about Abraham Lincoln: “O Captain, My Captain.” But for Chabad the situation has been more perilous; the Rebbe’s ship has not reached port. It has not come to rest at the end of its intended course. While in the middle of the sea, it lost its captain.

The problem is that there are conflicting events and actions by Schneerson that indicated that Schneerson believed himself to be the messiah.

The vast majority of Chabad hasidim today consider Schneerson be the actual or presumptive messiah and even the so-called anti-messianists don't really argue against that. Instead, they argue against publicizing that because doing so hurts Chabad's fundraising and its outreach among large sections of Jews worldwide.

This is not secret information and Brill certainly knows it to be true.

But like the dishonest and needy man he is, Brill overlooks all that and gives Schneerson a free pass on the extreme messianism and cult of personality he created.

Yes, fantasy can be comforting and enjoyable – but it never should be allowed to supplant truth.

That Brill would opt for fantasy over fact and would do so in a way that misleads his readers in unforgivable.

Comments

[Moshe]

Who is the great grand-father of the Lubavitcher Rebbe that had mental illness and what is the source of this bit of information?

And how did Rav Shach know the Lubavitcher Rebbe personally? Did they ever meet? Please provide sources for all.

[ruvi]

Shach never met or knew the Rebbe a lie

[Shmarya]

The Tzemach Tzedek had five sons. Only four became rebbes. the fifth, who Chabad says was a businessman, was menally ill. That is the Rebbe's ancestor.

Rav Shach knew the Rebbe in the late 1940s or early 50s, about the same time Rav Hutner did, at the time Shach was being considered for the position of rosh yeshiva of 770.

But this doesn't matter all that much, Moshe. Lots of non-Chabad rabbis who were the rebbe's contemporaries thought the rebbe was mentally ill, Shach and Hutner the most prominent among them. Even the Rebbe's own family thought he was out of touch with reality.

[Outcast Yid]

In all fairness, this review was posted on Brill's blog, not published in an academic journal. He simply enjoyed the book, and made it clear that it was a somewhat fantastical recollection.

I'm aware of YU's refusal of tenure to Brill, which I suppose in a university setting is tantamount to being "driven out". It seemed to me that his scholarship was more light-weight than "dishonest".

[joshua]

SR,
Shach was never being considered for rosh yeshiva of 770. Of course the facts don't matter, now we're in your fantasy :)

[jimmy]

"Rav Shach knew the Rebbe in the late 1940s or early 50s, about the same time Rav Hutner did, at the time Shach was being considered for the position of rosh yeshiva of 770."

Scott,
Rav Shach DID NOT know The Rebbe personally.
He moved to than Palestine in late 1940 or early 1941, unlike Rav Hutner who lived in the U.S. I don't believe Rav Schach ever left Israel, and the Rebbe never went to Israel so they never met.I don't believe they ever met in Europe because they were not from the same area

[joshua]

and I paraphrase here only slightly, bat shit crazy.

Again, this is the area of your own fantasy so huge embellishment and exaggeration appear minor. He wouldn't of taken someone he considered so crazy so seriously. He didn't like certain things about the rebbe that's about the whole story.

[jimmy]

Rav Schach was considered for a position in a Chabad yeshiva in Israel, not in 770 in New York

[Shmarya]

I realize this is all very difficult for Chabad trolls to process, but do try anyway.

The Frierdiker Rebbe and Rabbi Gurary hired two rosh yeshivas for 770. One was hasidic, the other – the rosh yeshiva for gemara, halakha, etc. – was not.

MMS forced out the non-hasidic RY after the FR died.

There were two moments in time when the non-hasidic RY position was open, and Rav Shach was a candidate to fill it.

MMS allegedly blocked that.

[Fleishike Kishke]

The Lubavitcher organization 'JEM' has uploaded dozens of 'Rebbe videos' to Youtube. Watch anyone. Honestly evaluate Schneerson's responses to what people tell him. You can see that MMS was at best socially stunted, but more likely insane.

[SimoneF]

I'm no fan of the Lubies. But the way you are going after Brill for essentially saying in his blog that he enjoyed reading Steinsaltz's "romantic ahistorical" "mystic tales" is flat out weird.

I suspect a grudge at work here.

[joshua]

Oish,
SR,
You take these half stories you heard in your short stint with lubavitch and completely confuse everything. Not surprising, as pirkei avoth says, hatred derails reasoning.
The rosh yeshiva in 770 was not lubavitch until the 80's. That is 30+ years after the FR passed. His name was rabbi piekarski.
Shach was never a candidate for 770. He wa candidate for kfar chabad.

[Yosef ben Matitya]

And how did Rav Shach know the Lubavitcher Rebbe personally? Did they ever meet? Moshe | May 10, 2014 at 10:40 PM

they didn't have to meet, the acts of rebbe mamesh speak for themselves, and they say:
heresy
megalomania

as it says, ein ani vahu yekheuylim ladur beosso euylom!

[Moshe]

The Tzemach Tzedek had five sons. Only four became rebbes. the fifth, who Chabad says was a businessman, was menally ill. That is the Rebbe's ancestor. Shmarya

I'm more interested in the history of old Chabad than the politics of current day Lubavitch. What is the source that R. Baruch Shalom, ancestor of the last Rebbe and son of the Tzemach Tzedek, had mental illness? BTW, RB"S was the last Rebbe's great great grand father.

Can you provide more information about R. Gustman, the litvishe Rosh Yeshiva of Lubavitch and why he was driven out of Lubavitch?

[Shmarya]

Rabbi Gustman was driven out by the Rebbe.

[Shmarya]

At any rate, MMS was delusional.

That Chabad covered this up, that you don't know that his family was rife with mental illness, is not the issue.

The issue is that several major people who were not Chabad and who knew him thought he was mentally ill, and that Alan Brill – who purports to be an academic scholar – chose to cover that up.

[don corleone]

So why not go after big scholars Elliott Wolfson or Moshe Idel who dont mention it? Why not go after JTA every time they have a Chabad story?

[joshua]

There are 2 things relevant.
1. You still haven't changed that Shach didn't know the rebbe personally. You are worse then brill. Even when confronted with actual facts you don't admit it.

2. This whole thing is funny. If Rav Hutner was asked about SR, his response would probably be (mild paraphraze) hes batshit crazy. Even SR would have to admit that both R' shach and R, hutner would have that opinion of him. Now, his response would be obvious: "they say that because they dont like what I do" So you see it is pretty odd that you bring people that certainly think you are batshit crazy as proof of others. Good times. Good laughs.

[Lawrence M. Reisman]

As I recall, the Tzemach Tzedek had six sons, Boruch Sholom, Yosef Yitzchak, Yisroel Noach, Chaim Shneur Zalman, Yehuda Leib, and Shmuel. Boruch Shalom, MMS's great-great grandfather, died in 1854, 13 years before the Tzemach Tzedek died. Yosef Yitzchok became a rebbe in in his father's lifetime and left Chabad entirely. After the Tzemach Tzedek died, his followers were split between Yehuda Leib (Kopys), Yisroel Noach (Nezhin) and Shmuel (Lubavitch). The three streams reunited under Shmuel's son, the Rashab.

As for the inbreeding. Yosef Yizchak's daughter, Steina Sarah, married Shmuel's son, the Rashab. Shmuel's other son, Chaim Shneur Zalman, married another first cousin. The Rashab's son, the Rayyatz, married Yisroel Noach's granddaughter.

[Outcast Yid]

Brill didn't cover anything up. He was reviewing a hagiographic (his words) book about the Rebbe, and treated it as such. He doesn't need to mention every rumor, credible or not, about the Rebbe's mental health (but, in fact, did quote a passage in which someone said the Rebbe was "crazy".)

One of Brill's interests is mysticism, and I hear he is a spellbinding lecturer, which contrasts with his shyness in social settings (I've met him a couple of times). A local young woman met her fiancé at YU, and a the couple's request, her parents flew Brill out to L.A to be the m'sader kiddushin; that says something.

Most recently, Brill involved himself in his two major interests, mysticism and interfaith dialogue, by taking a sabbatical to India. This is a guy with a very broad perspective on the world; he does not have to trumpet the rumors about the Rebbe's mental health any more than he has to mention charges of pedophilia whenever he writes about Mohammed.

Back to the charges that Brill was "driven out" of YU because of academic dishonesty: Can you back that up? Yes, he was denied tenure, but can you back up your claim as to the reason? In any case, his areas of scholarship are probably more compatible with his current role.

Frankly, I don't see why you need to bully a very unassuming professor for writing about an ahistorical fantastical account on his blog, and represent his review as "covering up" a rumor about the Rebbe.

[Shmarya]

don corleone –

I did with Wofson and with several others.

Lawrence M. Reisman –

At least three of the TZ TZ sons were rebbes in his lifetime. One, the "businessman," supposedly refused to do it and the other, Shmuel, who was the youngest (and by many accounts the least qualified), stayed with his father.

When the TZ ZZ died, Shmuel argued that he should become the rebbe of the town of Lubavitch. The other brothers objected. There was a heated battle, a beit din, a ton of dirty tricks and some phsical violence, to boot, before Shmuel was finally named rebbe of the town of Lubavitch.

He used the large income that position – and the control of the gravesites of the 2nd and 3rd Chabad rebbes that came with it – to wear gold embroidered clothing, gold shoes and to drive around in a gold-plated carriage.

The various Chabad streams most certainly did NOT reunite under the Rashab – the communists and the Nazis ended the other streams, except for a small number of followers.

Agudas Chasidei Chabad was originally meant to reflect the existence of those other streams, and their few followers who had escaped to America viewed the 6th rebbe – and especially his successor, MMS – with great skepticism.

That's why MMS basically allowed Agudas Chasidei Chabad to fade away and did not revive it until the late 1970s or early 1980s, when most of the old followers of the other streams had passed away.

Outcast Yid –

Brill attributes Leibowitz's remark to Leibowitz's pithiness and fails to mention that other rabbis of that era who knew MMS also thought MMS was mentally ill.

If Brill chose to cite Leibowitz's comment, he owes it to his readers and to accuracy to put it in its proper context.

That Brill knowingly chose not to is more than enough reason to attack him.

As for his personal teaching charisma, that has nothing to do with his honesty or lack thereof.

[Yosef ben Matitya]

me thinks many m.o.'s or centrist O. are sold on the meenoos for being served a free meal, or often being told that M.O's or Snags are bad except for you (the recipient of the 'free' meal so to speak.).
Those are often fools, idiots who sell their faith against a plate of lentils.
others are attracted by a free meal + sharing the meenoos, the racism, the (often covert) subversive nature of chabad against everybody else jewish. Those are fools to. Not Jewish any longer.

[Ben Eliezer]

Shmarya,
Just to refresh your history: R. Shach applied for a teaching position at Kfar Chabad yeshiva at the time, which is customarily done by presenting a shiur to the yeshiva bochrim and their staff. Some student prodigies at the time had debunked his Talmudic dissertation and, needless to say, he was not accepted.

Re Rav Y. Hunter - it should be noted that he would learn one-on-one with the Rebbe prior to Rayatz's passing. When RYH was saved from the hijacking in the '70s - the Rebbe commented that one of his zechusim is his emphasis on learning and disseminating the works of the Maharal of Prague.

In a halachic correspondence between the Rebbe and RYH in the late '60s, RYH respectfully signs off "yitzchak ben Chana", which is the reverence ine writes to his rebbe as a kvittel.

The correspondence is documented here, pages 96 thru 105 jn the PDF's pages:

http://www.chabadlibrary.org/books/pdf/mbhg-h.pdf

Just to point out.

[Shmarya]

Ben Eliezer –

How Rav Hutner signed the letter has nothing to do with his clearly stated belief that MMS was mentally ill – which, again, was a commonly held belief among rabbis of that era who had known MMS or who were close to those who had.

[jimmy]

"Just to refresh your history: R. Shach applied for a teaching position at Kfar Chabad yeshiva at the time, which is customarily done by presenting a shiur to the yeshiva bochrim and their staff. Some student prodigies at the time had debunked his Talmudic dissertation and, needless to say, he was not accepted."

This is absolute nonsense and frankly quite silly.While it may be true that Rav Schach considered a position in a Lubavitch yeshiva, which was NOT in Kfar Chabad at the time (it was probably the yeshiva in Lod, that later moved to Kfar Chabad in 1963)
The "fact" that he said a shiur that was debunked is nonsense .

Getting back to actual facts which Scott never concedes
*Rav Schach was never considered for a position in 770, total, utter fabrication
*Rav Schach, while a theological opponent, did not know the Rebbe personally or ever meet him
Now that is just nitpicking with his "facts", the whole post is a hatchet job full of lies and nonsense.
I am not a Lubavitcher and was never a Lubavitcher, btw.Lies against ANYONE are lies

[joshua]

SR,
You have created your life's work and parnossah around a person you call mentally ill. Hmmmmmm you're not convincing anyone that your obsession is with a mentally ill person.
As I said,
These people would all call you mentally ill, you know that. Isn't stopping you at all.

[jimmy]

"How Rav Hutner signed the letter has nothing to do with his clearly stated belief"

"Clearly stated"
Where?
The facts are: He requested the Rebbes blessing in their correspondence.Their relationship was complex, no question about it, but you have again taken license to say whatever you want while calling it "clearly stated"

[Shmarya]

Rav Hutner told many of students that MMS was mentally ill. This is well known and is not something I made up.

[jimmy]

Scott,
Try not to go the "easy route" quoting or making up quotes from unknown persons.
I"m quite familiar with the Chaim Berlin yeshiva and have never heard anything like this.
As I said the relationship was complex, but if you were not so lazy, you"d ask someone to translate their correspondence and see that he treated him with reverence going as far as asking for a blessing, just as a chasid would.Btw, you portray Rabbi Hutner as "the great non-hasidic haredi rosh yeshiva", when he actually had quite a Chasidic bent growing up in Warsaw and having a relationship with the Ger dynasty.In fact later on in life he wore chasidic garb, including the Ger version of a shtreimel, knwn as a spodek.Rabbi Hutner was his own man, with his own complexity who cannot easily be pigeonholed

[jimmy]

Btw, I just read Brills review that you linked to and like it .
It is clear that you clearly missed his point about hagiography.He does not accept some of the stories as fact, but feels that one can derive the flavor of a man thru the fanciful tales told about him.
Since you see things in a stark black and white color blind version, this is lost on you.
Interesting that you accuse Brill of academic dishonesty, while clearly violating any basic ideas of truth in journalism by misstating facts in this post and not willing to back up other questionable ones.Though they were pointed out to you .
Way to go Scott.Pot calling kettle black

[Yosef ben Matitya]

jimmy | May 11, 2014 at 01:09 PM

hagiography or not, wether brill believes or not, these people are not cute or nice. just to paraphrase the tanya on the matter of gentiles, there is nothing positive about these trolls.
they are a shame on our faith and identity.
the chessed of these alien crows is chatas.

[Wirbelwind]

"The man of spirit IS insane!" (Hoshea 9:7) - משוגע איש הרוח

[Robert J. Barron, Attorney-at-Law]

@Lawrence ------> "As for the inbreeding. Yosef Yizchak's daughter, Steina Sarah, married Shmuel's son, the Rashab. Shmuel's other son, Chaim Shneur Zalman, married another first cousin. The Rashab's son, the Rayyatz, married Yisroel Noach's granddaughter..."

This should tell us much of what we need to know. I'm a lawyer, not a Doctor (my younger brother got the brains in the family) but it's documented science (not that that matters to the haredi) that inbreeding produces, let's just say..."less-than-desirable" mental results.

Then again, if you aren't going to go to school to learn anything besides memorization of rules written centuries ago, I suppose it's not that bad that you are an inbred idiot.

[Shmarya]

Jimmy –

I can't help your ignorance – or your demonstrated history here of lying.

I clearly understand Brill's review.

What I did is point out that Brill has an OBLIGATION to be honest, and writing off Leibowitz's remark on MMS's mental health to Leibowitz's caustic personality is simply not fair or correct when so many others voiced similar thoughts about MMS – including Rabbi Hutner.

Brill is dishonest for doing that.

He is also dishonest for posting Steinsaltz's claims that MMS was not an advocate for his own messianism without at least discussing all the contradictory evidence that opposes that claim, and Chabad messianism itself.

But academic and emotional honesty is not a Brill strong suit.

[Lawrence M. Reisman]

Robert: I think I posted only the tip of the inbreeding iceberg. Yosef Yizchak, the father of Steina Sarah, married a first cousin as well. If you look up "Schneerson" in the Jewish Encyclopedia, you'll find the family tree, and it is complicated.

[jimmy]

"I can't help your ignorance – "
Scott,
Oh yes you can!
You made a very controversial statement quoting Rabbi Hutner:Just back it up!
That difficult?

[jimmy]

Marriage between cousins is much more common than people would think
From the web, though i can't vouch for the accuracy
"It is estimated that 20 percent of all couples worldwide are first cousins. It is also estimated that 80 percent of all marriages historically have been between first cousins!"
"Albert Einstein married his first cousin. And so did Charles Darwin, who had exceptional children."

In the Western World it is not as common today, but i would not be surprised that marriage between cousins by European Jewry was much more common than people today think it was

[Yerachmiel Lopin]

Chaim Segal, principal of Chaim Berlin's HS would make very disparaging remarks about the Lubavitcher Rebbe. Segal was a student of Hutner.

[jimmy]

"Segal was a student of Hutner."
So?
We were talking about Rabbi Hutner.
Secondly, back up your claim that R'Segal said those things..

[nahal etan]

Stupid article, as I don't think the author is qualified to determine who has or what is mental illness? How is Rav Shach any less bat shit crazy than the Rebbe? Both believe in things that most people would consider crazy. Maybe materialists and secularists are the bat shit crazy ones. My advice: Stop judging others so much. I would go further and say virtually all people are crazy as we are all living a life that no one quite understands. I suspect the author is also a bit nuts along with myself and everyone reading this. Compassion, my friend. That's what the Buddhists counsel and could prob do u some good.

[julian]

@ Robert J. Barron, Attorney-at-Law
Wouldn't you agree with me that everyone here is over reacting to a bunch of hearsay? Especially the allegations of metal illness?

[m]

bottom line , the Rebbe was really something . he knew how to suck money from different sources to fill chabad ' s funds to the max and to draw crowds from all over the world to 770 .

for sure , he fired those who were not Hassidim , I believe MMS fired the non hassidi RY out . he is very capable of doing that . don't forget he is a leader of a sect .

MMS knew how to suck money from non hassidic hard working ppl but he did not want them to serve into his sect .

nobody should be surprised . he was the leader of his sect and had full authority on wanting to do whatever he wanted to do . thank g-d , he did not have any children on his own , and therefore did not leave any successor to take over and run his sect . no, he was not blessed , that's for sure . he was doomed or cursed . that's the end of it .
done , right there .

[Shmarya]

Jimmy –

Repeating the same lie won't change the fact that Hutner did say the Rebbe was mentally ill. That is fact, well known in the haredi world and in the academic world that covers it, and has been so since at least the early 1970s and even much earlier than that for his close students.

And, again, your lies don't change the fact that what Brill did is deplorable.

Now toddle off and bow down to the dead rebbe you claim not follow but really do.

[Joseph]

Steinsaltz was the one to attribute Leibowitz's remarks to the latter's sharp tongue, not Brill. The italics on Brill's blog indicate this, and this can be confirmed by doing an online search in the book (p. 38).

[Amhaaretz]

First cousin marriages were extremely common,. not only amongst European Jews. Rachmaninoff and Stravinsky both married first cousins, which was illegal in Russia at that time. That's why the whole fn world is nuts, but we had some great musicians.

[Shmarya]

Joseph –

Please.

Quoting something but not refuting it or questioning it is wrong. No responsible academic does it.

That Steinsaltz chose to lie to protect his rebbe is one thing; that Brill essentially endorses those lies is quite another.

[jimmy]

"Repeating the same lie won't change the fact that Hutner did say the Rebbe was mentally ill. That is fact, well known in the haredi world and in the academic world that covers it, and has been so since at least the early 1970s and even much earlier than that for his close students."

All I asked was for you to back up this assertion, that you claim is "well known".
That difficult???

Btw, I laugh when you accuse others of "ignorance".Quite a hutzpah from a fellow like you who claims to "know" so much about the Haredi world, yet can't even make heads or tales of s-i-m-p-l-e Hebrew or Yiddish and needs someone to translate for them.
Funny thing is you claim you were in yeshiva........

[jimmy]

Heads or tails or just simply makes up long tales

[Shmarya]

Jimmy –

You're a fool.

The story about Rav Hutner saying MMS was mentally ill has been told for decades. It isn't new.

You want a source citation for a story told orally by his top students for decades?

What do you think they did, publish a book about it?

I'll give you something else to be upset about.

Both Soleveichik brothers opposed a lot of what MMS did, but neither spoke out openly against him, in large part because a Chabad contact they had as children led them to believe certain good things about Chabad that, while possibly true then, were not really true now.

When MMS died and most of Chabad continued to say he was the messiah, AS wrote a famous letter calling that was "shtus," foolishness, but not heresy.

He did so based on information he got on Chabad belief at that time from Rabbi Daniel Moscowitz, who led Chabad in Illinois at that time.

But Danny Moscowitz lied to AS.

And when that was pointed out to AS by several people (including me) AS froze.

He was put in a position of either having to acknowledge he had been lied to and fell for it or he had to refuse to answer any questions or comments on his letter and its brief followup.

He chose to remain silent.

When I specifically asked him if the letter was still in force if Chabad was doing particular things (which it was), AS would not answer.

Ask his family and his close students, however, and what you heard was how hurt and upset AS was that Moscowitz lied to him, and how hurt and upset AS was that Chabad was now clearly outside of Judaism.

Across the Litvishe spectrum, both while MMS was alive and after he died, many gedolim held that Chabad was outside Judaism and the MMS was a cult leader or crazy or both.

But, with the exception of Rav Shach, they failed to campaign against Chabad and MMS.

They didn't think it was their responsibility, they didn't want to deal with Chabad dirty tricks and smears, they were just plain lazy,

Whatever the reason, they told their close students, forbid their students from marrying into Chabad (except in very special circumstances), and told people who came to them for advice to stay far away from MMS and Chabad.

The legacy of this generation of Litvishe gedolim will likely be that failure to publicly expose MMS and Chabad for what it was and is.

Of course, in your warped, ahistorical and, quite frankly, foolish grasp of how history works, none of this means anything because none of these men wrote books saying it.

[Chicago Sam]

Interesting topic; the Rebbe did suffer from mental illness. Whenever he would come back from his father-in-law's grave, he would always talk about the conversations they had together.

Sure sounds like schizophrenia to me.

Upon returning from the RYY's grave, MMS frequently davened mincha when it was pitch black--a view that no Litvisher rav would ever approve. He believed in all the hype generated by his foolish Hasidim, who were only to blind to realize how mad and delusional their Rebbe was. Worse still, he began believing in his own hype--now that's the mark of true insanity.

As much as I dislike Shach, he was 100% about MMS. BTW, he was once considered for the Rosh Yeshiva position in Kfar Chabad, but MMS shot rejected him as a candidate. Rav Gruzman ( a Gerer Hasid) in my time became the RY of Kfar Habad, and he was a member of the Beit Din Tsedek of Jerusalem. He was a genuinely humble man.

[lea]

"Non-hasidic haredi leader Rabbi Elazar Menachem Man Shach, who personally knew Schneerson and disliked him"

Shach new personally knew the rebbe?? this is news to me... i didn't hear that they ever met, or had any first-hand interactions...

[Alan - Mérida]

I concur with the comment by Outcast Yid | May 11, 2014 at 09:58 AM.

As for the tone of Shmaya's article, I realize you go for Texas chainsaw murder journalilsm. Perhaps many of your targets deserve that treatment. And R. Alan Brill dared not to do a Shmaya on R. Schnerson! Well, saw AB down to size, and while you are at it, throw some mud at him (Shmaya really knows why R. Brill is no longer with YU??).

I found the tone and content of R. Brill's informal review to be refreshing and informative. As have I found his series of articles on Hindu practice. But don't worry Shmaya, I read your column off and on and know how demented and evil you find Lubavitch, and maybe you have some grounds for so holding.

[Julian]

Are you folks aware you are arguing about how demented MMS was, especially since he used to "talk' to his late predecessor at a gravesite while totally ignoring the fact that the whole concept of Judaism is also based on the demented writings of a guy that talked with non-less than a burning bush. YOU FOLKS ARE TELLING ME YOU DON'T FIND ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT?????

[Fleishike Kishke]

He wasn't demented. He was insane.

[MM Schneerson]

An answer from the Rebbe for you in the igros.The letter, in volume 1, pages 26-27, said that "All Jews are arievim for one another. The Rebbe offers three interpretations for the word areivim:
a) sweet, i.e. every Jew must consider another Jew sweet;
b) intertwined, i.e.,every Jew is intertwined with another Jew
c) mutually responsible; every Jew is responsible for all other Jews....We are in the last phase of the exile , and Torah and teshuvah are the only means to alleviate the birth pangs of Mashiach.
The love which one Jew feels toward another Jew spurs the heart to great feelings of mercy for those who do not do teshuvah in the present time. http://www.igrot.com/

[Keepa Da Faith]

Inbreeding is a funny thing, if we look back at the original people that started our species- it seems that all of humanity is a product of an even closer case of inbreeding.. I guess that means all humans are nuts.
Inbreeding doesn't always create crazy people.
That I'm happy to say from watching what goes on here and the rest of the world is totally the responsibility of those that eat, breathe, think and act in crazy ways- in other words your own choice.
The hatred that pours from everyone of the emails pro and against is sickening. None of you are doing anything to right any wrongs here. Teaching and preaching and judging about who has morals , ethics, sanity, this is such waste of time. There are so people out there who need real help and writing about dead men that can not reply about what they said or did, is a waste of good time that would be better spent raising money to help sick children etc.
Be a good human being.
who cares what some rebbe or rabbi said or did? Its enough.
Move on, get on with your lives, live them the way you know they should be lived.

[M]

"... and gives Schneerson a free pass on the extreme messianism and cult of personality he created. Yes, fantasy can be comforting and enjoyable – but it never should be allowed to supplant truth."

The Rebbe is wrong and YOU are right, right? YOU know the truth and the Rebbe turned into a nothing by you. YOU are 1 shmuck!

[yosefmendel]

http://myencounterblog.com/?p=1935

“I can testify that the Rebbe knows everything there is to know in Torah. There is nothing that he doesn’t know.”
Rabbi Avraham Pinter has served as the principal of various yeshivas in the New York metropolitan area, including Mirrer Yeshiva, Yeshiva Chaim Berlin, Shaarei Torah, and Yeshiva Chofetz Chaim. He has also served as superintendent of the Midtown Manhattan school district. He was interviewed in his home in May of 2008.