Haredi Soldier Booted From Officer Training Course After He Refused To Train With Females

A haredi soldier who was an officer candidate was expelled from his officer training program after he refused to participate in training that included females.

 

Haredi Soldier Booted From Officer Training Course After He Refused To Train With Females
Shmarya Rosenberg • FailedMessiah.com

A haredi soldier who was an officer candidate was expelled from his officer training program after he refused to participate in training that included females, Yeshiva World reported based on a report on the Israeli news website Walla!

The 21-year-old resident of Jerusalem was thrown out by the base commander who reportedly accused the soldier of being “too extreme.”

“The army does not have room for officers who are extremists. An IDF officer is expected to be level-headed and moderate. The cadet cannot deny the beliefs of others and refuse to listen to them in the name of his own freedom of religion,” the base commander reportedly said.

For its part, the IDF Spokesman’s Office reportedly claimed the cadet was thrown out of the program due to his lack of discipline and his unusual behavior.

The IDF’s commander of ground forces also reportedly approved the base commander’s decision to oust the haredi the cadet from the officer training program.

Haredim insist the IDF promised that extreme haredi religious requirements would be met and believe that promise means that even if one solitary haredi soldier wants to enter an officer training course, that means that all female officers and trainers must be banned from teaching or participating in that course.

Unlike other Orthodox Jews, most haredim maintain extremely strict gender segregation. Some haredi 18-year-old males have never spoken to a woman who is not their immediate relative, and most have never been in a social or educational setting with members of the opposite sex they are not closely related to.

Comments

[CHAIM BABAD]

get rid of woman from the army and you will see a strong enlistment of religous boys.let's call a spade a spade ladies in the military is ridiculous.

[Allan]

Sorry Chaim Badad. Israel will NOT remove women from the army. They have every right to be there and the vast majority of the Jewish people are enormously PROUD of the brave women who serve in the IDF. Nor will Israel remove them for the workplace to make the black hatters happy.

The Torah mandates separation between men and women ONLY during prayer. Period. And even that is a rabbinical regulation. Today’s rabbis’ mania to separate the sexes in every sphere of life has nothing to do with actual Judaism and is nothing more than a power grab by a bunch of power hungry and sexually repressed old men.

The IDF is not an “army of God” run according to Torah regulations. Rabbis don’t issue orders there – Generals do. As for this soldier. Why was he only expelled? If he disobeyed orders he should have been immediately arrested. Is Israel now trying to run an army where soldiers can opt out of any orders with which they disagree and just go home?

[jancsibacsi]

I can understand him since many young man in the hareidi community are afraid of their own sexuality due to their upbringing,they are in actuality scared of them loosing self control when they intermingle with females they might find very sexualty attractive,in short they all their lifes are controled by their rebbes brain they dont have their own mind to control themselfs ,their rabbis destroyed them by brainwashing them so thoroughtly

[flatearth]

Chaim - Let's call a spade a spade, a lady in your bed is ridiculous. A young boy, that's a different matter.

[IsraelFAN]

@Allan

Once again you must be corrected. In most civilized countries soldiers in the Army are not forced to go against their religious beliefs. May the Israelis are different?

[Feminista]

"get rid of woman from the army and you will see a strong enlistment of religous [sic] boys" Why? Does the absence of women make the cowardly Haredim into brave soldiers? I very much doubt it. Here's the deal, Chaim. If you are in the army, you follow the army's regulations and learn to treat everyone with respect. I realize that respecting women and treating them as humans instead of baby factories and domestic slaves is a foreign concept for both Haredim and extremist Muslims, so my suggestion is that the Haredim leave Israel and form their own country. After all, as with extremist Muslims, Haredim are a separate religion since they refusing to honor their obligations to defend Israel.

[Question]

Stupidity. Everyone yells at chareidim to share the burden and join the army. When of them does, and even enlists in a voluntary and prestigious training program, you're not satisfied! Shame on the army. Maybe if you respected chareidi religious beliefs more, even if u disagree with them, they'd agree to serve more. Frei hypocrites.

[jancsibacsi]

Question--Hareidim are mentally ill youre one good example,you are a shote gamur.

[IsraelFAN]

This is such crap! Every country respects religious beliefs, why not Israel?

[Ari Gold]

@CHAIM BABAD

What is it about women you are afraid of?

[Sarek]

Chaim Babad, IsraelFAN, & Question: Is Israel such a huge country (in a peaceful region) that it can afford to exclude 50% of its citizens from its national defense?

[Allan]

@IsraelFAN
I repeat. The ONLY requirement for separation between men and women is during prayers. I have never had a haredi rabbi tell me that I am sinning because there are women in my workplace. They KNOW that this is 100% permissible according to the Torah – and you should know it too.

There is absolutely nothing in halacha that says people must work in gender segregated workplaces – whether civilian or military. If there was such as halacha then Jewish would be forbidden from working almost everywhere. We would all have to become kollel shnorers living off the charity of working Jews – and that IS clearly contrary to halacha.

The IDF is willing to make reasonable accommodations for religious soldiers (kosher food, adjustment of schedule on Shabbat and Yom Tov, etc.). However, asking for an all-male army is NOT a reasonable request. It is demanding a stringency far in excess of anything the Torah demands. It is also an insult to the Jewish women serving with distinction in the IDF – some having risen to the rank of general.

[IsraelFAN]

@Allan

Im not asking for a all-male army but I am asking for an all-male unit. And don't give me your inadequate and incompetent Rabbi as proof. Ask Steinman, Kanievsky, Auerbach, Feinstein, Miller (Toronto), or Hareidim like them. After all, a hareidi is not gonna ask the idiot who officiates in your shul, now will he?

[Allan]

@IsraelFAN -

An all male unit is NOT a reasonable request. For example, I’m a scientist working in building with many different laboratories. Are you saying that Shteinman, Kanievsky and Auerbach demand that all women be removed from my particular lab? That women are OK in the building but not on my particular research team? That my team must be “all male unit?” Is that what they demand of Jewish workers?

Do they also require male Jewish lawyers to tell judges that their own courtroom must be all male – no female judge, attorneys, defendants, jurors or spectators ? Women are OK in the building but one’s own courtroom must be an “all male unit?”

Come on IsraelFAN – I’m sure you can see how ridiculous the concept of “all male units” or “all female units” is in any real workplace. I Shteinman, Kanievsky, etc. truly paskened as you say then they have made it impossible for any Jew to embark on any career whatsoever. He would have to make impossible demands on his employers.

[S M L]

Haredim don't get to make the rules. It's that simple. Their rules are ever-changing and ever-more-strict and constitute a moving target. They live in a small country the size of New Jersey surrounded by enemies. Too bad about their 'beliefs'. National security transcends beliefs which are unreasonable. Allowing a Sikh to wear his turban is one level of accommodation; allowing a single Haredi soldier's presence to direct making an entire unit or program female-free is not a reasonable level of accommodation.

[ah-pee-chorus]

IsraelFAN-

Only theocracies make allowances for every religious demand made by fanatics. And Israel isnt a theocracy. Should the IDF accomodate a soldier who says wearing the uniform is against halacha? Or the mere participation in an army that allows women is forbidden, even if he never sees one? Orthat it's assur to take orders or even engage in conversation with a non-believer?
Religion at most should be accommodated when it's simple and reasonable. Halacha as defined by charedim is impossible to accommodate without destroying the army and everything the free and democratic country stands for.

[IsraelFAN]

@Allan

You cant compare working in the same building or even together in the same lab and training for combat together. I don't think you would find a responsible Halachik authority who would allow men to go to the gym with women. I would compare combat training to a gym more than comparing it to a casual work environment.

@SML and Ahpeechorus

You are very wrong regarding religious belief and national security. Forcing people to go against their religion doesn't happen in any democratic country anywhere. but of course Israel is not a real democracy. Conscription is frowned upon in most civilized countries in the world. The Israelis know that the great defenders of freedom that are the Israeli youths would never enlist voluntarily so they force people to serve....

[David]

+++get rid of woman from the army and you will see a strong enlistment of religous boys.let's call a spade a spade ladies in the military is ridiculous.

Posted by: CHAIM BABAD | May 07, 2014 at 10:55 AM+++

Chaim, you know very well that even in the absence of women Charedim would refuse to serve in the military, just like they ignore their other civil and Halachic obligations to work and educate their children.

Also, one of the many reasons Israel has women in the military is that you parasites refuse to pull your weight. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Heh, and check out this brave and beautiful woman in the IDF:

Israeli Air Force IAF Female F-15 Eagle Pilot: http://youtu.be/BUhz2Q3Wnuc

[Allan]

Let’s put our cards on the table here IsraelFAN. What you and your rabbis are really worried (and also very JEALOUS) about is that yeshiva bochrim in the military will be having sex with some of the gorgeous young female IDF soldiers (see David’s post above). Good! They deserve it for putting their life on the line for the State of Israel.

Let them enjoy their youth for the first time in their lives, instead of wasting it in your rebbes’ endless BORING gemara classes. You know very well that, having tasted freedom, most bochrim will never return to yeshiva slavery – and that is what scares their rabbis to death.

[Jeff]

"What you and your rabbis are really worried (and also very JEALOUS) about is that yeshiva bochrim in the military will be having sex with some of the gorgeous young female IDF soldiers (see David’s post above). Good! They deserve it for putting their life on the line for the State of Israel."

Oh, chos v'sholem! That could lead to mixed dancing!

[Michael-Meir]

"Forcing people to go against their religion doesn't happen in any democratic country anywhere.... Conscription is frowned upon in most civilized countries in the world."

Oh no? My father was conscripted into the US Army during WWII. He served willingly. He did not demand kosher food or Shabbat off ... because there was a fucking WAR going on, and he was a true American. He did, however, intentionally violate a minor regulation by wearing a small mezuzah on his dogtag chain to show he was a Jew.

[Question]

Lol first you claim chareidim should serve cause it doesn't break halacha, but then you reveal your real agenda by saying they should all sorts of aveiros and behave like animals. You cant even keep your logic straight. And jancisbasci, the guy who called me mentally ill, cant even spell or use correct grammar. Wow.

[David]

+++Lol first you claim chareidim should serve cause it doesn't break halacha, but then you reveal your real agenda by saying they should all sorts of aveiros and behave like animals.

Posted by: Question | May 08, 2014 at 09:26 AM+++

Question: No Halacha is broken by the Charedim serving in the IDF, even with women, indeed, it is their Halachic and civil obligation to do so.

And they don't have to do any averos or behave like animals. Surely these holy people can behave the right way.

And frankly, if they could behave like animals, even pigs, it would be a huge improvement in their present behavior.

[raina]

shmyra, YOU SELF hating JEW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! keep spreading more lashon hara against an IDF!! you really are deranged!! the world hates you enough , so give more amunition you IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU enjoy putting downjews, so i dont care you are gay, but you mock outrage about females is getting old. get a hobby that counts, and LEAVE us alone, we HAVE enough enemies, you included