A Haredi-Dominated School Board That Overlooks Its Obligation To Students

It’s not enough for state leaders to occasionally censure the school board. There’s a deeper obligation to the students. “It’s like the education laws don’t apply here,” that principal says. “We need state leaders to come here and lead.”

A protest at an East Ramapo Central School District board meeting last year

The New York Times Michael Powell paid a visit to Ramapo to hear firsthand what is happening to East Ramapo public schools, which are under the control of a haredi-dominated school board that many allege has looted the district while, at the same time, the haredi voting bloc (and it is a bloc) that elected them has blocked the tax increases necessary to fund public schools at an acceptable level.

Powell met with a local school principal who listed the damage that has been done to her school by this intolerable situation:

She has lost assistant principals, social workers, art teachers. Bilingual classes? Please. If she is lucky, she can find a Creole speaker for Haitian students.

Kindergarten class size has jumped to 28 children from 20. Fourth-grade classes hover at 32 children. Sky’s the limit in high school.

Middle school athletics? Cut. East Ramapo’s award-winning band leader? Laid off. And state mandates for bilingual and special education?

She tries to disguise her incredulity. “We’re not even close to the state-mandated services,” she says. “I feel like I’m watching a disaster descend on our children.”…

It’s not enough for state leaders to occasionally censure the school board. There’s a deeper obligation to the students.

“It’s like the education laws don’t apply here,” that principal says. “We need state leaders to come here and lead.”

Comments

[Alter Kocker]

The Haredim get their way. The non jewish people of Ramapo will sell their homes and leave. Ramapo will be a cesspool.

[yehudis]

I'm glad to see the NY Times get involved.
The newspaper is read by people around the world. Maybe our Governor will read it too. I am glad the principal spoke out.
She points out the problems that are happening inside the school. We all know all the shady things that the school board has done of late. (selling schools cheap, getting false assessments, hiring their $650 per hr. Washington DC atty.,keeping their atty 10 months after they said they would be parting ways, sending children out of the county even after they were told by the State not to, etc.) I've heard their plan is to drive people out therefore reducing home prices.

[rocky]

The NY Times is at least a year late covering this story. As far as I know, it has never covered the inadequate secular education being received by youngsters in many Haredi schools in Brooklyn and other Haredi areas in the NY area. Is the paper afraid to get its hands dirty, or is it afraid of being accused of being too Jewish or even anti-semitic?

[RWisler]

"A light unto the nations".

[Alexander Hamilton]

Once again, why is this a jewish issue? What would happen if 80% of the district was Catholic and sent to private schools, would the story be different? This is a simple question: Is the district providing the minimum required or not? If not then the state should force them to, if they are than they are doing the absolute right thing by cutting services to the bare minimum. That is the will of the people of East Ramapo and it should be done! Why does the board owe any more to the people than the State forces them to?

[Alexander Hamilton]

And the story is absurd on its face! Oh, they canceled athletics. So what?? Oh, they fired the music teacher, boohoo! if parents want their children to have athletics, let them pay for it! Why does the community have to pay for it??? Why??? Because they're Jewish? Bullshit!!!

[js36]

I'm sure that the Chareidim are pulling some shenanigans and taking some money illegally from the school district. But for the most part, the orthodox jews have 1000s of kids that are attending Jewish schools and paying full tuition while paying relatively high property taxes that go mostly to public schools so they get very little in return for their high taxes. Why should these public schools be struggling so badly in a situation like this. I believe there is fault on both sides and the public school system wastes a lot of money and does not run their schools efficiently.

[yehudis]

Why did the community have to pay $400,000 for one student from New Square to go to school in New Hampshire? Why does the community have to pay $650 per hour for a Washington DC law firm + travel costs? Why does the community have to pay $70,000+ per student to send over 70 kids out of the county to school? Why does the community have to pay $125 per hour for an attorney to travel from Long Island? Why? Yes Alex they are taking from the public school kids to pay for all this. There are kids that get into colleges with athletic and music scholarships. In your "world" music, art and sports may not mean anything but in the real world it means a lot.

[Ya'akov]

This is certainly no rigorous proof but I find it very reasonable that, given all the evidence of fraud and misuse of state funds by the orthodox civil leadership, the orthodox-dominated school board here is doing precisely the same thing.

The weight of the evidence seems substantial, but what can be found factually, and what is heard anecdotally, that there is chicanery afoot in Ramapo; and the avowed principles of orthodoxy which permit and even demand maximum use of state funds are the excuse for the fraud.

There's no point in pretending that these people don't believe Jews are more important than non-Jews, they do. Given that, why should this behavior be a surprise? The benefit of the doubt, in this case, should fall to the accusers not the accused because we know who is being accused.

[Alexander Hamilton]

@Yehudis

Once again I ask, why do I as a community resident have to pay for music and art? I understand that its important to some people and I fully respect that, but that doesn't mean that the community needs to pay for it!

Regarding your point about expenditures, every single district in the state spends hundreds of thousands of dollars on single children. For example, if the child is Down Syndrome, AND has medical issues, AND needs additional supports, than the distrct is required to provide it for them. If the district does not have the capacity to place them in county or in State, the child is placed in out-of-state facilities. This is regular procedure and is done for all children in need statewide. I have not seen any allegations that the district did not do so for public school children in need. Did you?

Regarding the lawyer, the district hires the best lawyers available. It is standard practice to pay for travel expenses, and the distrct is doing nothing wrong here. And remember, who is driving those costs? Who is suing the district in frivolous and meaningless lawsuits?

[Alexander Hamilton]

@Yaakov

I don't have to address your idiotic preamble, do I?

Regarding the maximization of funds, yes the Hareidim make sure to take the maximum that is available to them. That is their right and is made available for expressly that purpose! The State wants to support the poor, well guess what, the Hasidim are poor! they need State support and they take it when given. Nothing wrong with that! Take what is given, and try to build yourself a better life. Don't go hungry and cold. Take your heating allowance and your food stamps. Take your Medicaid and stay healthy. Keep voting and be involved in the local democratic processes. Elect people that will represent you in public office, and support those people to the end!!!

[bendinai]

Alexander, you are eloquent but either a pure constitutionalist or dishonest.

"Why does the board owe any more to the people than the State forces them to? "

So allow me to ask you, even though I like to not engage in hypothesis; If the State does force them to do more, what will you say then?

[bendinai]

And to all of you who comment along the lines of, this is how the people voted; you lack an understanding of how our government was set up to function and protect individuals from the threat of tyranny exercised by a voting majority. In any event, what this shows is that the Hareidim care more about their money than the non-Hareidim care about their children. The Hareidim are not in the majority; they are simply in the majority of voters.

[Alexander Hamilton]

@Bendinai

To address your first point, if State law requires them to do more than of course they should do more. The law needs to be followed exactly but no more. Anything beyond the law should not be squeezed out of the community by public media pressure!!!

Regarding your second point, I think its you who lacks an understanding of the government process. The only block on majority rule is the "constitution". Otherwise the majority is free to do as they please even though its hurts or bothers the minority. That is "democracy".

Now in the State of NY, there is also majority rule. The majority decided that each school district is required to provide a minimum level of education to all, based on federal law. As long as this law stands, the minority has absolutely no rights to anything more. If the people of East Ramapo want more from their school board, they have 2 choices:

1. win the election; or
2. lobby the State to change the law

Until then, the current board is doing exactly what the people of East Ramapo want and they should continue unabated! I'm sorry, but thats the harsh facts of life! I don't agree with Obama all the time but I respect the fact that the majority of the US does agree with him and therefore I pay higher taxes and buy health insurance for my employees. I'm not happy but I understand that Majority tyranny is what democracy is, and I go along with it. I can always move to Russia if I want something different:)

[Ya'akov]

Alexander Hamilton:

No, it is not the maximum as permitted by honest dealing but the maximum that they can finagle and coerce from the system they consider there simply for themselves.

They aren't interested in a social partnership, they act parasitically. This is the problem demonstrated over and over. They act within the law, at the boundaries of the law in abusive if technically legal ways, and even in illegal ways for which they are sometime prosecuted and punished.

They act unethically, and take resources from others that they would not qualify for if they were honest. Large numbers of adults are unproductive and seek support from the commonweal. If the orthodox community wants to support special schools, that's their business but it is not a project that should be funded by the state. Full stop.

[bendinai]

@ AH....Yes and no. To quote Thomas Jefferson; “All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will, to be rightful, must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal laws must protect, and to violate which would be oppression.” It is certainly not as clear cut as you try and make it seem, which does make me question your intellectual honesty (though not your intellect. Perhaps you are an attorney or blogger hired by the "block." In that case their money is being well spent.) Also, your quip, "Anything beyond the law should not be squeezed out of the community by public media pressure!!!" truly makes me wonder about your motivation.

[Alexander Hamilton]

@Yaakov

Everything you said here was said by the racist republican party about African Americans... Literally every word...

Let me ask you again, is a poor person a parasite because he takes what is given? These people are poor, no question. Kollel people make between $400-800 per MONTH!!! they have large families. Why are they parasites? because they want to eat and live? because they want to be able to survive? you have a seriously messed up view of the poor! Have some compassion, most of us do. that's why we elect a government that will do more for the poor. that's why the Democratic party will continue to lead this country in the future while the republicans fade away! Because we do not label the poor parasites, and we understand that in every society there are less fortunate people and we need to help them...

And, once again I reiterate, the law has boundaries precisely so we can operate within them. Within those boundaries I want every poor person to claim every cent they are entitled to! Yes I stand on the side of the poor!!!

[bendinai]

@ Ya'akov....fairly well said and mostly accurate.

[Ya'akov]

Alexander Hamilton:

You seem to be missing the allegations of malfeasance being made. The board is *not* doing what the people want, they are favoring a special group (Jews) and spending money on special projects not in the common interest of the community.

That's precisely the problem. They are abusing the democratic system to do top down what they also do bottom up even when they aren't "in power". It just makes them much more effective when they are both the wolf *and* the shepherd.

[Alexander Hamilton]

@Bendinai

I'm sorry but your Thomas Jefferson quote is misplaced here. Thomas Jefferson was working to establish laws to limit the majority by expanding the constitution. Of course bodies elected by the majority can decide to limit their own rights to rule. That's exactly what the constitution is, a decision by the majority to limit their own authority. However, until a constitution is established, unfettered majority rule is in effect. The father of democracy certainly did not question that fact!

[Ya'akov]

Alexander Hamilton;

Your characterization of my comments is rhetorically powerful but completely false. My own words stand in opposition to your claim. I don't care which religion, or what skin color, or what ethnic background a person is when it comes to getting social welfare.

I do care when they commit fraud. The context of this discussion is abuse of the social welfare system by a group of which I am a member, and so have special interest in.

ANYONE, white, black, Jew, Muslim, or any other group; who does what the orthodox Jews of Ramapo (as a group) are doing needs to be called on it. It is best to be heard from members of their own group because it short-circuits accusations of racism (though self-hating Jew and Uncle Tom are the internal cries).

You claim these Jew are "poor", are they? They live in decent houses, drive decent cars, don't go hungry. People with the same income and lower are suffering because special treatment is afforded to them. The don't have "incomes" on paper, that's the scam. This is the system they've worked out.

They hide the money they get from sources other than the state in such a way it can't be counted in deciding benefits. Sometimes legally, often illegally.

And, I repeat, they say it is OK, even laudable to do.

I really don't see any point in continuing because you aren't addressing my points, and you don't really seem to be debating me at all, rather a straw man.

I'm done. You have the last word if you'd like.

[Alexander Hamilton]

BTW As a confirmed Hamiltonian I should not be praising Thomas Jefferson...:)

[ah-pee-chorus]

+++ Kollel people make between $400-800 per MONTH!!! they have large families. Why are they parasites?+++

Posted by: Alexander Hamilton

like this kollel family?

"One of those three kollel families reported an annual income of $22,499 in 2013. But that same kollel family received $32,073 in child care subsidies, plus $29,742 in Medicaid and $7,908 in Food Stamps, that year, as well – a total of $92,222. This family has four children."

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2014/04/rockland-county-haredi-yeshiva-students-get-free-childcare-at-government-expense-678.html

There are millions of actual WORKING families who don't make that much. stop the BS about $400-800 a month. 90% of their income and living expenses comes directly from parasitizing.

[Alexander Hamilton]

@Yaakov

The allegation are just that "allegations", made by people who are understandably upset. But guess what, this dispute is years old and no one found anything significant. SED has disputes "daily" with all School districts in the State including the high and mighty NYC DOE. A dispute doesn't mean that the State is right. In fact, the State is frequently wrong! Placements are frequently disputed and decided by a judge. Absolutely no "allegations" were ever proven or even taken seriously! The Hasidim are doing it right, surprise, surprise!!

[Alexander Hamilton]

Oh, and the "facts" you just spewed about fraudulent claiming of benefits, can you give me ANY supporting information on that? Of course not! that's what I thought. Ignorant crap...

[Alexander Hamilton]

@Ah Pee chorus

that article that you quoted is so wrong I cant stand being quiet!! Benefits are assessed by income! Benefits are not income! Were you seriously born yesterday? When a poor person makes 800 per month in income and 1k in food stamps, did their income jump to 1800 per month? Of course not!!! Does this make sense to you? Poor people receive what they need to survive and a family of 6 with 22k in income is dirt poor!!!

[ah-pee-chorus]

@ Alexander Hamilton | -

who said benefits are income and what difference does it make? If you don't process that an able-bodied kollel father who CHOOSES not to work and then gets 90% of his living expenses paid for by taxpayers is a parasite then we're speaking different languages.

[bendinai]

@ AH....again, intellectual (and probably more so than I am) but intellectually dishonest.

"But guess what, this dispute is years old and no one found anything significant."

Have you considered that no one found anything significant because such findings, 1- take time, and 2 - take an enormous commitment of those who care enough to do the work? Also, as a parallel, every time a judge found the Kiryas Joel School District to be in violation of State Law, Silver and his crew simply went and re-wrote the law....and not just once, but numerous times.

But then again, there is no proving you wrong, as evidenced by the following quote: "A dispute doesn't mean that the State is right." So in other words, the voting majority can be wrong, the voting minority can be wrong, the State can be wrong, judges of course can be wrong, and the only correct opinion is yours.

[ah-pee-chorus]

@ Alexander Hamilton | -

you need supporting data regarding the massive fraud in charedi communities?

"Estimated median household income in 2011: $23,560 (it was $12,162 in 2000)
New Square: $23,560
New York: $55,246

Estimated median house or condo value in 2011: $499,753 (it was $232,800 in 2000)
New Square: $499,753
New York: $285,300
Mean prices in 2011: All housing units: $452,770; Detached houses: $370,773; In 2-unit structures: $588,533; In 3-to-4-unit structures: $575,851; In 5-or-more-unit structures: $351,368"

So NS people supposedly earn less than half the median household income for new yorkers while having way more kids. Yet amazingly the avg. house goes for far more than the NY median. SOMETHING DOESN"T ADD UP.
And it's obvious what that is. Many work off the books and get benefits theyre not entitled to.
NS and KJ are in the top 5 poorest towns in THE COUNTRY . Yet unlike the other towns where houses are worth less than $100k, NS are worth 4 times that.

[bendinai]

@ ah-pee-chorus....although I generally think you are an a-hole, I will point out when you are correct, and your last posting to Alexander is correct. Piece of advice.....don't waste your time with him. He is clearly being paid by someone to do this, and my suspicion is he is none other than Yossi Gestetner, or someone associated professionally with him....an apologist for everything that is hurting the Jewish people, and who himself will eventually end up in prison.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Now that Bendinai wants to see me in prison I guess I better shut up...

@Ah-pee-chorus

your comparison of housing prices is flawed because of one very simple fact. Unlike most communities, in Hasidic areas the rich and the poor live together. You can have a billionaire live next to a kollel person. While I was grossing 32k per year, I lived between a plastic factory millionaire and a nursing home multi-millionaire. On my block houses were worth around 1.2 million while I was struggling to pay the rent!! In other poor communities the poor live isolated and rich people are not buying in the area... Obviously, living in small areas as Hasidim do, prices are always artificially inflated because of the rich few...

[bendinai]

@ ah-pee and Alex.....and there you have it. An explanation that for anyone else would have the IRS banging down the doors. "How do you afford your lifestyle?" One thing I know personally, they utilize Food Stamps as currency. The rebbes are paid in them, the stores accept them, as do the Heimishe manufacturers, such as Ahava Dairy did when they existed.

Alex, I don't want to see you in prison, but Yossi Gestetner will end up there one day.

[jancsibacsi]

Alexander Hamilton--You are a moron those kolel guys are poor because they keep having children when clearly they cannot afford them whom are you trying to fool,you think people cannot think at all they are poor by choice if you cannot afford 2 children why do they have 8 or 10 you think very highly of youreself and nothing of others you are very indiffenrent to tohers suffering you selfish mamzer.

[Devorah]

Yossi Gestetner or his ghost writer is very busy here today. (Too late for damage control.)

[Alexander Hamilton]

jancsibacsi

Oh, so now you are telling people how many children they are allowed to have?? Nice!

And BTW Fuck you too!

[bendinai]

@ jancsibacs....no, Alexander Hamilton is no moron....a moral fool, but absolutely not a moron. The only difference between the two of you is, you clearly have your hell in this life, he will have to wait for the next. Advice.....do not make shidduchim with him; he is morally inferior.

[soso]

"if they are than they are doing the absolute right thing by cutting services to the bare minimum. That is the will of the people of East Ramapo and it should be done! Why does the board owe any more to the people than the State forces them to?"

I do not think it is wise, nor a decent thing to do.

As a closed group of people who appear culturally different than the rest of East Ramapo, you go to the school board and cut services in a school your children do not attend.

What will the opinion of the general population in East Ramapo be about this closed group?

In your language, this is called a chilul hashem. It makes people think "which wicked g-d inspired those people to cut services in our public school?". In more general terms, this kind of behavior provokes antisemitism.

[ah-pee-chorus]

: Alexander Hamilton -

it seems you don't know what the word "median" means. The median is little affected by outliers. Fully half the houses are worth more and half less. So your whole anecdote means nothing. And it provides no defense whatsoever.
Also, regardless of why houses are worth what they are, the median income doesn't come close to being able to carry just the mortgage and taxes. Yet somehow the residents are able to pay it, food for 6-12 kids, yeshiva bills, clothes, cars, insurance, and many other expenses of a large family. It's IMPOSSIBLE unless their REAL income is much higher but most people work off the books so the REPORTED income is low.

bendiani- the feeling is mutual :)
He's far too well spoken to be gestetner.

[bendinai]

@ soso.....yup

[Pearl of Wisdom]

Alexander Hamilton....I think you should see a doctor. Seems you are losing your mental faculties. The derelict BOE is NOT PROVIDING MANDATED ART AND MUSIC. The state should step in but they are afraid of losing the bloc votes. Shame on Cuomo and the Board.

The appraiser for selling Hillcrest pled guilty to fraud and admits taking a bribe. I think that rises to criminal. The AG is investigating the Board's dealings. Last week, the same derelict board voted to settle with the Yeshivas trying to buy Colton. The judge already decided that the millions in rent credits the Yeshivas wanted were not warranted. But, the BOE decides to gift millions in rent credits anyway....yeah, that is Kosher..NOT!

Stop with your bullshit....and fuck you too!

[dh]

That's not Yossi. Yossi can't speak or write English. It's the Yossi Posse, spinning a tale.

[FlatEarth]

Alexander Hamilton, you don't really know me but I'm one of those stupid sub-human Goy who foolishly work like the animals we are and, via NY State's most fair and equitable tax and welfare system, pay for the medicaid, food stamps and welfare that you and your incredibly procreative kind so richly deserve. We only wish we could spend all our time in religious study but what can you do? Someone has to work.
Anyway - I am sure you wish to offer all of us a sincere thanks for all we do because we do it for you.

[Devorah]

Maybe Yossi is learning to read and write English by hanging out with us here! There hasn't been a pedophile since last week in Ramapo he could defend, nor any house burnings in New Square for dissidents, nor any Rabbonim he could commend for beating a kid in yeshiva. Yossi, you are learning from the best on this site!

[FlatEarth]

"The appraiser for selling Hillcrest pled guilty to fraud and admits taking a bribe. I think that rises to criminal."

Isn't also illegal to offer the bribe? Where's the prosecution?

[David]

Please don't refer to charedi indoctrination centers as "schools"....

[Pearl of Wisdom]

Flat Earth...yes it is illegal to give a bribe. That Appraiser is singing like a Canary. However, it is up to the AG to prosecute. It is an election year. Schneiderman sent out Yiddish campaign literature when he ran 4 years ago throughout carefully selected Orthodox neighborhoods in Ramapo. The Yiddish translation roughly said he would protect Jewish rights. Let's see if he protects the rights of the ERCSD students and taxpayers? Should be a very, very interesting election cycle.