More Proof Of The Value Of The Haredi Educational System

Rockland Kosher in Monsey again proves that haredim do 'just fine' without receiving any credible secular education (or, often, any secular education of any type at all).

 

 

[Hat Tip: Raphael Ziegler.]

Comments

[Moshe in Israel]

As much as I agree in theory about the lack of secular education for the Charedim, this could have been one of the Puerto Rican workers. Without knowing for certain who did this, this example proves nothing, other than shotty oversight.

[Shmarya Rosenberg]

Please.

It proves far more than you are willing to admit.

[Nachum Lamm]

Moshe- "shotty"? QED.

[Franklin Clinton]

It goes together with all these Italian recepies...

https://www.google.com/search?q=recepies#q=%22italian+recepies%22&safe=off

[Franklin Clinton]

If you want to ridicule Charedim you should ridicule them for buying cold spaghetti and then warming it up, In my own eyes I saw some Haredim put ketchup on pasta!

Which reminds me Henry Hill’s immortal words…

"..I ordered some spaghetti with marinara sauce, and I got egg noodles and ketchup..."

[jancsibacsi]

Oy yes they are educated,their education is composed of narishkeit and how to fool the government.

[bendinai]

@ Moshe.....AND you have no sense of geography to boot! In your mind everyone from South and Central America is Puerto Rican (did someone grow up in Brooklyn in the 1970s?) You could not find a Puerto Rican in Monsey. These Latinos are El Salvadorian, Ecuadorian and Guatemalan. (Just so you know, those place are south of KJ and east of Eretz Yisroel.)

[Yochanan Lavie]

Eye gott a gut edjukayshun in the chareidi sistem. Whye doo yu hight the toyreh yidden soo moch? Dis ist nicht gut.

[Sarek]

No side of glot kowshir mit bals?

[singlemalt]

@NL: Good catch!

[Robert J. Barron, Attorney-at-Law]

Ummm....I hate to rain on the comedic parade here, but this is not funny. When we all stop laughing, we have to realize that this is heartbreaking.

These are our brothers and sisters, who are being condemned to a life of ignorance and poverty. That isn't funny; that's tragic.

[Chaim Z]

Rockland Kosher: misspells spaghetti on packages sold in a thriving, profitable business.

FM + Commenters: kvetch in a basement somewhere.

Failure to educate themselves is a terrible mistake but this is not a good example of why.

[Audrey T Benjamin]

"These are our brothers and sisters, who are being condemned to a life of ignorance and poverty. That isn't funny; that's tragic."
I don't know, I still think it's pretty funny.

[Allan]

It looks like they imagined it rhymes with “Tatty.” So embarrassing. Aren't Jews supposed to the people who revere education?

On the other hand, the decline of spelling and literacy in the texting age is universal. If I had a nickel for every time I've seen the name of the Jewish state misspelled as "Isreal", I'd be a rich man.

[FlatEarth]

Maybe if you tasted the stuff you wouldn't call it spaghetti either.

[JekyllJacobson]

Gimme a break.
I shop in midwestern supermarkets all the time and I've come across store-packaged goods riddled with mangled English wording on more than one occasion.
Ziegler (hat tip...), you're a shmuck!

[Carlos Danger]

For some reason, Orthodox Jewish chefs make terrible spaghetti. They serve it clumped up and thick like globs of cardboard. And no clue how to make a good sauce. I say leave the Italian dishes to the Italians, who know how to make an excellent pasta dish. Did you ever go to a Jewish wedding where they make a big deal out of a basket of "garlic rolls" which are hard extremely oily bread cubes? Horrible, yet prized by yeshiva bochurs as tasty high end cuisine.

[JekyllJacobson]

Hey Carlos
I like my spaghetti all globbed up. I developed a taste for it. Don't like it? don't eat it.

[JekyllJacobson]

And one more thing
Al dente does not mean: "melt in your mouth" (just as sure as it doesn't mean: "stick to your teeth").

[Reese]

Looks about as tasty as the burnt chulent they rush and push to get at a kiddush.

[Gevezener Chusid]

I had matzo a few years ago that had the label as follows:

ראַזעװע
HOLE WHEAT

[Allan]

@Carlos – “Italian food” ,“kosher Chinese food” or kosher any food’ is a very very distant relative to the real thing. Any resemblance is purely coincidental. As you can see, they can barely spell the names of these dishes, let alone prepare them properly, and are forbidden from using the ingredients that would actually make them taste the way they’re supposed to.

I fondly remember the day I gave up kashrus as one of the happiest days of my life – it was like my taste buds suddenly came back to life. I would NEVER go back.

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

SPGATTY == Special Govt. Attorney.

Works for me.

[jimmyInBkln]

Ironic that someone like Janci with. his pidgin English and spelling errors. has what to say

[rebitzman - $101 to read my posts]

" shop in midwestern supermarkets all the time and I've come across store-packaged goods riddled with mangled English wording"

Care to provide a single......provable example?

[Jeff]

"Ironic that someone like Janci with. his pidgin English and spelling errors. has what to say"

Jansci is first-generation. How many generations has your family been here? Yet you're still using the expression "what to say". I bet you "eat by" people when you have dinner at their homes, don't you?

[jancsibacsi]

jimmyInBkln--I have something else to say to you, kish mir in toches:)

[WoolSilkCotton; I must be seen to be believed]

The reason kosher efforts to make Italian (or other ethnic) food ends up tasting like crap is because the frumma eateries who prepare these foods know that they have a captive audience who don't know the difference and will never find out.

Pork, or mixing dairy and meat, are only a small part of the difference.
Cholev Yisroel cheeses are overpriced drek, and so the frumma will never know good mozzarella or Parmesan cheese.

A good restaurant uses fresh ingredients, no microwaving, no frozen foods thawed while you wait, proper seasoning, and a clean kitchen. Good luck finding a restaurant in a frum neighborhood that does any of that.

[WoolSilkCotton; I must be seen to be believed]

Jansci, you are awesome.

There is an old saying in the Irish Gaelic language which translates to "better to speak the truth in poor Gaelic than to tell lies in the King's English".

[Account Deleted]

@ MOSHEINiSRAEL..."As much as I agree in theory about the lack of secular education for the Charedim, this could have been one of the Puerto Rican workers."

Wrong, the Puertorican wrokers who do not know english would have wrote espageti. Trust me, I know a lot of people from Puerto Rico.

[Robert J. Barron, Attorney-at-Law]

@Jeff----> Once again, priceless.

@Jansci ----> I could not have said it better myself.

@WoolSilkCotton ----> A direct hit, as usual.

But at the risk of repeating myself, folks, this is not funny. It's not funny that our brothers and sisters are growing up with this kind of enforced (and embraced) ignorance.

I think I commented on here back in Mid/Late December that I had just buried my father.

He didn't have the chance to go to college, b/c his father didn't see the value of an education. Soooo....my father did two things after he reached adulthood.

1. He became an autodidact. He bought a lot of books, read them, and was always reading the newspaper. He knew what was going on in the world, and although he and I did not always agree on politics and world affairs, he always had a well-reasoned and well-thought out opinion.

2. He demanded that my two brothers and I go to college. He didn't concern himself with what we studied - that was our business- but in terms of us going to college, the matter was simply not up for discussion. We were going- period.

He, more than anyone else, showed me how we have always been regarded as "The people of the Book". We have always prized learning- yes, it's necessary in this day and age in order to make a living- but there is also the growth that comes from learning itself.

So now, in the year 2014, our brothers and sisters are embracing (and virtually celebrating) ignorance. This isn't funny. It's heartbreaking.

[dh]

That was lovely, Robert, what you said about your father. But some people do have a lust to learn and they go out and somehow do it, whether it is a computer in the closet or something more bold. That is in all cultures and in all cultures there is heartbreak over it. I no more think of them as my brothers and sisters than I do the Jews that are, or should be, in another kind of prison. You got there. Now get out.

[jimmyInBkln]

"Jansci is first-generation. "

Jeff, quit being an apologist for an oaf.This illiterate fellow went to high school in America and has lived here for 50 years.
Since the post here was about a gross spelling mistake I pointed out the irony of a fellow boor having the chutzpa to criticize.

[Franklin Clinton]

"Wrong, the Puertorican wrokers who do not know english would have wrote espageti. Trust me, I know a lot of people from Puerto Rico."

Very good point ! and it applies to the all Latino workers.

[Jeff]

"Jeff, quit being an apologist for an oaf.This illiterate fellow went to high school in America and has lived here for 50 years."

He isn't illiterate. He grew up in another country and English is his second language.

Although, I suppose that describes most Haredim as well. Brooklyn is another country, and English is certainly their second language.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Jeff; I have heard from Jews who grew up in secular-yiddishist households. They tell me that chassidim/chareidim speak lousy Yiddish as well. They don't read the great works of Sholom Aleichem, the Singer brothers, or Peretz.

[Jeff]

Yes, even my nephew makes that observation about Chabad. He teaches in one of their schools, and he's told me they teach both Yiddish and English poorly, that he wishes they'd choose one and teach it properly. It's the only thing even remotely resembling a criticism of Chabad I've ever heard him make. (Of course, he cares nothing for secular literature, in any language.)

Aaron Lanksy of the National Yiddish Book Center, in his book "Outwitting History", tells the story of going to a yeshiva or kollel way out in Brooklyn years ago to rescue a large lot of books of Yiddish secular literature. It was in an old, defunct Jewish Community Center that had been taken over by a radical Haredi group. They'd taken all the old books and thrown them down the stairs into the basement. As Aaron and his friends were wading through the piles, stacking them up preparatory to hauling them away, the rosh yeshiva stood at the top of the stairs, shouting at them and calling them apikorsim.

To me, this image represents the process of the old Yiddish culture, immersed in the humanities (and yes, socialism), a culture that fostered a life of the mind and a sense of involvement in the world at large, being replaced by religious fanaticism, authoritarianism and anti-intellectualism.

It makes me sadder than I can say.

[Yochanan Lavie]

I wish Typepad had a "like" button. Jeff, that's big "Like."

[Jeff]

Thank you.

I recommend the book very highly, btw. It chronicles the falling away of that culture as its members disappeared, but there are some encouraging stories as well. There's one in which Aaron and his co-workers were having lunch in a deli - it must have been on the Lower East Side - and they met a group of older people, Yiddish-speakers who were delighted to learn there were young people interested in preserving the language and its literature.

There's another one in which Aaron picks up Arlo Guthrie's mom in Manhattan (I think she lived at the Dakota), whose parents came from that culture, and together they go in his truck out to Brooklyn to visit old friends of her parents and collect some of their books.

But although Aaron and the Yiddish Book Center managed to rescue the literature (and it's a great resource and has wonderful programs: http://www.yiddishbookcenter.org/ ), that world is gone - and we can see on a daily basis what replaced it. If I have any sense of nostalgia at all for those days, it involves the old Yiddishist culture, not the shtetl.

[Allan]

The rich intellectual and literary heritage of Yiddish is completely irrelevant to the Chassidim. It’s more a “protection mechanism” against the influence of the dominant secular American English speaking culture – especially in early childhood.

Children are raised to speak Yiddish as their first language in their formative years to prevent any possible “goyishe” cultural influences from penetrating their young minds.

The language barrier ensures that they can only understand their parents, siblings, rebbes and other “kosher” Jews. Only later is it deemed safe for them to pick up some English – by which time they will be hopelessly behind the normal American educational standard for spelling, reading, writing, grammar etc. for children their age. But what do they care about those “goyishe” educational standards ?

[Jeff]

Yes, good point, Allan.

[R Nash]

The non-education is a defense mechinism itself, to keep young people working for "the system" institutions. If they don't pay on time, what are you going to do, get a real job? So more independent and disillusioned young people embark on a simple business, like real estate. Learn to read well enough to get licensed, and you are in. Then, they learn that they are all so much smarter than goyim, and you can make lots of money just flipping buildings, using straw buyers, renting them as slums and ignoring the tenants until you can run the scam again, and asserting their value by flashing a pile of money and silencing their critics in the Jewish world. then they can employ all the sheep that graduate from yeshivas and have to do whatever they say.

Single point of education = pravda. Unemployable = unionization.
Daas Torah = Soviet.

The main thing is that the people hear and believe only the "facts" that the leadership presents.

[jimmyInBkln]

Jeff,
You continue to defend Janc , yet did not even read my point.
For whatever reason a fellow who has lived and gone to school here for so many years and still cannot write a sentence in anything but poor Pidgin English, (which usually makes no sense anyway)STILL, to criticize others for the same exact fault and maybe same reason, is to an extreme fool and ass.An oaf in other words.

[Robert J. Barron, Attorney-at-Law]

@Jeff----> To me, this image represents the process of the old Yiddish culture, immersed in the humanities (and yes, socialism), a culture that fostered a life of the mind and a sense of involvement in the world at large, being replaced by religious fanaticism, authoritarianism and anti-intellectualism.

Jeff, as usual, brilliantly stated. And, as a lawyer, I feel compelled to point out that (I'm pretty sure) that is the environment in which Elena Kagan was raised- I'm pretty sure her parents were fairly left-leaning- and look where she is now.

To me, she is the supreme (no pun intended) example of what can happen when a Jewish woman gets an education.

Nine Supreme Court Justices. Three of them Jewish. Two of the three are women.

Food for thought.

[jancsibacsi]

jimmyInBkln--You are truly mentally disturbed, do you also criticize seymours?my english is pidgin only to you and not others,for some reason you just cannot stop youreself from commenting on how terrible my english and spelling is,you are truly a hatefull person beyond the pale,as i wrote english is my 5th language so what if i mispell some words to you its the end of the world,as i wrote before,kish mir in toches you degenerate.

[HavaMina]

Its stupid and "ignert," but with some slick marketing and product placement Spgatty could be turned into a distinctive brand. Y'all aint a word, either, but you can still use it to death.