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February 17, 2014

Modesty Squad Illegally Gender-Segregates Kiryas Joel Supermarket

Vaad Hatznius hanging up a “men only” signs making segregated checkout aisles in Kiryas Joel supermarket 2-16-2014The Kiryas Joel Vaad Hatznius (modesty squad) put up “men only” signs to illegally create gender-segregated checkout aisles in the main supermarket in the Satmar Village of Kiryas Joel, New York.

Vaad Hatznius hanging up a “men only” signs making segregated checkout aisles in Kiryas Joel supermarket 2-16-2014


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Lakewood has these types of things. Some of the markets give the shopper the choice. Certain hours for men, certain hours for women, and certain hours for mixed.

This is just what I needed, now I can shop at ease.

I'd love to see how they'd react to a store with "Jew Entrance" and "No Kikes 10-6" signs.

This insanity of segregation of sexes is a good part of what makes for so many perverts among the ultra orthodox... There is so much repression and fear. The women have to be modest because the men are such animals? Is that how it works..OY

percherondad---"The women have to be modest because the men are such animals? Is that how it works..OY'
That is exactly how it works,the men are pure beasts with their unkept beards and payes they just need horns now to be full fleged animals.

If these people want to put up with this I suppose it's their own business even though it's illegal simply because no Satmar would ever complain. Would be interesting to see what if anything they'd try to do in the case of an outsider unfortunate enough to need to buy something there who joined the shortest checkout line and not the one the Satmar would have preferred him/her to have joined. At that point if they stepped in they'd be up against it. Too bad my travels don't take me up that way; I'd love to try it just out of curiosity.

SML- I would avise you not to try it. You might get away with it. But there is also a chance that they will beat the shit out of you,then scatter like roaches before the police arrive.

I am waiting for the establishment of lines for pregnant women, handicapped, and elderly who have difficulties standing for a long time.

Putting aside for a moment that the practice IS deplorable - I am not entirely certain that what they are doing is illegal OR enforceable (as in - go for it SMR, I have your back)

anuran: On July 4, 1940, grocery shopping by Jews in Berlin was restricted to one hour from 4 pm to 5 pm.

This mass insanity among the hassidim will go on like this until something tragic will happen the more you give in to them the more they will demand this is their nature.

More hysterics:

percherondad: Gender segregation does not cause deviance, it merely attracts deviants who hide behind it. The Catholic priesthood does not cause pedophilia either. Logic 101, week 1 (correlation and causality)

Gender segregation is not the same as Nazi style anti-Semitism or American style Jim Crow. Gender segregation is not meant as a discriminatory practice but merely to keep two populations apart, not necessarily favoring one or the other. Logic 101: week 2 (False analogies)

Of course, the most disturbing thing is the formation of "modesty squads" that invoke vigilante rules against public establishments, right here in America. That is an Iranian style tactic that we Americans should oppose. It is possible to prosecute if the store files the complaint. If the "modesty squads" are using intimidation to keep them from doing so, other charges like racketeering and extortion should be considered and investigated. The public concerned should pressure the store to take action against the vigilantes. If the store is, in fact, voluntarily segregating genders, they may do so. Their clientele will decide if this is an acceptable business practice or not. Gang rule is a bigger concern.

How about a "7 mitzvos or less" express lane? (For non-Jews)

Seriously, the best bet for them to get what they want legally is to simply "suggest" different checkout lines, store hours, etc. but be clear that they cannot and do not intend to enforce it. That way shoppers who want to conform can do so, and those who don't can do whatever they want.

R Nash - I think Jim Crow is exactly on point. Separate entrances, separate water fountains, separate seating, etc. It was all to keep the 2 sides from mixing. "Merely to keep two populations apart" is illegal per the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Rodin - If even at my age I can't manage a few Satmar then I'd deserve what I got. I'll be sure to have a large hunk of frozen meat - a large chicken would do - in my shopping cart to bludgeon them with.

Rebitzman - Thanks.


Jim Crow laws were not equal between the rights of the two parties. The modesty laws have nothing against women. They are hyperfocused on keeping men and women from mixing, based on their own mores, not on showing male superiority or degrading women. Even if you argue that they do just that, this particular action is arguably not tied to that reasoning. The reasoning of Jim Crow does not apply and that is transparent to anyone who seriously considers the issue. However, the fact that a deviant gang of religious enforcers is imposing its will on a public establishment is much more concerning.

R Nash,
To say that women are equal under Jewish Law let alone the crazed Taliban-like extremes of the Charedim is such a monstrous lie that I'm surprised you haven't been struck by lightning for uttering it.

This filthy behavior is illegal as all get-out. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits this sort of garbage...not that that matters to the Haredim/Hasidim/whatever they are.

I would just LOVE to see how this group would react to signs in "regular" supermarkets that said "This aisle for Jews", and "This aisle for non-Jews".

This is repugnant to me, not simply as a Lawyer and Officer of the Legal System, but also as a human being. And it should be repugnant to every other human being as well.

granted mr. barron.
no argument here.
but truth be told....i shop in these stores and mr. barron this
is something that i've been saying we needed for a long time.
hard to explain...but not a bad idea.
realistically speaking...i would be shocked if i ever saw this in any of my markets and would think it appalling...civil rights act of 1964 etc...
but this is another world here in monsey.

Is that the store that sells the wormy pineapples?

the refusal to allow for any testing of an individual by Hashem in this area, represents a form of religious extremism very close to what radical Muslims practice. The false notion is, that the more restrictions that you place upon yourself, the more religious you will be. In fact, it works the opposite way. The more extrinsic restrictions there are, the stronger your inner desire to commit the transgression becomes because you weaken your soul's natural preemptive ability to overcome tempatation and steer away from desire. Desire is hence only magnified and that is why we see all those 'honor' killings in the Muslim world. In addition, every excercise of respraint makes the soul grow that much more. So now we can all see what we are dealing with when it comes to Satmar. Judaism is definitely not about personal stagnation.

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