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December 18, 2013

Haredi Mohel Botches Bris, Causes “Life-Changing Injury” To Child

Rabbi Mordechai RosenbergThe boy’s parents “witnessed the entire gruesome and torturous event” and rushed their son to the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center’s Children's Hospital for emergency reconstructive surgery. The child also had to have leech therapy.

Rabbi Mordechai Rosenberg

Rabbi Mordechai Rosenberg

Haredi Mohel Botches Bris, Causes “Life-Changing Injury” To Child
Shmarya Rosenberg • FailedMessiah.com

An experienced Pittsburgh rabbi-mohel, 54-year-old Rabbi Mordechai Rosenberg, allegedly botched a bris, causing a “life-changing injury” to the infant.

The bris (ritual circumcision) reportedly took place on April 28, 2013.

Rosenberg allegedly acted “with a total disregard” for the child’s safety and health and “caused a catastrophic and life-changing injury.”

The boy’s parents “witnessed the entire gruesome and torturous event” and rushed their son to the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center’s Children's Hospital for emergency reconstructive surgery. The child also had to have leech therapy.

The allegations are made in a lawsuit reportedly filed this week which does not specify the exact injuries the child suffered or name him or his parents, the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review reported.

Rosenberg’s website claims he was “certified by the late Rabbi Yosef Dovid Weisberg, the Commissioner of Mohelim in Israel and Chief Mohel of Jerusalem” and “apprenticed under the late Rabbi Benjamin Nadoff of Pittsburgh.”

Rosenberg, who has been a mohel since 1990, “is recognized as a Certified Mohel by the American Board of Ritual Circumcision,” Rosenberg’s website says.

Mohels are reportedly not certified by any local or Pennsylvania state government agency.

A Philadelphia-area mohel, Mark Kushner, told the paper that most of the community boards that certified mohels shut down because due to lawsuits. Kushner reportedly said he was not sure how or if new mohels are certified now.

“I'm guessing it's a free-for-all, but I don't know,” Kushner said.

Rosenberg is a Chabad hasid.

Please click to enlarge:

Rabbi Mordechai Rosenberg website 12-18-2013

[Hat Tip: The Fez.]

Comments

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Serious question: Do mohels have to carry malpractice insurance?

Screaming this from the rooftops does not help. I do not give one flying f**k, how certified and trained these charlatans are, they are not:
a-Physicians
b-Surgeons
c-Knowledgable in current emergency procedure.
They have butchered another child. This time there is a lawsuit, how many times have they done this and quietly paid off a family. In the meantime, if the child survives, will he be functional, or will he be a eunuch?
I probably will get a whole lot of slagging by our UO friends, but there is an inescapable truth here: These mohels, are NOT a Doctor, and should not be cutting into another living being. Yes the skill has been handed down from mohel to mohel, BUT there is nothing backing up the skill. There is no knowledge of science or anatomy. There is no skill in stopping hemorrhaging, or suturing a wound. There is no evidence of first aid training or sterile procedure. The day of reliance on centuries of skills being passed on for religious purposes should come to an end and no child should be touched by a mohel without an MD after his name.

Just Google "hospital horror stories" "doctors amputated wrong leg" "doctors fondled patients" etc. and these are all by licensed doctors.
Point,with a mohel rarely you will hear a circumcision gone wrong.Hospitals and doctors you will find gazillion horror stories.

Trueyid--So let me understand you are saying that its nothing to be concerned about because it happens by non mohels and it should be included in the hazards of life,well 2 wrongs dont make it right besides you are minimizing the suffering of others,you are a truly callous person indifferent to the suffering of others this is what you have learned in yeshiva all youre life a true yid you are not for sure.

Trueyid-You are i forgot a moron, doctors perform millions of operation mohels only in the thousands,so dont compare a doctors mistake with a mohenls goilem that you are

poor kid. when of age he should sue his parents and the state for allowing it .

"Rosenberg is a Chabad hasid."

He does not have the Chabad style beard..He obviously trims his beard which Habad usually do not.

Also, Chabad hasids do not usually wear a silk yarmulka/

He definitely has the Litvish swag..

Posted by: Trueyid | December 18, 2013 at 02:05 PM
Of course you neglect to mention that its not that "rarely you will hear" but rarely will a family be allowed to report...if this happened in NYC area to a Hareidi family this would never have gotten out. Parents here are probably not even orthodox (if both witnessed the incident). That's probably why they are "allowed" to sue.

The only "point" you made with your comment is that in a country with 200 million people plus a "gazillion" stories in a world of free press is nothing compared to even one story for a few hundred thousand people (maybe?) who use mohalim and have a permanent and (almost) impenetrable gag order.

>>Point,with a mohel rarely you will hear a circumcision gone wrong.Hospitals and doctors you will find gazillion horror stories.

You think there'd be disclosure of such incidents in a subculture that rushes to cover up the slightest infraction?

James Deen –

Stop your lies.

1. His beard is rolled up, and you can see that if you look closely.

2. His wife is on the Tzach list.

I was planning on having my gall bladder taken out by the local parish priest. We were going to use the coffee table in the living room. They say he's the best.

I know Raabi Rosenberg, Motty as we fondly call him, personally. He is an absolutely wonderful person, caring, considerate, and very capable. If the accusations are correct, my heart goes out to him. We don't need to compare to other doctors; in every field people make mistakes, and sometimes they have devastating effects, whether to the physical, emotional or psychological well-being of other people. As far as not being medically certified, my guess is that mohelim are SUPER-trained in whatever a doctor would have to know. Otherwise, they would have to be crazy for going in to the profession. I don't see the point of continuing this string, other than allowing some people who have an ax to grind against people with beards. PS He is not a Chabad Rabbi, although I believe he teaches in the Chabad school. Again, nothing done here was malicious, and he for sure was trained to do the best job possible. Any doctor could have made the same mistake....

>>I was planning on having my gall bladder taken out by the local parish priest. We were going to use the coffee table in the living room. They say he's the best.

Pssht, parish priest. I've got a witch doctor I can hook you up with.

+++my guess is that mohelim are SUPER-trained in whatever a doctor would have to know.

Posted by: Eliezer | December 18, 2013 at 03:33 PM+++

That's a bit of a long stretch when medicine is a science-based profession and charedism fundamentally rejects science and defers, at best, to Bronze Age beliefs abut nature as espoused in the Talmud.

I don't deny that a mohel can be very skilled in the one particualr technical procedure they are trained in, most likely even more skilled *in that procedure* than some (or many) surgeons and if all goes well = then it will be OK. A non-medicaly trained mohel can, however get quickly out of their depth on the rare occasion that things go wrong.

There are mohelim that are also trained medical doctors and this should be who parents choose, as long as they don't also violate all medical protocols by doing MBP. Sadly, there are medical doctor / mohelim that also do MBP.

Stop your lies.

1. His beard is rolled up, and you can see that if you look closely.

2. His wife is on the Tzach list.

Posted by: Shmarya Rosenberg | December 18, 2013 at 03:27 PM

Shmarya Rosenberg -

Stop your lies.

Clearly on his website, which YOU linked:

Rabbi Rosenberg studied in Jerusalem and in the famed Beth Medrash Govoha of Lakewood, NJ. Rabbi Rosenberg is currently a member of the Kollel Jewish Learning Center of Pittsburgh, and a teacher in Hillel Academy.

Sounds very Chabad to me!


Look, I agree that sometimes things can get out of hand. Look what happened to Herb Score. I suppose you are going to point fingers at the person who created the game of Baseball for that....
Again, Rabbi Rosenberg is 100,000% capable. As capable as any other human being is. But we are all human and yes, we make mistakes. I guess only gripers on Failed Messiah's blog/comments are infallible.

Moshe Pipik –

Process:

1. His wife is on Chabad's Anash / Tzach list.

2. His beard appears to be rolled up – something non-hasidic haredim do not do.

3. There are students of Lakewood and of other haredi yeshivas who became Chabad.

He is not Chabad. Interestingly, in Pittsburgh, the members of the Lakewood Kollel send their children to the Chabad Day School.

To back up what i wrote please read the book "Unaccountable" and you will think twice what to do when going to the hospital.The author writes that:
One in four hospital patients is the victim of a medical mistake.
Thirty to 40 percent of our healthcare dollars pays for fraudulent or unnecessary care.
Ten to 15 percent of patients are not given all their options for care. And a surgeon operates on the wrong body part 40 times each week.
A Harvard study published in The New England Journal of Medicine in 2010 found that as many as 25 percent of all patients are harmed by medical mistakes. These mistakes are the fifth leading cause of death in the nation.

The old baloney that haredi Jews do not report "botched" circumcisions see what the author writes about the culture of silence among doctors and hospitals.

to trueyid:
1. Nobody said doctors don't make mistakes. That wasn't the point. I know a lot about medical mistakes but guess what? The medical malpractice bar tends to "bring out" those cases for which the hospitals and doctors remain silent. Not a perfect world but there is a balancing going on. Not so in the the "old baloney" world you write
...guess what yeah right...thats why Hareidim in NY dont even want informed consent?

2. ..because hareidim report botched circumcisions???

++A non-medicaly trained mohel can, however get quickly out of their depth on the rare occasion that things go wrong++

Excellent point. As long as everything is routine, the mohel looks great. But when a cut goes terribly wrong, and/or blood starts gushing, the party's over.

I have worked in hospitals that serve frumma communities my entire career. Circ mistakes, ranging from minor injuries to life-threatening catastrophes, come in every few days. Of course, none make it into the news.

How does a person who is barely literate, with no background in science or medicine, train to perform surgery, sterile technique, deal with complications such as bleeding and infection, etc.?

All 'physician extenders' such as APN's, PA's, midwives, etc. are required by law in every state to have a backup physician 'immediately available'. Laws vary from state to state as to how you define 'immediately available', but the laws exist in all states.
All such physician extenders are required to be licensed, which is a rigorous credentialing process. All require continuing education, mandatory reporting of serious complications, inspection of their equipment and records by DOH, CMS, JCAHO, etc.

What is a mohel's emergency backup plan in your living room? Answer: nothing.
Who certifies a mohel as being qualified? Answer: nobody.
Who performs quality control, peer review, M&M, credentialing, CE, etc., for mohels? Answer: nobody.

++a surgeon operates on the wrong body part 40 times each week++

And because of medical mistakes, doctors, hospitals, the DOH, CMS, JCAHO, etc. are continually trying to investigate what went wrong each time and implement regulations and protocols to prevent such things from happening.
Do mohels do the same? No, because nothing ever goes wrong, and because they are always "100,000%" right.

++As capable as any other human being is. But we are all human and yes, we make mistakes++

I do not want "any human being" operating on me.

And if we are all human and all make mistakes, why does the Jewish Press and other frumma news sites have so many ads by lawyers looking to help you sue your doctor?

Do mohels have any of these protocols? Doctors and nurses are required to perform these safety checks on every patient having a procedure:

http://www.who.int/patientsafety/safesurgery/tools_resources
/SSSL_Checklist_finalJun08.pdf

http://www.jointcommission.org/standards_information/up.aspx

http://www3.aaos.org/member/safety/protocol.cfm

http://blogs.hcpro.com/accreditationcenter/2008/08/who-surgical-checklist-and-tjcs-2009-universal-protocol-requirements/

Exactly where are the written standards that mohels must comply with to prevent mistakes, infections, bleeding, urethral injuries, etc.?

"my guess is that mohelim are SUPER-trained in whatever a doctor would have to know."

my guess is that they guess at whatever a doctor would hafta know, and that they eat super sugar crispy cereal.

Jancsi,in your case by your bris,i am pretty sure the mohel also made a big mistake,he circumsized the wrong part of your body,he took off a piece of your brains,
Jancsi,once again stop being Shmaryaha's little poodle who licks his boots all day

@WSC: Your points are well taken though those links you offer are essentially in relation to hospital care. If the circ is done in a hospital by an MD/mohel then yes those are relevant - and there are apt to be other physicians/surgeons readily available.

When a circ is done in the home it's that much more critical to have someone doing it who knows more about medicine and surgery than how to apply the clamp and how to cut around the edge. I don't think it's relevant here that this mohel is Haredi. In the end a non-MD mohel is a lay person whether Haredi or Reform. The argument should be that non-medical personnel should not be performing living-room surgery on babies. A botch by a Haredi is no worse than a botch by any other mohel. Maybe in a room full of non-Haredi Jews there might be a physician or surgeon to help assess the damage or control it but that's not an answer either.

+++I was planning on having my gall bladder taken out by the local parish priest. We were going to use the coffee table in the living room. They say he's the best.

Posted by: WoolSilkCotton; I must be seen to be believed +++

i dont want to brag but MY guy pours on holy water and then licks and sucks the wound clean when he's done.


+++Exactly where are the written standards that mohels must comply with to prevent mistakes, infections, bleeding, urethral injuries, etc.?+++

perhaps you've never heard of a book called the TORAH!! Its all in there. Where do you think modern science learned these things?
Any gadol could be a professor in medical school right now.

SML 5:35, good points.

"...Maybe in a room full of non-Haredi Jews there might be a physician or surgeon..."

Reminds me of a Fran Drescher joke. When her mother tells her she should try to meet a Jewish doctor, Fran says "Ma, if I want to meet a Jewish doctor, I'll just faint in the temple".


APC, LOL!

"Any gadol could be a professor in medical school right now."

Or teaching physics at the university level.

The truly sad thing is that many of them actually believe this.

Frum but kookoo--Stop being a poodle to youre automaton rebbes whose brains are back in 1000 b.c.

Jeff -

No doubt.

jancsibacsi-

Excellent and appropriate comeback!

ah-pee-chorus----THANKS:)))

Amazing to think that a man with no knowledge of science, a 5th grade education, not required to meet any standards of practice, is allowed to come into your living room and perform surgery on your child.

In answer to the question about whether mohelim carry malpractice insurance.

The joke is: Yes but there is a deductible, a 1" deductible.

+++Amazing to think that a man with no knowledge of science, a 5th grade education, not required to meet any standards of practice, is allowed to come into your living room and perform surgery on your child.

Posted by: WoolSilkCotton; I must be seen to be believed +++

True. At least its not surgery on something important like the penis.....oh wait a minute....never mind.

Then there was the story of the mohel who saved all of what he removed and pieced together a wallet from them. Nothing special except that when he rubbed it it would turn into a suitcase...

Incredible what a bunch of morons comment on this site....I'm no Charedi supporter but most active mohelim perform many more circumcisions than the average urologist or other physician. This article is about nothing more or less than a terrible error that affected a child. Likely, an error that is rare and hopefully within the standard of care for a mohel performing hundreds if not thousands of circumcisions. This is a tragedy but can happen with any mohel, charedi or not, and depends more on the individual mohel and whether he was performing the procedure correctly than on wether he is Charedi or otherwise....In reality, when it comes to Mila...experience counts more than training....(The eunuch comment was precious!) smart group of readers

@shmendrik:
Whose the moron now? "experience counts more than training" How to get experience without training? Would you willingly let a mohel perform his first mila on your son? What about his second? Who would? Noone knows when the first mila is because there is no formal training...

And yeah - they mostly go well but what about when they don't?

p.s. ever wonder why more women don't give birth in their living rooms with a doula?

In all likelihood, this bris would not have been reported on this web site if the mohel had not been Haredi. But in the real world, even trained surgeons subject their patients to some risk. Should baby boys be subjected to surgical risks if there is no good medical reason for doing so? Are there medical advantages for having a bris and do they offset the risk of a botched procedure? In Israel, a mother refused to have her young son circumcised because of the medical risks involved. Her ex-husband took her to rabbinical court where she lost the case. She has now appealed to the Israeli Supreme Court. After reading the Pittsburgh story, I am on the mother's side. Read about the Israeli case here: http://www.jta.org/2013/12/18/news-opinion/israel-middle-east/israeli-mother-appeals-order-to-circumcise-son-to-supreme-court

@Rocky. I also support and admire this mother. She is a Rosa Parks of the anti-circumcision movement. Fortunately more and more Jewish parents are now making this wise decision. For some reason even secular Jews who don’t keep kosher, don’t keep Shabbat and hardly ever set foot in a synagogue, nevertheless believe fervently in this bronze age ritual.

Full disclosure - I am reformed. We had a OBGYN mohel do our first son's bris. He moved out of state so we had an orthodox mohel lined up for our second son's bris. He came to see us before the bris because I thought something did not look right but the highly regarded hospital told me I was overreacting. The mohel took one look at him and gave me the name of a specialist and told me to not have a bris until I saw the specialist. My pediatrician (again highly regarded) did not think anything was wrong but separately gave us the name of the same specialist when pressed. The mohel called the practice to get us in as soon as possible & the specialist told us our son had a serious issue, which required surgery at 9 months and that performing the circumcision would have had serious consequences. The mohel was actually allowed into Children's hospital in Chicago to perform the bris (with doctor's supervision) during the surgery. The specialist is not jewish but told me that he works with the mohel quite a bit & he is better at catching problems than the docs at northwestern. Go figure but I am so happy we called the mohel.

WSC and anyone else who might know,

I have heard that Halacha does not actually require any particular individual to perform a circumcision only that it be done. If so, could one have an appropriate physician (pediatric urologist? surgeon?) who is Jewish perform the procedure with the blessings? Have you seen this done before?

Wigmore, I think it depends upon whom you ask. For Haredim, naturally, it isn't a bris unless it's performed according to their custom. When my nephew decided to become frum, even though he was attending a Modern Orthodox day school, he began hanging out with Hasidim (mostly Chabad, but others as well). One of them, a Karliner rabbi, told him his bris wasn't kosher because it had been performed by a doctor. He talked my nephew into allowing him to bring in a guy from Monsey who specialized in adult circumcisions to "legitimize" it. He actually just made a bracha and a small incision, drew a few drops of blood, then they all had a drink.

The whole thing was ridiculous.

Wigmore, that happens once in a while at our hospital, but the rabbi is always a reform/liberal conservative rabbi.
The pediatric urologist involved makes sure to let a drop of blood be expressed from the wound, and the rabbi says the blessings.

The orthodox never allow a doctor to get in on their turf.

If you start letting legitimate doctors perform the bris, it cuts down on mohel's income. I could also lead to questioning the infallible status of rabbis. It could lead to mixed dancing.

Shmendrik, what exactly is the standard of care for a mohel? You can be sure the plaintiff's attorney will ask.
Answer: there is none.

You can teach a monkey to do the same rote procedure over and over. I would not hire that monkey. I want someone with knowledge, background, and ability to handle complications. Someone required to meet recognized standards and who is accountable for what he does. Mohels only meet the monkey standard.

+++He actually just made a bracha and a small incision, drew a few drops of blood, then they all had a drink.

Posted by: Jeff | December 19, 2013 at 12:24 AM+++

Of mushkah, I trust, not the blood :-)

guys, let's face it...a lot of Mila across the world is done by mohels and most go well..This may very well be malpractice in this case but I'm still not sure that you can draw inferences from this and make any statements about Charedi mohels.....And, I assume that's why this story was published on this blog...and what I meant by experience is that many mohels who are active probably do hundreds of these successfully every year..

"Of mushkah, I trust, not the blood :-)"

Well, now that you mention it...

"Most go well" is not the standard of care for medicine in western civilized nations.

Most medical procedures can be done by unlicensed unregulated practitioners who have seen it done a few times. Modern civilized medical practice requires a higher standard, and "most go well" isn't good enough when it's an elective operation in which safety is essential and risk needs to be reduced to the smallest possible.

Whenever a new more stringent standard of care is introduced in the medical field, there is always blowback from old arrogant practitioners who refuse to accept change. Eventually and reluctantly, they do have to go along.
Of course, the frumma will never allow change, the sheeple will shut up and accept the occasional severed penis, damaged urethra, or spread of herpes, and nonreligious Jews who aren't aware of the risks that mohels entail will continue to hire them.
Look at the insanity displayed by the frumma when the issue of consent for MBP was raised. You think the frumma will yield any power on the issue?
Politicians won't pass regulation of mohels because the frumma will scream anti-semitism, and what politician needs that headache.

Shmendrik, if you think a comment about a severed penis is "precious", then you are obviously an ignoramus.
BTW, a baby with a severed penis is not a eunuch. The testicles are still there, but now the child faces a lifetime of incontinence and urinating from an opening in the lower abdomen. Operations to reattach a baby's severed penis usually go poorly. Results are terrible, and the child faces a lifetime of urinary and sexual dysfunction.
Shmendrik, if you think that's "precious", you have serious mental problems.

There needs to be certification and oversight.

Also, the scenes at brisim are not exactly controlled. People stand 6 inches from the mohel. Flashbulbs are going off. The kid sits on top of a big pillow on an old man's lap as the procedure is performed. It's ridiculous.

WSC
Had this botched bris been performed by an MD you'd simply say what you really mean to: stop this ridiculous stone age procedure...
No, when the doctor botches the bris the results are no different. All the 'holy' scientific knowledge in the universe the esteemed doctor may have, will not rectify any mutilation etc. Malpractice insurance? What's that got to do with any of it? The people of this country are so hitched on lawsuits; a bunch of greedy pigs.
Process.

"Had this botched bris been performed by an MD you'd simply say what you really mean to: stop this ridiculous stone age procedure..."

That isn't what he means to say, but I'll say it; stop this ridiculous stone age procedure. Then, arguments like this will be unnecessary.

"
James Deen –

Stop your lies."

I have no idea if he is Chabad or not, I just commented that he does not have the Chabad look, that is too swag to be one.

But in your warped world anyone who disagrees with you or sees things differently is a liar, Chabad or worst...

Jekly,
Doctors are far better qualified to perform surgery than rabbis are.
Doctors are held accountable for their complications, both medically and legally. If you don't believe me, that is your problem.

The right to sue a doctor or a mohel, and hold them accountable for their actions, is every American's right. If the doctor or mohel obeyed the standard of care, he should be able to defend himself successfully. Mohels have no standard of care.

While it may be a "Bronze Age" procedure, circumcision reduces the chances of transmission of HIV to men significantly (by 44% in men not at high risk and by 71% in at risk populations. In Johannesberg, South Africa, a clinic has been opened to perform free adult circumcisions. It also reduces the risk of transmission of genital herpes and HPV.

>>While it may be a "Bronze Age" procedure, circumcision reduces the chances of transmission of HIV to men significantly (by 44% in men not at high risk and by 71% in at risk populations.

That is a pro-circumcision talking point, and is far from proven.

“Circumcision reduces the chances of transmission of HIV to men significantly by 44%”. And NOT doing circumcisions reduces the risk of botched catastrophes like this by 100%. Those South African free clinics are for ADULTS. Nobody disputes the rights of adults to have whatever elective surgery they desire – whether for health, religious, or cosmetic reasons. But infants and children need our protection from any irreversible body modifications until they can reach an age of informed consent.

This whole silly arguments here boils down about the MONEY.Doctors charge and overcharge for silly stuff because they have to pay all the years they went to medical school and off course :hey im a doctor and i need to have a Lexus and a mansion in NJ.

Mohels in the Hasidic community do not charge a PENNY for a bris.Yes,a parent or grandparent will give them something as a tip.
Many times when there is a problem with the baby and the Doctor will say a bris can be done and there is no danger Mohels will not preform the bris becuase Halacha does not allow.

Doctors in general did not become doctors becuase they want to help humanity they are here to make big buks. Besides the fact the hanky panky that goes on in doctor's lounge in hospitals where doctors who just did the nasty will preform an operation,yuck.

Same with therapist.Licensed therapist cant take it when an unlicensed therapist is seeing patients becuase they charge far less.As far as hanky panky with patients its the same both you will hear how people got divorced becuase they fall in love with their licensed or unlicensed therapist.
Bottom line,botched brisen happen rarely botched procedures by doctors happen too often and it had to be stopped.Every doctor who is seen not washing their hands after seeing a patients or has a dirty office should be publicized.

Trueyid---You are a giant fool doctors perform millions of operation a year not so moels only in the hundreds besides you dont get the same doctor to make mistakes you have thousans of different doctors, dont compare apples with pears,you keep repeating the same mindless mantra here.

The woman has received a temporary injunction from the Israeli Supreme Court against the rabbinical court order that she must circumcise her son.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/.premium-1.564497

True idiot,

Mohels don't charge for a bris. LMAO

Don't worry yid, doctors and nurses already know what you think of them. If only you knew what doctors and nurses think of you.

The Bris should only performed by a medical professional. My little brother received his from a mohel who was an MD.

Again,Mohels in the Hasidic community do not charge a PENNY for a bris.

It is doctors like you sir who make a bad name for doctors.
It proves that one can be highly educated and still be evil.
One can be a doctor saving people lives and still hate people.Perhaps if you would show compassion on fellow Jews my impression on doctors will change.All you show on all your posts is hate and evil towards frumma yidden.I suppose secular education teaches ubber mentchen to hate frumma yidden.

And remember it well that ,Mohels in the Hasidic community do not charge a PENNY for a bris.

The mohel for my sons was Chabad, 29 years ago, and he charged me plenty. And everyone I know who hired a mohel was charged between $700-1500. Please explain. Or do they charge exorbitant prices from non-frum and give free brises to frumma?

If you know anything about the chasidic/litvish community you would know that in general Chabad is not really part of the chasidic/frum community they are in a world of their own.
Its also possible if a hasidic mohel is hired by a very modern person he will charge,i don't know.All im saying that hasidic mohels who perform brisn within the community and its in the tens of thousands do not charge a penny.

Of course you have to pay. Every time somebody offers something for free in this religion I wind up paying somewhere along the line.

The frumma complained to the hospital patient relations rep that they cannot wash their hands on Shabbos, because the soap is in an aerosol dispenser.
True feces, what do you think of this?

"Mohels in the Hasidic community do not charge a PENNY for a bris.Yes,a parent or grandparent will give them something as a tip."

You did not just say that.

Oh yes, the frumma are big tippers. Just ask any NYC taxi driver.

Jeff, the frumma command of the English language is great, isn't it? They are clueless about their own malapropisms and ironic miscues.

I still want to know if you can use an aerosol foam soap on Shabbos.

What would be the problem - creating bubbles? I understand you aren't supposed to use certain sponges when doing the dishes.

This was a big complaint from frumma at our hospital. So the hospital gives the frumma a squeeze bottle of soap if they ask for it.

"...something as a tip..."

Saving up for a wallet no doubt..

interesting sense of humor, WSC.

DH, I am serious about the aerosol soap. The frumma made a big deal out of it at the hospital.

What's the deal with the sponges?

Certain ones create bubbles that are above a critical size, or some something.

Bubbles make God very angry. Then He starts killing and smiting and sending plagues, etc.

Shari, if you want to reduce the incidence of HIV, AIDS or any other sex-related diseases, you need to use a condom, not get circumcised. Jeff is the only person writing sensibly here.


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