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December 09, 2013


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I realize you are far too ignorant to grasp this, little man, but a jury heard Shomrim's claims and REJECTED them.

And after the trial, many of the jurors talked to the media and said basically everything Robert Barron said.

On top of that, Borough Park Shomrim has a bad reputation for being vigilantes and cowboys, and they are not liked by the police at all.

Flatbush Shomrim, on the other hand, has a much better reputation and a much better relationship with the NYPD.

Now toddle off, little man – your sewer awaits you.

Frum but normal

hey Barron,
you just proved to us once again,that you can be an attorney and at the same time be a complete criminally insane moron without an ounce of common sense,Now let me teach you some common sense,and come to think of it,i doubt very much if you are an attorney as you claim,because if you were,you would know that 95% of these low life gangsters who get arrested,don't even go to trial,they plea bargain and get a reduced sentence or just a slap on the wrist,therefore don't you come to us with your idiotic and childish argument "BUT HE HASN"T BEEN CONVICTED"
Barron,you have spent so much time in Shmaryah's sewer,that your brains turned to marshmallow

Robert J. Barron, Attorney-at-Law

FBN: By the way, another bit of (constitutional) education for you- since I seriously doubt your Yeshiva spent much time educating you about American civics - after all, "Civics" is just for the goyim, right?

Just because someone has been arrested, in and of itself, if proof of absolutely nothing. An arrest merely means that 1) a crime has been committed, or may have been committed, and 2) the arresting authority has (what is known) as "probable cause" to believe that the arrestee committed the crime.

I have had numerous clients get busted (arrested) over the years, but never get convicted of anything...because an arrest is probative (meaning it proves) nothing other than what I stated above.

I realize this is probably difficult for you to wrap your head around but consider this- if you are going to live in this Country, and enjoy all of it's freedoms, it's not a bad idea to be an educated citizen, and part of that is understanding your constitutional rights. But one thing to keep in mind is that any constitutional right that you enjoy is enjoyed by every other person in the United States, regardless of race, religion, creed, color, etc, etc, etc.

Just because you did not learn this in the Yeshiva does not mean it's not important information.

Class dismissed.


No, moron.

The answer is that there was trial and the testimony of the Shomrim members was not found to be credible enough to convict Flores.

Now crawl back into your sewer.

Frum but normal

You just repeated three times that you don't know all the facts because you were not there,well I wasn't there either,therefore my question to you and to shmaryah,why would you take the words of a known serial criminal
Against the word of six shomrim members ?of course we all know the answer,because in your self hating twisted minds you would rather believe a career rapist and robber who has been arrested 20 times than believing a Hasidic jew,let me ask you a simple question,if this exact incidence would have happened not with shomrim,but with the guardian angels,would we have heard even one word from Shmaryah ?
We all know the answer,as I have said before this FM blog,is nothing but a self hating and Jew hating sewer,the nazi propaganda minister Goebles,would have been proud of this blog

Robert J. Barron, Attorney-at-Law

FBN: Apparently your yeshiva education did not enable you to read my statement of "granted, I don't know the whole story- regardless of whether or not this individual was "perving"; generally speaking, vigilantes are not held in high regard by the American public".

Had you bothered to read and consider my entire post, you would have realized I was speaking (largely) in generalities- but I seriously doubt whatever English you learned in school or grew up with had many allowances for nuance, generalities, or hypothetical situations.

Now again, I don't know all the facts. But I think that common sense tell us that in fact, if someone had emerged from a car firing a handgun, most people wont' start in fact beating him up- they will either run to avoid getting shot, or, if they are in fact close enough to engage him physically, they won't simply beat him up, they will either immobilize him (as what happened with the shooter in Arizona who shot Gabrielle Giffords) and/or they will break his bones (at least his arms) to where he physically can't shoot.

Accordingly, even though I do not know the full story, just the few facts that I have gleaned via reading the posts here really make me question the version of events the Shomrim were giving.

And as far as the Shomrim being registered, etc, that's all well and good- but as I stated before, when any neighborhood watch or patrol group sees something, (and I'm saying this generally) I believe they are supposed to call the police- and let the police do the job they are trained to do.


Yochanan Lavie -

but it's still vigilante justice, which is dangerous. Better he should go to jail and be beaten by fellow inmates.++

Agreed. I'm against vigilantism and would probably have voted 'not guilty' . But I don't believe a word of the muslim claim.

Yochanan Lavie

FBN: No worries :)

Frum but normal

i apologize

Yochanan Lavie


If they beat him because he's Muslim and he just happened to also be a perv, it's wrong. If they beat him because he's a perv, I have less trouble with that but it's still vigilante justice, which is dangerous. Better he should go to jail and be beaten by fellow inmates.

Operative word: "If..."

No mention about anyone's level of observance.

Frum but normal

Yochanan Lavie,
are you guys mentally deranged?,if someone comes out of his car with a gun blazing away and trying to kill you and injuring 4 of your colleagues,aren't you justified in beating him up to protect yourself,wouldn't you be justified even in killing him?
Yochanan,please explain to us why would you take the word of this criminal pervert who has been arrested over 20 times,over the words of six Shomrim volunteers ?
has your hatred of frum jews so destroyed your brains,that you cannot tell anymore between right and wrong,left and right,light and darkness
shame on you

Yochanan Lavie

APC: If they beat him because he's Muslim and he just happened to also be a perv, it's wrong. If they beat him because he's a perv, I have less trouble with that but it's still vigilante justice, which is dangerous. Better he should go to jail and be beaten by fellow inmates.

Frum but normal

Robert Baron,you have not added anything to the conversation,you are doing exactly what your friend SHmaryah,you have lost all credibility when you stated "vigilante action can be justified. But that was not the situation here. A bunch of (possibly) well-meaning people pulled someone out of a car and started beating him up" now here you are a supposedly an attorney,taking the claims of this criminal as fact,i am sure that you know fully well that the shomrim vehemently denied this,and they claimed that they only started beating him after he pulled his gun and started shooting,now why the jury did not convict him,was as you yourself stated,they were not sure beyond of a reasonable doubt.Bottom line is, you have not educated us at all,you only proved to us,you are the same chareidi hating low life as your friend Shmaryah,who would rather take the word of a criminal low life gangster who has been arrested over 20 times
over the words of 6 shomrim volunteers,just because these volunteers happen to be frum.
And by the way,where the hell to you have the nerve to call the Shomrim a vigilante group,the fact is,these shomrim work closely with the NYPD,WITH THE FULL APPROVAL AND COOPERATION OF THE POLICE DEPT.

Robert J. Barron, Attorney-at-Law

@Frum but normal: Allow me to educate you on the standard of proof required for a conviction; as I used to do Criminal Defense:It's not "100% proof"; it is proof that is BARD- Beyond a Reasonable
Doubt. Now, there have been many appellate (and even Supreme Court) decisions that discuss "Reasonable Doubt", but the capsule summary, is: "doubt found in reason; reason that the ordinary man would apply to the conduct of his affairs."

A jury does not need "100% proof"; if that was the standard, it is unlikely that there would ever be convictions, barring either a
video of the act(s) in question or a outright confession of the perpetrator of the act.

Now, as to these particular facts- and granted, I don't know the whole story- regardless of whether or not this individual was "perving"; generally speaking, vigilantes are not held in high
regard by the American public.(Movies notwithstanding- LOL) No one has a problem with a neighborhood watch or patrol group -
if that's all they are doing. But notice I said "Neighborhood watch or patrol". I didn't say "Neighborhood stop, detain, and
beat him up."

If in the fact the Shomrim had a reasonable suspicion that criminal activity was afoot, they should have simply called the people who are trained and paid to deal with criminal activity- ie; the police.

Now, if the Shomrim witnessed actions that would lead a reasonable person to believe that death or serious bodily injury was imminent- or that the destruction of property was imminent- then yes, a
vigilante action can be justified. But that was not the situation here. A bunch of (possibly) well-meaning people pulled someone out of a car and started beating him up. Most states allow someone
who has a reasonable fear that death or serious bodily harm is imminent to use all "reasonable force" to defend themselves. Certain states- and I don't know if NY state is one- do allow the use of deadly force in such situations.

But back to my point- Neighborhood Watch and patrol groups need to do just that- watch and patrol. Anything more and
they are asking for trouble.

Frum but normal

couldn't have said it better
you are absolutely right


my guess....

1.he was perving.

2.the shomrim were rightfully enraged.

3. the shomrim probably overreacted and tried to detain him and beat him.

4. he shot them to avoid being arrested and beaten,

5. the 'muslim' angle is total BS cooked up with his lawyer. exposing himself in front of their daughters is far more serious than his ethnicity.

I hope the animal gets locked up for many years.

Frum but normal

Shmaryah,you are so predictable,i was so sure you would come up with this childish argument,
of course i know he was acquitted,for the simple reason that to convict someone for a crime you must have 100% proof,and the jury felt they did not have it,and therefore legally they could not have convicted him,but for you or anyone else to say that he would rather take the word of this low life gangster Lopez over the word of 6 safety patrol volunteers,you have to be either criminally insane or a gangster yourself or both



There was a trial.

He was acquitted and the claims you make were not proved.

You are a cretin.

Frum but normal

Shmaryah,you just hit another low.
if you will check out this story,someone called the police and shomrim, claiming that a car is parked across a girls school with someone pleasuring himself,when shomrim arrived they asked him to come out of his car,a struggle ensued and this Lopez took out a gun and started firing and injuring four of the volunteers,this low life piece of human garbage has been arrested OVER 20 TIMES IN THE LAST 5 YEARS,including attempted rape and armed robbery,now to take the word of this criminal gangster over the words of safety patrol volunteers,you have to be criminally insane.
you see Shmaryah,your sick and demented irrational hatred of frum jews,has turned you into a vicious zombie who cannot differentiate between right and wrong,black and white,darkness and light,but it should not come as a surprise,being holed up for years in your mothers dark basement,doing nothing all day but looking to dig up dirt on some individuals and then blaming his whole community,Shmaryah we beg you please for your own sake,get out of that basement,get a job and return to civilization

WoolSilkCotton; I must be seen to be believed

Barry 4:43, excellent summary.

Frum but normal

The Shomrim Jüdische Ghetto-Polizei
Barry,please take your pills and check yourself into a good psychiatric hospital.
as i have said many times,spending too much time here in Shmaryah's sewer,will affect your brains


Doesn't matter why he was carrying a pistol. Frumma vigilantes had no right to assault him and he was doubtless truly in fear of his life and safety. That was what was determined in court so far. The gun charge is another matter and will be adjudicated separately.

YL has it right re: despising frum Jews: only the ones who are fools, liars, thieves, misogynists, racists, hypocrites, fraudsters, arsonists, pedophiles, draft dodgers, get refusers and seditionists. The rest of them should go in peace with my blessing.


If they have the yetzer hurrah beat a Muslim there are plenty all over.
It should be a regular occurrence that we hear about regularly.
Charedeim in some neighborhoods live in close proximity, like on the same block..

Why was he carrying a illegal pistol?


Notatroll - You failed to understand that even those people who are not uncomfortable with the idea of vigilante style street patrols have their limits when it comes to membership of such patrols being based on ethnicity, race or ideology.

The Shomrim Jüdische Ghetto-Polizei have no place in democratic society. Hareidism is a primitive right wing ideology which is both racist and misogynist and does not reflect the general pubic consensus which is vital since in a democratic society policing is by democratic consent. Hareidim also believe that their 'halacha' ethnic 'jurisprudence' is superior to criminal process (when in fact it is far inferior) and this makes their amateur vigilantism particularly dangerous. They should not be allowed to patrol or interact with any member of the public but should just remain guarding private Jewish institutions from trespass and vandalism.

Shomrim Jüdische Ghetto-Polizei is as much a problem in New York as the Jobbik street patrols are in Budapest or the Golden Dawn street patrols in Athens and should be shut down and this quasi comical wanker gunfight outside Satmar's Hachnasos Sefer Torah is no surprise.

The jury's verdict acquitting Flores makes this disapproval very clear. Unfortunately most Hareidim are too dim to get this message and those that do will ignore it because their supremacist ideology demands that they do so.


In this particular case I do not believe one word whatsoever that this character – who was reportedly arrested 20 times previously on various charges, including burglary and assault says.

He deserves to have the book thrown at him for his illegal gun.


i'm no fan of shomrim'style, but you'd have to be pretty talented to take the safety off of a small pocketed gun while being pummeled by a mob, or to be an innocent bystander with his arrest record.

Frum but normal

Shmaryah,you really hit the bottom of your sewer with this hatched job of yours,so let me get this straight,this guy was parked in front of a girls school ,and a call came into the police and the Shomrim that someone was pleasuring himself inside a car in front of a school,the shomrim arrived and told him to get out of his car ,the guy drew a gun and started shooting and finally was overpowered with four of the shomrim injured by stray bullets ,now this low life Flores has been arrested no less than 20 times in the last 5 years,would any normal human being believe one word what this low life piece of human garbage has to say,but of course your criminally insane irrational self hatred and hatred towards frum people has completely twisted and destroyed your brains and common sense,and you would take the word of this career criminal against the word of six upright shomrim volunteers.
Yes I realize he was acquitted ,because to convict you need absolute proof and the jury felt that they did not have it,
If you would have asked each individual juror whose story they personaly
Believed,would anyone of them have sided with Flores ,of course not.
Shmaryah,again I beg you for your own sake,get out of that he'll hole basement of yours and go get a job and join the normal civilization

Yochanan Lavie

NB: I don't despise all observant Jews, because I would have to include myself. I despise all aasholes, no matter what they say they are.


Every other day a whole bunch of doctors are arrested for bilking and bankrupting insurance companies.
Doctors are also caught fondling their patients.
Many teachers are just perverts.

Shomrim are just a whole bunch of busybodies who don't gain anything financial.

These educated ubber people doctors,teachers and lawyers cant keep their hands from stealing and fondling patients and students.

(The other) Eli

What a great advertisement to become an educator or a doctor when all they do is swim in sewer all day bashing fellow Jews. 
Posted by: Notatroll | December 09, 2013 at 01:35 PM

Here's an idea for haredi Jews; start behaving or stop spewing the sanctimonious drivel that they are morally superior to us lowly secular Jews or goyim. Then we wouldn't have much to bash them for

WoolSilkCotton; I must be seen to be believed

The frumma suck. It's that simple.


According to Jews who despise observant Jews,orthodox Jews are the dirtiest disgusting human beings on planet earth.Orthodox Jews according to these kind people are all about thievery from non-Jews("goyim"is a racist term to these folks) and raping kids.

What a great advertisement to become an educator or a doctor when all they do is swim in sewer all day bashing fellow Jews.

Yochanan Lavie

According to the trolls, beating someone half to death because you don't like his presumed religion is no big deal. If you call them out on this, you're a bleeding-heart-self-hating-Jew-atheist.

What a great advertisement for kiruv! What a kiddush Hashem! (sarcasm)


These hasidim are simply animals bla bla bla.
They are uneducated and and infared and can't even tell the ddifference between a muslim and a chirstian bla bla bla.


The guy was arrested 20 times before so I wouldn't give him much credibility. Shmarya can you find out what things he was arrested for?

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