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August 21, 2013

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Hal

-Moshe Feinstein and his generation of leaders were refined for the most part.-

Let me rephrase, Moshe Feinstein was always refined to my knowledge. The generation of leaders in his time were refined for the most part.

Hal

-In fact, I heard once a black hat explaining that derekh eretz has nothing to do with common courtesy. according to him, derekh eretz = upholding the theuyroh.-

That doesn't surprise me. Much of the Haredi world is antinomian -

In Christianity, an antinomian is "one who holds that under the gospel dispensation of grace the moral law is of no use or obligation because faith alone is necessary to salvation"

Jeff

"Why only now do they speak up? Why not when little girls get spat on, or ladies beaten up in buses?"

Because those things aren't against halakhah!

Yosef ben Matitya

Moshe Feinstein and his generation of leaders were refined for the most part.

Hal,
possibly when they were taught that derekh eretz precedes theuyroh, they were busy beating up somebody! :-)
In fact, I heard once a black hat explaining that derekh eretz has nothing to do with common courtesy. according to him, derekh eretz = upholding the theuyroh.

Hal

I wonder how much faster the acceleration to Godwin's law we find in Jewish circles.

Hal

Why only now do they speak up? Why not when little girls get spat on, or ladies beaten up in buses?

Yosef ben Matitya

גאָט לאַכט
Indeed, God must be laughing. After they invalidated many conversions, their own beit din is being invalidated!

Hal

But you see their choice of words is part of why people in that world are so strident and violent. Their supreme leaders talk with such a lack of decorum and it sets an example. By contrast, Moshe Feinstein and his generation of leaders were refined for the most part.

S M L

Let's focus a little more on the sentiment these two rabbis have expressed and less on the words chosen. They're rejecting the actions and words of what are arguably the worst of the worst among Haredim and for doing that they should be praised.

R Nash

Hal, you need to get out more. Godwin's Law is alive and well in the echo chamber of the Haredi leadership world, and even into the Orthodox Jewish world unfortunately. In fact, in any monotone echo chamber of philosophy or opinion, this is the tendency.

In fact, oddly, "VoiceofTruthOf" is not incorrect about the same affliction in these comments.

Bottom Line: Just because something is wrong, really wrong, wronger than wrong, keep perspective on whether it merits profanities, provocative insults or violent reaction. Eventually, without moderation, even the fiend who left his garbage out all night at the curb might as well have sent millions to the death camps.

Jeff

Voice of Drek - we don't claim to be God's anointed.

Jeff

"May it be God’s will that [these worthless people] fully repent.”

If they don't repent, it wasn't God's will? What about free will (in which they claim to believe)?

VoiceoftruthOf

It's funny to see comments about name calling from ppl that support a site like this.
But then again hypocrisy is nothing new over here

Bas Melech

Many charedim detest those who conduct violent demonstrations. The "worthless people" bring violence to frum neighborhoods and a bad image to peaceful charedim.

Edith

I was taught to speak politely and be objective when arguing with someone, and not personal. But then, what would someone as worthless as me know.

Hal

I never heard insults like that before coming into the frum world. "Worthless people." Who else talks like that?

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