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August 08, 2013

Haredi Man Punched By Secular Passenger After Trying To Illegally Coerce Gender-Segregation On Jerusalem Bus

Egged busWhen the haredi man illegally demanded the woman to move to rear in order to maintain gender segregation, the young secular man punched him in the face and pulled his beard. The haredi man suffered unspecified minor injuries and was treated on location by paramedics.

Egged bus

Haredi Man Punched By Secular Passenger After Trying To Illegally Coerce Gender-Segregation On Jerusalem Bus
Shmarya Rosenberg • FailedMessiah.com

A young secular man reportedly punched a haredi man who demanded that a woman move to the back of the Jerusalem public bus they were riding on.

The incident occurred earlier today on the scandal-plagued Egged Bus Company’s Number 54 bus in the Givat Shaul neighborhood, the Times of Israel reported.

According to media reports, when the haredi man illegally demanded the woman to move to rear in order to maintain gender segregation, the young secular man punched him in the face and pulled his beard. The haredi man suffered unspecified minor injuries and was treated on location by paramedics.

The attacker fled when passengers called police.

Police searched for the secular man but have not yet made an arrest.

Jerusalem public buses have clearly posted notices telling passengers that any attempt to force or coerce anyone to move from the seat of their choice is a criminal offense, except for asking able-bodied passengers to give up specified marked seats for the disabled.

Israeli courts have ruled that gender segregation on public buses is illegal. They have also ruled that it is the responsibility of the driver to prevent anyone from coercing or forcing others to gender-segregate and/or immediately notifying police.

But in practice, few drivers have upheld the law. Egged has also bent over backward to both appease haredim and skirt court ruling prohibiting gender segregation and exclusion of women from public advertisements posed on and in its buses. Last month, its CEO was quoted as saying that in Jerusalem, where many haredim live, Egged – a public bus company – operates as a haredi company. The remark sparked outrage in non-haredi communities.

Last week in Beit Shemesh, police arrested a haredi couple after they tried to compel woman to sit in the back of Egged bus 497 and for making a public disturbance. In response, haredim rioted and vandalized three occupied Egged buses, smashing windows with hammers and throwing stones. No rioters were arrested.

Similar incidents have occurred in Beit Shemesh and Jerusalem with alarming frequency over the past several years. Recently, dozens of bus stop shelters, deemed by haredi activists to be “immodest” because the seats are fixed rather than folding (and presumably much more comfortable, leading to longer sitting and more socializing), were destroyed by haredi vandals.

The main reason Egged cites for appeasing haredim in defiance of court orders and rulings is fear of haredi violence.

Police have been remarkably bad at preventing haredi violence, vandalism and coerced gender-segregation. They have taken few, if any, proactive steps and largely appear prefer to ignore the crimes.

Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and its Minister of Internal Security Yitzhak Aharonovitch have largely remained silent about this violence and about the abuse of women.

Update 6:18 pm CDT – The Israeli Hebrew news website Mako reported that Egged claimed that the secular man is mentally ill and he harassed an elderly haredi man. Two other haredim tried to protect the elderly haredi man him and attacked the secular man. But, Mako added, police reject that version of events and adhere to the original version it told reporters – that the woman was harassed by the haredi man and the secular man responded by pulling the haredi man’s beard and punching him in the face.

Egged has been under tremendous scrutiny over the past several months after its arguably illegal appeasement of haredim has become public.

In theory, Egged could possibly lose its public contracts due to its anti-woman and anti-secular discrimination.

[Hat Tip: Yochanan Lavie.]

Comments

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Violence cannot be justified. However, responding to the provocation with a ringing, "eat my shorts!" would be a valid retort, IMHO. If the man continued, an acceptable response could be, "shove your tefillin up your tuchus."

Good!

Violence is to be condemned - period. This plays into the Haredi game plan. However if the Haredi had actually become threatening or had spat on or towards the woman then shoving him on his butt and threatening to do worse would be just about the right response.

you will see more of this and maybe worse

Just like in Ramapo, the Charedim, have pushed the Jews and non-Jews to breaking point. Whilst violence is never an option, except for legitimate self-defense, I am afraid this is only the beginning and things will get far worse. Unfortunately, the antagonists will not distinguish between Charedim and Jews and we will be dragged down with them.

I hope the police "search" for him in the same way they "search" for haredi assailants.
What a terrible mark this would be on Israel's already tarnished reputation as a "secular" democracy when the law is enforced on everyone but the ultra-orthodox.

He was trying to commit the crimes of unlawful detention and verbal assault (Don't know what the Israeli legal equivalents are). The use of non-deadly physical force to prevent that is legal in many countries if other means such as telling him not to don't work.

Keep on deleting posts which show you lied Shmarya, but the truth won't go away:

"According to the Mako news site, however, the Egged bus company has a different version of the same incident. According to Egged, the secular man suffers from mental health problems. He was harassing a hareidi passenger, and two other hareidim came to the hareidi man's assistance and hit the harasser."

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/170720#.UgQeZpIwr1o

He should get a medal for this. It's about time the Haredim got a taste of their medicine. They think they have a divine right to push everyone else around. It's time to push back. If enough Haredim get their clocks cleaned, they might just stop.

The other Eli, I wouldn't be surprised if they put far more effort into finding this guy than they do into finding and arresting the stone throwers or the spitters.

Ed –

You have a mental illness.

1. I wrote a story based on the Times of Israel (and several other Israeli media reports).

I clearly link to it and cite it, and I accurately report what it says.

2. Arutz Sheva is hardly an unbiased news site and it frequently messes up even simple stories – not because of bias, but because of cronyism and incompetence, and this story is no example:

"While women sit in the back of the bus in the “mehadrin” lines that cater to the hareidi sector, bus number 54 is not one of these lines."

That sentence is incorrect.

It is ILLEGAL in Israel to have "mehadrin" public buses – a clear, simple and demonstrable FACT Arutz Sheva does not report.

3. The rest of its report confirms everything I reported about the incident.

4. Arutz Sheva adds Egged's alleged story (which is not as of yet reported elsewhere in English as far as I know). As is typical for Arutz Sheva, it does not link to its source and a quick check of Makko's front page doesn't seem to show the story.

5. None of this in any way indicates, let alone proves, that I "lied."

6. It does, however, prove that you are not very bright, not very honest and not mentally well.

Ed –

I should add that you misreported what both Mako and Arutz Sheva reported. Both clearly say that police are sticking with their version of events.

+++Ed –

I should add that you misreported what both Mako and Arutz Sheva reported. Both clearly say that police are sticking with their version of events.

Posted by: Shmarya Rosenberg | August 08, 2013 at 06:19 PM +++

Unfortunately, due to institutionalised lying and cheating by Charedim, I now treat them just as I would politicians - assume they are lying unless proven otherwise. The onus is on them to prove they are telling the truth. Sadly, I never thought it would come to this....

Ed – I should add that you misreported what both Mako and Arutz Sheva reported. Both clearly say that police are sticking with their version of events. Posted by: Shmarya Rosenberg | August 08, 2013 at 06:19 PM

Are you serious, Shmarya? My post is simply a quote. How could it possibly be a misreport when nothing is added to the quote.

The police version is already posted by you, of course. The only thing to add, for the full picture was the version of egged.

+++The police version is already posted by you, of course. The only thing to add, for the full picture was the version of egged.

Posted by: Ed | August 08, 2013 at 07:35 PM+++

The version of Egged has been examined by police and found not to be what happened. Egged is terrified that the Charedim will destroy their property if they tell the truth.

As a lawyer, I clearly deplore the use of force to settle disputes. It is the opposite of appropriate behavior in a civilized society.

But when it concerns the haredim...who feel no compunction against rioting, spitting on little girls, throwing food, feces and rocks, destroying property, and then complaining that the Israeli government does not pay them enough to sit there and study the Torah...well, what ELSE are these people going to understand?

They won't understand that gender segregation is both illegal and immoral; they won't understand that a public bus is just that- public. And all the attempts at logical persuasion in the world won't change their minds.

But a punch in the face will certainly change their behaviors.

"Are you serious, Shmarya? My post is simply a quote. How could it possibly be a misreport when nothing is added to the quote."

Ed –

No, idiot, it is not a "quote" – it is a TRUNCATED quote. The ENTIRE, COMPLETE, UNEDITED quote is as follows (note that you left off the last sentence:

"According to the Mako news site, however, the Egged bus company has a different version of the same incident. According to Egged, the secular man suffers from mental health problems. He was harassing a hareidi passenger, and two other hareidim came to the hareidi man's assistance and hit the harasser. Police are sticking to their version, however."

Also note that Mako's version uses much stronger wording (in Hebrew) to describe how adamant police are that the original version of what happened is correct.

Shmarya,

I'm going to try to make this as simple as possible.

There are 2 versions to the story.

You presented 1.

You did not mention that the bus driver claims that the attack by the chiloni had nothing to do with seating arrangements.

I mentioned the other version.

The bus driver was there when it happened.

The police were not.

The most important version to report was the bus driver's - you didn't, you failed.

Idiot.

The report does NOT say the bus driver made that claim. It says EGGED made the claim.

The police were at the scene just moments after the assault happened and took eyewitness testimony from passengers and the driver.

So I'll make this very simple for YOU: your parents wasted their money on a very inferior education for you – a yeshiva education.

Their error – and your stupidity – clearly shows for all to see.

Wrong - my education was in the Ivy League.

And, at your community college, did they forget to explain that a bus company would not make an official statement about a bus incident without confirming it with the bus driver.

After all, when the bus driver in beit shemesh said that there was a request to move to the back, egged supported it, even after the alleged victim said that the woman merely "informed" her and was "kind" to her, facts the Leftist media and your pitiful site left out in order to continue providing 1 sided stories.

"my education was in the Ivy League"

Yet you're frum. Well, there was a waste of a lot of someone's money.

Ed –

"Wrong - my education was in the Ivy League."

Oh, please.

You may have been educated in a state or city with an Ivy league university, but you clearly lack the intelligence and mental ability to have studied in one (unless you're a legacy who got his place because daddy is very rich).

"And, at your community college, did they forget to explain that a bus company would not make an official statement about a bus incident without confirming it with the bus driver."

Idiot.

Do you even realize that statement makes no logical sense at all?

Can you really be this stupid?

"After all, when the bus driver in beit shemesh said that there was a request to move to the back, egged supported it, even after the alleged victim said that the woman merely "informed" her and was "kind" to her, facts the Leftist media and your pitiful site left out in order to continue providing 1 sided stories."

Moron.

The difference between the two event is the VIOLENCE and who called police.

In Beit Shemesh, the driver called police – i.e., he did the right thing according to the law – and there was no violence until AFTER the arrests were made, and the violence was committed by haredim against three Egged buses full of secular and Modern Orthodox passengers.

In this Jerusalem incident, PASSENGERS called police – i.e., the driver failed to act according to the law – and the violent person is secular.

Egged cannot deny the violence took place, but it has to deal with a) its driver doing the wrong thing and, b) potential haredi retaliation. Far easier for Egged to lie and claim that secular assailant is mentally ill and attacked for no reason than it is to explain why one of its drivers broke the law. Because, as I noted, its drivers usually break the law as does Egged itself, and it has come very close to losing its public tender.

Shmarya, now you're a conspiracy theorist, with wild theories about how public companies dispute police reports in order to appease a minority group and cover up for the all important driver whose mistakes must be concealed at the risk of endangering the careers of executives?

And sorry large man, the ivy itself, not it's city and no legacy. But right, keep on believing that every frum person is either evil or an ignorant follower of the evil.

Ed –

Please.

You're a mental midget who lacks the skill and the talent to have been a student in an Ivy league school.

You can't even make a cogent logical argument or process simple facts.

As for my 'conspiracy theory,' it is in your head, it is your fantasy – not reality.

What I said is that that Egged's reaction in both cases was situational and based on what the facts would allow it to get away with.

Egged has a documented history of downplaying haredi violence and haredi abuse of women, Eddie.

When I say that is likely what went on here, as well, I'm not pulling it out of my ass – unlike your pathetic attempts at making your points.

You are truly pathetic.

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