« How Wendy Runge Got Out Of Prison | Main | Haredi Thugs Physically Attack Leading Rabbi’s Son Over Alleged Graves “Desecration” »

August 20, 2013

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

BeenThereDoneThat

Nowhere does it say in the Torah, that study of the Torah is to the exclusion of all other things.

It has always been taught that one must have a trade, and in your spare time, learn Torah.

What is happening in in the Hairydim world is against the Torah, and against nature.

The idea of a Kollel, is for business men, who are unable to learn Torah as much as they want to, pay for a married man to learn Torah all day - as learning by proxy.
Never has it been intended that the government should pay for such a facility.

It priestly times, the Cohanim and Levyim were supported by the rest of the jewish people. But they still worked for a living - they did all of the services, and the cleaning up etc.

These Hairydim just have a welfare mentality.

David

Never in Jewish history has any group such as the Charedim advocated non-working as a lifestyle. The Torah teaches that one must teach their children a trade and that one must work.

Also see http://www.ou.org/torah/tt/5762/bereshit62/specialfeatures_mitzvot.htm

"the Shulchan Arukh states that after morning seder, a man “should go to work, for Torah without work is destined to be annulled and encourages wrongdoing” (OC 156:1). (Learning and receiving a kollel stipend is also considered work, and someone who supports himself this way can be considered self-sufficient. See Rema YD 246:21.) The Shulchan Arukh also states that “Even a respected Torah scholar who becomes impoverished should engage in a trade, even an undignified one, and not become dependent on others” (YD 255:1)."


Note: learning in Kollel is considered work - fair enough - but then the Shulcan Arukh was written there was no welfare so one assumes such learning was self-funded or funded by a benefactor - all kosher as long as tax dollars aren't involved and see last sentence above "not become dependent on others".

S M L

Their lashing out indicates that the cuts are being felt and are painful. Good.

Jeff

"This government, a government of destruction, evil and annihilation, is not fitting to support the Torah world."

Fine, then they should agree that the despised Zionist state shouldn't be funding them.

That said, I wonder if the cuts aren't a little too much, too soon. They aren't really fit for conventional employment, and even though we're a bunch of unrepentant reshaim, we certainly don't want children to starve.

Perhaps they could be put to some sort of paid community service - although I'm at a loss to suggest which kind.

jancsibacsi

Jeff--i DONT AGREE WITH YOU THIS TIME I THINK THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO GO HUNGARY TO EXPERINCE HARDSHIP,OTHERWISE THEY WILL NEVER TAKE LIFE SERIOUSLY AND GO TO WORK AND KEEP ON MAKING CHILDREN FOR OTHERS TO SUPPORT.THEY ARE 100 PER CENT IRRSPONSIBLE SO LET THEM TASTE THE REAL LIFE WHERE YOU ARE ON YOURE OWN.

jancsibacsi

To be honset toreh never ever contributed any science or boosted the economy toreh learning is only to dupe the people nothing else its hot air never built anything,it mostly just sucks resources out of hard working people those who constantly rehash this absolute nonsese of toreh of everything are nothing but parasites,it ruins a whole generation of otherwise capable young man .

Alter Kocker

To Yair Lapid:
Keep it up. Hardship must be felt at all levels in order to compel them off the welfare rolls and into employment. Frankly, they will need to take every menial job there is, because their leaders denied them even the bare minimum of life skills from reading to mathematics. It will take at least two more generations to repair the indignities done to these people by their power-mad rabbonim.

Allan

Agreed jancsi. Imagine if all this wasted effort had been applied to research in medicine, physics, software development, biotechnology - or any useful contributions to the economy. But Haredi "education" renders children unqualified to lead such useful lives in the future. This educational child abuse must stop. Cutting off all funding for Torah education is an essential step Israel must take and the time is now.

Bas Melech

There are 2 issues here. First, are yeshivas entitled to the support? Second, can the government afford to pay for the support?

Even if the answer to the first is yes, the second is no. But of course, most charedim live in a fantasy world.

Account Deleted

Jancs and Allan,

To elaborate on your excellent points.

Not only is the Hareidi lifestyle a drain on the betterment of human welfare in it's lack of productivity towards the general societal good, it also fails in providing a boost to the Spiritual well being on Earth.

To be more precise, despite the accomplishments of Bikur cholim organizations, Hatzolah, etc and other haredi creations that do actually help Man, they have a deplorable return on their human capital and cash investment.

The Haredim seem like empty vessels of spirituality if you judge them by how they interact with the other children in the family. They claim Faith in a Creator, but demand the resources of other men. Cowards.

Without too much taxing analysis, anyone can see that the family of mankind has a really spoiled, obnoxious brother in need of immediate intervention.

I would guess that after the primitive patricidal African nations, and the Muslim populations, the Haredim rank next as the biggest failures in the family (superficial analysis granted, but valid nonetheless.)

Jeff

Well guys, what can I say? I had a moment of weakness!

Ultimately, whether it is done quickly or gradually, the funding needs to stop. If they want to continue to study (or pretend to) full time, let them secure private funding.

In the meantime, this business of eschewing secular education for their children has to stop, both here and in Israel. Force must be used, if necessary.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Your Information

(Name and email address are required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

6a00d83451b71f69e201b8d1656462970c-250wi

FailedMessiah.com in the Media