When A Haredi 'Gadol' Lies

Rabbi Aharon Feldman claims that the Israeli government has no right to impose secular education on haredi schools, and says that "nowhere in the world would they act so paternalistically towards a minority" – even though all western and westernized countries have educational standards all schools – even haredi schools – are required to meet, and even though his own yeshiva middle school and high school teach secular subject and his post-high school yeshiva students often take night courses at Johns Hopkins with the yeshiva's approval.

Rabbi Aharon Feldman

The haredi group blog Cross-Currents has a transcript of a speech Rabbi Aharon Feldman, the rosh yeshiva (dean) of Ner Israel Rabbinical College (yeshiva) gave to his students and then to a Toronto haredi organization via video conference.

The speech is notable, primarily because Feldman repeatedly lies. He also seems to not grasp the concept that while serving in the army is a great service to the whole nation, sitting and studying Torah to become a greater Torah student is not.

While Feldman's lies and his whining obscure basic facts, Cross-Currents has closed all comments to the post, even though its regular policy is to moderate comments and clear each one of them before allowing them to be published.

Why the censorship?

Probably because many of its readers would not only strongly disagree with what Feldman wrote, they would point out his lies.

And the gang over at Cross-Currents couldn't have a haredi 'gadol's' lies exposed.

Rabbi Natain Slifkin has done a superb job of upshlugging (for want of better translation, overturning, throwing it back in the face of) Feldman.

Here's an excerpt:

…Learning Torah, knowing enough to live life as a religious Jew, is an essential task. But it is not fulfilling a service to the nation! Learning to read and write and do math is likewise an essential task, but it would not be considered fulfilling a service to the nation! National service means doing something for other people. Serving in the army is an immense service to everyone else. Learning Torah is not a service to anyone else.

Or, to put matters another way: You can learn Torah and serve in the army. Many, many national-religious Jews do exactly that. There are even some charedim who do that. To have all charedim learning not only for most of their lives, but also non-stop between the ages of 21 and 24, is not an essential national service!

Turning to the topic of education, Rav Feldman claims that the government has no right to impose an educational curriculum upon the charedi community, and that "nowhere in the world would they act so paternalistically towards a minority." How on earth can he say such a thing? Every Western country has compulsory education! Again, to quote Rabbi Adlerstein: "They uphold the need of a democratic society to assure that children are given both a chance at vocational success as well as share some information... that is meant to bring about some social cohesion." (Not to mention the fact that Chazal themselves held that a parent has an obligation to teach his child a trade!)

Rav Feldman complains that the natural leaders of the Charedim should be consulted before making such changes. Why? It's something that is a need for the rest of the country (who are financially supporting the charedim), as well as for many charedim. Adina Bar Shalom, Rav Ovadiah Yosef's daughter, appeared before the Knesset task force to help charedim enter the work force, and begged them to implement math and English because 50% of the boys in her chareidi college drop out due to their lack of math and English. If the leaders of the charedi community were open to discussing how this should be solved, then I'm sure that Lapid and co. would be open to consulting them as to how to go about doing this; but all the charedi leaders say is no, no, no.

Strangely, Rav Feldman then claims that the "primary purpose of education should be... to educate young people to be human beings." Well, yes, but that's not what's under discussion here. Rav Feldman then goes on about how secular Zionist society is morally bankrupt and leaders are bought off by bribery, whereas charedi children are educated not to lie, cheat or steal, and to love Jews and respect authority. Aside from the fact that this is completely and utterly irrelevant to the issue of teaching math, it's also completely and utterly false. Do I really have to go into details about how so many charedi leaders were bought off by the bribery of Leib Tropper? Or about all the lying, cheating and stealing that is done by charedi Jews, sometimes under the auspices of kollels and other such institutions? And this is directly attributable to the fact that charedim do not have the education, qualifications and inclination to be financially self-sufficient. As Chazal state, Whoever does not teach his son a trade, has taught him to steal.

Rav Feldman claims that "Gemara prepares a person for modern technology more than even math and science. When our students enter job training, they score higher than their secular counterparts, because their minds have been developed." But his students in Baltimore learn secular studies in addition to Gemara! In Israel, on the other hand, where they learn virtually no secular subjects, the students are ill prepared for any meaningful education. Again, recall Adina Bar-Shalom's testimony that 50% of her male students drop out due to lacking basic math and English!

And now we come to the tired old canard that the real reason why many non-charedim want charedim to get the most basic secular education has nothing to do with alarm at a growing sector of the population which is under-employed, does not build up the economy or workforce, and has its Knesset representatives insist on a "right" to be supported by the rest of the country. No, the real reason, says Rav Feldman, is the desire to secularize the charedim!

Surely he can't be serious. Eleven hours a week of math, English and Hebrew is going to “secularize” them? He must not have much faith in the Torah that they learn the rest of the time! The charedi-leumi community in Israel and the charedi community in America have even more hours of general studies. Wanting charedim in Israel to be more like charedim in the US is not wanting to "secularize" them!…

Rav Feldman then repeats a claim that he made several weeks ago, that charedim pay taxes just like everyone else. I don't understand how he can say something that is so obviously false. A person learning in kollel does not pay anything like the amount of taxes that someone in a regular job pays. Sure, he pays property tax and VAT. Whoop-de-do! But his company isn't paying company tax, he doesn't pay income tax, and he only pays 10% of municipal taxes.

This in turn shows the flaw in Rav Feldman's complaint that charedi tax money goes to pay for things that they neither want nor use, such as television, sports stadiums, and so on. The amounts that are spent on such things are a miniscule fraction of that which goes to things that charedim do benefit from - infrastructure and defense. But more significantly, the amount of taxes coming from the charedi community, and their contribution to the workforce and economy, is so low that they are certainly not net providers!

Rav Feldman concludes by returning to the army issue, and asking the Israeli government not to "wreck our lives as Jews." I really don't see how the charedi-leumi community, which serves in the army, have had their lives as Jews wrecked. Still, if that is how Rav Feldman feels, to the extent that he talks about pulling his family out of Israel, so be it. In the US, he will find a government that also dictates basic secular education. And also one that, in times of war for national survival, would not grant an exemption to 20% of the population.

Being a citizen of the state carries responsibilities to the state. These may be spiritually threatening. They may even be physically threatening. I'm terrified about sending my sons to the army! But that is part of the responsibility and privilege of being a citizen of this tiny, precarious, amazing country.

Feldman's atrocious speech is just another in his long line of lies and muddled thinking that dates back, at least, to his abandonment of Slifkin when Israeli haredi gedolim banned one of Slifkin's books, sight unseen – a book Feldman had endorsed.

Feldman caved in to pressure from haredi "askonim" (activists – who are too frequently thugs) and began lying about his support for Slifkin and attacking Slifkin. And its all been downhill from there as far as Feldman's adherence to the truth goes.

Some might question why I accuse Feldman of lying. Perhaps he's only mistaken? t

But when facts are clear and in evidence, and a leader speaks or writes about the topic and twists or ignores those facts, he is lying, and he deserves to be called out for it.

As for CrossCurrents, just in case it pulls down Feldman's laughable remarks, here they are as a PDF file:

Download Lapid's Campaign Against Judaism -- Cross-Currents -- Rabbi Aharon Feldman

[Hat Tip: Yochanan Lavie.]

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Comments

[bluke]

See my post Comparison of Haredi education in Israel and the US for a point by point comparison of what is mandatory in the US and what is mandatory in Israel.

[bluke]

Here is the link to my post http://jewishworker.blogspot.co.il/2013/07/comparison-of-haredi-education-in.html

[bluke]

So much for Charedi kids not stealing see this ad from Egged http://jewishworker.blogspot.co.il/2013/07/what-does-this-ad-from-egged-say-about.html

[rocky]

"Every Western country has compulsory education! Again, to quote Rabbi Adlerstein: "They uphold the need of a democratic society to assure that children are given both a chance at vocational success as well as share some information... that is meant to bring about some social cohesion." "

That is not true in the State of New York when it comes to schools sponsored by religious institutions. That is how Chaim Levin and many thousands of youngsters like him have been able to leave school (yeshivas) as functional illiterates in secular subjects. I actually checked with the NY Sate Department of Education last year after reading about Chaim Levin and the education he never received. Whatever merits "No Child Left Behind" may have do not apply to Haredi youngsters in New York State, and I suspect in New Jersey.

I have raised this issue in comments in the New York Times and elsewhere, but most Americans, even New Yorkers, don't seem to care whether Jews leave school as functional illiterates in English, math and other secular subjects.

[rocky]

Bluke, your charts do not apply to schools sponsored by religious institutions in NY State. Check with the NY State Department of Education in Albany if you don't believe me. I did last year.

[Bas Melech]

"Turning to the topic of education, Rav Feldman claims that the government has no right to impose an educational curriculum upon the charedi community, and that "nowhere in the world would they act so paternalistically towards a minority."

How absurd! especially for an American educated rabbi who grew up in Baltimore, not the New York ghetto!

@Rocky
Yes, there is a special certification for "church schools" as well. However, I think that they too must teach core subjects like reading, writing, and arithmetic.

Learning math, English, and Hebrew MIGHT indoctrinate secularism, but only if chareidi schools use secular books. The charedim can write their own educational materials (which they do in USA).

Everything is an excuse or lie not based on Torah and reality.

As for military service, I doubt that countries give an automatic exemption to a specific religion. In the US conscientious objector exemptions must be proved. CO status allows for forcing alternative service.

Maybe Rabbi Feldman exhibits signs of aging memory loss or else just lies to prove his points.

[rocky]

Bas Melech: Chaim Levin left his yeshiva with the equivalent of a grade 3 secular education. Feel free to re-read his posts on this web site or at Huffington Post or at his own blog.

[פי האסון]

When does a man become a 'Gadol'? Is it when he grows a beard, or when it turns white? When he starts wearing a homburg or a long kapota? With the number of Yeshivas that exist today, the dean is not necessarily a 'Gadol'. This is a term reserved exclusively for those few that stand out head & shoulders above your average Talmid Chacham. Whilst I've heard of Ner Yisrael, I've never heard of this Feldman, and whilst I'll be the first to acknowledge that I'm not the arbiter, I am willing to argue that this gentleman does not qualify.

I’ve had a swift glance at the transcription of Feldman’s speech, and I’ve not seen such undiluted claptrap for a very long time. He starts off by declaring that we must begin with history, and immediately delves into a world of fiction that bests Mark Twain & George Orwell, with claims that “Soon after the founding of the state, Ben-Gurion went to visit the Chazon Ish to persuade him that religious Jews should be drafted into the Army. Ben-Gurion said that the state could not survive without it. The Chazon Ish countered that the Torah could not survive with it…. the Chazon Ish knew that Torah learning could not flourish, and Gedolim could not develop, if youngsters spent three of their most formative years in the Army.” The meeting between them took place in 1952 and was concerning the national draft for women. The exemption for yeshiva students predates the State of Israel, on March 9, 1948 Israel Galili chief of staff of the Haganah – under instruction from Ben Gurion – exempted the entire Yeshiva student body, approximately 400 students, from compulsory service.

Currently, the entire worldwide Jewish population is circa, 13.3m, whereas on the eve of WWii the worldwide Jewish population was circa, 15.3 million, 9.5m of whom were living in Eastern Europe. In the mid-1930s the total number of Yeshiva students in Poland numbered fewer than 16,000, however in 2010 there were 130,000 registered Yeshiva students in Israel alone.

[Bas Melech]

According to the story I heard about the Chazon Ish and Ben Gurion exempted yeshiva students from military service as long as they learned full time. Ben Gurion likely could have stated that the new state could not exist without Torah learning. As long as a man learned full time, he was exempt from conscription. This resulted in full-time learners for life. This agreement also established a welfare class. I doubt that Ben Gurion thought that his arrangement would have this result.

[rocky]

I have read that Ben Gurion's original exemption affected about 400 Yeshiva students. Who knew that they would multiply so quickly in one lifetime?

[Yochanan Lavie]

This dude Feldman is creepy looking. Any relationship to the late Marty Feldman?

[Hal]

I don't believe that governments should impose education, certainly not in countries boasting of their freedoms. I remember being in the 5th grade thinking if this is a free country why can't I leave this room.

But I also don't think a gov. need give money to people who don't want to work.

[Hal]

Feldman is not a Gadol, not by any stretch. That would be like calling a ball boy a professional baseball player because he hangs out on the field after the Yankees go home.
Now he's not a stupid person, he's not unlearned. To the contrary. But he's very biased, very aggressive, and he practices a warped Torah. He's a product of America and the new charedism. He's the spokesman now because the generation of greats all died. This is what's left. He shouldn't be shooting his mouth off in public every ten seconds. It's doing more harm than good.

[Jeff]

"I don't believe that governments should impose education, certainly not in countries boasting of their freedoms."

Hal, that would prepare them for a life of parasitism. It's unreasonable to expect a developed nation not to have basic guidelines for turning out contributing members of society. It would also be terribly cruel.

[David]

Math I can understand, but English as a "core" subject? Why? This is Israel with Hebrew as its language. What about French or Spanish or Arabic. Is it so important to be able to speak with the American tourists?

[Hal]

Jeff, perhaps it would be acceptable to require basic reading and composition in the native language and math, business, and science/engineering.

But I object to what goes on in America, where they take kids and jam pre-college down their throats for 12 years, teaching no job skills, nothing about personal finance. It's just Thomas Jefferson year after year. Brainwashing essentially. Then you go to college and study Anthropology. Then you go out into the cruel world with college debt and typing skills. It's nearly as bad as what goes on with the charedim.

Fact is young people are robbed and manipulated all over the world, in every society.

[Yochanan Lavie]

English is the international language of business, science, and diplomacy. Even French speakers, to their chagrin, have to learn it. Arabic might be useful, but not Spanish in Israel. They won't be deconstructing Shakespearean sonnets; they'll be learning business English so that they could read a technical manual.

[Jeff]

"Then you go out into the cruel world with college debt and typing skills. It's nearly as bad as what goes on with the charedim."

Hal, I don't think it's as simplistic as all that! That said, I wouldn't object to a restructuring of our educational system.

[(The other) Eli]

David, it's because Israeli text books are crap. Colleges and universities in Israel are beginning to/have begun using American text books and having lectures in English. It's becoming a more important language for Israelis than Hebrew.

[Alter Kocker]

The government still panders to this parasitic class. Shut them up for good. Shutter the yeshivas, and cut off welfare until the so-called Gedolim kvetch for mercy.

You will get further in re-educating this lowest of low class individuals by a show of force. Israel is not playing games, they are playing for survival. The ultra-orthodox are far from understanding this concept.

[Jeff]

"You will get further in re-educating this lowest of low class individuals by a show of force. Israel is not playing games, they are playing for survival. The ultra-orthodox are far from understanding this concept."

I agree. I've become largely convinced that gradual change and compromise are impossible. The only possible change at this point must be revolutionary.

Unfortunately, the Israeli politicians lack the backbone to do what needs to be done.

[HavaMina]

Is he lying, or is he just revealing that he is a histrionic ignoramus? I had, upon reading his comments, assumed the latter. I find this true of a great many "gedolim."

[Chicago Sam]

In Halachic literature, "gedolim," can sometimes mean #2 rather than #1, e.g., an evacuation of the bowels--i.e., a large dump of manure.

One may further deduce from this usage of "gedolim," that either the"Gedolim" refers to large portions of fecal matter, or that the "Gedolim" are really indistinguishable from *hit.

[Hashtin_al_Hakir]

Rabbi Feldman is not on any list of gedoilim. Outside of the Baltimore yeshiva community he is virtually unheard of.