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July 05, 2013

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Robert J. Barron, Attorney-at-Law

@SML-I wouldn't be surprised if some of the firebrands among them are capable of killing;

There is absolutely NO doubt in my mind that if they were told to do so by their Rabbonim, or their Gedolim, or whatever their leaders are called, that the haredim, or the frums, or hasids- they are all the same to me- would in fact pick up either a knife, or a gun, and kill as many people as they were told to do so. I mean...they do EVERYTHING else they are told to do, do they not?

BTW, if you want to read some excellent accounts of when supposedly normal people go man, read "We Wish To Inform You that tomorrow we will be killed with our Families", by Philip Gourevitch (sp?). It's a superb accounting of the Rwandan genocide of 1994. It attempts to explain- as much as anyone can- how supposedly normal people can all of the sudden pick up machetes and start killing people who had been their neighbors, their friends, etc, simply b/c that friend or neighbor was a different tribe.

Again, there's no doubt whatsoever, at least in my mind, that the haredim would do the same thing if told to do so.

Does anyone here disagree?

BillamsAss

Barry, you say "The London modesty squad should have the balls to state that......" they don't even have the balls to identity themselves. The address is c/o, the phone number is an unmanned cell, where you can leave a message and they may return your call and there is no named individual or entity identified other than saying that it is under the auspices of the. .... Anyone contacting the union offices to get further information is stonewalled.

They are all just an ignorant group of self-serving thugs in expensive fur hats trying to justify the 100% premium on meat products bearing their seal of approval.

Dr. Dave

Issur d'oraita (or d'oraisa) is a violation of a commandment explicitly written in the Torah (the five books of Moses)

Jake

A apikorus is not a person who question Charedei doctrine.

Also a proper translation of isur d'orsita would be appropriate.

anuran

The only difference between them and the Mutaween is fewer guns and no arrest authority.

Bas Melech

VoT:

You totally don't understand me. You never clearly read what I write. First, I respect Jews. A Jew is a Jew is a Jew is how I was raised. The MOs have just as much kedusha as charedim.

What I disagree with is charedim imposing their way of life and interpretation on the rest of us.

You'll have more understanding if you read the post about Rabbi Jonathan Sacks.

If you reply, I won't be able to respond until after Shabbos.

Voice of Truth

@ bas melech
I guess all they taught you registered except the ahavas Yosroel part. As is evident by your constant bashing of Jews that don't conform to your way of thinking
Just out of curiosity how old are you. Because for the last few thousand years of Judaism it is very rare to find one universal opinion amd decision in almost any aspect of Jewish religion and Halacha (ie; gemorah, mishnayis, rishonim, achronim....)

ruthie

jancsi,
i'm so sorry that happened to you

jancsibacsi

Bas Melech --I was raised like them and i see who they really are a bunch od megalomaniacs who are drunk with their imagined power,the most piuos in our town as a child in eurpoe our belove moel and shohet who was naturally a chassid i never everg forget on tisha beav he was screaming crying sitting on the floor so piuos, you would never even imagine he is a monster inside he molested me at the age of 10 in the mikva this is who they really really are monsters clothed in holy garb.

Bas Melech

Ruthie,
A hug to you too. Sometimes I don't comment, because you already wrote what I wanted to say. Have a Good Shabbos. Try to ignore your neighbors misinterpretation of Torah. I know it's hard to remain calm.

S M L

This story forms an interesting counterpart to any one of the many having to do with the recent displacement of the Islamist regime in Egypt. The commenters on the Times' coverage frequently reference Islamists' apparent wish to drag their societies back to the 700's by banning just about anything that's remotely modernistic and by killing those who resist.The Haredim are pretty much the same though at least up to now not overtly murderous. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the firebrands among them are capable of killing; they simply lack experience and suitable weaponry and perhaps lack the sang-froid to kill a person face to face - hence there was the firebombing in New Square and not a shooting or a stabbing. Give them time, though...

Abracadabra

Sarek - No it's not similar, it's exactly the same thing. And every fundamental group that can't handle logical and rational questions does this social "shunning" and ostracizing of any member who questions the doctrine.

You can even look all the way back to Korach who questioned and was made into an example. Anyone else care to question authority now? Off with their heads! Or just excommunicate them. No difference. Either way we don't have to answer their silly, rational or logical questions, and the masses wont start calling the Emperor's Clothes naked, and we get to keep our positions of power.

Abracadabra

Barry - How true!

ruthie

bas melech,

thank you and a warm hug to you.

Sarek

Is this similar to "shunning" by the Amish or discommendation by the Klingons?

Barry

It is being disingenuous to state that the Halacha requires that 'you should refrain for associating or have any contact whatsoever' with an apikorsim and minim.

The London modesty squad should have the balls to state that the actual halacha demands that apikorsim and minim be publicly beheaded with a sword in a like manner to that unfortunately British soldier murdered by salafists just last month and just 10 miles away.

Bas Melech

Also, there was no such thing as more than one correct rabbinical opinion or decision.

Bas Melech

jansci-
It is nothing new. It has been said for a long time.

Religious Jews raised like Ruthie and me learned ahavas yisroel and to think, question, and not blindly follow.

Only after affiliating with Jews thought to be more religious did I learn that my past religious upbringing was called apikorusis. The "more" religious taught listen to the infallible rabbi-leaders, refrain from secular knowledge, repudiate any one and any ideas not emanating from the rabbis, and follow blindly without quesioning.

jancsibacsi

The champions of apikorses are lecturing others about apikorses this is a first.

rebitzman - $101 to read my posts

Apikorsos?

WoolSilkCotton; I must be seen to be believed

There must be other blogs like FM out there, including some based in the UK.

Account Deleted

Busy news day ... keep it up Shmarya!

Well, they are consistent in their theology. Follow the leader, even if he guides you off a cliff, If you want to eat whale meat in a tent with Talmudic scholars in Heaven.

Where do I sign up!

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