« Rubashkin Son Says Family Was Shocked Father Was Convicted, Hold's Up Felon Father As Role Model For All Jews | Main | Lapid Wants Haredim To Fill Open Construction Jobs »

July 05, 2013

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Chicago Sam

Anyone who listens to these charlatans is a fool. Haredi Orthodoxy and Hasidim are very poor role models for any kind of thinking Jew to emulate themselves after. We have romanticized these people and it is only because of the Internet, we can now see them for the people they are--and not the people they pretend to be. "The truth shall set you free."

Kudos to Failedmessiah!

NeverFrum

"In a democratic society where one has rights, you feel that only hareidim do not have rights, if a haredi goes to jail for refusing army service then he should get a special punishment and take away his religious rights? Is that a democracy?"

I actually think that anyone (in Israel and anywhere else) should lose all rights to practice their religion in jail. You want kosher food...then let you family bring it to you in jail everyday, no country should pay for this....you want to have time to daven each morning, get up one hour early and do it in your cell before work detail. The point at which you end up in jail, you have done something to impede the rights of other law abiding people (in this cash the right to live in a properly defended country) and you should lose the rights living in a free society affords you. This is especially true of all of those "frum" assholes in upstate new york prisons who probably have it better than a lot of free people.

Alter Kocker

You know what Yechiel Zilber: Fuck you, you aint no jew and neither is Porush and his chazzer sons. These people make us ashamed. We have been a people lauded and vilified throughout the world. While many lands accept us, many lands have systematically exterminated us. Here is passion for you; I'd rather the Haredim in eretz yisroel remember what the fuck we all went through to be able to have a land to DEFEND, you dumb fuck! Put down the Torah scroll and goddamn pick up the rifle. Millions of arabs laugh at you because when they overrun Israel, you will be the first to take one between the eyes. Blood will run over the Torah. You want Torah, defend Torah. Ask your grandfathers' generation what they did in Israel, when the world watched every surrounding nation at the behest of our exterminators that were on the run at the time inflamed arabic hatred against us and attempted once again to wipe us from the face of the earth. Hashem gave us guts, iron-will, and let us take up arms to push them back. Our Haredi brothers would sooner sit all day and re-read passages read millions of times instead of picking up a rifle and standing a post. So to our bearded brothers, I say this: COWARDS! When Hashem has a little visit with you after you go to your great reward, will he say: you read a lot of Torah, but why did you not defend your fellow Jew. Will you say because I was too busy reading the Torah and learning about other fights in our history, instead of taking up the fight. IGNORANT COWARDS.

Porush should not just be removed from Knesset, he should be tried and convicted of treason. His sentence? Life in front of a firing squad.

Yosef ben Matitya

Read the same article as you, does not mention him encouraging his sons to do anything. He stated what his sons will decide on their own.
Yechiel Zilber, your defense is very noble. nevertheless, the man is clearly proud of his offsprings flouting the law. don't u think?

Yechiel Zilber

I wish to point out some flaws and clear biases in some of the comments:

"Pard: That said, laws are enacted and must be enforced. If they chose prison, good deal for all as long as it is a work detail and not just confinement."

A crime is a crime, why should they need to do work, perhaps a thief should do work as well? why just those who commit the crime of being haredi?

----

"Alter Kacker: If you are ultra-orthodox and refuse military service, your prison sentence must be harsh. You have to know that there will be no minyan, payess, black suits, davening, beards, kippot, torah learning, etc. There will be hard labor, secular education, punishment for disobedience, food meant merely to keep one from starvation. In short the sons will come out completely changed. The objective here is to let the Haredim, Hasids, Bobovers, and every other division of the cult know that in refusal of service, there will be the complete loss of the cult member."

It seems from your comment that you have something against their culture, you are not worried about "sharing the burden" you just want to get rid of their cult behaviors thru army service.

In a democratic society where one has rights, you feel that only hareidim do not have rights, if a haredi goes to jail for refusing army service then he should get a special punishment and take away his religious rights? Is that a democracy?

-------

"Yochanan Lavie: Here is a Knesset member, i.e. a lawmaker, proudly saying he will encourage his sons to flout the law"

Read the same article as you, does not mention him encouraging his sons to do anything. He stated what his sons will decide on their own.


-------

"jancsibacsi: I think this guy porush should be lobotomized with his large yarmulk on his head like a forskin covering his shmeckle head,one solution will solve all israelis problems with hteese fools stop the entitlements altoghether no money fopr nothing i guarantee you they will come to their senses in no time"

Not much to comment on your clear hate of hareidim and your call to harm them physically

-------

"rocky; At the rate the Haredi are birthing babies (vs. the non-Haredi Jewish population), they will eyventually make up a majority of Israel's Jewish population. The sooner the Israeli government cracks down on them the better."

Clear bigotry in your comment, you have a problem with hareidim, you feel they will outnumber you soon and want to do something to 'stop' it. The issue you have is not sharing the burden or anything, it is just too much hareidim.

----


Friar Yid

"they listen to the words of their hasidic rebbes, not the words of the Knesset."

Which in itself is funny, since Porush is from a Yeshivish family. His father and grandfather attended Yeshiva Etz Chaim in Jerusalem and he is a direct descendant of the Lithuanian Rav Shlomo Zalman Porush, which means he is also the cousin of R. Shmuel Auerbach, R. Shteinman's main rival for control of the Degel camp.

How Meir and his father wound up working for Agudah (or rather, convinced the Hasidic sects to let them serve as their representatives) remains a mystery to me.

Yosef ben Matitya

Member of Knesset Rabbi Meir Porush of the Ashkenazi haredi UTJ .. tells the Knesset ... they listen to the words of their hasidic rebbes, not the words of the Knesset.


what a wonderful legislator.
interesting to note that he is not known to decline to take a salary.

rocky

At the rate the Haredi are birthing babies (vs. the non-Haredi Jewish population), they will eventually make up a majority of Israel's Jewish population. The sooner the Israeli government cracks down on them the better.

Alter Kocker

I think the government needs to send a clear message that a cult will not rule their society. If I am not mistaken Halacha states that the jewish people MUST follow the law of the land. During the First World War, my grandfather, an orthodox jew, who had fled Lithuania to England was conscripted into the British Army. He carried a gun, sat in trenches in France. He wore a British uniform. He davened on Shabbat. He said that in the trench as they davened, they said kaddish, and they heard the responsive amen coming from the German trench. There were Jews on both sides. We, as jews have proud histories of serving in every land that we have been part. In 1948, we established our own land. The so-called religious among us, now spit on that proud tradition.

On that basis, if R. Porush's sons see fit to refuse their induction, then the Israeli citizenry reserve the right to have them serve in another capacity. All rights and freedoms should be lost upon incarceration for this violation of law.

Let Porush know that they may not come out of imprisonment same as they went in.

jancsibacsi

I think this guy porush should be lobotomized with his large yarmulk on his head like a forskin covering his shmeckle head,one solution will solve all israelis problems with hteese fools stop the entitlements altoghether no money fopr nothing i guarantee you they will come to their senses in no time.

Barry

Pard:

"I wish the reasonable clear thinking civil MK would just stop trying to win the hearts and minds of the Charedim.."

When it comes to Charedim, once you have them by their balls, their hearts and minds will follow.

Account Deleted

AK

I would approach it with less "passion" since there will be backlash to infringement upon the "civil rights" of the criminals.

There is no need to deny them their observance in the slammer, but the incarcerated Charedim should replace all the illegal Arab labor force currently performing critical non-taxpaying services in the State (ever see an Israeli construction site?).

If I were an MK, I would explain how much I admire the piety and commitment of our Charedi Brothers, and how important they are to our society, yet due to impossible welfare commitments, and the need to enforce a civil society with rule of law, those who refuse to enlist will unfortunately be jailed. This hurts us more than it hurts you.

Just get on with it, sans the passion.

Yochanan Lavie

Here is a Knesset member, i.e. a lawmaker, proudly saying he will encourage his sons to flout the law. With his soupbowl yarmulke perched on his forehead and his flowing Charlton Heston Moses beard, he looks holier than thou. He should be stripped of his position, along with Ahmed Tibi and other traitors from within.

Alter Kocker

Pard:
I agree with you. The welfare state which is now waning must enforce the laws. In keeping with that sentiment, I believe that both of R. Porush's sons should be arrested. But more so, I believe an example must be made.

If you are ultra-orthodox and refuse military service, your prison sentence must be harsh. You have to know that there will be no minyan, payess, black suits, davening, beards, kippot, torah learning, etc. There will be hard labor, secular education, punishment for disobedience, food meant merely to keep one from starvation. In short the sons will come out completely changed. The objective here is to let the Haredim, Hasids, Bobovers, and every other division of the cult know that in refusal of service, there will be the complete loss of the cult member.

Account Deleted

No news here. The Black Hat crowd are not participants in the civil society. They march to the beat of their own drum. So what? Let them do as they wish. Everyone should do as they wish in a free society!

That said, laws are enacted and must be enforced. If they chose prison, good deal for all as long as it is a work detail and not just confinement.

The socialist welfare state created these folk (black hats), they did not have quite the sense of entitlement pre-WW2.

I wish the reasonable clear thinking civil MK would just stop trying to win the hearts and minds of the Charedim and just enact a new post welfare society and let people make their choices.

It's really just about the math, stop trying to win the moral argument, it cannot be done.

The comments to this entry are closed.

Failed messiah was established and run in 2004 by Mr. Shmarya (Scott)Rosenberg. The site was acquired by Diversified Holdings, Feb 2016.
.
We thank Mr. Rosenberg for his efforts on behalf of the Jewish Community

.

Comment Rules

  1. No anonymous comments.
  2. Use only one name or alias and stick with that.
  3. Do not use anyone else's name or alias.
  4. Do not sockpuppet.
  5. Try to argue using facts and logic.
  6. Do not lie.
  7. No name-calling, please.
  8. Do not post entire articles or long article excerpts.
***Violation of these rules may lead to the violator's comments being edited or his future comments being banned.***

Search this site with Google:

6a00d83451b71f69e201b8d1656462970c-250wi

FailedMessiah.com in the Media