Video: Haredi Measles Outbreak Spreads, Two Miscarriages, Severe Pneumonia Reported

The outbreak, which is contained to haredi neighborhoods in NYC (and haredi communities in London and upstate New York), has already caused two miscarriages and several cases of severe pneumonia. The outbreak started in and is largely transmitted by haredi families who have refused to vaccinate their children.

 

Related articles

Haredi Measles Outbreak Dramatically Worsens

Brooklyn Haredi Measles Outbreak Continues, Health Department Now Urges Vaccination For All Haredi Children 6 Months Old Or Older

Alert: Chickenpox Epidemic In UK Haredi Community, Measles Outbreak In Haredi Brooklyn

Yeshiva Student Died Because Others Snitched On Leading Haredi Rabbi, Rosh Yeshiva Says

NYC Haredi Measles Outbreak Spreads To Rockland County

Video: NYC Mayoral Democratic Candidates On Permitting Dangerous Haredi Circumcision Rite

Quinn Tells Other NYC Mayoral Candidates To Stop "Pandering" To Haredim Over Circumcision

As Candidates Continue To Pander For Haredi Bloc Votes, Two Stand Separate And Alone

Comments

[Jeff]

"The outbreak started in and is largely transmitted by haredi families who have refused to vaccinate their children."

Don't be ridiculous. It's cause by Bais Yakov girls wearing skirts above their ankles.

[yeshiva bachur]

Yes that right Shmarya none of us Chreidim not one vaccinates his Children none oh by the way were all child molesters too. Shmarya get out of your dusty filthy basement and stop being such a bitter troll!!!!1

[jancsibacsi]

yeshiva bachur--By the way you forgot to mention that youre also mentally disturbed,go back to youre yeshiva and take up space there for you will amount to nothing in life as you proudly show it here.

[yeshiva bachur]

jancsibacsi- judging from your other posts your also just a bitter self hating jew (if your a Jew)

[yeshiva bachur]

Then again It apears that most commentaters on this blog are bitter self hating Jews. ( now people are going to call me names and insult me and chareidim in general plus make fun of my spelling because chareidim are illiterate write? even though I am a graduate of a major modren orthodox high school let the Circus begin!!!!!)

[Account Deleted]

Why are you here yeshiva bachur? Proofread what you write or is it right.

[jancsibacsi]

yeshiva bachur--Talking about self hating jew there is no one as self hating and bitter then you and youre holier then thou bozos who think they are infallible,now go and take up space in youre farshtinkener yeshiva.

[Bob Greene]

apart from the spelling war between janc and yb, the mmr vaccine in itself has become questionable because of side effects related to it. Heard on a talk show so I do not have any links but anyone that is interested could probably find info. on the net.

[Shmarya Rosenberg]

Oh, please. Are you really this stupid?

The vaccine is safe and ALLEGATIONS made by QUACKS to the contrary were decisively proven false.

What is questionable here is your mind.

[Bob Greene]

So tell that to NPR.

[Yochanan Lavie]

I suspect that a lot of the conspiracy theories about vaccines originated in the Muddle East (pun intentional). Jews like Salk and Sabin pioneered many vaccines, and paranoid antisemites claim therefore that there is a Zionist conspiracy to infect gentile babies via vaccines. The chareidim will believe anything bad about the "Zionists," so they will find such theories credible.

[yeshiva bachur]

The truth is I agree with you jancsibacsi ...WE ARE MOST CERTAINLY HOLIER THAN YOU
אוי לך מיום הדין

[yeshiva bachur]

jancsibacsi I agree with you totaly WE ARE HOLIER THAN YOU!!!

[Bob Greene]

YL The NPR ran an hour long talk show on the dangers of the MMR vaccine. Even though as Shmarya points out that the vaccine is considered safe and the study that linked it to autism was debunked. The point of fact is is that there still is controversy surrounding the vaccine.

[Yochanan Lavie]

BG: That's as may be, but nevertheless many nutty conspiracy theories are out there surrounding vaccination. And conspiracy theories almost always end up pointing to the Eternal Jew (or his PC euphemism: "Zionist").

[Bob Greene]

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/06/25/mmr-vaccine-caused-autism.aspx

The health risks associated with the MMR vaccine has been in the news for about 15 years, and we're undoubtedly going to see a re-emergence of questions about this vaccine in the coming days and weeks because the Italian health ministry recently conceded that the MMR vaccine caused autism in a now nine-year-old boy, who suffered brain inflammation and permanent brain damage after he was vaccinated.

Italian Court Rules MMR Vaccine Caused Autism

Valentino Bocca was given an MMR shot in 2004, at the age of 15 months. According to his parents, the change in his behavior was immediate. That same night he refused to eat, and he developed diarrhea during the night. It quickly went downhill from there. Within days he was no longer able to put a spoon to his mouth, and he spent nights crying in pain. His parents immediately suspected the vaccination, but were told this was "impossible." Valentino progressively regressed, and received the diagnosis of autism a year later.

In the final analysis, the Italian Health Ministry disagreed with the initial conclusion of the pediatrician, conceding that the vaccine was at fault.

As a result, a court in Rimini, Italy recently awarded the Bocca family a 15-year annuity totaling 174,000 Euros (just under $220,000), plus reimbursement for court costs, ruling that Valentino "has been damaged by irreversible complications due to vaccination (prophylaxis trivalent MMR)i." According to a featured article in the UK newspaper, The Independentii, about 100 similar cases are now being examined by Italian lawyers, and more cases may be brought to court.

The health risks associated with the MMR vaccine has been in the news for about 15 years, and we're undoubtedly going to see a re-emergence of questions about this vaccine in the coming days and weeks because the Italian health ministry recently conceded that the MMR vaccine caused autism in a now nine-year-old boy, who suffered brain inflammation and permanent brain damage after he was vaccinated.

Italian Court Rules MMR Vaccine Caused Autism

Valentino Bocca was given an MMR shot in 2004, at the age of 15 months. According to his parents, the change in his behavior was immediate. That same night he refused to eat, and he developed diarrhea during the night. It quickly went downhill from there. Within days he was no longer able to put a spoon to his mouth, and he spent nights crying in pain. His parents immediately suspected the vaccination, but were told this was "impossible." Valentino progressively regressed, and received the diagnosis of autism a year later.

In the final analysis, the Italian Health Ministry disagreed with the initial conclusion of the pediatrician, conceding that the vaccine was at fault.

As a result, a court in Rimini, Italy recently awarded the Bocca family a 15-year annuity totaling 174,000 Euros (just under $220,000), plus reimbursement for court costs, ruling that Valentino "has been damaged by irreversible complications due to vaccination (prophylaxis trivalent MMR)i." According to a featured article in the UK newspaper, The Independentii, about 100 similar cases are now being examined by Italian lawyers, and more cases may be brought to court.

[Jeff]

"even though I am a graduate of a major modren orthodox high school let the Circus begin"

If that is the case, you are an example of the Haredization of Modern Orthodoxy - which is very sad.

[Jeff]

"That's as may be, but nevertheless many nutty conspiracy theories are out there surrounding vaccination. And conspiracy theories almost always end up pointing to the Eternal Jew (or his PC euphemism: "Zionist")."

Fortunately, no one has yet discovered the nano-trackers we put in the vaccines.

[Bob Greene]

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/06/25/mmr-vaccine-caused-autism.aspx

[Just Curious]

BG -

Among educated, informed people, there is absolutely no controversy surrounding the safety of the MMR vaccine, regardless of what you heard on your "talk show".

The only people who continue to push that "anti-vax" agenda are a lunatic fringe of dangerous conspiracy theorists who endanger their children (and ours) with their ignorant and irresponsible behaviors.

If you are able, I would suggest that you actually look into the science pertaining to the MMR vaccine (which overwhelmingly supports the vaccine's safety and efficacy), rather than blindly believing what you heard on some silly radio station.

[Bob Greene]

and the Italian Courts

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/06/25/mmr-vaccine-caused-autism.aspx

[Jeff]

That said, while I don't think vaccines are inherently dangerous, I do wonder about the wisdom of combining all of them into one dose. There's been some suggestion that if there is a causal connection between autism and the vaccines, it may be due to this. Perhaps it's too much of a shock to the immune system of some children.

Although the data hasn't borne out a connection, I think that when a parent says, "He was fine before the vaccine, then within hours, the light went out of his eyes. He went away, and he never came back", we can't ignore it merely because it's anecdotal.

The problem is that the anti-vax movement has become yet another stronghold of lunatic conspiracy theorists.

Perhaps we should go back to administering them individually for a while and see if the incidence of autism decreases. Perhaps WSC has an opinion about this.

[Alter Kocker]

If I hear one more admonition against immunization backed by a quote from Mercola, I will absolutely scream. Mercola is a quack.
He has been outed by "Quackwatch" a medical watchdog site. He spouts his drivel and then tries to sell his supplements and foodstuffs.

I have heard additionally from quacks in my city, especially orthodox ones who claim that vaccines are "not kosher". If the ultra-orthodox wish to march in step back to the stone age, then please, let them leave all areas of civilization. If they wish to spread disease, then let them do it to their hearts' content. Well away from the rest of humanity.

[Just Curious]

Oy, BG, it appears you could use some education in distinguishing between actual science and quack pseudoscience.

This Dr. Mercola whose website you cite is nothing more than an internet snake-oil salesman who cons ignorant people into believing his quackery in order to sell them his alternative "remedies".

Here is an old article on his tactics from Business Week:

http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2006-05-22/old-time-sales-tricks-on-the-net

Particularly telling is the fact that Mercola's "anti-vax" article to which you directed us includes an interview w/ disgraced former researcher Andrew Wakefield--the darling of the loony "anti-vax" movement--who is now known to have FALSIFIED his research pertaining to the MMR vaccine.

[Just Curious]

"and the Italian Courts

...

Posted by: Bob Greene | June 14, 2013 at 09:15 AM"

Additionally, in the interest of completeness, it should be noted that scientific conclusions are not made by courts (Italian or otherwise).

As Natan Slifkin would ably explain to you, science is not done by fiat, like the pronouncements of some chareidi "gadol".

Briefly, scientific conclusions are reached by subjecting hypotheses to carefully-designed experimental investigation, whose results may verify or disprove the hypothesis. The results of such experiments should be peer-reviewed and reproducible, before they are accepted as legitimate.

"Anti-vax" pseudoscience meets none of these criteria.

[Bas Melech]

BG-

I agree with you about the dangers of MMR vaccine. Dr. Mercola is very respected in the field of holistic health and documents his findings.

However, chareidim don't base their choice not to vaccinate on scientific research. They refuse to do it because the rebbe tells them not to. They are the ones who say vaccines are an anti-Jewish plot and assert that disease is divine punishment.

BTW most frum communities like Lakewood do vaccinate children.

BG,
We are not self-hating Jews. Many of us are bitter for being duped by and being pawns of people we thought were tzadikim.
Torah teaches us to fight injustices. Yet, the frum community practices child abuse, protects the perpetrators, and condemn those who report it to the police. Leaders use all means of coercion to keep their followers in line. By publicizing corruption and injustices, we display LOVE for our fellow Jews. We are commanded to let them know of them and of dangers in their path.

BG, if you disagree, you are a mindless automaton, as jansci would say.

I don't know your age. Many of us our senior citizen (or almost). We have witnessed and experienced what happens in frum communities. We cannot be silent.

[Yoni]

Anyone who discourages peopple from getting the MMR vaccine, whether his name is Wakefield, Mercola, Bob Greene or some Rebbe is putting the lives of children at risk. They should really think about that. They bear responsibility for all of these horrible cases.

Listen to the experts!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine_controversy

[WoolSilkCotton; I must be seen to be believed]

Vaccines are safe, as safe as anything can be in the medical world.
MMR is safe. There is nothing wrong with combining the 3 (measles, mumps, rubella).
Vaccines should be given according to the schedule you can find on the NIH website. If your child missed getting some vaccines at the proper time, maybe it's not smart to make up ten vaccines in one visit to the doctor. Everyone feels ill after multiple vaccines in one day. Mercury is no longer used as a preservative in vaccines; it is a nonissue, if it ever was an issue.
There are many kinds of autism. There are no answers as to what causes autism.
The anti vaccine crowd is the same as the anti- fluoridation crowd of 30 years ago. Fools who think they can outsmart their doctor, and who love conspiracy theories, be it against Big Pharma, Big Government, or the Jew Zionists are looking to give us AIDS, autism, etc. Same idiots spouting the same shit; only the names, date, and conspiracy details change.

[Just Curious]

Bas Melech -

Saying that you "agree" about the "dangers" of the MMR vaccine is like saying you "agree" that the sun revolves around the earth. Just as scientific investigation has roundly disproven the latter, so too scientific investigation has demonstrated that the MMR vaccine is safe and efficacious.

The sadly uninformed beliefs/opinions of folks like you and BG do not change that scientific fact (any more than such beliefs would render the solar system any less heliocentric).

[Just Curious]

Also, Bas Melech, it should be noted that there is no "field" of "holistic health". There is no legitimate university or graduate program in the world that confers a degree in such a "field".

Any shlemiel can hang out a shingle (or put up a website) and call himself a a practitioner (or "expert", for that matter) of "holistic" (or "alternative", or "homeopathic", or "naturopathic", or whatever marketing term is in vogue) health.

You claim that Dr. Mercola "documents his findings". I would like to know precisely what "findings" these are, given that Mercola is not a researcher or scientist of any kind. He is simply a snake-oil salesman with a website (like so many others).

And where exactly are these findings documented? Are they published in peer-reviewed medical journals? Or just posted on his own website, right beside the "remedies" he hawks?

Unfortunately, the only people among whom Dr. Mercola is "very respected" are those too ignorant (or uneducated) to know better.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Fortunately, no one has yet discovered the nano-trackers we put in the vaccines.

Posted by: Jeff | June 14, 2013 at 09:08 AM

Shush, I thought we agreed to maintain internet silence.

[Jeff]

Oh, dammit!

[Devorah]

"Then again It apears that most commentaters on this blog are bitter self hating Jews. ( now people are going to call me names and insult me and chareidim in general plus make fun of my spelling because chareidim are illiterate write? even though I am a graduate of a major modren orthodox high school let the Circus begin!!!!!)"

Yeshiva Bachur, you claim you are a graduate of a major modern orthodox high school? Here are a few words you misspelled:

commentaters

It (no need to capitalize in the middle of a sentence.)
Now (should be capitalized since it is the first word of a sentence.)
write (should be right.)
Even (should be capitalized.)
Modren is not a word.

These are third grade words. What do your schools teach, anyhow?

[Hal]

I'm not a self-hating Jew. I don't hate myself. I just hate....

[S M L]

Enough of this nonsense, people. I'm speaking here to the rational ones among you; conspiracy theorists need not read further. Regardless of what some Italian court decided to do or anything else the fact remains that MMR vaccination's benefit-to-risk ratio is extremely high and nobody has proven that it causes autism or anything else. There are occasional - very occasional adverse reactions to it, as with any biological preparation. Here's a link to the relevant information on the CDC website:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaccines/mmr/mmr.html

The CDC is a highly reputable organization. Well respected. Noncommercial. They are not out to do anything but fight disease and provide the best evidence-based advice possible. The American Academy of Pediatrics takes the same position re: MMR. It's foolish and ignorant to postulate that these organizations are in bed with vaccine manufacturers and don't care about outcomes.

Measles is dangerous during pregnancy - and there are already miscarriages on record due to it in Haredi Brooklyn. If this outbreak really gets rolling there will be enormous misery among the Haredim who have refused to vaccinate their kids and nobody but their leaders and themselves are to blame. Let's pray that nothing worse - like polio - gets a foothold among them. That would truly prove tragic. Fortunately there is none at present in the US, or just about none - because of vaccination. Many of you are too young to remember anything about polio outbreaks. Read a little. Very scary, very sad.

[WoolSilkCotton; I must be seen to be believed]

Just Curious, SML, thanks for the excellent posts.

[dh]

Pssst.... it's all a vast German conspiracy. Get it? Germ; German? Plus, then they went and invented homeopathy. And I don't think anyone would argue that homeopathy has not succeeded in there being one less germ in all the world.

There. I've said it. But, do NOT mention the war!

[S M L]

WSC: Thanks.

FYI, showing the efficacy of vaccination is this excerpt also from the CDC. There has been NO polio in the US since 1979. There should be no measles either. The rebbeim who inveigh against vaccination may not be criminally responsible but they are morally responsible and no amount of posturing by their apologists can possibly negate that: to the extent that they are looked up to they have a responsibility to give sound advice. Maybe they should take the attitude that those who developed these vaccines were divinely inspired and that this is God's way of working his will. Doesn't matter what twist of 'logic' they use; these kids should be protected, either against viruses or against their elders.

Here's the quote and the link.

http://www.cdc.gov/Features/PolioFacts/

"Polio, or poliomyelitis, is an infectious viral disease that can strike at any age and affects a person's nervous system. In the late 1940s to the early 1950s, polio crippled an average of more than 35,000 people in the United States each year; it was one of the most feared diseases of the twentieth century. Thanks to the polio vaccine, dedicated health care professionals, and parents who vaccinate their children on schedule, polio has been eliminated in this country for more than 30 years.

It is crucial to maintain the success rate of U.S. vaccination efforts since the disease still exists in some parts of the world. People most at risk are those who never had polio vaccine, those who never received all the recommended vaccine doses, and those traveling to areas that could put them at risk for getting polio."

[Robert J. Barron, Attorney-at-Law]

SML, what's really sad is that the haredi children- innocent and defenseless- will pay the price for their parents' ignorance. And then their parents will say, "Oh, this was punishment from God...we didn't pray enough".

[S M L]

Robert J:

Punishment by God of whom? Toddlers? Pregnant 19 year olds? Innocents all, no doubt; the young women and children are certainly innocents. What kind of God would do that? It's all twisted interpretation and twisted logic. Is this the God who looks out for his people or a God who afflicts the leaders of some of his people with moral blindness and ignorance then has the little ones pay the price? if the latter then who needs such a God in his/her life? I certainly don't. Ignore your own health but don't inflict damage on your children. It's all so horribly wrong, the whole cult thing whether among Haredim or among whichever other extreme religious group you might care to discuss - fundamentalist Christians, tribal Muslims in Pakiistan or Nigeria. All the same. All wrong. They fed the Kool-Aid to the children at Jonestown in their blind insanity.

Whenever I read about children suffering harm at the hands of their caregivers it makes me furious. Say what anyone will there is NO excuse for it under the sun. None at all.

[JessicaR]

Regarding the safety of vaccines:

I am no statistician, but my understanding is that many statistical methods cannot detect problems if a treatment affects a *small* number of people negatively. Therefore, both sides in this dispute may have truth on their side: yes, studies do show that vaccines are safe and the possibility exists that a small number of people may have catastrophic side effects that the studies don't pick up.

I would also add that there is a possibility of error in these studies. Those of us who are old enough may remember a study on Agent Orange that was supposedly thorough and carefully done. This study showed that Agent Orange was harmless. It turned out later that the sample selection was flawed and that the chemical is in fact harmful.

Something similar may be going on with vaccines. If you read the studies carefully, you will notice something: they *never* compare totally unvaccinated persons with vaccinated persons. Rather, they do epidemiological studies comparing people who have fewer vaccinations (not NO vaccinations)with people who have more vaccinations.

When researchers compare, let's say, Christian Scientists who have never been vaccinated with Christian Scientists who have, I will be more convinced of vaccine safety.

We also need to remember that vaccine studies are not randomized and double-blind, which is the gold standard of scientific research. Such studies would be considered unethical in this case. Therefore, the reliability of the conclusions drawn from these epidemiological studies is somewhat limited.

[WoolSilkCotton; I must be seen to be believed]

Jessica, you are not a statistician. Speak to a statistician who deals with medical research in order to clarify your understanding of methodology, particularly when looking for rare complications.
You are also not a physician or nurse practitioner who has seen some of the devastating effects of these preventable contagious diseases.

No vaccine is totally harmless. Every disease is potentially very harmful. All medical decisions are risk vs. benefit. Measles in an otherwise healthy child may be no big deal, but what if that child isn't one of those usual cases? What if that child spreads it to an elderly person, a compromised baby, a pregnant woman, etc?

When I'm not sure what to do or what to think on one of the major issues of the day, I look at the overall picture of who is taking what side. Crackpots, weirdos, and antediluvian religious fanatics are against vaccines. Are those people always wrong? No. Are they seldom right? Yes.

[rebitzman - $101 to read my posts]

So you all think the vaccine is dangerous?

How is the disease working out for you?

[WoolSilkCotton; I must be seen to be believed]

Jessica, here's the study you're looking for:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWCsEWo0Gks

[Bob Greene]

sml
quoting the same site cdc.gov you brought there are some people that should not get the MMR vaccine.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/vis/downloads/vis-mmr.pdf

Anyone
who
has
ever
had
a
life-threatening
allergic
reaction to the antibiotic neomycin, or any other
component
of
MMR
vaccine,
should
not
get
the
vaccine. Tell your doctor if you have any severe
allergies.
•
Anyone
who
had
a
life-threatening
allergic
reaction
to
a
previous
dose
of
MMR
or
MMRV
vaccine
should not get another dose.
•
Some
people
who
are
sick
at
the
time
the
shot
is
scheduled may be advised to wait until they recover
before
getting
MMR
vaccine.
•
Pregnant
women
should
not
get
MMR
vaccine.
Pregnant
women
who
need
the
vaccine
should
wait
until after giving birth. Women should avoid getting
pregnant
for
4
weeks
after
vaccination
with
MMR
vaccin

p.s. I am not advocating not giving the vaccine to most people. The benefits outweigh the risks. However in some cases it is contraindicated and is likely to cause allergic reactions etc. It is worthwhile for any responsible parent to know what the signs of a reaction would be so that they would seek immediate medical attention if necessary. Also, it is good to wait for half an hour and have your child observed by an expert to see how he she responds.
Also, it is beyond me why people here can't discuss this topic (and other topics)rationally without name-calling and overly emotional responses when someone presents an alternative point of view.

[Bob Greene]

Jessica, sms wsc

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/vis/downloads/vis-mmr.pdf

[Shmarya Rosenberg]

What's the point, Bob?

What are you attempting to say? More of your previous BS?

[Shmarya Rosenberg]

Or does thinking completely elude you?

[Bob Greene]

Shmarya, the point is that not everyone should get the vaccine. Most people should but there are some people that shouldn't. Why are you so belligerent when someone brings a different opinion. Did you read the article? It is important for anyone giving their children vaccines to know the dangers also. Do you consider the cdc, a gov. agency to be BS. Yes, it is sad that children are not getting vaccines that they should be getting. You made a good point. It is also sad that people think the world is black and white. One needs to get as informed as possible and make an intelligent decision. ie the people that are high risk from the vaccines are better off without them. Most people are not high risk and should get vaccinated.

[Shmarya Rosenberg]

Please.

Process, Bob: ***ALL*** meds, all vaccines, all treatments carry some risk. Can you grasp that?

As WSC pointed out above, when that risk is small and the benefit is high, the treatment, med or vaccine is given UNLESS THERE IS A SPECIFIC INDICATION NOT TO.

The CDC information sheet you linked to identifies those SPECIFIC INDICATIONS for the MMR vaccine.

99.9% of people DO NOT HAVE THOSE SPECIFIC INDICATIONS.

Do you know that aspirin and Tylenol and Advil all have specific counter indications, as well?

So does every medicine you take.

So do most herbs, for that matter.

Why am I belligerent?

Because lives are put at risk by your stupidity, Bob, that's why.

Weren't the two miscarriages and the pneumonias enough for you?

[S M L]

Shmarya: You've got that exactly right.

It's also the case that when the vast majority of a population is immunized - it's referred to as 'herd immunity' - it's less likely that the disease in question will be transmitted to the unimmunized among them. On the other hand when a major proportion of a tight-knit population is not immunized then disease is more readily spread. Assuming that the individual is not one of those who should not be receiving the vaccine the risk of illness as a result of being given MMR is infinitesimally small.

The risk of not being immunized to a child out in the non-Haredi world is small because most of those around have been immunized and are not likely to be carrying the disease. The risk to that same child in a synagogue on Shabbat in Boro Park is appreciable. Those are facts, Bob and Jessica and others, like them or not. I refer you once again to the excerpt and the link I posted about polio earlier today. When I was a child there was fear - real fear - about what each summer might bring in terms of an outbreak. Post the advent of the Salk and then the Sabin vaccines the disease receded and vanished. No more braces. No more "iron lungs".

Vaccines are of enormous benefit to the entire population, no matter how you slice and dice that population. When the population is replete with little kids it's doubly so.

Read this and be enlightened. Measles is on the short list of childhood killers yet the rebbeim say no vaccination.

"Statistically speaking, the single main reason behind the low average life expectancy in the developing world is due to the very high number of child deaths (high infant mortality rates). Once childhood is survived people in developing countries often live to old ages. Thus, average life expectancy can be greatly increased by significantly reducing the childhood (in particular, infant) mortality, without actually increasing the average age people live to as an adult. E.g. if 20% of a population dies in childhood (before 15), reducing that rate in half (to 10%) can result in a +5 year increase in average life expectancy, even if the average age of death for those OVER 15 doesn't change at all.

According to UNICEF, the majority of child deaths (70% in developing countries) are a result of these 5 main causes:

acute respiratory infections
diarrhea
measles
malaria
malnutrition

In the 20th century, the massive reduction in infant and childhood deaths due to infectious diseases is the primary driver of increased average life expectancy in the developing world. Universal vaccination is the main contributor to this drastic drop, with several enormous killer diseases now either wiped out or radically reduced:

Smallpox
Polio
Measles
Whooping Cough
Tuberculosis

In conjunction with vaccines, clean drinking water programs (which usually includes sanitation improvement) are responsible for the largest decrease in death at all ages. That is, improving access to clean drinking water will reduce death rates at all age brackets radically, since it significantly reduces congagious disease transmission.

In the developing world, vaccines, clean drinking water, and improved sanitation account for virtually ALL of the increase in life expectancy."

That should be clear enough for anyone to grasp and appreciate.

[WoolSilkCotton; I must be seen to be believed]

++Bob Greene | June 14, 2013 at 07:04 PM++

Bob, how fucking stupid are you? The contraindications listed by the CDC do not make vaccines a 'choice' for people to decide whether or not they want the vaccine. Those contraindications are factual matters for doctors and nurse practitioners to use when evaluating a patient for vaccines.

You are a good example of the kind of stupidity doctors and nurses have to deal with every day, especially in frumma neighborhoods.

[WoolSilkCotton; I must be seen to be believed]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWCsEWo0Gks

[JessicaR]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2446471/

This is a study of rare drug side effects published in a peer-reviewed journal by people with PhD's. One of them is on the faculty of the University of Pennsylvania and is hardly a quack, crackpot, or weirdo--unless UPenn is hiring such people now.

Here is a paragraph emphasizing the difficulty in detecting very rare complications.

"An elementary principle in the design of studies is that the number of participants needed to detect an increased rate of an adverse event depends on how confident one wants to be of identifying a risk of a given magnitude (i.e., the desired statistical power). For example, with 1000 participants, we have a greater than 80% chance of detecting a true doubling in the rate of an adverse event from 5% to 10%, but we have far less confidence (only a 17% chance) in detecting a doubling from 1% to 2%. We would need to study at least 50 000 participants to achieve 80% power of detecting a doubling of a 0.1% event rate (Table 1[triangle]). Although such an event rate seems very small, if the treatment is used by millions of individuals, the number of excess adverse events resulting from an increase to 0.2% will be substantial."

For the record, I am not reflexively anti-vaccination. If smallpox were to become a problem again, due to germ warfare, for example, I would get the vaccine. If I were planning on getting pregnant, I would want the rubella vaccine. And I do believe that for most people, the benefits of vaccines outweigh the risks.

However, there may be a small subset of people who suffer severe risks.

And if physicians and the government are so certain that vaccine risks are minimal, why are there--to the best of my knowledge--no studies comparing vaccinated people with totally unvaccinated people?

[Bob Greene]

Dear wsc
First of all I am not in a frum community.
Second of all, when there is an outbreak and vaccines are being given to the public, many times the person administering the vaccine just gives it and does not ask questions. This is from personal experience from a polio outbreak.
Third of all how stupid and narrow minded are you? Whether you decide to take a vaccine or not, it does happen to be by choice. If you decide to listen to what ever a doctor tells you that is your choice. Apparently your comprehension skills need some work. No where have I stated an opinion that people should choose not to get vaccinated. I am merely pointing out that some people should not be vaccinated. e.g. Shmarya points out that 2 women have already had miscarriages. The logical conclusion would be that any woman that is pregnant that hasn't been vaccinated should run out an get a vaccine. What the cdc site points out is that she should not get a vaccine.
Shmarya, I agree with most of what you say but how am I endangering lives as you claim by posting the cdc site? Do people's lives become endangered by becoming informed?
Also, you claim that haredi families refuse to vaccinate their children. Could you elaborate on this.
Is this because of financial considerations, or because they are Health nuts or is this an edict that was given by their Rabbi not to vaccinate or some other reason?

[Shmarya Rosenberg]

You're truly a fool, Bob.

Besides the fact that you're being very disingenuous, your 'grasp' of the medical information here is so poor that it is laughable.

Past that, it is the people who refused to vaccinate their children who caused this outbreak and who are spreading it ever wider.

Can your very small mind grasp that? Do have the mental capacity to understand that and admit it?

The women who miscarried miscarried because of assholes like you, Bob.

Process that.

[WoolSilkCotton; I must be seen to be believed]

Bob,
Your stupidity, and your appearance on this website, leads me to believe that you are indeed very religious and in a frum community.

"This is from personal experience from a polio outbreak."

The last polio outbreak in the USA was in 1979, among the Amish. Are you claiming to have been a part of the Amish community in 1979?

"many times the person administering the vaccine just gives it and does not ask questions"

Please explain what you define as "many times", and where specifically you have found doctors or nurses administering vaccines without them having you answer some questions first.

"The logical conclusion would be that any woman that is pregnant that hasn't been vaccinated should run out an get a vaccine."

No Bob, that is the stupid conclusion reached by idiots like you.

Those people who ought to be vaccinated should be vaccinated.
It is not a 'choice' for a reasonable person, any more than breathing air or eating food or drinking water. You can hold your breath indefinitely, choose not to eat food or drink water, or run out into heavy traffic. Enjoy the result of your 'choices'.

"Also, you claim that haredi families refuse to vaccinate their children. Could you elaborate on this."

This has been discussed many times here. Look it up on the FM archives.

[R Nash]

Sadly, this is an extension of the acceptance of magic and "alternative medicine" in society at large and ultra-orthodox Jews at even greater ratio. It is also of Haredi redneck philosophy.

In place of honestly examining science and Torah conflict, they prefer to say that science is simply wrong, and to extend that idea, one must resort to magic and magic medicine, i.e. "alternative medicine", because doctors, i.e. evidence based medical practitioners, are conspiring to keep people sick, make more money, boost drug companies, etc. Haredim are more than willing to accept this because now the blaring "science" problem is merely a debatable philosophy.

The result is the return of mumps, measles, and who knows, maybe even polio and smallpox. Anti-vax is a bloody deception. Alternative medicine equals non-treatment. It is that simple, and advocates of these things should beware the consequences, the potential body counts for which they are responsible. Way more people die each year from these deceptions than MBP.

http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com/Anti-Vaccine_Body_Count/Home.html