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June 16, 2013


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Dave Marshall,
your game show concept won't work. Neither side would allow Alex Trebek to decide what the right answer is. Each side would always insist they were right and the other side was wrong.

Yochanan Lavie

People who are anti-schechita are usually motivated by a compassion for animals. (I am not naive enough to believe that latent antisemitism isn't a factor as well). By force feeding geese, it is more likely, not less likely, that schechita will be banned. Instead of rachamim bnei rachamim, Jews will appear to be callous animal abusers.

I suggest we force feed chareidim cholov stam and non-Glatt (but kosher) meat. Their gag reflexes will kill them. (sarcasm).


And.. are you absolutely sure that the "Rabbi Menachem Kohen" you refer to above as the author of this weird book is the same guy as Yirmiya Kohen. Yirmiya doesn't really write in English and it's really very unlike him to write something like this.

Very true comments above about the Shomrei Hadas in Antwerp but just to add the point that whereas it certainly is a Modern Orthodox community, it's rabbis certainly aren't..

Eli, what me messiah?

In terms of logical fallacies, not sure this is best categorized as a slippery slope. It may simply be a false analogy. it's silly even to suggest that the decisions of European food and agriculture regulators could be even remotely influenced by what Israel decides about whether force-feeding geese is cruel.

I suspect he just likes his fois gras.


David--Sorry david last time i mistook you for that evil david

Posted by: jancsibacsi | June 16, 2013 at 08:06 PM

OK - thanks.


As others have pointed out, Kohen is thankfully not the Chief Rabbi of Paris. However, my understanding is that he is the Rosh Beit Din of Paris and works under the authority of the Consistoire Israelite de Paris (mainstream Orthodox). I find it interesting that although he has been in Paris for 5 years, he speaks not a word of the language of the community he serves (French). It makes you wonder what gets lost in translation...

Seraphya Berrin

How does he not realize the opposite of what he is saying is true?

If Rabbis are prepared to justify the clearly cruel practice of force feeding and giving liver disease to animals, then surely they lose any credibility they might have had for trying to convince people that shecita can never be cruel.

By saying cruelty is bad and we are against fois gras but we defend all forms of shecita because it is not cruel, it would be harder to tell they are lying. We would still know that hoist and shackle is cruel, but those who are less informed would be more inclined to believe them.

So much for the brilliant logic they have from learning the talmud all day!


Cohen is NOT the chief Rabbi of Paris.You should correct that.
Cohen was a student at the Klausenberg yeshiva if I"m not mistaken.He was the Dayan of the Shomrei Hadas community which is Modern Orthodox in Antwerp for many years.He moved to Paris about five years ago.
He is not Chabad either


I suggest that some Hairydim be force fed to see how they feel afterward.

All jewish laws from what I have seen until now, have always stressed the importance of going out of our way not to be cruel to animals.

I challenge anyone to point out any Jewish laws to the contrary.

Feeding an animal more than they can eat is blatantly cruel.


That is chief rabbi of Paris.


Foie gras use jto be produced domestically in Israel..

Then production was banned do supposingly to cruelty of animal issues.

Once they enacted the ban it took a few years until it went into affect.
Not because of cruelty to animals but Israel was a exporter of kosher from degras.

The headline is factually incorrect. Kohen is not the chief Rabbi.
You can google Cief Rabbi of Paris to verify the veracity. :-)


forcing a living being to ingest more food than it would on its own even if it had access to an endless supply , is cruel.
imagine how uncomfortable it would be if somebody force fed you far past the point when you were completely full.

rebitzman - $101 to read my posts


Mixed feeling about the feedings. Like you, I've seen how quickly the birds calm down after a feeding (nearly immediately, a d they don't seem to struggle during the feeding either) and I've read a lot of opinions from respected people in the field who say it is no way cruel.

But it sure LOOKS cruel.

This would be easier if foie gras wasn't so darned tasty.

Yochanan Lavie

Dave M: Call it "Jew-party."

David: Pets humanize people. Modern Orthodox do own pets, but ultra-Orthodox do not.


David--Sorry david last time i mistook you for that evil david,i agree with you the fruma are afraid of dogs i see it here in bp all the time the reason is because they are treated similarly by their parents their feeling are dismissed and cant relate normally to animals i remember as a child in europe we had 2 watchdogs and one winter i was going out closed the door and looked back and saw the dog climbing up with its 2 feet to push down the door knobe to go in to warm itself those days we cooked with firewood and and the dogs climed under the stove after a while they left they are unbeleivable intelligent my rebbis in school beat us when i came home the dog was the only one that i can console myself in they are very obidient ,


The frumma need a steady diet of cruelty.

Posted by: WoolSilkCotton; I must be seen to be believed | June 16, 2013 at 07:23 PM

Just as most frumma are maladjusted toward humans they are equally maladjusted toward animals.

Two points: 1) Frumma kids are typically terrified of dogs and don't know how to behave before them and 2) I once saw some frumma kids tormenting an injured pigeon and had to tell them to leave it alone and I called animal welfare people.

WoolSilkCotton; I must be seen to be believed

The frumma need a steady diet of cruelty.


Force feeding geese to fatten them up can be made or leesen the tzar i know it first hand as a child in europe i used to watch the force feeding of geese and i didnt see terrible undue tzar the geese were calm after only seconds of feeding,plus we used to get as much money out of the liver i remember the cost of the geese was covered when somtimes the liver weight over 2 pounds we sold it and made back the money plus we had the geese for for eating:)

Dave Marshall

Yochanan, that's my joke for a Jewish game show (similar to Jeopardy) based on the Tanach, "I'll take Nevi'im for $ 500, Alex!"
There could be another game show about the Tanach, but based on Family Feud:
1. Lubavitchers vs. Satmar
2. Rabbinics vs. Karaites
3. Yeshivish vs. Chassidim
4. combined team of small Chassidic sects vs. one of the big ones (eg. Belz, Satmar)
5. Reform vs. Orthodox
The possibilities are endless!
As a game show host once said "Let's get ready to rumble!"

Yochanan Lavie

"Tzaar baal chayim for $200, Alex?"

(The other) Eli

Ah, the superior deductive reasoning of the frumma. I wonder if this comes from a Talmudic education, or if this comes from Chabad's New Testament part Deux, aka Tanya?
If they're so worried about religious rituals being banned, maybe they should stop pressing their luck with circumcisions in Germany by sucking babies' penises


Kohen isn't chief rabbi of Paris. And he's protecting his foie gras hechsher for export. Always follow the money....

Yirmiya is head of the kashrut division at the Paris Consistoire and a dayan. Sometimes thinks he's also Rosh Beis Din of Paris, although that role is technically also held by the Chief Rabbi of Paris.

This is the real chief rabbi of Paris (and since Bernheim's resignation) also currently de facto CR of France as well..
A calm, very mild mannered Michel Guggenheim.



Ah..the slippery slope argument.....the favourite tool of the orthodox to to keep the religion a religion of Eastern European superstitious peasants.


Makes perfect sense. It's the same logic as saying "If we don't let rabbis fuck little children in the ass Jews will be sent to concentration camps."

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