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May 27, 2013


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I think you're probably right.


" I realized that everyone has the same 'miracles' regardless of their religeon."

They're all alike; it just gets filtered through different cultural lenses.

And yes, frummies, I know - Toyreh's unique because three million people had a mountain held over their heads and now we have a special relationship with an imaginary man in the sky.

chez gitz

Not really sure why all this speculation is necessary, when anyone with half a brain who's been on this Earth for even a short time knows the truth of the matter. When it comes to lubavitcher's conviction that schneerson is the moshiach, there is only one empirical truth, so repeat after me:


Final. End of story. Take it to the bank(or the ohel, if you prefer). This is a central tenet of their religion, and any lubavitcher who would deny this belief would be excommunicated from their coven world wide.

Some refrain from discussing it, some claim that they simply accept the possibility, and others scream it from the rooftops. But they all still believe that schneerson, who died 19 years ago, is the moshiach. Again, this is self-evident to anyone who knows anything about lubavitchers.




Jeff, I first began to question the miracle storie in an unlikely manner, when by chance I stumbled onto a christian radio station and the show was filled with people recounting all kinds of modern day miarcles with crosses etc. I realized that everyone has the same "miracles" regardless of their religeon.


If anything, he'll only be venerated into a more godly figure among the newer generations who weren't even alive during his lifetime, since all they'll hear about are his "miracles."

Yep. They can't peddle enough of it. My nephew believed the miracle stories from day one, even when he considered himself MO.

He told me a few years ago something on the order of, "Every Lubavitcher both believes and doesn't believe the Rebbe is Moshiach." I think most of them suspect he is or want very much to believe it, but they know enough not to say so publicly. The "meshiachists" are merely the ones who are too stupid and/or mentally ill to keep their mouths shut.

(The other) Eli

Who knows. It's really difficult to gauge who isn't a Messainist. There are some who will publicly state that Shneerson is not the messiah and is no longer alive, but those are few and far between.
Everyone else is either a Messainist, or doesn't say anything on the issue, so it's impossible to say where they stand with absolute certainty (though I'm sure speculation can be pretty close to accurate). They're either just being crypto because they don't want to jeopardize missionizing. or seriously doesn't believe in it but will not explicitly say so because of feared backlash from those who do believe in that nonsense).
Moscowitz is unique in that his power within the community allows him to not only say whatever he wants, but also set a norm for what can be preached under his umbrella. So the Yeshivah cannot breed a new wave of Messainists. However, they're still grooming them to be "proper" Chabniks, so they can still be molded and influenced even as they get older because they will simply follow their teachers. With the rise of messianism turning it just as prominent as it was when he first died, I highly doubt this pathetic movement will die out anytime soon. If anything, he'll only be venerated into a more godly figure among the newer generations who weren't even alive during his lifetime, since all they'll hear about are his "miracles."


Thanks for your response "other". I just read some ejaculate from a guy named "Yess" which basically lambasted Moscowitz for not believing that Schneersohn (may his filthy name be erased) was messiah. So, may I conclude that Moscowitz, even though he's the head of the whole Chicago mess, stands alone and is anti-messisich (or however you spell it).

(The other) Eli

RW, the Moscowitz family are the ones who are openly against the whole Messainist movement in Chicago. They can't do much in Rogers Park because they're in a self sustained bubble, and the Israelis buy into it for whatever reason (a lot of Sephardim go to the Bet Chabad Hayisraeli b'Chicago-they even had a mimounah after Passover), and Gold Coast because of how long they've been around (despite having very few members, but they get little support elsewhere, which is good since I despise them). However, in other communities, like in Lakeview, River West, suburbs or college campuses, you won't see those rabbis openly say anything because they would be pushed out.
I don't know about the others you've mentioned though.

(The other) Eli

However, I wonder about the other Lubavitchers who I do know who don't self-identify as 'Messianists'. Sometimes I wonder if they are 'crypto-Messianists' and are just too timid to go public with their belief. Posted by: Nigritude Ultramarine  | May 27, 2013 at 02:04 PM
I know of a couple of Chabad rabbis in Chicagoland who are definitely crypto-Messainists.
I'm sure there are a lot more since the head of the whole movement here is supposedly very anti-Messainist, so most outside of that Rogers Park bubble have to be quiet if they are. Only Gold Coast gets away with it, but that place's cultlike atmosphere reaches 770 heights, except without the numbers lol.
One positive thing I can say though is that the Chabad school in Rogers Park supposedly teaches the kids to not partake in that yechi crap. I don't think 13 year olds can really hide their beliefs well enough to openly refuse to do that Messainist chant, though I could be wrong.
Not that it negates all the other brainwashing, deceptive and cultish tactics of Chabad anyway


Can someone explain to me the various Lubavitch sects in Chicago? Is the main-line group (Moscowitz and his crowd) the messaischs? How about B'nei Rueven where Rabbis Schusterman was the rav when I was a child? Are they still pretty main-line or have they joined the insanity that defines Lubavitch today? Can someone from Chicago clarify this?

Bas Melech

Sometimes I wonder if they are 'crypto-Messianists' and are just too timid to go public with their belief.
Nigritude Ultramarine | May 27, 2013 at 02:04 PM

I agree. Lubavitchers have said to me that they don't think that he was the moshiach, but don't you think he could have been? And then try to convince me of all the "good" things their rebbe did.

put a square into a hole


Even krinsky when asked straight foward on a tv documentry, 'DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE REBBE IS THE MOSHIACH' he hemmed and hawed. he refused to answer such a question on a public forum.
BTW- many flag wavers do it for peer presure.

Nigritude Ultramarine

@(The other) Eli "The Rogers Park Chabad scene is full of Messainists."

This, I know. I can't take a walk in my neighborhood without seeing 'Moshiach' flags or slogans in windows, on cars, or on yarmulkes. I just don't know any of these people personally. My daughter's classmate has a big ass flag in her window (a 'Moshiach' flag -- not a flag with a big ass literally depicted on it).

In fact, I appreciate the fact that some of them have evolved to the point such that many of them sport distinguishing markings indicating that they are 'Messianists'. I take it as Nature's way of saying: stand back or give this person a wide berth.

However, I wonder about the other Lubavitchers who I do know who don't self-identify as 'Messianists'. Sometimes I wonder if they are 'crypto-Messianists' and are just too timid to go public with their belief.

(The other) Eli

I only know one person in Chicago who admits to being a 'messianist' -- his daughter knows my daughter and attends the same school. Posted by: Nigritude Ultramarine  | May 27, 2013 at 09:16 AM
The Rogers Park Chabad scene is full of Messainists. They're very public about it too. You can see banners in front of these tiny Chabad congregations, with the rabbis wearing yechi kippot as well. Doesn't personally bother me if I do see it, but I sure as hell don't want to listen to that dogmatic denial crap.

put a square into a hole

YOU are a racist putz. You can write the same comment and instead of writing chabad you can write anyother sect in the frum community, or you can use the cathloc church or you can use a non-frum Penn state to say the samething. Pedophiles are all over the globe.
This time it's chabad next time its in your back yard.. Mebey it just didn't come out yet but it's there!


Since I had to register with Typepad, I am now using a different name.



Just on the facts that have been reported here, I don't think they are going to have any easy time of it.

Posted by: Robert J. Barron, Attorney-at-Law | May 27, 2013 at 09:43 AM

As an attorney you also should think that all the facts have not been reported here. Also, hopefully this will cause more victims to come forward.


those chabad 'rabbis' are sick in the head . they should go see a psychiatrist , since their chabad sect does not teach them the right from the wrong , and don't do anything when a child sex assault is reported , and worse they cover it up , which led the perpetrator keeps assaulting multiple times throughout years .

it is very dangerous to send a kid to chabad . normal jews should send their kids to reg orthodox schools or camps , not a sect entity . it goes without saying that chabad sect children have no choice , they are committed to go to their sect schools and sleep away camps , just imagine .

knowing how dangerous chabad rabbis are , (this article proves it,along with many more incidents in the past , and a lot more coming up ), parents from the sect should not let their children sleep in the 'rabbi's house .

it's gonna be difficult to prosecute this
mentally sick aryeh dodovitz , bc it took too long to press charges, although if the 15 year old showed years of mental anguish ,which led his parents to do something about it , his parents might have a chance . dodovitz should be lock up in a psychiatric ward .

WoolSilkCotton; I must be seen to be believed

This rabbi could very well be a creep and a scumbag, but those aren't crimes, and as Mr. Barron pointed out, this case may not be strong enough for the prosecution, unless more victims come forward.

put a square into a hole


It truly sounded a bit odd to the Judge. If it as simply as you say why didn't the judge see it like that?!!!!
Evedently there is more meets the eye.


On a related topic: Former YU student Evan Zauder was supposed to be sentenced on May 22. No news anywhere on the topic - was the hearing postponed?


"The prosecutor responed [sic[ that the family of the victim — who was 15 at the time of the assault— was not sure six years ago that they wanted to press charges. "

... and they woke up six years later and decided to press charges. There is something missing from the story.

Posted by: David | May 27, 2013 at 09:14 AM

Whichever David you are, what is missing (and isn't too hard to supply) is that 15+6=21. The parents who did not want to press charges are out of the picture. The alleged victim is now an adult and able to press charges on his own.

Robert J. Barron, Attorney-at-Law

As a lawyer who used to do criminal defense, I'd be all over this case like a cheap rug. And you can bet I'd get a TON of mileage from the fact that the (alleged) assault supposedly took place six years ago.

I'm not saying it did not happen. But as I have said here repeatedly, in a criminal court, it's the prosecutions' burden to prove every element of the offense beyond a reasonable doubt. Just on the facts that have been reported here, I don't think they are going to have any easy time of it.

Nigritude Ultramarine

He lives about two blocks from my daughter's high school. I've never met him though. I only know one person in Chicago who admits to being a 'messianist' -- his daughter knows my daughter and attends the same school.

Bas Melech

At least Chicago has a judge outraged that the prosecutor took so long to arrest the beast. The victim has more courage than his parents. Somewhere, not from home and not from school, he learned to do the right thing. Thanks to the cowardly parents, more boys have most likely been molested.


The correction regarding the suburb does not seem to have made it to the headline.



I wonder if he ever was in the main shul at the City of St Louis Park

There was this crazy guy there with that last name. Had a kid about 5 yrs old and this is in the early 1970s

Did something awful -like a fist fight

Family went to Israel


You are a fool.

Read the post again VERY S-L-O-W-L-Y and see if you can grasp why you are wrong.

put a square into a hole

Six years ago. Sounds a bit like a set up. Where is the picture from? Doesnt look like 15 year old boys to me. SORRY something sounds very fishy....


Thanks, Eli. I fixed it.

(The other) Eli

Met this guy once. Always felt very uneasy around the Rogers Park crowd.
Only reason I wouldn't suspect it of the Gold Coast one is because no young people go anywhere near Benhiyoun lol

BTW, Shmarya, Rogers Park is actually Chicago proper. It's connected to some suburbs (Evanston and Skokie), and the Jewish communities are connected to some degree, but it's not a suburb itself.
Not important really, but I figured you might want to fix that little detail.

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