Haredi Woman Allegedly Forced Into Prostitution

Israel Police have reportedly arrested an Israeli man for allegedly pimping a haredi woman from Bnei Brak for a two-year period. The man, who has a long criminal record that includes prior prostitution-related convictions, is scheduled to have his remand hearing later today in Tel Aviv's Magistrate's Court.

 

Haredi Woman Allegedly Forced Into Prostitution
Shmarya Rosenberg • FailedMessiah.com

Israel Police have reportedly arrested an Israeli man for allegedly pimping a haredi woman from Bnei Brak for a two-year period.

The man, who has a long criminal record that includes prior prostitution-related convictions, is scheduled to have his remand hearing later today in Tel Aviv's Magistrate's Court.
 
According to Ynet, he allegedly met the woman, who is in her 20s, at a haredi home. He told her that he was going to marry her and “encouraged her to ‘go out to the secular world.’”

He then allegedly began to abuse the woman and demanded that she prostitute herself, promising that he would invest the money she would make to secure her financial future.

The woman eventually filed a criminal complaint against the man.
 
Tel Aviv police investigated, reportedly finding that “the woman was moved from brothel to brothel and her money was stolen.”
 
At one point, the man was convicted of robbery and imprisoned. But even so, he kept manipulating and abusing the woman. Police reportedly said that the man would place threatening calls to the woman from prison, and order her to deposit her prostitution money in his prison canteen account.

In the later 1800s and early 1900s, pimps frequented small towns and shtetls and enticed young women, many of them Orthodox or haredi, to go with them to Argentina. The pimps often promised to marry the girls, and promised them lavish lifestyles in a country of plenty.

But when they arrived in South America, they were sold into prostitution.

Rather than being helped by the local Jewish population, the supposedly ‘upright’ Jews rejected them, going as far as prohibiting their burials in local Jewish cemeteries. These Jewish sex slaves had to set up their own cemetery in order not to be buried in unmarked graves in potter’s fields.

Comments

[jew]

Whats the source for this story?

[jew]

The part about girls taken to argentina

[ruthie]

1. jew- it appears you have led quite a sheltered life.
good, i'm happy for you.
2. there is NO DOUBT in my mind the the upright jews did nothing
to help these girls.
they did go to shul, probably made kiddish on friday nights, all the right things....
but help a jewish woman in that situation would HAVE BEEN TRULY HOLY.
it happens in monsey too.
women get hurt.
and instead of a kind word.....the women are judged! as if these holy jews are g-d.
i believe every single word. i know the jewish community, i know our
history, and i'm a hard core new yorker.
unlike you jew, i did not lead a sheltered life. it's all true.
every word.

[ruthie]

p.s.

jew- what's the matter....you can't imagine a man going to a village
and getting a frum girl to go to argentina.
some of these holy jewish mothers....could have never imagined something like this and were happy they were marrying their daughters off.
for these men who went and got these young girls....i have to give credit where credit is due...it's a great scam.
but a horrible and wrong thing to do. but men that do this...just
like our school board in east ramapo....they don't care. they just
see money.
it happened, it still happens, and THE JEWISH COMMUNITY must show
compassion to women who were hurt whether in argentina, a small town in eastern europe, london, antwerp, paris, los angeles.
if not, all their holy talk is bullshit.
a kind word.....
that's holiness

[jew]

Ruthie i can imagine alot of the things but the story illustrates something that was ongoing in those times .

[jew]

Ruthie do you believe every story thats within logic without questioning thats told to you or just the ones you want
to believe

[pls respond correctly]

All jew asked for was a source, he made no mention of the possibility of this happening or not.

[ruthie]

jew: c'mon!!!!
do i believe every story.
i would not have believed it maybe myself.
but my dear jew.....i have witnessed it myself.
it's true.
it happens.
it happened.
like i said.....you've lived a sheltered life.

p.s. you'd make a lousy criminal
but that's good. it's good not to be a criminal. bravo

[ruthie]

pls respond correctly:

1. i understand.
2. aside from here, failed messiah, and it's editor....when i read the article....i didn't have to believe it. i lived it.
i am a source.
get it???

[seymour]

http://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/argentina-jewish-white-slavery

[yakov]

http://rense.com/general24/jewish.htm

[Barry]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwi_Migdal

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3403899,00.html

http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Jewish_White_Slave_Trade_and_the_Unt.html?id=w0CLSUXuFGIC

http://www.amazon.com/Bodies-Souls-Tragic-Prostitution-Americas/dp/0060090235

Stetl life was not 'Fiddler on the Roof'. It was one of dire poverty and backwardness with minimal welfare. Because of this, Jews were heavily over represented when it came to prostitution both in the New World and the Old.

[jew]

Barry to say this is a haredi trait is false how many haredi pimps outside of tropper have you ever heard of ?

[chamor bli daas]

It was the PIMPS that were denied burial in the main cemetery.

[Yochanan Lavie]

A hundred years ago, Argentina was one of the world's premier countries. Now it's a mess.

[Redleg]

There is no doubt that young Jewish girls from shtetlach were sold into sex slavery. What is the source of the statement that the "upright" Jews rejected the poor girls and refused to help them? It may be true but I doubt that it was universally true. That's a guess. Is your statement a guess too or is there some document, book, etc. that describes it.

[dd]

ah! ah! ah! lol

the haredi are rotted to the core . they'll do anything for money . even to go as far as prostitution.

the moral of the story : never trust a 'haredi '

[steven k]

Ruthie,
You come across as an anti-semite, or if you are Jewish, a self hating Jew.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Ruthie, Steven K: In their day the nevi'im would be branded "mosers" and "self-hating Jews."

BTW: There was a movie out about 20 yrs ago called "The Naked Tango" about Jewish prostitution in Argentina. (The Tango originated in the brothels of Buenos Aires). It got good reviews, but I thought it was pretentious.

[Tony Parker]

Steven, there is more then a handful of racists on this site, plenty of self-hating jews, who hate their own religion more than any other religion. Many of the bloggers are very inexperienced, as you will notice, many of them know very little about hareidim, and think they all have at least 10 children, take benefits from the Israeli government to survive, and spend most of their time covering up crimes and studying ancient texts. Anyone who doesn't agree with them gets bombarded with countless comments with proofs that almost all hareidim are bad, and if you don't dispute the proofs, they take it to mean you are admitting to them. If you refute their proofs they call you names.

[Tony Parker]

cont. from above.
See what happened when I left a comment to the news title about haredi pol at the end of last week, when I suggested that those that are happy to hear that 1 million hareidi children will go hungry, are sick, and need to get help. I was hurled abuse from countless bloggers, only a minority seemed to actually accept that one should not delight in hearing that kids will be starving.

[John Haman]

Posted by: Tony Parker | April 21, 2013 at 10:40 AM

Tony, The point of the articles and comments on this site is not to paint every hareidi the way you claim the posters in the comments generalize all hariedim, sure there are percentage wise more good hariedim who dont act they way you described above and others post here, however what I believe most posters as well as shmarya have an issue with in the hariedi world is the blatant ignorence and denial that there is systematic evil in the community! All the corruption that has been exposed on this and other blogs has never been confronted by hariedi leadership in order to erradicate the bad name and image these sick fringe hariedim give the majority. Therefore one has to assume it is condoned by the rabbis and leaders in the community. Till the day comes where mainstream hareidi leaders speak up against the corrupt minority amogst them, whether the food stamp scammers,tax evaders,molesters/abusers and all the other common criminals and financial frauds we read about on a daily basis we here on this site have the right to reserve judgement on the whole community!

[!]

Ruthie -
Has someone else taken your name? I've sometimes wondered whether we could meet and figure out ways to get other women involved in righting some wrongs...but your comments today I mean...well they seem sort of out of character. Its one thing to say you know of real life examples in Monsey NY today but entirely another to rant like you did at someone asking for more information. I had the same question as jew. Not to say it didn't happen. More to know the details...

[Tony Parker]

John, I've not read your reply yet, but I will in a minute, thanks for taking the time. I just wanted to point out how far from the truth this site is, in regard to the news title Todros Grynhaus court appearance, I pointed out that the news was totally untrue, and proved clearly why, everyone just kept quiet. There was no apology, or retraction. I find that just biased reporting, with no interest in truth, just a smear campaign, and if it was a mistake, who cares, it did the job of reminding people that hareidim are bad. Look at this news story, a hareidi was abused by a non hareidi (i assume), and who is the wicked one, the rabbis. That is simply racist

[ruthie]

wow!
1. i am not a self hating jew. that is really funny. omg
i'm just someone who is writing in a second language.
self hating jew. impossible.
but i do point things out that bother me.
2. ! - it was a rant. but only because i've witnessed it in israel,
i've witnessed it here in new york....but my writing got in the way.
pardon.
3. yochanan- i know you speak to me...but i don't get it today.
why would the prophets (i had to ask someone what nevim meant)
be self hating jews and what is a moser. pardon, i don't understand..

[ruthie]

! do you live in the monsey area??
where's devorah?
she lives here.

[ruthie]

yo tony parker,

do you know what you're talking about here.
there are many wonderful wonderful jews here in monsey and there
are haredim that some jews, not me, hate.
why....
let's see....
they steal from the gov.'t when they don't need to.
i would say well less then half need the social services.
and i'm being extremely generous.
AND WHO THE HECK WHAT!!!! would be happy if any children were to go hungry.
john haman said it well.

[Yochanan Lavie]

The prophets denounced corruption in the Jewish leadership of their day, including false piety, ritual excess, and unethical behavior. For their pains they were labeled traitors, kooks, and criminals. Plus ca change, plus ca meme chose; ain chadash tachat hashemesh.

[ruthie]

yochanan-
merci mon ami

ain chadash tachat hashemesh- how true....

[ruthie]

Ruthie,
You come across as an anti-semite, or if you are Jewish, a self hating Jew.

Posted by: steven k | April 21, 2013 at 10:30 AM

actually you have it backwards. i am SO a person that loves
my people....that it drives me crazy when i see what i KNOW
is bullshit.
got that?

[Tony Parker]

John, thanks for your articulate comment. As I write, there is more foul language being posted on the comments above. I understand the agenda you discuss, to promote awareness, which is truly a noble mission. However, SR's reputation is in tatters, following his past news stories that have clearly been aimed at informing the non hareidi population, which defeats his purpose. Combined with what must be noted as lack of fairness or accuracy in many of the news stories, he has provided a breeding ground for fringe elements of the jewish population who harbour resentment and hatred towards anything jewish.
I find it pathetic that the identity of hareidim is being judged by their choice of lifestyle, when to them, their choice of lifestyle is not negotiable, and therefore between themselves, they identify by other matters, such as hassidic sector, financial class, where they live or pray, their job, etc. Between themselves, there are extremes to both polarities, and yes, there is the rotten apple amongst them, as in all of society. Hareidim have base desires as does every human being. Nobody claims to be an angel.
On this site, there are multiple bloggers who know what is best for hareidim, despite never having a job in either politics or religious affairs. Each person to his view, but if we are all unqualified to comment, when we do comment, I think there is an issue if the site has turned into a KKK equivalent, which does nothing constructive, just bashing hareidim.
John, I'm not going to justify anyone, but lets live and let live, and get rid of all this biased reporting.

[steven k]

Ruthie,
You love "your people" so much, that you are always generalizing and accusing them of the worst??
You even stoop as low (and illogically)to say "you have no doubt" that upright jewS didn't help, basing yourself on what?

God should help us all from the likes of "jew lovers" like yourself, always at the forefront of spreading the worst slander

[ruthie]

steven k
you don't understand my writing.
i do not begrudge you.
i forgive you.

[ruthie]

p.s.
steven....i've lived in monsey for quite a few years.
i have a ph.d in knowing the hasidim.
i come from a hasidic family that is so nice and sweet.
monsey....full of corruption.
and i mean FULLLLLL full.
if you want to interpret this as generalizing....please do

[Shmarya Rosenberg]

Tony Parker –

Process.

My reputation is not in tatters or even damaged. Every supposedly controversial report Ive ever written was later confirmed by major media, including CNBC, the New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and literally dozens more.

You have a bizarre mental illness. You project your confused view of reality on others and then act as if it is true when the actual evidence shows that it is not.

When I reported widespread child sexual abuse in haredi schools and communities that was being covered up by the policies of haredi rabbis, lots of Tony Parkers made the same insulting and moronic remarks that you make now. Butt hey were wrong – dead wrong – and there errors (and their intentional lies) literally killed kids.

The same is true with my reports on the haredi move to control all conversions to Judaism worldwide by using Israel to delegitimize MO and other conversions. I was derided for reporting that by lots of Tony Parkers, and ignored by lots of MO and other Jews who thought that, no matter that I was reporting facts, what I wrote must be false – but it was not false.

You don't like the attitude many people have toward haredim? Instead of attacking people who report haredi crime and misbehavior, why not attack the haredi criminals and the haredi rabbis who refuse to condemn those criminals publicly and privately and take clear and concrete steps to stop crime?

Why?

Because to do that would take courage and honesty – two things Tony Parker lacks – and would require confronting the rot that pervades your community.

So, instead, you attack me and the people who have come to hate how the haredi community and its leaders behave.

And you do this using a pseudonym to protect yourself from being held responsible for your behavior.

You are a coward, Tony, a small, little man with no real concern for the victims of haredi crime but lots of concern for haredim.

And while your evident delusion may prevent you from grasping it, most people reading this understand that.

[ruthie]

ooohhhh
pardon
i meant to write
many many upright jews did nothing.
not all.
listen up boy,
if something happens to a woman in monsey, she gets nothing...but
gossip....being talked about etc.
i have a friend, something horrific happened to her. everyone found out. 2 people out of 100,000 gave this woman a kind word.
she ended up saving a lot of women.

[ruthie]

one more thing,
the one thing that bothers me is
1. social services- there are people in monsey who need it. i'm glad
they receive the help.
2. there are people that live in uber nice housing, beautiful silver etc. in the dining rooms, clothes wow factor, etc. but they run for social services. this is making us look bad and could ultimately be dangerous.
3. if if if if they advocated and comprehended how important a decent education is, introduced the arts etc. take all the social services you need....good....as long as you don't expect to give social services to your children as a wedding gift.
4. these children are not being education. i had a lovely 40 year old
grandmother !!!! come to my house this week...and she wants to learn....but satmar did not prepare her. her parents are on social services, her husband took her to a rav last week to complain that
she stopped shaving her hair (although she wears a wig)
point i'm trying to make....THESE KIDS NEED AN EDUCATION.
all my sons are in the best universities in america.
and how many frum people at columbia university....
these kids can remain frum....but get an education.
but like my friend...maybe they don't educate them...because who
knows how many would leave and how many would know if they still kept shabbat, tzniut (modesty)
and kashrut all is good. but the guilt trips! even the chovetz chaim....i'm sure he was a very special person...but i feel he
also laid a lot of guilt trips.
EDUCATON EDUCATION EDUCATION. so they can work.
my friend does not even have a computer in her house with many teenagers. omg....how will they ever get a job!?
other than standing on line for social services.
our books are holy. but if they were really studying they would
recognize in order to work....you must have an education.
or have parents with money!!

[ah-pee-chorus]

+++See what happened when I left a comment to the news title about haredi pol at the end of last week, when I suggested that those that are happy to hear that 1 million hareidi children will go hungry, are sick, and need to get help. I was hurled abuse from countless bloggers, only a minority seemed to actually accept that one should not delight in hearing that kids will be starving.+++

Tony Parker-

youre lying. as was explained to you, NOBODY was happy about charedi kids starving. the point was that:

A) porush was lying in claiming there would be over a million starving kids as a result of the changes being made.

B) whats funny is charedi hypocrisy on display. they dont have to go to the army since their learning is what really protects all of israel, and its all in hashems hands. yet their learning can't provide a simple thing like food? isnt it all in hashems hands?

C) what will happen is that these much needed changes will cause a change in charedi behavior. they will be forced to leave their yeshivas and actually get jobs to put food on the table.

the problem for you is that you hate hearing the truth and couldnt respond to the questions asked of you.

its like a gracious homeowner who allows a family with children to live in his house for a while. the owner feeds the parents and the kids and the father sits and reads old books all day instead of getting a job. finally, as the homeowner is himself running out of money, he tells the guests that he can no longer afford to house, feed and clothe their family of 10. and the guests then accuse the homeowner of wanting to starve their children. it would be funny if it werent so analogous to the charedim.
in fact its still kind of funny.
what isnt funny, and never was, is real starving children. and if you or porush cared about children more than you do about protecting the awful charedi lifestyle, you would aim your vitriol where it belongs- at charedim and their leaders.
but since thats too much for you, go on with your lies about self-hating jews rejoicing at starving charedi children. just dont expect it to go unchallenged, because it wont.

[Tony Parker]

Shmarya, thank you for replying. My sincere apologies for offending you, and I do unreservedly retract that line. I did give credit where it is due, and no, I do not lay claim to much of what you write about me.
I must drive home the truth that name calling has become an integral part of these comments, yours being no exception.
In real life my name is not Tony, but hey, you should have realised that by now. Just as I don't expect myself to reply to all the taunts against the hareidi sector, I don't expect you to answer my grievances against this site. I do however, make a passionate request, that you try to verify all news items, before they are published, retract those that are wrong, and keep fairness and objectivity in your sights. I know you don't censor the posts, and I commend you, but you can uphold your rules, which do not allow name calling.
Thanks

[ruthie]

tony parker.
tack this up in your shul

IF YOU WASH WINDOWS I WILL RESPECT YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE WORKING

please repeat 18 times.
thank you.

[Shmarya]

"… I do however, make a passionate request, that you try to verify all news items, before they are published, retract those that are wrong, and keep fairness and objectivity in your sights.…"

Tony,

I realize this is way beyond your grasp, but I've doing that daily for almost 10 years.

Now stop lying, stop your passive aggressive BS, and grow up.

If you can't do that, leave.

[Abu Jihad Schneerson]

"i have a ph.d in knowing the hasidim.
i come from a hasidic family that is so nice and sweet" Ruthie.
And you don't know the meaning of the words 'moser' and 'neviim'?????
Everyone Jewish knows these two words.....

[Joe Field]

Posted by: Tony Parker | April 21, 2013 at 10:40 AM

Please explain to us, in the twenty first century what exactly is a self-hating Jew? Today if you don’t want to be recognized as a Jew, you don’t have to do anything to gain anonymity. In pre-war world there was a legal need to be affiliate, not anymore.

It is pathetic to claim that most of the bloggers herein have little understanding about the life of Haredim. Well you couldn’t be more wrong, my experience on this site leads me to believe, with good cause, that the vast majority of poster are either OTD with Chasidic upbringing or are part of the community, with first-hand knowledge of the Haredi community.

Please enlighten us which part of the Talmud or its commentaries is considered 21st century literature. You are not arguing that how to perform Temple sacrifices is part of the 21st century medical procedures, or maybe I am wrong, you do indeed subscribe to that view. I agree with you that I would call you or any another person who wrote the same comment as you wrote, stupid, because, your argument is grounded in stupidly.

[ruthie]

hey fuckface....
they were all killed in the camps.
i just got the real mccoys a bit watered down.
forget idiot you wouldn't understand
my grandfather was a gerrer chasid father of 8
one of his son in laws was a vishnitzer...
my blood.
sorry i don't have a pic...
and i knew neviim...just had to make sure...
moser...i didn't know...
but i'm not ashamed to ask a question.
again fuckface
my family were killed

[ruthie]

i apologize for the name calling.
i'm not sorry
i apologize...look it up...it's greek.
you hit a raw nerve

[Joe Field]

Posted by: Tony Parker | April 21, 2013 at 12:22 PM

I am really questioning your knowledge of what is going on in the US, from the way you write I gather, that you are probably European, English. I don’t know that we as Jews, if we didn’t have a “job in either politics or religious affairs” we don’t have the right to comment on obvious wrongdoing, regardless the harm it causes to all the Jews. I am trying very hard to give you a pass, that maybe you don’t know what is going on in the US, Nevertheless, if you are truly that ignorant you need first to get yourself familiar with the Haredi community in the States.

You’re totally of base when you write “lets (sic) live and let live”, who among us are preventing them from living? Pointing out misdeeds is part of being a good citizen. Maybe you don’t care about the perception of Jews in this country as long they could purposely keep their children under the religious yoke. In this country we are free to voice our displeasure if we fell like, and it is a duty of each citizen to speak up when they know that a community of tens of thousands receives government’s benefits, when they should not get any.

[Abu Jihad Schneerson]

i got people killed in Auchwitz too but I do not insult fellow Jews randomly as you do.I was just amazed you don't know simple Jewish and Yiddish words.
But never mind,from the way you write it's obvious you are a mentally daranged ass-hole.For all I care,you can go and fuck yourself!

[Joe Field]

Posted by: Tony Parker | April 21, 2013 at 01:23 PM

It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that you were not named after Mark Anthony of Roman fame, or Saint Anthony, father of all monks.

[Lo K'darkah]

Not just Argentina... the same phenomenon was happening in Turkey in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.
Being a religious person is clearly not mutually exclusive of being a low-life scumbag. Sex slavery is still a real problem, and those who support it are clients as well as pimps. I'm no prude - consensual harlotry is within my moral tolerance (defines most marriages) - but more must be done to rid the world of this assault on human rights.

[Bob Guthrie]

steven k and Tony parker. Two more lads for the FM's "Extremist Chareidim Rah Rah" brigade.

And insulting ruthie in the process. Classy, chaps, classy.

[Tony Parker]

Shmarya, The story about the court appearance last week was untrue.

[Bob Guthrie]

Posted by: Tony Parker
"Shmarya, The story about the court appearance last week was untrue."

Jeez, could you be a little more unspecific on that scattershot accusation?. Was it?:

*"Former Satmar Principal Pleads Not Guilty To Child Abuse."
*"Meir Dascalowitz Reportedly Pleads Guilty."
*"Chabad Rabbi Joseph Gutnick Sued For More Than $1 Million In Pump-And-Dump Stock Scheme."
*"Rabbinical Council Called To "Absurd" Beit Din Case."
*"Flawed Penn Haredi Circumcision Study Comes Under Fire As Agudah Court Brief Lies."
*"Two Haredim Arrested For Harassment In Rabbi Chaim Halpern Sex Scandal."
*"Judge Issues "Groundbreaking" Ruling For Women Of The Wall, Against Police."
*"Chabad Child Sex Abuse Scandal: Rabbi David Kramer Pleads Guilty."
*"Rabbi Gets Five Years In Massive Immigration Fraud Case."
*...and on...

All have "court","appearance", or a combo of both in them, lad, unless you mean "all" the "court appearances" articles involving Haredim on FM are lies.

Way to NOT give somebody a chance to refute your opinionated statement via broad obfuscation, NotTony. =P

[Tony Parker]

The one about a Todros Grynhaus. It was untrue.

[Bob Guthrie]

Posted by: Tony Parker
"The one about a Todros Grynhaus. It was untrue."

...

*Sigh* Well, since that is the extent of the explanation of the statement regarding the matter,...

You generated an opinion about a subject, and announced such in written form. Good for you!.

(oi)

[Shmarya Rosenberg]

Tony –

We all realize that you are dishonest and not bright. I was told it was pre-trial motion. In most democracies, defendants appear in court when those motions are made.

[Yochanan Lavie]

LKD: You are right. It happened on the Lower East Side, too. But to their credit, American Jewry did something about it. They bought off the girls and rehabilitated them by teaching legitimate trades. Ultimately, they were able to marry and start new lives and put their shame behind them. This was done on the DL, as they say.

http://forward.com/articles/175115/sex-trade-then-and-now/?p=2

http://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/eastern-european-immigrants-in-united-states

http://forward.com/articles/3054/pickpockets-players-prostitutes-ee-jews/

http://books.google.com/books/about/Life_on_the_Lower_East_Side.html?id=CcisYgEACAAJ

[Bob Guthrie]

(...)

allrightiethen, since I have no time for twenty questions...

Okay, NotTony, I will assume based on your terse quip that the Todros Grynhaus article you imply is false is this one?:

"Rabbi Todros Grynhaus Court Appearance." (latest one from last week).

Now, since the whole of Shmayra's article was JUST to announce that Todros MADE an pre-trial appearance in Manchester's criminal court, the implication is that this statement is the part you feel is untrue?.

(let's assume it is, I need to go to breakfast and you are being obtuse).

Well, Shmarya posted a snapshot of the court's paper entry, but I am going for broke betting that you don't take that image at face value, so let's use the magic of the intertubes, and locate a UK courts tracking site that has that docket registered officially:

Incourts.co.uk (http://incourts.co.uk/Daily/Wednesday/Manchester.html) lists the following results:

One Todros Grynhaus made an official pre-trial court appearance in Manchester City Magistrates Court on Wednesday, 17 of April 2013 in Room 12, Magistrate not named, case started at 10:56 am (GMT).

Well, it did happen as Shmayra posted: "Rabbi Todros Grynhaus Court Appearance."

Now... what? (apart of trying to derail THIS thread with non-sequiturs). Your move.

[David4]

and once again the basement rat links some maligning into his story. The story about the pimping is true. The pimp in question - is from Shmarya's background - i.e. non Orthodox.

That it happened in Argentina also true. But the next bit - that's where this two bit reported always loses credibility without a shred of evidence. He'll rant and rave about the few bits he believes he blew open - less than a dozen in ten years - on balance pathetic journalism.

But hey, whatever pays the rent and keeps the other (live) rats out of the basement, right?

[Shmarya Rosenberg]

David4 –

What made them non-Orthodox? The pimping? Or theology?

If you read up on it, you will see that there were Orthodox pimps, non-Orthodox pimps and pimps born and raised in Orthodox homes but who no longer identified that way.

And the same is true for the girls sold into sexual slavery.

[Yochanan Lavie]

No True Scotsman would become a pimp or a prostitute.

[Lo K'darkah]

Thank you YL. The case I cited in Istanbul (same scam - girls from the shtetl dumped on the streets) is fascinating, because they built their own shul (!) and community - the building of which, I believe, still stands.

[Yochanan Lavie]

LKD: They also built a shul and a cemetary in Buenos Aires.

[ruthie]

i think that's beautiful they built their own shul and cemetary.
they had an EXTREMELY hard life.
their souls were good.

[Yosef]

This articles touches on one of my fantasies. I gots to know. Make my day. Did she keep her head covered at all times? What type of head covering? Was she an HHS (Holy Head Shaver)? Did she wear a shawl in the summer? Thick stockings with crinckles and seams? Black shoes that look like they were made from jumbo potatoes? Mikva dip between clients? Did she read Mishpacha magazine or Yetid Neeman between clients>

[ruthie]

Yosef,
NOT funny at all.
you're insulting these women.
There is NOTHING wrong with head coverings, black shoes, what they read etc. but you KNOW they didn't....so you're actually making fun of peoples clothes. that's not nice.
you know the answers to your questions.
I feel such sadness for these women.
how i wish i could have helped them.

[Tony Parker]

Bob, if that is the source, ie, a snapshot from a site, plus an assumption that most people make court appearances, that is NOT "reliable sources".
Are all the articles here only from reliable sources? Yes or No?

Ruthie, you say you are from a hassidic family, experienced abuse there, and have English as your 2nd language, so I assume Yiddish or Hebrew is your 1st language. How is it that you don't know so many yiddish & Hebrew words?

[Bob Guthrie]

Posted by: Yosef
"This articles touches on one of my fantasies."

The one where you play the part of somebody who is aware of the misdeeds of a certain religious splinter community, that makes valiant, thoughtful and encouraging posts non-approving of individuals therein of criminal thought and intent?.

"Did she keep her head covered at all times? What type of head covering? Was she an HHS (Holy Head Shaver)? Did she wear a shawl in the summer? Thick stockings with crinckles and seams?...".

Oh,.. no. Your fantasy is the one were you are an Misogynistic Religious little soulless perp just like those individuals. In short, what you actually really are, Yosef.

[Bob Guthrie]

Posted by: Tony Parker
"Bob, if that is the source, ie, a snapshot from a site, plus an assumption that most people make court appearances, that is NOT "reliable sources"."

Oh, no, no, no, NotTony, you are not doing a 180 degree SBS counterpoint here, chap.

Your original disputed point/assertion was:

"Shmarya, The story about the court appearance last week was untrue." "The one about a Todros Grynhaus. It was untrue."

Untrue. As in false, fake, fabricated, not newsworthy,... Not "NOT reliable".

Once again, the news title that Shmarya wrote was "Rabbi Todros Grynhaus Court Appearance", which backed with a supplied snapshot/screenshot of an UK court docket document, Shmarya informed us that Todros Grynhaus made a pretrial court appearance.

Was this true?. Again, Incourts.co.uk (http://incourts.co.uk/Daily/Wednesday/Manchester.html) said "Yes":

*Grynhaus, Todros
*Manchester City Magistrates Court, Room 12
*Wednesday, 17 of April 2013 @ 10:56 am (GMT)

Can we prove further that Shmayra's source image is reliable, and thus the news post?. Actually, thanks to your insistence, yes. Let's take a closer look at it:

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b71f69e2017eea561266970d-pi

*Court name, location, and address is the same as the official data at Incourts.co.uk
*Date (same)
*Individual (righto)
*"For Mentionn"...

Ah, what is this?.

Oh, there is something I missed: The "For Mention" (pre-argument talks), its docket #T20121134, plus the time it transpired. Let's enter this further data in at Incourts.co.uk, hit enter:

"TODROS GRYNHAUS (Manchester)

05/03/2013 Tue, For Mention - Case Started - 10:28 at Court: 14

05/03/2013 Tue, For Mention - Case to be listed for Further Mention/PAD on 06-Mar-2013 - 10:43 at Court: 14

06/03/2013 Wed, Plea and Case Management - Case Started - 10:29 at Court: 14

06/03/2013 Wed, Plea and Case Management - Hearing finished for TODROS GRYNHAUS - 10:41 at Court: 14

14/03/2013 Thu, Plea and Case Management - Case Started - 10:22 at Court: 12

17/04/2013 Wed, For Mention - Case Started - 10:56 at Court: 12."

Why, thank you, NotTony!. The additional data in the image you dismissed as not "reliable" (well, actually "untrue") not only further supports the article as it stands, it actually provided much, much more verifiable proof about the rebbeh's pretrial court appearance.

Thank you so much further misgivings about the matter, NotTony. It actually enticed me to further check and confirm the article's veracity beyond Shmayra's intent. Isn't that nice?. ^.^

"Are all the articles here only from reliable sources?." You know, NotTony, I haven't check ALL the articles in FM for it, but three things are clear after your accusatory dismissal post based on a no-grounded in fact assertion: A) Shmarya's source was more than correct, B) your were wrong, C) and you don't believe, no, sorry, care that any and all the articles here are from any reliable sources.

As the apropos European saying goes: "¿No querías caldo? Pues toma dos tazas." =)

[dh]

You don't want soup? Then drink two rice.

[ruthie]

lol
you think hebrew or yiddish was my first language?
that's funny.
my parents spoke yiddish to me....
true...but everyday yiddish....not ultra orthodox words...
but it's not my first language as in what language did the country i lived in speak.

[ruthie]

and what makes you think i was abused?
certainly not at home.
i traveled...and saw a lot.
i saw women being abused.
i'm not going into details.

[Bob Guthrie]

@dh

It's an old Spanish rebuke. No decent straight translation. Along the lines of "more than bargained for", "let well enough alone", and "kicking a dead horse", and still doesn't catch the sweet nuance of it.

"Caldo" is "soup", "taza" is a "soup cup", by the by.

[Abu Jihad Schneerson]

Ruthie,please stop making a fool of yourself!Moser and Neviim are "ultra-orthodox words" for you?

[ruthie]

neviim no i knew it was prophets...just like to ask to make sure.
wait let me ask someone here about moser again.
nope, the shomer shabbos friend i have here doesn't know it either.
maybe we're pronouncing differently?

[ruthie]

no did i say ultra orthodox?
pardon.
omg
no they're just jewish words.
not just
sorry
jewish words.
but 99% of secular jews may not know it in hebrew as neviim.
i do. but just wanted to make double sure.
but moser....yl explained it...but i didn't get it.
but i emailed a friend and am waiting for an answer.

[Abu Jihad Schneerson]

Moser means snitch.