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March 07, 2013

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SkepticalYid

Posted by: Anti-kike | March 10, 2013 at 06:06
I wish I'd seen your stupid comments earlier. I don't watch sports. I think they're a waste to time. I stated that the British tabloids represent an extreme. I don't watch porn of any kind. But your pointless personal attack doesn't change the fact that Haredi media render women non-existent.

Anti-kike

Oh, yeah, I almost forgot Skeptical Yid. If this was about gender rights, you would be as outraged at the conduct of the British tabloids treatment of women as you are the haredim's. But there is an underlying agenda here isn't there? This really isn't about human rights and dignity it's about bashing Jews. You would have otherwise stated let us fight all forms of gender bias. By the way, my British tabloid comment was not intended to defend such treatment but to make some posters here more aware of how this issue extends into non-Jewish communities as well.

Anti-kike

Protest gender...that is

Anti-kike

Remember that Skeptical Yid when you watch major leauge sports. Not one female can play baseball or basketball? How hypocritical. Are you willing to express gender discrimination in sports?

SkepticalYid

Posted by: Anti-kike | March 09, 2013 at 08:41 PM

Illustrating an example of the other extreme doesn't provide a reasonable defense for rendering women non-persons in the media.

Refugee from Boro Park

Their message is clear: the existence of women is immodest. Out of sight, out of mind.

Anti-kike

I think that these Yiddish language newspapers should become enlightened and use the example of many British papers. They, at least in the near past, feature "tit of the day" photos. Now that's righteous. And shockingly, who knew that Ruppert Murdoch wasn't Jewish.

Nigritude Ultramarine

"On the face of it, what? Uh, Marilyn Monroe is still pretty fucking hot and she's been dead for 50 years."

Yes, dead women are much, more attractive when their picture is placed next to their obituary or a newspaper account of their death.

(The Other) Eli

Well, friends, welcome to Saudi Arabia. The Chasidim have reached the same level as them.  They should go to Riyadh and have a conference on Tzniut. They can pick up pointers from each other. (sarcasm) Posted by: Dave | March 07, 2013 at 09:12 PM

Nah, the Hassidim have passed them a looooong time ago. They'd probably think Saudi Arabia or Yemen is too lenient with their modesty laws.
I'd be down for sending them over, but then I'd feel.bad. After all, they didn't do anything bad enough to deserve an influx of Shatmars

A. Nuran

Dave, it's worse than Iran or Saudi Arabia. Taking a look at a bunch of random Saudi papers' online editions I see plenty of pictures of women. Same with Iranian ones.

Ynot

Whatever the young woman would have believed is respectful. Good case to crop both photos and just print the article.

Soph

Well, friends, welcome to Saudi Arabia. The Chasidim have reached the same level as them.
They should go to Riyadh and have a conference on Tzniut. They can pick up pointers from each other. (sarcasm)

Posted by: Dave | March 07, 2013 at 09:12 PM


In Saudi Arabia there are pictures of women in the magazines and newspapers, with the most conservative publications having pictures of immodestly dressed women pixellated, just recently they started to have pictures of women on billboards as well (albeit ones wearing a headscarf) I.e. ads for medical centres showing all the doctors working there. They also sell products with pictures of women on the packaging and these are not censored. They also have female presenters on the state TV channels, with and without hijab.

A decade or so ago things were a lot more conservative but they have become far more relaxed since King Abdullah has been in power. Also a lot of times it is US and UK companies doing the censoring worrying the Saudis will be offended, for example Starbucks no-one asked for them to remove the highly abstract female figure from their logo in Saudi outlets, they just presumed it would cause offence if left on. There is also a conservative school of thought in Saudi that views photographs and drawings of all living creatures as impermissible, nothing to do with gender at all-it's similar to how some of the Amish view photography and drawing its all to do with believing only God can create in that way.

seymour

yes I think it is disrespectful the smart thing would have been the omit the picture of him too. once they poted his and not her that is wrong.

for the ones claimed they raise the bar of modesty for every raise of modesty they lower the bar in honesty so it is a wash.

why not raise the bar against fraud scamming cheating stories we hear almost daily in satmar

Farfrumt

Barry,

My comment was not to make the point that Der Blatt is correct in not putting pictures of girls in their paper. Nor was it a comment on whether or not Satmar is right as to the way they interpret religion or how they raise their children. I was only making a point to disagree with the sentiment that it was disrespectful to her to leave her picture out of the paper. Whether her upbringing was harmful or correct, taking for granted that she was a run of the mill Satmar as most of them are, she would not have wanted her picture in the paper. That is respecting her, not disrespecting her.

I am not validating the Satmar way of life. I am not near Satmar in any way.

Have a great Shabbos,

WoolSilkCotton

Tehran or Williamsburg, same thing:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/25/michelle-obama-oscars-dress-iran

Runner1983

Zibble, I beleive G_d never intended for women to be marginalized - by removing their images from pictures, and in a broader sense, from the public sphere in haredi communities in Israel. All this is done in the interest of modesty, because haredi boys were never taught the interpersonal skills needed to deal with women and to keep their hormones in check. Therefore, the burden is placed on women. You can't possibly claim that the practice of not reporting child sex abusers to the police, and as a result they are left free to abuse more childern, is a Jewish value!! I don't care what branch of Judaism an individual claims to be from, I beleive that marginalization of women and letting child sexual abusers continue to abuse is an anathema. You be the judge if the people who do this are still practicing Judaism in these areas.

Ben

Yes. Every time it is done it should be published for everyone else to see the absurdity for these cults.

shosh

You know that in some Haredy communities it is unacceptable for them to publish pictures of any woman in a paper. Will you pen a screaming headline every time you find them implementing this policy of theirs?

Reuven

It's Time to tell these Haredi leaders to "Let my People Go". We have become our own worse Pharaoh

Barry

Farfrumpt - Every so often you read in the papers about some anorexic girl starving herself to death. These reports are often accompanied by a photo of the girl taken some years earlier, showing her healthy as well as a more recent photo showing her emaciated.

This poor girl would be disgusted by her looks when she was healthy. Do you think that by publishing a photo this girl would have objected , the newspaper was acting in any way immorally or being insulting?

There are apparently hundreds of pro-anorexic websites ('pro-anna') which cater for girls who wish to look emaciated. The fact that some of them die (whether from starvation or as some must statistically do, by traffic accident) does not mean that their choice to starve themselves deserves respect.

The fact that girls are conditioned from infancy by Satmar misogyny to consider themselves as mere sexual objects does not make it right, and the fact that one of these girls has the misfortune to become a road fatality (as statically will occur every so often in NYC) is irrelevant as to the question as to whether haredi education should be allowed if girls end up with such low self esteem that she would have objected to a normal photo being published as strongly as an anorexic girl.

Some years ago, in the UK, social services intervened at a prestigious ballet school because girls were being pressured into becoming anorexic. The artistic director of the school complained that without these pressures girls would, in his words, become 'too bummy and too titty' to become lead dancers. However, even if it is true (as it may well be) that a post adolescent girl must be prepared to sacrifice her development into womanhood to play the Black Swan, we must as a society not allow her (or others to encourage her) to do so, even if she wants to.

You do not risk the physical sexual development of a girl just to satisfy a particular held standard however prevalent as how a ballerina should look like. The fact that the 'ballet world' thinks otherwise, is an indictment on it.

You should not risk the mental sexual development of a girl just to satisfy a particular held modesty standard however prevalent. The fact that the 'fanatically hareidi' world thinks otherwise, is an indictment on it. The fact that we give Satmar free rein to harm children, is an indictment on us.

micael  C

this matter has beeen handed over to hilary clinton to investigate further.

Luke

Wool Silk Cotton:

LOL. You beat me too it!

Luke.

Dov

Hasidic men need to start practicing modesty. No more hasidic men in photos, tempting other men and women.

Garnel Ironheart

Think positively: at least they acknowledge her existence. They could have written a piece about how the man along with "another" was killed.

WoolSilkCotton

What exactly is a self hating anti Semite?

jancsibacsi

Nuss--But when you write about Hasidim who raise the bar of modesty and ridicule their efforts to guard themselfs and their communities ( which you do all the time ) and when you go out of your way when to ridicule them when they enact Takonas for their congregations that in no way affects anyone not of their hassdis
You are a self hating anti Semite
You are delusional how in the world can they be anti-semites when you guys are not even jews, you are a megalomaniacal self centered maniak, a cult who thinks they are the overlords of yiddishkeit you are sick.

Joe Field

Posted by: ruthie | March 08, 2013 at 04:38 AM

Sorry Ruthie, I know for a fact that Moshiach is a hot chick and she likes ridding her Harley and let the air flow though her hair. Then I woke up and I found myself hearing from this Chabadnik, that Moshiach is this old death dude. I am ready to commit suicide, all my dreams of riding with my Moshiach is down the tube, and now I need to go to the cemetery and dig out this old fart to ride with him.

:)

Gold

Wake up people. Moshiach is on the way.


Please. According to the Lubavitch commenters Moshiach is already here.

http://collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=24303&alias=bochurim-redirect-moshiach-talk

ruthie

Skeptical Yid,
good job

Nussi:
wake up!!

SkepticalYid

Posted by: Nussi | March 08, 2013 at 05:22 AM

Right. So when Hassidim take it to another level and burn bus kiosks because there's an advertisement with a woman's face, that's nobody's business. It's just raising the bar on modesty. When they spit on little girls just for wearing open toed sandals, that's nobody's business. What it really proves is that some Hassidim are extremist zealots who will use violence to impose their community's standards on others. In other words: they're anti-semites.

Nussi

When you speak up about any injustice or criminal act wrought by Hasidim you can be called an advocate for honesty and a moral man
When you protest against pervertes and their enablers you can be called a advocate for the children and a crusader for justice
When you uncover misdeeds and illegal deeds of Hasidim you can be called a investigative. Blogger
But when you write about Hasidim who raise the bar of modesty and ridicule their efforts to guard themselfs and their communities ( which you do all the time ) and when you go out of your way when to ridicule them when they enact Takonas for their congregations that in no way affects anyone not of their hassdis
You are a self hating anti Semite

ruthie

actually
1. i still hope moshiach comes. i hope he's good looking too.
2. the only reason they didn't show her face is because if they
don't show her face they truly believe g-d will like this.
that's it.
they believe they know what g-d likes.

ruthie

Wake up people. Moshiach is on the way.
Posted by: Edge Man | March 07, 2013 at 09:44 PM

You are right he was on his way, but you see he made a detour into Auschwitz, and the Nazis exterminated him. Sorry he is kaput
Posted by: Joe Field | March 07, 2013 at 11:01 PM

WHOA!!! huge hug for Joe Field

VegLuva

These sickos masturbate when they see hot chicks on the train! Who needs a dead woman's picture?

Farfrumt

So now my belief/opinion that a Satmar girl would most certainly want her picture to not appear in a paper is "outrageous".

And I didn't assume anything about your religious or opinions. I don't know anything about you. What I did say was that I can't imagine that an intelligent person like you is certain that whatever your beliefs about religion and life are, they you believe them to be factual. Then again, they are beliefs.

Joe Field

Wake up people. Moshiach is on the way.
Posted by: Edge Man | March 07, 2013 at 09:44 PM

You are right he was on his way, but you see he made a detour into Auschwitz, and the Nazis exterminated him. Sorry he is kaput

Joe Field

You are worse than them!
Posted by: yp | March 07, 2013 at 08:46 PM

Who are the fricking “tham”

Bob Guthrie

Posted by: Farfrumt
"You are correct, I cannot speak for a dead girl."

Quite correct.

"You may call my opinion stupidity but that's your prerogative."

Which I did, yay free thinking me. Don't proclaim "My point above is not debatable." Everything is debatable, including this statement of yours, or your outrageous belief/opinion that "she would want them to leave her out of the paper."

Don't presume that you are above reproach or chastising due to (by the looks of it) your religious opinionated convictions on her religious/personal life position. To think other wise would be... folly, obtuseness, puerility, asininity, fatuousness.

And don't dare assume knowledge of my religious beliefs. That would be, dare I say,... well, you already know what already, guv'nor.

Joe Field

On the face of it, what? Uh, Marilyn Monroe is still pretty fucking hot and she's been dead for 50 years.
Posted by: What are you trying to say exactly? | March 07, 2013 at 07:24 PM

You tried for a field-goal but the ball bounced of the uprights. The difference in not the picture itself, it is the article, if someone read the story how she and her husband and baby died, and still masturbates, than he is sick and would masturbate no matter if there is a photo or not, Capish.

Joe Field

I could see that the newspaper editor is concurrent that someone might masturbate on this photo.

Bob Guthrie

Posted by: Edge Man
"She believes and respects the traditions of the Satmars. Presumably, she would NOT have wanted her image produced in a newspaper claiming to follow the traditions of Satmar."

You gents assume to know what she did or did not think or believe. Unless you are G*d, you can't presume or shove your opinions down a dead person's mouth.

"Let's bless each other that in the merit of these precious holy souls that perished." Why should we?. Don't you think maybe she didn't want her death to be used by somebody to chastise or impart not asked for blessings on others in an internet opinion forum?.

"We knew what she was really thinking". No, no we do not. =/

Farfrumt

Guthrie,

You are correct, I cannot speak for a dead girl, but what is not debatable is that if you would have asked her 1 week ago as to her position on whether pictures of girls should be in Der Blatt she would most certainly say they should not be..

Now that the choice is whether we should we put her in or not, all we have to go on is what she would have wanted had she been alive to be asked. We can debate what she wants now, but none of us truly know what we will find out when we all pass on. I for one am not convinced that my path path in life is what god wants from me although I believe I am a pretty fair minded individual living a decent religious life. Are you convinced that your take on life and religion is correct?

You may call my opinion stupidity but that's your prerogative. I would venture to say that this is a mature discussion and there is no need to call someone else's opinion stupidity. Unless you believe your position is fact, but you seem more intelligent then that.

Bob Guthrie

Posted by: Farfrumt
"You say it's disrespectful to her, I bet you she would want them to leave her out of the paper. So actually it's quite respectful."

Really?. You are actually telling us that you can speak on behalf of the dead bride, proclaiming that she would not approve by appearing with her married husband on the front of a newspaper?. Not that's is disrespectful.

"My point above is not debatable."

You are quite right, you don't "debate" stupidity.

Edge Man

The kallah is a Satmar, as we understand. She believes and respects the traditions of the Satmars. Presumably, she would NOT have wanted her image produced in a newspaper claiming to follow the traditions of Satmar.

Wake up people. Moshiach is on the way. Put down the mud and yuck and pick up your holy selves and holy words. Let's bless each other that in the merit of these precious holy souls that perished, that they rest in peace, we should use our words to bless one another and elevate our missions.

In their merit.

Farfrumt

Dovid,

You say it's disrespectful to her, I bet you she would want them to leave her out of the paper. So actually it's quite respectful.

You can agree or disagree with Der Blatt but my point above is not debatable.

Flatbusher

The tragedy here that a few generations back, when Hasidism started in America after the Holocaust it was not so extreme.

With every new generation more chumras pile up. That may be one of the reasons why so many Hasidim are only putting on the clothing but behind that they are cool Americans. But two faced phoniness can't last. Tragedy.

This the same reason why molestation does not get reported in these Yiddish papers besides the PR disaster: they feel talking about child molestation is a form of pornography. Ironically its become worse than the criminal act itself. Hence 103 years reduced to 50.

Devorah

I would hope her parents never see this picture without their beloved daughter.

Dovid

How disrespectful to the female victim.

Dave

Well, friends, welcome to Saudi Arabia. The Chasidim have reached the same level as them.
They should go to Riyadh and have a conference on Tzniut. They can pick up pointers from each other. (sarcasm)

Bob Guthrie

Posted by: yp
"You are worse than them!!!! At least they are in mourning. You are worse than them!."

Wow, take a valium, then make a rational response, lad. o.O

"You all are so pathetic."

We are not the ones that omitted the image of the significant other from a publication magazine due to their extremist religious misogynistic beliefs, bubbeh.

"Wake the f@#$k up!!! start being humans!."

When you, or they, start acting like one, feel free to dispense such "wisdom" around.

Now come back into the fray and continue to apologize for their repeated disdain for women, you little, brainwashed little tool, you. =|

yp

you all are so pathetic..... all you do is bitch and mown about people on the other side, while all of you are even more shit than they are!!!!!
Wake the f@#$k up!!! start being humans!

Michael from Lakewood

Posted by: Bob Guthrie | March 07, 2013 at 08:34 PM


That is one tough call.

I would be interested in hearing one or more Frum women's reactions or opinions on this....

yp

Posted by: Bob Guthrie | March 07, 2013 at 08:34 PM
it's a tragedy...and if any of you have any human decency you'd all would just talk about the actual tragedy and not some side points.
You are worse than them!!!! At least they are in mourning. You are worse than them!

Alter Kocker

Ignorant momzers. In the name of Tznius, they grind this woman's memory into the dust. It is incredible that these people possess the brain power to walk upright and operate computers and printing presses.

Der Blatt needs to be put out of business.

Bob Guthrie

Posted by: yp
"Who cares...."

Posted by: Nossi
"What is the story here?"

Posted by: Elbaum
"Who really gives a shit about what non-customers have to say?."

Posted by: SquareBehind
"They put just a picture of him... And you can't take it.. Because you're a moron.."

Don't know what is worst: The cluelessness, missing the inherent Extremist Chareidim misogynism point, the sheer disregard of basic common Human Decency, or the Apologists. =P

yp

who cares.... THEY read it, not you. they can do whatever heck they want.

SquareBehind

In other words... They put just a picture of him... And you can't take it.. Because you're a moron.. Messiah don't fail.. We believe in the 13 principles of faith of the Rambam..

zibble

The practice of Haredism is not the practice of Judaism.

Why not? Is Modern Orthodoxy "the practice of Judaism"? How about Chabad? Chareidi Litvak? Conservative? Secular Humanist? Tell me, please, who are the authentic practicing Jews?

Bas Melech

Silly men, don't you know why? For these so-called chasidim, looking at a bride is the same as lookinng at pictures in Playboy.

Ben

The only way to fight it is educating entire Jewish people of Satmar disgusting practices. This, hopefully, we stop admiration which normal secular Jews often feel to the people who keep traditions of their ancestors alive.

The main part of education is to show that their traditions have very little in common with the traditions of our ancestors.

Runner1983

"Satmar-Hasid-Owned Papers Cut Slain Woman Out Of Her Own Wedding Picture For "Modesty"

The practice of Haredism is not the practice of Judaism. They belong to a very powerful cult, that has nothing at all to do with religious practice. Their marginalization of women is over the top.

What are you trying to say exactly?

>Who is going to get turned on by a dead person?

On the face of it, what? Uh, Marilyn Monroe is still pretty fucking hot and she's been dead for 50 years.

Lubavitchers Are Christians

Wait..... I thought it was something personal against Hillary.

Nigritude Ultramarine

Who is going to get turned on by a dead person?

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