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March 30, 2013

Israeli Doctors Find 'Delayed Reaction' Herpes Infection Caused By Dangerous Haredi Cicumcision Rite

Metzitzah b'peh Chabad closeupIsraeli doctors have found a herpes (HSV-1) infection in a 2-and-a-half-year-old boy they believe came from metzitzah b'peh (MBP), the direct mouth-to-bloody-penis sucking done by many mohels (and almost all hasidic mohels) just after cutting off the baby's foreskin and ripping off the membrane under it. If correct, these doctors may have found the cause of what many believe to be the noticeably higher number of learning disabled children in hasidic communities.

Metzitzah b'peh Chabad closeup
A Chabad mohel doing MBP last year in Brooklyn

Penile Herpes Simplex Virus Type 1 Infection Presenting Two and a Half Years After Jewish Ritual Circumcision of an Infant
Orit Yossepowitch, MD,* Tamar Gottesman, MD,* Orna Schwartz, MSc,Þ Michal Stein, MD,þ§ Francis Serour, MD,þ§ and Michael Dan, MD*§ • [Journal of] Sexually Transmitted Diseases, publiched by the American Sexually Transmitted Diseases Association

The association between Jewish ritual circumcision and genital herpes simplex virus type 1 infection has been well described. We report a case of genital herpes that first presented at the age of 22 years. We believe that the infection was acquired asymptomatically through direct orogenital [mouth-to-penis] suction performed during circumcision [by the mohel]…

The most plausible source of the virus in the present case was acquisition from the oral secretions of the mohel, mainly because the eruption involved almost exclusively the corona of the glans penis, mirroring the circumcision wound and the immediate contact with the mohel’s saliva.…

The infant’s mother tested positive for HSV-1 antibodies. Maternal antibodies do not guarantee protection of the infant from acquiring the infection. Indeed, in 3 of the previously described cases, penile postnatal HSV-1 developed after circumcision despite maternal HSV-1 antibodies. Nonetheless, the presence of antibodies in the mother might have played a role in the asymptomatic nature of the primary [original] infection of the infant [immediately following his circumcision].…

We cannot exclude another form of postnatal acquisition of the virus from a caregiver with oral infection may be it the parents, other members of the family, or day care personnel.12 Upon questioning, the patents denied any orogenital [direct mouth-to-penis]contact with the infant. Still, even if an orogenital contact with a caregiver did happen, one would expect the genital eruption to be more extensive than it was.…

If correct, these doctors may have also found the cause of what many believe to be the noticeably higher number of learning disabled children in hasidic communities – sub-clinical MBP-transmitted
HSV-1 infections. This cause and effect was first suggested by Rabbi Dr. Moshe Dovid Tendler of Yeshiva University several years ago.

Here's the case study as a PDF file:

Download STD - mbp-acquired penile HSV in a toddler

Comments

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Who said that chasidic children have more disabled or dysfunctional children? I think its the opposite, there are more smarter and better functional chasidic children then in other communities.

Bobover: Your mastery of the English language proves your point (sarcasm).

It could just be the high rate of inbreds too.

Between viruses, inbreeding, not getting vaccines, and general filth, the frumma will soon be history.

"We report a case of genital herpes that first presented at the age of 22 years."

Shouldn't that be 2 1/2 or 2.5 years?

If its due to MBP there should be a marked imbalance of disabled between boys and girls - not too difficult to investigate statistically or to be more scientifically accurate the difference between boys and girls in non Hasidic families should be statistically significantly different than Hasidic families

Who said that chasidic children have more disabled or dysfunctional children? I think its the opposite, there are more smarter and better functional chasidic children then in other communities.

Posted by: bobover chusid | March 30, 2013 at 11:13 PM

So why is it that most of them are so uneducated as to be unemployable (often even in the most menial jobs) and they are also often socially dysfunctional (like many of their parents).

If education is considered an obligation and a right in modern society, then all Charedi "schools" should be shut down immediately.

"If its due to MBP there should be a marked imbalance of disabled between boys and girls"

Not exactly; a lot of learning disabilities aren't equally distributed between genders, and the statistics about disabilities in the communities doing MBP are pretty sparse. So easier said than done.

I am personally not a fan of MBP, but given that genetic analysis of the virus could much more definitely confirm or deny the link between an infected infant and his moghel, isn't it time that we demand that kind of precision from the scientific community? I mean, what is there to lose. Either they are proven right and more people will abstain from MBP, or they will be proven wrong and move on, instead of harping on inconclusive results.

It would be interesting to see whether the early exercise that MBP gives Hareidi infants' immune systems lowers the incidence of the hygiene-induced diseases reported in http://bit.ly/WSrFUf

PulpitRabbi –

Did you miss the last several years of MBP media coverage? HSV-1 is notorious hard to grab a sample of to match genetically. The people have to be active, the lesion visible, etc. That would mean quarantining mohels for months or even years after a baby becomes ill. The mohels and the rabbis are not cooperative with voluntary testing, etc.

Past this, you are woefully ignorant of basic science. We have overwhelming evidence that MBP transmits disease and kills babies. The only people who dispute this are crazy or downright evil – and all of them are haredi or Orthodox Jews.

There is no legitimate doubt here.

There is the indisputable factual truth on one hand, and the religious doctrine held by hasidim and many haredim that contradicts that truth on the other.

Put more simply for you, your rebbe or rabbi can insist the moon is made of green cheese, the earth is flat, or that just over 5,000 years ago, man and dinosaurs lived together on this earth; he can insist that sucking an open wound in a 8-day-old infant doesnt dramatically increase the risk of disease transmission or that the hundreds of documented syphilis infections in male Jewish babies not yet two weeks old had nothing to do with MBP, even though no new infections happened after MBP was discontinued. Your rabbis can insist all of these things are reality and so can you.

But no matter how much you cry, how much you plead, how much you demand; no matter how great your communal temper tantrum is, you are still wrong.

The truth is still the truth; the facts are still the facts; and lies and your fantasies are still lies and fantasies.

As long as your rabbis and rebbes are given the freedom to continue to risk the lives of Jewish babies, Jewish babies will be sickened, some will be maimed and some will die.

PulpitRabbi--Keep on living in youre make beleive world that is detached from reality,so that you will feel good about youre false fake life.

I think PulpitRabbi is a modern, perhaps even non Ortho rabbi who may not have been aware of the extensive material that has been covered here about MBP.
Even I who have kept up about this troubling topic thought ---when PulpitRabbi made his suggestion--- that here was a solution. And there could be.
If the chassidim and Haredim wish to continue MBP, then their mohelim need to be registered: name, photo, spitum sample which in turn could tell their herpes status as well as get a genetic picture. This should be ordered as pikuach ha nefesh. Twenty years from now when shlomi piloni shows us sick, the records could be consulted.
I know. It will never happen in America. But if it could be made to happen in Israel, perhaps then here. Until a miracle of dancing haredi rabbis shows up to cajole their fellows, best just to dream.
But I believe one day it will happen.

He is a haredi rabbi based in Europe.

Even I who have kept up about this troubling topic thought ---when PulpitRabbi made his suggestion--- that here was a solution. And there could be.
If the chassidim and Haredim wish to continue MBP, then their mohelim need to be registered: name, photo, spitum sample which in turn could tell their herpes status as well as get a genetic picture. This should be ordered as pikuach ha nefesh. Twenty years from now when shlomi piloni shows us sick, the records could be consulted.
I know. It will never happen in America. But if it could be made to happen in Israel, perhaps then here. Until a miracle of dancing haredi rabbis shows up to cajole their fellows, best just to dream.
But I believe one day it will happen.

You clearly dont know much about HSV-1 samples, testing, etc. What you hope for will kill babies. Read up on it.

THE POPYYTATYO SALAD KILLED JOIM AN S NOY,RT AMOMENT TIOOOO DOOOOJN

Pulpit Rabbi, I like the idea of intensive and effective screening mohelim, if such a thing provides water tight prevention of a known sekanah. Prevention is more important than retribution. Such screening is difficult to implement; first it requires medical expertise to oversee, its efficacy is not yet clear, and community support is needed. Perhaps consider a temporary ban on MBP until *all* the conditions for effective screening can be met.

Finally: please consider starting a blog/website on this issue; one designed for grass roots activism to bring about positive change.

When reading comments, articles, posts, and editorials one can often get an idea what the agenda of the writer actually is. Please keep that in mind.

"THE POPYYTATYO SALAD KILLED JOIM AN S NOY,RT AMOMENT TIOOOO DOOOOJN"

Posted by: turning point | March 31, 2013 at 10:39 AM

I'll alert the Dept. of Ag.

I know that Pakistanis in Britain have 13x the disabilities due to inbreeding and marrying cousins. I can imagine other insular groups would be the same.

I would like to see the disability rate between the different forms of circumcision.

I think, other than obvious deformities which occur much later in their civilization, some of the first indicators of inbreeding extinction are a reduction in their numbers and number of births in a family. Is this occurring?

Queen Elizabeth and Prince Phillip are cousins. If you line up their children, what do you notice?

There is a difference between inbreeding extinction and an increase of undesireable traits due to recessive genes. Not too many humans anywhere are even close to inbreeding extinction, thank goodness.

On the other hand, how desireable are the four legged walkers of Turkey or the Blue people of Kentucky?

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