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March 15, 2013

A Photo From A Satmar Matzoh Bakery Says Much About Satmar Education

Shmurah MatzohA photo from a matzoh bakery run by Satmar hasidim in Kiryas Joel says much about Satmar's education system.

The misspelled sign reads "Hull Veet." It should read, "Whole Wheat." The secular education of most Satmar males stops between the 3rd to 8th grades, and consists of a couple hours of secular studies late in a long school day. This sign is allegedly a product of that education:

Satmar Matzoh Bakery Whole Wheat spelled Hull Veet watermarked
[Hat Tip: Chazal Qaeda.]

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It's a joke, you really think they don't know how to spell whole wheat. You don't understand the chasidic culture. It was probably written on Purim.

Painted on the side of a bus in Williamsburg:

4mens bikur cholim

It's Hebonics. That's how it sounds when a person raised on Eastern European Yiddish says it.

Vas ist zo funny. Das is richtig... no?

Veet is a depilatory product. Hull is the body of a ship. Therefore "Hull Veet" is a special matzoh that removes hair from ships. It's perfectly logical. But Shmarya is so much like Julius Streicher, blogging in his underwear in his mom's basement, that he pretends chassidim don't know how to spell. Of course they can! Learning talmud makes one a genius, and Daas Toyreh knows everything. (Humor)

YL, LOL... I also googled Hull and Veet but didn't put them so obviously together...

shabbat shalom to you and all the rest of you heathen anti-Semite humorless blogging misanthropes in your (hopefully clean) underwear in your mothers' basements.

hey Yochanan,you will be hearing from my attorney,i have a copyright on that phrase "Shmaryah should change his name to Juilus Streicher," but i am glad it's catching on.
Hope and pray that this modern day Julius Streicher,will have the same end as his namesake, (dangling from the gallows)
and that day will certainly be another PURIM fest for all of us

hey Yochanan,you will be hearing from my attorney,i have a copyright on that phrase "Shmaryah should change his name to Juilus Streicher," but i am glad it's catching on.
Hope and pray that this modern day Julius Streicher,will have the same end as his namesake, (dangling from the gallows)
and that day will certainly be another PURIM fest for all of us.

Eli: Full disclosure: I'm blogging commando style ;)

Ah yes, once again, the true ugly head of judaism pokes through.

No understanding of humor, but the wish to kill others for having a different opinion is strong.

Referring to s.s.c.h.n.t.j.s.

Should change his name to "He who wants to kill everything he disagrees with".

Must be a typo

To Eli and the rest of you.
How do you know that Shmarya is wearing underwear?
The writers of this poster know exactly how to write proper english. They are working illigally and on the black market and are trying to avoid the IRS and the health dept.

bobover chusid --You should change youre name to shoite chussid.

Shmaryah,should change his name to Julius Streicher

And you sir should change your name to: "Better part of me ran down my mother's butt crack".

Shmarya serves a purpose in this world, do you?

My chassidishe neighbor comes to me to use the internet whenever he writes an email to a company or someone asks me how to spell every other sentence i am still amazed how his spelling is similar to a 3rd grader i am not kidding shamrya is 1 billion per cent correct and not only in spelling but speaking english i always ask where he was born they all tell me they were born here in usa it never ceases to amaze me how they manage to ignore the language of their birth country .

That looks like a sign from Eli's Bagel in Spring Valley. Eli Solomon is on the school board denying an education to the East Ramapo Kids. How many of the drop-outs does Eli see when they are shaping up everyday outside his store everyday?

Jancibacsi,
I don't want to nasty, but your spelling is not the type to win spelling bees, is it?

steven k

English is Jancibacsis 5th or 6th language, not his first.

steven k--You need improvment in the english language youreself, you write i dont want to nasy?english is my 5th language,besides i never ever spell that atrocious like the sign above.

Wondering why it's in Latin (i.e. English) characters,instead of saying הול וויט ?

++Shmaryah,should change his name to Julius Streicher | March 15, 2013 at 01:10 PM++

Please tell me, who was Julius Streicher? Wasn't that Groucho Marx's real name? Do you think Shmarya is another Groucho Marx? What do you have against Groucho Marx? Wasn't he a great comedian, and he was Jewish? Please explain yourself.

i think this is one of the only sites in the world, where one group, and one group only is ridiculed and made fun off. as a psyhcologist it shows me that shmarya has to constantly fight his urge to do tshuva by saying look who these fithy people are. well i have good news for you shmarya were here to stay. and the all good almighty will accept you if you only say loud and clear, hashem i am a sinner, a snake i love bathing in my freinds mistakes and misfortune. it gives me the high. oh hashem you know best why i left the torah life it was too pure for my tormented soul.i like too besmirch my fellow jew,im just a miserable human being. oh hashem take me out hell. i will be a good and kind person. and hashem will say shmarya my son its never too late come back do tshuva.

Mark 3:27,

You're a psychologist? You can't even spell psychologist, and you can't even write a coherent sentence. And you sound delusional.

Where did you get your degree? The Lubavitcher Yeshiva, no doubt?

"as a psyhcologist it shows me"

That you spell like a third grader? If I do tshuva will I get to be as dumb as you?

as a psyhcologist it shows me that shmarya has to constantly fight his urge to do tshuva by saying look who these fithy people are.

As a rational person, I read your comment and I see a cult member who is incapable of rational thought, and a an alleged psychologist who should never be allowed to treat patients.

Posted by: Mark | March 15, 2013 at 03:27 PM

So following your logic, a Haredi site that ridicules MO, Conservative and Reform, Blacks and Hispanics is a healthier site solely because it denigrates more than one group.

We have a former president who asked " Is our children learning?" (Florence, S.C., Jan. 11, 2000)
A former vice president who couldn't spell potato.

"Educated" non-Chassidic, working class Americans, who make such ingenious mistakes asuch as this http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb64/Smartcor/FunnyStuff/WalmartCake.jpg

Bust noooo, Satmer is the REAL problem.

The Hassidics are the root of all evil.

Unreal how pure hatred can blind a person.

WoolSilkCotton,ask your friend Shmaryah,who Streicher was,he should now,he was Shmaryah's hero and mentor,and by now Shmaryah has way surpassed his mentor with his sick degenarate evil nazi hate propaganda against his fellow jews,no wonder all the nazi white power web sites have links to this antisemitic sewer called FM,let's all hope and pray,that this piece of jew hating piece of human garbage has exactly the same end as his hero and mentor Julius Streicher

Shmaryah,should change his name to Julius Streicher

Idiot.

Those Nazi sites have lots of links to Haaretz and the Jerusalem Post and Ynet. Are all those site Nazi sitesw? Are all of them Julius Streichers handiwork?

Past the blatant stupidity of you and your remarks, little boy, unlike you I have actually risked my life to save Jews and I spent years – not a few minutes here and there, but years – doing it.

Now toddle off and bow down to your dead rebbe.

A Simple Yid @ 04:29 PM -

Satmar is indeed a real problem. Not THE real problem; they share the distinction with other haredi sects.

And "The Hassidics" are not the root of ALL evil. Just their fair share of it.

Looks like Yossi's group had too much time on their hands today! The Ruv should give them something better to do.

they spelled it the way they pronounce it

I think this photo is quite funny. I don't think it's a reason for a sneering attack on a group that has chosen English to be only its 2nd or 3rd language.

Notwithstanding their many sins and unhealthy or sometimes dangerous weirdness, I'm happy someone is maintaining Yiddish as their first spoken language.

Posted by: WoolSilkCotton, I am a work of art as well as a sports and rock superstar | March 15, 2013 at 03:35 PM

That is what I was thinking as I read the comment. WSC, whats this rock superstar, nonsense? It sounds really weird.

@Jancsi, what other languages do you speak?

You know, we can laugh at that sign, or other people can attack Shmarya, and maybe I'm taking this all too seriously....but this is not funny.

There is NOTHING funny about someone growing up or being raised in this country who can't speak or spell proper English.

There's nothing funny about that sign. What that sign is...is scary. And it's tragic. When you think about- and I have thought about it- what kind of future does someone have in this country who can't read or write or speak proper English.

Well, as a lawyer who deals with a client base that is 90% latino- many of whom have the same weaknesses- I'll tell you. It's a life of manual labor. It's a life lived on the margins. It's a life that never earns above a certain level.

Not that those are bad things. Any honest labor is honorable. Nor does a person need to earn a certain level of income to be a "good" person, or a "contributing member of society".

But my clients were born that way- or they were dragged into the United States as children by their parents.

The frums in this country have DELIBERATELY embraced ignorance, and it's twin brother, poverty. Neither one or both is a crime.

But deliberately raising your children to be near-illiterate and destined to a life of manual labor ...that IS a crime.

And a tragedy.

Well said Robert J. Barron, Attorney-at-Law!

Robert Barron: In a survey of poor American communities compiled by the census bureau a few years ago, Kiryas Joel and New Square appeared in the top 100. Detroit did not make the top 100 and neither did East St. Louis, communities typically associated with black ghettos and little else. The two Hasidic communities shared the list with Indian reservation communities as well as colonias near the Mexican-US border. Eventually, there will be a backlash against the Hasidics as their neighbors get tired of subsidizing them with their tax dollars. My guess is that Rockland County or Orange County, NY will be ground zero for the backlash.

Rocky, I believe you. But frankly, a backlash? Maybe, maybe not. If you look at how this country deals with poverty among the various groups that you have listed, it's a pretty basic approach that more or less keeps a those populations "where they are", economically, so to speak, but does not provide anything as far as a means of advancement.

Indian reservations- tribal trust checks and various government benefits on the reservations. (Health care, schools, etc)

Inner cities, populated by poor people, both White and African-American- food stamps, TANF (Temporary Aid to Needy Families), Section 8 housing subsidies.

Colonias on the Mexican-US Border- Food stamps, Medicaid, etc.

(I was a Political Science major in college-so I know of what I speak- I hope!)

And the frums in the communities you mentioned- the same "buy-offs", for lack of a better term. Food stamps, Section 8 subsidies, Medicaid, etc....

Backlash? Rocky, we are talking about programs that have been in existence for decades. I'm not saying there won't be a backlash- but I would not expect in the near future. Or the far future, either.

That's the "devil's bargain" public policy has made with these groups- we'll give you enough to where you aren't starving in the streets or living in tents- and in turn, you'll stay content to be poor and not riot in the streets.

But the difference between the inner cities, the Indian Reservations, the colonias, and for that matter, those who live in Appalachian poverty- and our brothers and sisters in Kiryas Joel and New Square- is that the frums have DELIBERATELY CHOSEN ignorance and poverty. As I said previously, that's both a crime and a tragedy.

But not in irreversible tragedy. Jeff, who sometimes contributes here, does not believe that lifestyle is going to last more than a couple of generations, as the internet eventually shows those people that you can still be an observant jew and not be poor and ignorant all your life.

(SIGH)...one can only hope he's right

Hasidic education is a very poor joke

Posted by: Robert J. Barron, Attorney-at-Law | March 15, 2013 at 07:52 PM


well said.

But not in irreversible tragedy. Jeff, who sometimes contributes here, does not believe that lifestyle is going to last more than a couple of generations, as the internet eventually shows those people that you can still be an observant jew and not be poor and ignorant all your life.

(SIGH)...one can only hope he's right

Posted by: Robert J. Barron, Attorney-at-Law | March 15, 2013 at 10:20 PM
______________________________________

I don't think it will be due solely to the Internet, however, and I don't think they'll willing change en masse. It's rather that their subculture is collapsing. They're reproducing irresponsibly and can no longer provide for their growing numbers. Also, the outside world is impinging upon their xenophobic society (and yes, the Internet is at least partly responsible for that). The pressure originates from within and without. I don't think it will take the form of an exodus from that world as much as a general collapse, increasing further their dependence upon social services, and making that dependence even more visible. They're heading for a very ugly, very public fall - and all the way down, they'll be screaming, "Nu nu, we'll bury you! Your grandchildren won't be Jewish!" I'd say the Jewish agencies should step in at that point and try to train and educate them, but who has the money now?* The Haredim should have been willing to change two generations ago.

As far as a "backlash" is concerned, there is an important distinction between Haredi communities and the others mentioned above; the Haredim make themselves a visible burden. They behave obnoxiously to those outside of their subculture, sometimes using them as means to an end (e.g., the Ramapo School Board). I think Rocky may be right; the "goyishe velt" will only put up with it for so long. We can see the unfolding of it in Israel, now.

(*Eh, perhaps Sheldon Adelson will step up to the plate. They do vote Republican.)

Jeff, your analysis and forecast is...interesting. And based upon what you've posted here previously, I think you have more current exposure to that community than I do.

It' just that I question your, I guess, cause and consequences chain. Yes, they are reproducing irresponsibly. Yes, they can no longer provide for their growing numbers.

But a "general collapse", and a "very, very public fall"?

Jeff, it was almost 50 years ago that Lyndon Johnson launched the "War on Poverty". And you know what happened?

POVERTY WON! (Well, maybe that's simplistic, but I think you see my point)
No one expected that the problems of the inner cities would continue to exist so many decades afterwards, and in the 80's and early 90's, with the advent of crack and AIDS, those problems acutely worsened.

But who noticed (much less did anything) besides the people who's job it is to watch these things, and/or report on them, and/or administer the programs (TANF, Food Stamps, Section 8, Medicaid, etc) that provide a bare, basic lifeline to those people?

Well, at the risk of insulting your intelligence, I'll tell you- nobody. Nobody noticed. Nobody really cared. I"m not saying that lack of caring is good or bad. It's just the way we deal with poverty in this country.

I frankly hope you're right- that the subculture does collapse- from pressures both within and without, and that our brothers and sisters no longer have to lead lives of poverty and ignorance. But I'm not optimistic.

This subculture seems to be so enraptured with the world to come, that it pays very little attention to the world in which it lives. Again, a tragedy.

But great to see you posting again.

As a classical liberal (i.e. libertarian) my feelings are that the "War on Poverty" has been only slightly less odious then the "War on Drugs" and the "War on Terror". Seriously, you can't declare war on things and expect it to turn out well.

This subculture seems to be so enraptured with the world to come, that it pays very little attention to the world in which it lives. Again, a tragedy.
___________________________________________

And you know, my nephew insists, stubbornly, that concern about the afterlife isn't what motivates frum Jews. When I tell him Haredim constantly threaten me with dire postmortem consequence, he tells me it's only the Haredim I encounter online. At one point, when I was adamant that he was wrong, he suggested it was only the Modern Orthodox, who'd absorbed such notions from the Christian culture. Seriously; he actually tried to blame the Modern Orthodox (because, as he'll happily tell you, Modern Orthodoxy doesn't work).

Robert, what you say about the War on Poverty would appear to validate my argument. Nothing will be done, and their subculture will collapse. As to what will happen to individuals is concerned - I couldn't tell you. Perhaps some will become MO, some will become secular, some will hang on in isolated pockets. Who knows? Perhaps I'm entirely wrong, and they'll gradually modernize, start becoming educated and give up these regressive beliefs and practices - but even if that does happen, it's going to be a long, bumpy road.

Posted by: Jeff | March 16, 2013 at 05:30 AM" I'd say the Jewish agencies should step in at that point and try to train and educate them, but who has the money now?*"

Jeff, take a look at the Forbes 400 list. There plenty of Jews on it, I'd guess 1 in 4 was at least born Jewish or considers himself Jewish, even if not religious. When the JTA did a review of the list a few years ago, they used the Nazi definition of who is a Jew and came up with about 1 in 3. They received so many complaints that they have never published an update after that. On a list of major donors in 2012 published by Forbes recently, again many of the names were Jewish. But only two were were linked to major Jewish/Israel donations (Irwin Jacobs and Sheldon Adelson). Medical research and universities appear to be the big winners among Jews on the Forbes list.

Posted by: Jeff | March 16, 2013 at 12:46 PM

From a total of twelve nieces, I have one niece who is in her late 20’s and just started college, she is majoring in phycology, she wants to be a counselor for victims of sexual abuse, and battered woman. She never went to high school, last summer she took the GED test; currently she is a full time student and a mom of three. Her father is not happy but, she and her husband decided that it is a good thing. This woman is not modern she doesn’t even wear a wig. Nevertheless, she and her husband are part of a small but growing group which believe that if was ok for Maimonides (RaMBaM) to be educated, and still be a good Jew, they could be educate too.

This is what I see, as more and more adults in the states decide on their own, it is ok to get a professional education; they will put pressure on the Yeshivas to educate their children. Within a few generations, you will see a sizeable Chasidic community that will be educated.

Nevertheless, in Israel, I don’t see any improvement, unless the government stops all government giveaways, to adults who study for life.

Joe Field, that is a good point. Change has to come from within, when people decide to use their own brains and want to get a real education and become productive citizens.

Even if you gave a trillion dollars to all the chassidic groups and said "use this money to get secular education and training so you don't have to be on welfare", they would not do it because the rebbe says no. In fact, that money would disappear into the hands of the corrupt leadership.

Same is probably true for a lot of the money given to the "war on poverty". Much of it was stolen by the crooks who were the 'leaders' in poor communities. I still wonder how much Al Sharpton pocketed from government programs that benefitted his organizations.
When I see African Americans working where I do, as doctors, nurses, technicians, etc. it is because they worked, studied, and used opportunities while others went back to sleep and stayed on welfare.
It took them several generations to succeed.

they don't know hebrew either, lucky for them that yiddish is a non-language without rules to speak of. they are stone age proto jews.
apart from that, if this is their orthograph, what can one expect for hygiene in their matza? nutria hair falling fon their shtreimels with every other bite?

bobover chusid --You should change youre name to shoite chussid.


reb jancsi, aren't they all sheutim?

Posted by: WoolSilkCotton | March 16, 2013 at 04:12 PM

You are one hundred percent right; and you even explained it better than I did, no matter what we OTD, conservative, reform Jews or atheist vent, argue, bag, it will not change, maybe an individual but, not the community. As you said changes must come from within, but for the first few generations the process will be rocky, but hopefully, human nature will induce others to also take the plunge.

Sorry, typo should say, “beg”

Well Joe, perhaps you're right. Perhaps they are beginning to change. It would certainly be the preferable outcome - although I hope it won't take several generations.

@Yosef ben Matitya
Yiddish is indeed a language with rules of grammar.
Please don't confuse modern-day Anglicized Chasidish with Yiddish.

I am shocked, shocked at all the Shabbos desecration above. This is your oneg?

Yiddish is indeed a language, or at the very least a dialect, with grammar, rules, and vocabulary. Chassidic Yiddish is a different dialect from classical literary Yiddish, both Northern and Southern. It borrows more Hebrew and Aramaic terms, and even English. It is okay to preserve a 1000 year old language at home, and to be bilingual. It is not okay to be ignorant of the language of the land. To the best of my knowledge, Jews were never ignorant of the predominant gentile languages of their host countries, in the past. This "ancient" custom is yet another innovation of Chassidism/Chareidism, which is really a Reform Judaism of the Right rather than an "authentic" timeless faith.

It is not a joke. I have satmar friends and their husbands can NOT spell (the wives can, they even write for magazines - religious and secular).

YL: Most of the Yiddish language is based on German as it was spoken in the Middle Ages, with religious terms taken from Hebrew (and Aramaic?) and some words adapted from the Slavic languages. In the shtetls of Galicia, Jews grew up speaking Yiddish, but they could also communicate with their Christian neighbors in Polish or Ukrainian and when they came to the New World, they learned English. In my old neighborhood, just about all of the older Jews spoke in Yiddish, as their everyday language, unless they had left the old country at a very young age. I never heard any of them speak in German, although some undoubtedly could speak it.

Jeff,
You always mention your Chabad nephew.I"m curious and this is a bit of a personal question: In light of your views of Chareidim, are you close or have a decent relationship with your nephew?

Jeff,
You always mention your Chabad nephew.I"m curious and this is a bit of a personal question: In light of your views of Chareidim, are you close or have a decent relationship with your nephew?
Posted by: steven k | March 17, 2013 at 01:51 AM
____________________________________________

Not any longer. He got married about a year ago to the daughter of a highly-placed shliach, and of course, she was pregnant five minutes later. I spent eight or nine years, since he was a teenager, arguing with him about his views (even when he considered himself Modern Orthodox, he accepted without qualification whatever crap the local Chabad guys told him), and six of the past seven, once he entered Chabad, trying to wean him away from that world. Now he’s signified his intention to remain in it permanently and to bring up his children in ignorance, repression, and in all likelihood, poverty. He's as much as told me he has no intention of giving them a secular education. I am absolutely disgusted.

I want to emphasize that I never tried to get him to give up Orthodoxy. In fact, for years I tried to persuade him to attend YU. Granted, it wouldn’t have been my first choice – he attended Maimonides School, the school founded by Rav Soloveitchik, which routinely sends kids to Ivy League universities, and I would have preferred a secular school to an Orthodox institution – but considering the alternative, I’d have accepted it graciously.

But no, his Chabad handlers told him the Rebbe forbade college in all but a few exceptional circumstances, so that was the end of that. The fact that a number of Lubavitchers have college degrees is, apparently, irrelevant.

One day, he’ll wake up and realize he’s trapped himself but it will probably be too late. In any case, I simply can’t deal with it any longer, Steven. My contempt for fundamentalism aside, everything he says, everything he believes is absolutely off the wall. Not to make it about me, but I feel as though I wasted nearly a decade of my life, and I’m no kid any more.

That boy has a first-class mind, yet he's swinging chickens over his head and believes gentiles have the souls of animals. There are simply no words.

(And if any of his Lubavitch friends are lurking and read this - which has happened in the past - they may feel free to show it to him.)

Very sad. Maimonides does send many to Ivies however at least when a cousin of my wife's attended there in the 70s they were very unaccepting of girls who questioned their teachings. She had a rough time on that basis despite (? because of) being a highly intellectual and well-spoken daughter of a conservative Rabbi who was himself an academic. Ultimately she became an Ivy League trained architect who did most of her work in Israel before returning here to live with her family. They live a conservative lifestyle. Her younger sister flat out refused to attend Maimonides and graduated from Newton North HS. She eventually became MO. Go figure.

Go figure, indeed.

I don't know what to think about Maimonides. On the one hand, my nephew has told me that it has become so "liberal" that the Soloveitchik family is a little reluctant to associate with it (which I don't believe to be the case). On the other, a friend whose daughters went there (although they're now in their forties, so there is a generational difference) told me she had to take them out, as they told her it was so far to the right that if they stayed, they'd give up Judaism altogether.

Of course, my nephew spins things constantly to accord with his world view, and I've heard a couple of stories about the school, and I briefly knew one of his teachers, so the bottom line is that I see it as more being more rightward than leftward.

I don't know what it was like when the Rav was alive. He was certainly no religious liberal, but very near his death, he told Yitz Greenberg, "Don't let them move you to the right." My understanding is that he advocated a "middle path" (so perhaps he was really a Buddhist!).

And you know what really pisses me off? He left Maimo at the beginning of his senior year to run off and join the Chabad circus, and the faculty and administration made little-to-no effort to stop him. The teacher I mentioned above told me, years later, in an attempt to rationalize his inaction, "Well, that was where his neshomo was." Uh huh.

I understand they lost three boys to Chabad over a period of a few years around that same time. Useless bloody fools. The Rav must be spinning in his grave.

Jeff, your nephew is an adult. These are his (admittedly fucked up) decisions to make. The best you can do now is to maintain a distant but friendly relationship with your nephew, and be there for any offspring of his that want to leave.

Yes, you're right (although I doubt I'll live that long). It's just one situation that illustrates my disenchantment with humanity in general, faith junkies in particular. Put it on the pile.

Oh - and he only THINKS he's an adult!

This is either a joke or fake:

18 minute hand Matzah that's ShMur Me'Shaat HeKetzriah is *always wholewheat*. (The flour isn't bleached because of the concern that it might leaven during the bleaching process.)

"(And if any of his Lubavitch friends are lurking and read this - which has happened in the past - they may feel free to show it to him.)"

Posted by: Jeff | March 17, 2013 at 05:06 AM

You obviously know that he won't care. I just don't get how people continue to buy the Chabad bull crap. I don't mean the Jewish part, I mean the Chabad lies part.

It was the Chabad line (almost mantra) for years and years that: Mashiach has to be a living breathing person that you can point to. That among the characteristics of Mashiach is the in-gathering of the exiles That if you look around today (back then) which Rav/Rebbe is the most involved with the in-gathering (kiruv)? The Lubavitcher Rebbe is. So you must conclude that the Rebbe is Mashiach. As soon as the Rebbe died everyone said, "well we didn't mean exactly that","we never said that" "the Rebbe is still alive" etc etc bs bs bs. I CALL BULLSHIT!

Jeff's nephew or his friends, lets see you answer that one.

It seems to me that some misplace the blame for poor English with certain Orthodox yeshivos that pointedly exclude the study of secular subjects from their curricula.

I think the United States is sufficiently pluralistic and tolerant, as a society, to allow various language, culture and religious subgroupings the latitude to conduct their education systems in the language they see fit, even of not in English.

Indeed, German was the language of instruction in many American schools (and of Christian faith communities) for much of the 19th century, and we emerged no poorer for the experience.

I think the fault of these yeshiva communities lies with a false reimagining of the European shetel, and the consequent effort to recreate the same based on this never-never land, idyllic vision of shetl as a paragon to be emulated.

I have no problem if a yeshiva chooses Yiddish (or Hebrew, or Amharic or Klingon for that matter) as a its language of instruction. But let the underlying education be no less comprehensive and rigorous. And it is on that score that the yeshivas fail.

>>"

This is either a joke or fake:

18 minute hand Matzah that's ShMur Me'Shaat HeKetzriah is *always wholewheat*. (The flour isn't bleached because of the concern that it might leaven during the bleaching process.)

Posted by: Iarwain Ben Adar | March 17, 2013 at 12:38 PM "<<

Idiot.

And how does that explains why these matzoh bakeries sell regular and whole wheat versions, and the whole wheat is markedly different from the regular.

Oh, that's right – you're a rocket scientist.

Process: bleaching is a different process than removing the bran.

I just don't get how people continue to buy the Chabad bull crap. I don't mean the Jewish part, I mean the Chabad lies part.

Posted by: ca | March 17, 2013 at 01:48 PM
____________________________________________

Well, you know my answer to that one. This is the result of decades of letting in every fringe personality who knocked on the door. "You want to join Chabad? It's obviously the pintele yid asserting itself!" It would never occur to them that wanting suddenly to take on the full burden of observance would be indicative of a need for psychiatric care. And even if they were to recognize a mental illness - "A psychiatrist? Who needs that goyishe narrishkeit? Just say tehillim and you'll be fine!"

I have no problem if a yeshiva chooses Yiddish (or Hebrew, or Amharic or Klingon for that matter) as a its language of instruction
___________________________________________

Oh, that would be cool - a Klingon yeshiva! "Kaplah, Rebbe!"

As soon as the Rebbe died everyone said, "well we didn't mean exactly that","we never said that" "the Rebbe is still alive" etc etc bs bs bs. I CALL BULLSHIT!

Posted by: ca | March 17, 2013 at 01:53 PM
_______________________________________________

The (almost) funny thing about my nephew is that he blames the BT's for the rampant meshiachism. He's convinced himself he was born into it. He's almost like Zelig.

However, he did once say to me something along the lines of, "Every Lubavitcher both believes and doesn't believe the Rebbe is moshiach." I think he's conflicted, and he thinks the raging meshiachists are mentally ill, but I think that at some level, he believes it to be true.

Yep that sums it up. They also won't say the Rebbe was wrong, when he clearly was. The funny thing is I can reconcile most of the contradictions. It's when mr brethern try to defend the crazy positions and show how it is thst the Rebbe clearly held certain ways etc (even though it's completely clear that if he held the way they are saying he was wrong and they are delusional) that is what really pushes me away. They force me to confront the idiocy, when the are trying to "save" me.

I know that was convoluted. :)

Not at all; I understand you perfectly. I've seen this phenomenon before. The more they try to convince you they're right, the harder they make it for you to withdraw into a state of denial. They're actually working against themselves, but they don't see it - classic fundamentalist behavior.

Unless you mean this as a joke, you are once again proving how stupid you can be.

I know plenty of kids in non-Satmar day schools who can't spell. Or read Hebrew, for that matter.

No school is perfect, there are tremendous holes in education across the board.

Nit pick. Idiot.

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