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February 24, 2013

Women's Laughter May Cause Yeshiva Students To Sin

Purim GroggerWomen and girls should stay out of sight and out of hearing on Purim, a haredi modesty ad in Monsey says. And if they must be where men can see or hear them, they certainly should not laugh, because their laughter could cause "innocent" haredi yeshiva students to sin – i.e., to masturbate.

Monsey Community Connections newpaper pre-Purim edition 2013 Tznius reminder ad
[Hat Tip: HeathenHassid.]

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"Be Proud To Be Like Esther HaMalka!"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Esther live in the king's brothel, get married to a non-Jew, bore his child, and live with non-Jews for most of her adult life?

And let's not forget those parties Esther HaMalka threw for the the king and Haman - both who were men. Something tells me there was no seperate seating at those parties.

If you don't want your girls to mingle with men, the last thing to tell them is to be like Esther HaMalka!

two numbers listed, which to call and harass?

Neither.

Frankly, whenever I'm trying hard to sin, I do not find it very encouraging to hear a woman laughing....

It seems that nearly every day a fatwa-type pronouncement is issued by some haredi rabbi, marginalizing women and further separating them from from haredi men in some way. It is time for a sociologist at a university to conduct an independent study of this cult to fully understand the long-term impact of this marginalization and separation, and determine if it causes a higher incidence of sexual child abuse in the haredi community vs. the non-haredi Jewish community.

Abracadabra - I read many years ago that the story of ester the whole megillh is a made up story , it was an archeology magazine that wrote about it, it never happened.

I hate this fucking holiday. We commemorate having escaped genocide by celebrating our having committed it. Seriously, WTF?

The costumes turn it into a sort of low-rent Halloween, and services are like a cheap attempt at Surrealism. It's what would happen if Evangelicals tried to become Dadaists for a day.

The pastries aren't even any damn good.

I'm given to understand there are a lot of frum women who can't stand it, either. They work like animals baking, entertaining, making (or at least buying) costumes for the kids, while their good-for-nothing husbands do nothing but get drunk and vomit.

And of course, the frum idiots (especially the Lubavitchers) attempt to rationalize it by imbuing it with all sorts of Kabbalistic nonsense. (Because you know, we don't have enough of that already.)

It's high time to cashier this thing once and for all.

(And yes, frum idiots, I know - I don't understand, I'm an am ha'aretz, my poor neshomo, I'll burn in gehinnom, yadda yadda. Take it outside.)

It is time for a sociologist at a university to conduct an independent study of this cult to fully understand the long-term impact of this marginalization and separation, and determine if it causes a higher incidence of sexual child abuse in the haredi community vs. the non-haredi Jewish community.

Posted by: Runner1983 | February 24, 2013 at 04:53 AM

Generations of enforced gender-segregation, coupled with early marriage and huge families. They have no idea of how to relate to one another; the entire subculture is in a state of arrested development - and of course, the inbreeding only makes it worse.

An old man raping a little boy bothers them not at all - but let a young man catch a glimpse of a young woman's bare ankle, and they all go batcrap crazy.

Lives are destroyed, and they don't give a rat's ass. Someone eats a piece of cholov stam cheesecake, and the universe implodes.

Psychopaths.

I hate this fucking holiday. We commemorate having escaped genocide by celebrating our having committed it. Seriously, WTF?

First, the story is ahistorical.
Second, there is nothing in the megillah about our committing "genocide" (unlike, say, stories in Joshua which clearly are genocidal). Read it again.

Surely this is a Purim joke.

Frum women also hate this holiday because the minute it's over, they have to devote every waking moment for the next four weeks to clean for Passover---and the last thing they need are ten dozen hamantaschen sitting around the house.

First, the story is ahistorical.
Second, there is nothing in the megillah about our committing "genocide" (unlike, say, stories in Joshua which clearly are genocidal). Read it again.

1. Yes, I know the story is fictitious. Patronize much?

2. The murder of all of Haman's children, then crowing about it for 2,500 years.

3. The associated Torah references to Amalek, not to mention every frum rabbi of the past two millennia insisting upon drawing connections between the narratives.

I just noticed that the ad mentions that it has been brought to you "in the merit of Shalom Mordechai, son of Rivkah (Rubashkin)." So the question to ask this Purim is---is it worse for a man to exploit his workers, cheat the government, etc., or for a woman to laugh?

Obviously, this jerk prefers the sound of women weeping. Historical or not, I have often found it ironic that the only real Jewish celebration involving a heroic woman concerns a Jewish woman who married a non-Jew. Since I did the same, I guess there's hope for me yet, eh?

Jeff - that's because you have never tried MY homemade hamantaschen. I make the old fashioned raised yeast kind.

Jeff - that's because you have never tried MY homemade hamantaschen. I make the old fashioned raised yeast kind.

I still wouldn't like them. Jewish baked goods in general leave a lot to be desired, in my opinion.

I just noticed that the ad mentions that it has been brought to you "in the merit of Shalom Mordechai, son of Rivkah (Rubashkin)." So the question to ask this Purim is---is it worse for a man to exploit his workers, cheat the government, etc., or for a woman to laugh?


Oh God, does it really? One more reason to detest Chabad.

Just put it on the pile.

Apologies to: Captain Jack by Billy Joel

Saturday night, and groggers twirling around.
Tired of living in your one shul town.
You'd like to find a little hole you can pound,
For awhile.
So you go read Megillah with your yichus genes.
And you stare at the flunkies and the Esther queens.
It's like Nat Geographic Magazine,
And you smile.

But Captain Glatt [Rubashkin] will get you high tonight,
From Brooklyn to Manhattan island.
Captain Glatt will get you by tonight.
Just a little push, and you'll be smilin'.

Your sister's laughing,while munching dates.
You must run back home to masturbate.
Your smart phone will ring soon, but you just can't take
A "smart" call.
So you stand by the aron in your old Polish clothes.
And you look so Polish, from your hair down to your toes.
Oy, but still, your rabbi's gonna lick your hose
After all.

But Captain Glatt will get you high tonight,
And take Jews to your Staten Island.
Captain Glatt will get you "bi" tonight.
Just a little push, and you'll be smilin'.

So you celebrate Purim holiday.
You got your Artscroll and your hamentaschen cake.
Oy, there ain't no one to give shlach-manot away.
What for?
So you got everything, oy, but nothing's cool.
They just found your rabbi in the mikvah pool.
And you guess he won't be going back to shul
Anymore.

But Captain Glatt will get you high tonight,
And take Jews to that Staten Island.
Oy Captain Glatt will get you "bi" tonight.
Just a little push, and you'll be smilin'.

So you curse at Haman, and you drink your schnapps.
And you meet your Shidduch in the parking lot.
Oy, but still you're aching for the things you haven't got.
What went wrong?
And if you can't understand that your Rebbe is dead,
Why you've got to Purim spiel, and gei in dred.
Well you're 21 and still your rabbi sleeps in your bed,
And that's so wrong.

But Captain Glatt will get you high tonight.
And take Jews to your Staten Island.
Well nu Captain Glatt will get you by tonight.
Just a little push, and you'll be smilin'.
Oy, Captain Glatt will get you high tonight.
And take Jews to your Staten Island.
Well nu, Captain Glatt could make you die tonight.
Just a little push, and you'll be smilin'.

Very good, YL.

"Try not to be noticed.." that says it all. Women are neither to be seen nor heard. They are merely kitchen appliances, washing machines and sperm receptacles- but only in the dark.

Jeff, you write: "An old man raping a little boy bothers them not at all - but let a young man catch a glimpse of a young woman's bare ankle, and they all go batcrap crazy."

Haredim are not practicing Judaism, but something else. They are a break-away sect. Given the high incidence of child sexual abuse in the haredi community, you would think that the rabbis would want to find out why, and take proactive steps to protect haredi children. Not only do they ignore the sexual abuse, they protect the abuser and vilify, threaten and shun the victims and their families when they report the abuse to the police. Again, THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT JEWS! Too bad we can't prevent them from claiming such. They are the largest cult in existence. They live in a world of darkness. I feel bad for the children born into this cult.

They want the burka, you will see more and more burkas used by the extremist frummas. I really think this will be the straw that brakes the maidels back, this could be the tipping point, let these ignorant dopes carry on to the extreme.

I would not connect Purim with Halloween/ All Saints Eve. It's closer to the Mardi Gras folloowed by Lent leading up tp Easter, much as Purim seems to lead up toRosh Chodesh Nisan and Pesach. Purim is what you make it. To me it's the hidden Face that guides Providence throughout the Exile, which is leading us towards the Redemption. I drink enough at the Seuda to fall asleep -- in bed, not behind the wheel! Here in London, Purim is also the jahrzeit of a five star Baal Tzedakah who died in a car crash towards the end of Purim several years ago. This year it's the year of the Purim Rebbe from Divrei Chaim, released on bail this past erev Shabbos.

jeff-Did you rear what i wrote before about purim,as the saying goes if its too good to be true you know the rest,in an archeology i read that its a fabricated story the reason is that the people were very downthortten and they needed something a holiday to cheer them up so thats the reason we have purim.

First, the story is ahistorical.
Second, there is nothing in the megillah about our committing "genocide" (unlike, say, stories in Joshua which clearly are genocidal). Read it again.

Posted by: zibble | February 24, 2013 at 06:49 AM

I read it! Especially Chapter 9 verse 16.
If killing 75000 isn't genocide, it's sure a good start.

Mikanuk

Again, THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT JEWS! Too bad we can't prevent them from claiming such. They are the largest cult in existence. They live in a world of darkness. I feel bad for the children born into this cult.

Posted by: Runner1983 | February 24, 2013 at 08:30 AM

I keep saying as much. It's time to declare it publicly and cut the chord - monetarily and otherwise.

Thanks, Jeff.

Abracadabra -

it seems so obvious youre right. of course as with every other story in tanach (true or not) which involves people exhibiting flawed human traits, they'll insist the written words say no such thing. plain meanings are turned on their head, unwritten circumstances and details are added, with special pleadings thrown in until the actor in the story is an unblemished hero and holy man.
if king david the despicable adulterous murderer is whitewashed to where he's destined to be the 'father' of moshiach, then surely esther can be topsy-turvied into a model of tznius and purity.
besides, in the megillah she never laughed in front of yeshiva buchrim.

@ Eli, what me messiah? | February 24, 2013 at 03:03 AM -

good point.

Jeff -

agreed on all ....except i like a good raspberry or chocolate hamantaschen.


Yochanan Lavie -

amazing!!

i heard an interview with billy joel (ad meah v'esrim shono) in which he answered the machlokes my friends and i had as to what "captain jack" referred to. its the name of his chevra's drug dealer.

Thanks APC for the kudos and the info.

Posted by: Avi | February 24, 2013 at 08:13 AM

You are an idiot, it implies that young bachurim would sin, are you thinking theses young man will go eat in McDonald's, it is self-evident that the creator of this poster, is referring to masturbation.

hearing women laugh will cause masturbation.
this is EXACTLY WHY THESE BOYS CAN'T GO TO COLLEGE.
they've been taught that ALL IS WRONG. AND IF THEY GO AND PURSUE AN EDUCATION....they won't be able to control themselves and they just might have s.e.x.
yup.
poor boys.

Posted by: ah-pee-chorus | February 24, 2013 at 09:42 AM

The same is true about the Hasmonean, but every year the Jewish would celebrate Hanukkah. The fact is that the Hasmonean were a blood thirsty family, who killed other Jews who were Hellenized. With a sword they forced religion upon the community.

to avoid masturbation cut off your penis. And let the girls laugh.

YL 8:13, brilliant!

If the frumma thought they could get away with slaughtering people in the streets, they would do so, without a doubt.

It is amazing how the frumma are so obsessed with penises.

And in the category of all religions are the same, there is this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2054674/Roman-Catholic-churchs-paedophile-investigator-jailed-possessing-thousnds-child-porn-images.html

The same is true about the Hasmonean.

Posted by: Joe Field

yup. the wrong guys won. zealots always start with an advantage.

After having been to many Purim shindigs, the men make so much noise that you cannot hear the women in the first place...not to mention that most of the guys are drunk and totally oblivious to anything around them. This is just about power and control wrapped in religion.

The same is true about the Hasmonean, but every year the Jewish would celebrate Hanukkah. The fact is that the Hasmonean were a blood thirsty family, who killed other Jews who were Hellenized. With a sword they forced religion upon the community.

I have a bit of a soft spot for Hanukkah, so I pretend I don't know they were the rural, backwards fundamentalists of their day with a gripe against their educated, urbane, Hellenized cousins, and that they radicalized circumcision and institutionalized mutilation (and now we have to have these ludicrous battles about MBP).

I can even force myself to sit through a Passover seder every once in a while and ignore the fact that God left us in Egypt for four centuries then expected us to kiss his ass (no, I don't really believe that story, either).

Purim is too far beyond the pale. There's too much about it I simply can't ignore. "We weren't wiped out! Yay! We wiped out tens of thousands of people! Yay!"

Plus the food sucks and the costumes really creep me out.

And this business of Haman and the noisemakers. It's been 2,500 years, for God's sake. Let it go, already.

YL, nice one. I thought of this:
("Laugh, Laugh", the Beau Brummels)

I hate to say it but I told you so
The rabbis’ preaching to you
He’s a tzaddik so you trust he’ll know
Yeshivas are just as good as any school

Wouldn’t believe them when they gave advice
They know about the Torah
So consider your men and act so nice
Don’t make me say kana hora

Laugh, laugh, don’t let me hear
It isn’t funny to me
Laugh, laugh, I’d have to leer
And that would make men feel grimy
In Monsey, oh, in Monsey

Don’t try being funny when I say
You’ll get just what you deserve
If you enjoy yourself you will convey
That you’re not modest, you have a lot of nerve
Must say you’re sorry if you laugh out loud
You’ll have to pack up and go
You see we have you women oh so cowed
The rabbis do know everything there is to know

Laugh, laugh, don’t let me hear
It isn’t funny to me
Laugh, laugh, I’d have to leer
And that would make men feel grimy
In Monsey, oh, in Monsey

Before you laugh, I’d like to say one thing
I close my ears to you
Just don’t let us see or hear you
It’s part of being a good Hebrew

You say you’re allowed to talk anywhere
Don’t be so smug or else
Make sure you cover up your hair
Or you’ll wind up needing a shadchan

Laugh, laugh, don’t let me hear
It isn’t funny to me
Laugh, laugh, I’d have to leer
And that would make men feel grimy
In Monsey, oh, in Monsey

Hamentaschen, yum. Especially if it's from last year at Costco. I'm serving a tray at my Academy Awards Soiree today.

I detest Purim because it's so noisy. I have a pretty aggressive startle response and would punctuate the reading with random outbursts of a single shocked scream. I am happy not to participate. As is everyone else.

Thanks, WSC. Sarek: I don't think I know the song, but good one. I was also thinking of doing "Laughter in the Rain" by the Sephardic Sinatra.

BTW, I don't like Purim or Simchat Torah either. They're hard to enjoy if you don't have kids and I hate forced merriment. Pesach and Sukkot speak to me. I like Hanukkah for Zionist reasons, even though the Hasmoneans turned out to be dickheads.

Posted by: Jeff | February 24, 2013 at 11:24 AM
can even force myself to sit through a Passover seder every once in a while and ignore the fact that God left us in Egypt for four centuries then expected us to kiss his ass (no, I don't really believe that story, either).

With four cups of wine I could do a lot of things, but when I wake up in the morning and look at the stranger next me, I regret what I did the night before. (Pun intended)

And another thing - this business about masturbation. These boys spend what - twelve hour per day? - studying and memorizing this medieval nonsense that has no relevance to anything that's happened since before the Industrial Revolution - but God forbid they should be allowed a few moments of pleasure that the rabbis can't control. I've read about teenagers being forced to stay up for hours at night for weeks on end reciting tehillim for having one "lapse".

Miserable, sick, evil, psychopathic assholes. Forget about gradual change. That entire way of life is a form of child abuse. Dismantle their entire culture forcibly, says I. Threaten to take away the kids unless they agree to change immediately - then make good on the threat.

Oh, btw, how rude of me. If any of you also enjoy old dried up things, you are welcome at my party.

A lot of Jewish holidays start off as good ideas and potentially fun, but by the time the orthodox are through with them, you've been forced to fast, sit still through dreadfully long religious mumbled readings, miss work and give up most of your vacation days, and otherwise have the holiday shoved down your throat for 8 unnecessary days, endless cleaning and cooking, and uncomfortably rejoicing over atrocities committed by Jews in the name of revenge.

And if you don't observe every one of the orthodox rules, God will smite you, because God is always angry at us. But hey, God loves you, they claim. Sort of like an abusive relationship.

but by the time the orthodox are through with them, you've been forced to fast, sit still through dreadfully long religious mumbled readings, miss work and give up most of your vacation days, and otherwise have the holiday shoved down your throat for 8 unnecessary days, endless cleaning and cooking, and uncomfortably rejoicing over atrocities committed by Jews in the name of revenge.

Orthodoxy - Because Life Isn't Difficult Enough Already.

jancsibacsi, you realy sound stupid,Jeff and the other atheist's on this board at least sound inteligent and articulate stating their case,but you- it is obvious you are nothing but a stupid and ignorant ex hasid drop out,who is desperately trying to sound sophisticated by parroting all the atheist's on this board,you don't fool anyone,you are just making a fool out of yourself,please go back to your mommy and let her wipe your runny nose

Ever since I was. Kid, the end of the megilah made me feel uneasy, with the jews killing so many people at the end.

This rankled completely against what I was taught about yiddishkeit.

A proper happy ending/ miracle would have been that they made proper peace with their enemies.

A massacre is not a miracle.

Even when god killed the egyptian first born, and soldiers, we feel sorry, and take out drops of our wine at the seder. But hey, not on purim. On purim we drink more wine.

These little things that did not make sense were the first cracks of the eventual torrent of bull that they taught us.

Cruelty towards other humans as well as animals is a common sign among backward peoples and savages. The frumma fit those categories.

Cruelty towards other humans as well as animals is a common sign among backward peoples and savages. The frumma fit those categories.

Isn't it assur to humiliate another Jew in public? Isn't it assur to do anything that might make Judaism or the Jewish people appear foolish to "the nations"? Those injunctions, they ignore. But serve them something without a heimische heckscher, and they go insane. There are at least several psychological disorders operating at once there.

Posted by: Shmaryah,should change his name to Julius Streicher | February 24, 2013 at 01:17 PM

You all keep being told, yet you refuse to absorb it - English is jansci's fifth language. Meanwhile, the frumma have been here for generations, but most speak and write as though they just got off the boat.

His real crime, in your eyes, is having had the good fortune to escape your world. That is what you can't forgive.

There are several psychological disorders operating in most of us. It's just that we don't all go to Weberman for treatment.

Shmaryah,should change his name--You made my day, at least i got on youre nerves:)

"Orthodoxy - Because Life Isn't Difficult Enough Already"

This is great. I suggest bumper stickers, mugs, t-shirts - everything. You could be a rich man!

"Neither.

Posted by: Shmarya | February 24, 2013 at 02:50 AM"

Well said and well done, Shmarya! The electronic equivalent of throwing dirty diapers would be the very last thing we need.

I am going to say it again purim is a fabricated story,as the saying goes if something is too good to be true it probably is not, its a no brainer.

I hate this fucking holiday. We commemorate having escaped genocide by celebrating our having committed it. Seriously, WTF?

When I was but a lad, many decades ago and in a country far, far away, one of my parents' friends opined that the background to nearly all our chagim can be summed up thus:

"They tried to exterminate the Jews, HaShem killed them off and saved us; let's eat!"

The pastries aren't even any damn good.

I have recently been "upgraded", as my oncologist described it, to MS Contin (aka morphine sulphate) to help in controlling my very severe cancer-caused pain. I am still unsure whether he was kidding me when he told me not to eat any poppyseed-filled Hamantaschen.

This is crazy nonsense. Today at our shul's purim carnival - Chabad of Coconut Grove, I got into a discussion with a woman who attends a messianic "synagogue" in Hollywood, FL area. She tried to tell me that her belief that Jesus was the messiah was not incompatible with mainstream Judaism. She then told me that the late Rebbe, was a great man but no messiah. She also believed that the virgin birth was real. She bases her beliefs on verifiable sources. Whatever.

Then, on the way to the car, I saw the cop guarding the shul giving directions to three Hare Krishna women.

Posted by: Darth Zeidah | February 24, 2013 at 02:27 PM

DZ, I'm so sorry. Yes, I think he probably was serious (WSC can weigh in); morphine is a chemical in opium, which is derived from poppies. It would probably enhance the effect, making it more difficult for them to prescribe for you.

Today at our shul's purim carnival - Chabad of Coconut Grove, I got into a discussion with a woman who attends a messianic "synagogue" in Hollywood, FL area.

They get all of their theology from the Southern Baptists. Their mean IQ is in the double digits.

I am going to say it again purim is a fabricated story..

Beware the slippery slope. Pretty soon you'll be claiming that the story about the talking fish in New Square is 'fabricated'.

Posted by: jancsibacsi | February 24, 2013 at 02:16 PM

Personally, I couldn’t care less, if the Purim story is true or not, nevertheless there is historical discussions going back all the way to Josephus.
http://www.josephus.org/Esther.htm#kingAndWoman

Darth, I think he was pulling your leg. If eating poppy seed-containing foods had any opiate effect, you would see long lines at every bakery.

Nevertheless, I'll ask the pain management guys in my facility.

A refuah shelama to you, and may you only hear good news from your doctors henceforth.

If eating poppy seed-containing foods had any opiate effect, you would see long lines at every bakery.

Posted by: WoolSilkCotton, I am a work of art as well as a sports and rock superstar | February 24, 2013 at 05:36 PM

But eating them can make you fail an illicit drug test.

http://www.snopes.com/medical/drugs/poppyseed.asp

Darth Zeidah -

all the best for speedy recovery.

WSC-

congrats on the upgrade to "work of art as well as a sports and rock superstar ". does that come with a pay raise?

Arrgh! The Yiddish in the advertisement is just abysmal.

"Does anyone remember laughter?" -- Robert Plant

I think people here are going overboard unreasonable hatred and taking the story out of its proper historical context:

a) They judge ancient Persia by modern standards.

b) Haman planned genocide and robbery - killing men, women and children.. and taking their posessions

c) Jews were permitted to commit genocide and robbery by decree of Ahashverosh, but chose not to. It is specifically stated in the megilla that they did not kill women, children of their enemies and did not take any of their posessions. This would be a very high moral act for those times.


can even force myself to sit through a Passover seder every once in a while and ignore the fact that God left us in Egypt for four centuries then expected us to kiss his ass (no, I don't really believe that story, either).
Jeff--
Thanks so much for giving us what to say about your ilk this coming Pesach. We will come to you in the Haggadah once again, an from what you said here your sentiments will give us a greater insight into your renegade behavior.

cut an paste by Mendel.

There are wicked children out there. There are kids that are destructive, obnoxious and bad. But not all bad. Underneath the surface, beneath the layers of rudeness and rebellion, there lies an innocent soul. Even the most delinquent children have goodness at their core. It may be buried beneath layers of hurt and pain, but the soul itself remains pure.

It is up to the parents and teachers to engage the wicked children and try to uncover the hidden goodness within. Seek the cause of the rebellion, find out what set the child on the wrong path. He may have been exposed to a bad crowd of friends or a negative role model; he may have been let down by those he looked up to. Or he may have never been taught how to overcome his own negative tendencies. He may have never learnt how to be good.

Reverse the process that led him astray, and bring him back to his inner goodnessBehind his wickedness there is a story, there is a reason why he allowed his innocent soul to become corrupted by his evil side and his pure mind twisted by lower tendencies. Identify the root cause, and then neutralize it. Reverse the process that led him astray, and bring him back to his inner goodness.

This is what the Haggadah means when it says "You should blunt his teeth." De-fang him. Remove the sharpness and bitterness from his bite. Smooth out his rough edges, heal his wounds and allow the goodness in his soul to surface. Take the wicked child and make him righteous.

In fact, this idea is right there in the words of the Haggadah. In the Hebrew language, every letter has a numerical value, called gematria. Therefore every word has a number, the sum of its letters. We can learn hidden messages by looking at the numbers behind Hebrew words.

A wicked person is called a rasha in Hebrew. The word for a pure person is tzaddik. The numerical value of rasha is 570. The numerical value of tzaddik is 204. The difference between them is 366.

Beneath every rasha is a hidden tzaddik. We just need to remove the layers of evil and we will find his goodness. Numerically, we have to remove 366 to get 204 from 570.

So we must blunt his teeth. "His teeth" in Hebrew is shinav. Its numerical value...366. De-fang the rasha, and you will find his inner tzaddik.
Hat tip to you, Tzadik.

David, I have heard of that. I will inquire about whether poppy seeded foods affect narcotic dosing.

APC, I was reading quotes from Oscar Wilde and came across this:

"One should either be a work of art, or wear a work of art" - Oscar Wilde

And so I added it to the moniker!

Shmar--
Don't feel slighted by omission, Tzadik, you will always remain the prototype par excelance.

The Haggadah is yet another way to drag out the most enjoyable holiday with hours of mindless mumbling and droning.

I've been using the 30-minute Haggadah for the past 8 years, and it's great.

Posted by: mendel | February 24, 2013 at 09:40 PM

I know you find this difficult to understand, but you don't have an inherent right to cut and paste your drivel here. If you want to disseminate your cult's propaganda, start your own blog.

No one wants you here.

Posted by: mendel | February 24, 2013 at 09:40 PM

It’s alive! menachem “mendel” schneerson posted on this blog.

And Mendel wrote these things, and sent letters unto all the Jews that were in all the provinces of the internet, both nigh and far, To establish this among them, that they should keep the twenty-fifth day of the month February, and the fifteenth day of the same, yearly, As the days wherein the Jews rested from their enemies, and the month which was turned unto them from sorrow to joy, and from mourning into a good day: that they should make them days of feasting and joy, and of sending money to FailedMessiah, to spread the word, as its written, Ufaratsta Yama Vakedma Vetsafona Vanegba.

Joseph, could you please enlighten us about the cause of death of you "5 star Baal Zedokoh"? Yes it was a car crash involving his luxury droshky, but there was something else involved which it's only fair our readers be au fait with in the interest of emes. Thank you.

If killing 75000 isn't genocide, it's sure a good start.

Posted by: Mike Wierzba | February 24, 2013 at 08:39 AM

Ever since I was. Kid, the end of the megilah made me feel uneasy, with the jews killing so many people at the end.

Posted by: BeenThereDoneThat | February 24, 2013 at 01:27 PM


First off, they were GIVEN PERMISSION by Ahasheurus to kill the 75k, who had been eagerly awaiting the 13 Adar so that they could kill out the Jews as per Haman's order. Actually, legalised self defence more than genocide.

Secondly, Ahasheureus ruled over 127 countries so 75000/12 = 590 . 600 people on average not as many as 75000 sounds.

Secondly, Ahasheureus ruled over 127 countries so 75000/12 = 590 . 600 people on average not as many as 75000 sounds.

Oh, that makes it much better.

A stellar example of rationalization. Your rebbe would be proud.

Killing one person is a terrible crime.
Killing one hundred people is a tragic event.
Killing 75,000 is a statistic.

I can't recall, in modern history, where any civilized nation was able to successfully foil a planned attack, and then they decided to slaughter thousands of people from the country where the planned attackers were from.

Of course, Purim happened in the olden days, when slaughtering thousands of people on a whim was no big deal, because God told you to do so.

Oh, for Jah's sake . . .

Secondly, Ahasheureus ruled over 127 countries so 75000/12 = 590 . 600 people on average not as many as 75000 sounds.

Oh, that makes it much better.

A stellar example of rationalization. Your rebbe would be proud.

Posted by: Jeff | February 25, 2013 at 05:14 AM

Brilliant, Jeff, absolutely brilliant. As I had hoped, you picked on my second point, but your silence on my first point confirms your acceptance of it. Thanks, Jeff.

PS. I am not Hassidic, so do not have a rebbe.

Of course, Purim happened in the olden days, when slaughtering thousands of people on a whim was no big deal, because God told you to do so.

Posted by: WoolSilkCotton, I am a work of art as well as a sports and rock superstar | February 25, 2013 at 06:39 AM

You are a history revisionist. Nowhere in the Megillah does it invoke God's desire that '1000s of people be slaughtered.' It was Mordechai and Esther's proposal which Ahasheurus accepted without any fuss. He was their ruler, a very powerful one too, and had no coercion to agree. And as i have pointed out, it clearly refers to them as 'Oyevheihem' - their enemies - who had been waiting to kill the Jews for almost a year

First off, they were GIVEN PERMISSION by Ahasheurus to kill the 75k, who had been eagerly awaiting the 13 Adar so that they could kill out the Jews as per Haman's order. Actually, legalized self defence more than genocide.
Secondly, Ahasheureus ruled over 127 countries so 75000/12 = 590 . 600 people on average not as many as 75000 sounds.
Posted by: MosheCohen | February 25, 2013 at 04:37 AM

The Self-defense defense is only lawful if the danger still existed, according to the megillah King Ahasuerus, already reversed his original decree. Therefore, Jeff’s point is spot on.

Using your logic and math, lets extrapolate that in 1940 the world population estimate is around 2.4 billion, so 6 million Jews is not be considered genocide. I hope using this logic will open your eyes and you will see how stupid you sound.

PS. I am not Hassidic, so do not have a rebbe.
Posted by: MosheCohen | February 25, 2013 at 07:49 AM

In today’s Haredi world Rebbe or Rabbi is interchangeable, regardless; your spelling and writing skills did give it away.

The Self-defense defense is only lawful if the danger still existed, according to the megillah King Ahasuerus, already reversed his original decree. Therefore, Jeff’s point is spot on.

Posted by: Joe Field | February 25, 2013 at 08:22 AM

No, Ahashverosh did not revise the original decree since it was against the law to change or amend any of king's decrees. So the original decree stood. What he did is he issued one more decree in which he allowed the Jews to defend themselves when followers of the first decree will come to slauther them. The Jews defended themselves against genocidal troops coming to exterminate them. The Jews won. Joe Field cries 3 thousand years later for the hate filled nazis of the time What does it tell about you Joe? Are you humanitarian or simply a dreaming Jew killer?

There was no genocide on Purim. There was no unwarranted slaughter on Purim. We do not celebrate slaugther on Purim. We celebrate survival and yes, part of that survival through means of self defense. Just like US celebrates V-day.

God always gives permission to slaughter and massacre all the men, women, and children of any group that gets in the way.

God is always angry, always ready for revenge, always eager for blood.

But don't worry, God loves us! It's just everyone else He hates.

No one wants you here
Jeff--
The reason for your opposition to me and my cut and pastes which you find so overpowering that you "don't want me here" is self-evident:
You and others of your ilk are such miserable malcontents that all you can do to make yourselves feel better is to dig a hole for the ones for whom, in large measure, their yiddishkeit is working. In doing so, you are able to 'triumphantly" lift yourselves out of the self-made dung heap you have chosen to inhabit as a retreat from Jewish observant living.
We justifiably won't join you, and for now, you won't join us, so get used to it and get over it--I, and others like me, are here.

As I had hoped, you picked on my second point, but your silence on my first point confirms your acceptance of it.

Because it was so absurd, I didn't think I had to.

Since when do we recognize permission from a gentile authority to commit atrocities? Was God working through Ahashverosh? If so, perhaps he works through secular authorities today. You guys had better start educating your kids according to government standards.

Of course, the fact that we're supposed to be "rachamim b'nei rachamim" doesn't seem to enter into your collective consciousness at all.

Every liberal rabbi I know dislikes the theological underpinnings of Purim. They deal with it in different ways - one will downplay it, another will appeal to a Hasidic master (I think it was the Slonimer Rebbe who said we should strive to conquer the "Amalek within ourselves") - but they all essentially disapprove and just make the best of it they can.

If liberal Judaism is dying - which it isn't, but you guys keep telling yourselves that while ignoring the decay in your own world - I'd really rather just go down with the ship (insofar as I involve myself with Judaism at all, which isn't much). Frumkeit has nothing to offer me in this life, and I don't subscribe to your lurid fantasies concerning the next - so you have nothing to offer me or to hold over me. There's no carrot, and there is no stick.

Posted by: Ben | February 25, 2013 at 08:52 AM

Part # 1

I always love the day after Purim when someone crawls out of their Drunken Stupor and really believes the nonsense which he consumed as a child from the Rebbe’s.

As I previously wrote I don’t know if the story is actually true or just folklore and I don’t care. Nevertheless, when historians want to validate historical facts, they never will take at face value what the direct participants of the event claims. Participants will always claim the highroad and justify their shortcoming. Historians constantly try to confirm with independent sources. Therefore, using the megillah as a source to illuminate a specific question will not be helpful to understand what really happened.

Historically the story of Purim is ascribed to Xerxes; the king was the ruler of the great Persian Empire from 486 to 465 BCE. There are two version of the story as we know it. The original version is the text of the megillah, the Septuagint, which was composed in 270 BCE, as told in Antiquities 12.2.7 57; 12.2.12 101-109, and contains a variation of the book of Esther, called today the Apocryphal Esther.

Posted by: Ben | February 25, 2013 at 08:52 AM

Part # 2

The next historical work was attributed to Josephus and was compiled sometime in 80-90 CE (there are some disagreement if indeed this was Josephus or an imposter from 150 CE) here is the kicker only in the megillah we see the version that because the kings orders cannot be revoked, therefore, the new law was written that the Jews should kill their antagonizer.

Summary of 11.6.12-13 (up to section 288) as written by Dr. G. J. Goldberg in Josephus' Version with Commentary
“The king sent a letter to the one hundred twenty seven provinces of his empire, with this central portion: " Haman made a conspiracy against me and my life, who gave him his authority, by endeavoring to take away Mordecai, my benefactor, and my savior, and by basely and treacherously requiring to have Esther, the partner of my life, and of my dominion, brought to destruction; for he contrived by this means to deprive me of my faithful friends, and transfer the government to others: but since I perceived that these Jews, that were by this pernicious fellow devoted to destruction, were not wicked men, but conducted their lives after the best manner, and were men dedicated to the worship of that God who hath preserved the kingdom to me and to my ancestors, I DO NOT ONLY FREE THEM FROM THE PUNISHMENT which the former epistle, which was sent by Haman, ordered to be inflicted on them, to which if you refuse obedience, you shall do well; but I will that they have all honor paid to them.”

Moreover, if your argument is true that because the original Kings order was irrevocable therefore there was a need to defend themselves and kill their antagonist, them why did Esther, requested one more day for to be able to kill more people in the city of Shushan.

Finally, I am not decrying what, if it did happen 2500 years ago. I am just putting the story of Purim in prospective as a historical lesson. Hopping that someone with a brain will digest the facts and learn something new, which he never heard in the Yeshiva.

Of course, the fact that we're supposed to be "rachamim b'nei rachamim" doesn't seem to enter into your collective consciousness at all.

Posted by: Jeff | February 25, 2013 at 10:35 AM

Sorry to be pedantic, but I'm sure you mean 'rachmanim b'nei rachmanim'.

Joe Field, I understand your point, that Megillah may not be historically correct and that other versions exist.

My point is that I don't know a single Jew who celebrates genocide and slaughter on Purim. Everyone I know celebrates survival and continuation and even brotherhood of the Jews.

Posted by: Ben | February 25, 2013 at 02:49 PM

So than we are in agreement that my original comment to MosheCohen @ 04:37 AM, that his comment was not based in logic or realty, but a version which I think was added sometime in the Dark-Ages, to protect Jews from hostile Kings.

Jeff, don't be such a hater of Jewish baked goods. You need to embrace the pastry love (especially 3 cornered ones).

Social pressure has turned our beautiful holidays into spectacles of overkill and excess. Why do shlach manos have to include flowers, vases and "poems" all wrapped in plastic.To some,home baked goods are "nice" Others throw out the home baked goods because of yoshon/cholov Yisroel/kashrus issues. And don't forget the pineapple for the Yachnefluster mishpoche!

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