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February 04, 2013

Hasidim And Education

Altered Nic Anderson hasid closeupWhat happens if an unknown person takes a Nick Anderson editorial cartoon and slightly tweeks it? This:

From the Taliban to hasidim:

Altered Nick Anderson cartoon Hasidim Education
[Hat Tip: HeathenHassid.]

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Wonderful political graphic. Deserves wide publication.

Mullahs, Rabbis, Pastors. They're all terrified of education, women and educated women most of all.

And by "educated" I don't mean severely limited vocational training.

You were born in the wrong decade. Der Streumer would have hired you in a heartbeat.

Chasidim don't hold weapons. Only zionists and terrorists.

While the cartoon is over the top --- as most cartoons are --- its premise is true.

The Hasidim are deathly afraid of secular education, as it may make people esp women THINK.. like...

How come the CEOs of Pepsi, Yahoo, Xerox are women? What chance does a Haredi woman-- or for that matter Haredi man --- have of getting such a multi million dollar prestigious and powerful position? Zero.

And that my friends is a weapon of mass disillusionment.

I love it when Shmarya posts stuff like this. It's so over the top and offensive, that is dilutes even his more serious and meaningful contributions to issues concerning Orhotodxy. Drivel such as this further marginalized Shmarya, alienating him from the mainstream. Ultimately he will render himself a non-entity on the Jewish scene. And the beauty of it is he can't help himself. He is so all consumed with hatred and disdain for anything smacking of Orthodoxy, he loses all perspective when presented with something like this. Like a moth drawn to the fire, Shmarya can't help but post stuff like, even to his detriment. It's a true pleasure for me to watch him slowly self destruct like this.

How strong is your pleasure in destroying a school district?

To those criticizing: if the book had been labeled "secular education," would it have been closer to the truth?

Or is your problem that the cartoon shows a (gasp!) girl?

I love it when Shmarya posts stuff like this. It's so over the top and offensive, that is dilutes even his more serious and meaningful contributions to issues concerning Orhotodxy. Drivel such as this further marginalized Shmarya, alienating him from the mainstream. Ultimately he will render himself a non-entity on the Jewish scene. And the beauty of it is he can't help himself. He is so all consumed with hatred and disdain for anything smacking of Orthodoxy, he loses all perspective when presented with something like this. Like a moth drawn to the fire, Shmarya can't help but post stuff like, even to his detriment. It's a true pleasure for me to watch him slowly self destruct like this.

Posted by: DBSesq | February 04, 2013 at 11:13 AM

Please.

There was just a major exposé of haredi education in NYC that showed that most haredi boys schools have almost no secular education and some have none at all. This is against the law and it should bar these schools from receiving any federal, state or city money for ancillary programs like busing, school lunch, etc.

But you are the president of one of the most corrupt school districts in NY State, the completely haredi-controlled East Ramapo district.

You're a noted jerk, a pompous POS who was recently caught on video instructing a haredi school board member to leave the public meeting room to destroy the quorum and end the public meeting – and the criticism you were facing.

That you are unethical is absolutely clear.

We now wait to find out whether your behavior will eventually lead to you being sanctioned by the bar and/or indicted.

DBSesq--Hogy vagy,this is america you can post anything you feel pertains to daily life, there is nothing wrong with this piece, i think its all in youre mind:)

You will be hard pressed to find a better example of psychological guilt projection than the above comment of DBSesq.

It is an absolute classic.

Just replace the rifles with rocks, chairs and diapers and it will be dead-on accurate.

I would like to remind everyone about the 2 Board members from East Ramapo that recently resigned. The Board that is headed by Daniel Schwartz alias DBSesq. The reason given for the resignations were "continuous intimidation" and being "wrongfully accused of religious discrimination" It is funny that this man talks about "hatred and disdain".
There is nothing over the top about that cartoon. The Hasisdic boys are given an education comparable to a third grade secular education. How many Drs. and lawyers have come out of New Square?

How many Drs. and lawyers have come out of New Square?
There you go again. Plenty of doctors and lawyers can come from these schools. Everything worth knowing is in Torah and Talmud. You don't need the science of those heathens in the secular world to learn important stuff.

One can learn enough law to be a learned rabbi on a Bet Din. One learns enough science from our 6000 years of existence to become a physician, just ask Maimonides. Please don't contaminate our scholars with outside learning. Next thing you know, they'd be bringing in stuff like prescription drugs, not to mention dinosaurs.

And with luck, the public schools in Monsey, Kiryat Joel, etc. will become just as good as our yeshivas.

/sarcasm off

It is infuriating that NY politicians stand idly by and enable the destruction of public schools. Bankrupting public schools, is very short-sighted. It certainly appears that these board members are acting only in the interest of one part of the community, and in the long run, this type of behavior will bankrupt the school district, both academically and financially. Those touting privatization of public schools are making a big mistake. Blurring separation of church and state will certainly backfire.

Posted by: Sarek | February 04, 2013 at 12:38 PM
“just ask Maimonides.”

The funny thing is that for the first 150 years after Maimonides death, is was not followed at all, he was considered rouge. Exactly how he was rehabilitated I don’t remember. But without a doubt he was frowned upon.

It's a true pleasure for me to watch him slowly self destruct like this.

Posted by: DBSesq | February 04, 2013 at 11:13 AM

The tragic irony is that your world is self-destructing, yet you refuse to see it.

Lets all learn more toireh,maybee we will discover a new way of making cholent or maybee a new way to dupe the the masses or maybee a new particle that will make the toreh learners leviate and give a gigantic fart from their new concocted cholent.

Meant to write levitate:)

DBSesq, you forgot to mention the basement.

several years of frum predictions of Shmarya's imminent demise, and they always mention the basement.

anyway, can I offer you a donut?

Shmarya: Are you sure that the Haredi curriculum is against the law? Did you check with the New York State Department of Education as I did last summer? Did the person you talked to (if you called) tell you something different than what I was told? I was told that religious schools affiliated with a church, synagogue or mosque are free to set their own curriculum with no interference from the State of New York.

If Haredi yeshivas are breaking the law with their deficient course of studies, whose job is it to bring them into compliance with the law?

It depends on their "affiliation." That is not the appropriate word. The government does indeed fund religion under certain circumstances. They will fund organizations created by the congregation of a religious entity. You are talking too broadly. Whereas the government wouldn't pay Religious House of Worship A directly for educating in their religion, there may be grants or funding available for a school that was started by congregants and is a separate (yet slippery) entity from that Religious House of Worship A.

Posted by: Rocky | February 04, 2013 at 05:06 PM

As long as they teach the core curriculum, otherwise they are subject to the States law which is mandatory.

Joe Field: May I suggest that you call the NY State Department of Education in Albany and talk to someone in the office that keeps track of religious schools. What I have been told and what the common perception appears to be are not the same. If you read Chaim Levin's blogs last year, you know that Ohelei Torah in Brooklyn (Lubavitch yeshivas) is out of compliance with your version of state law. The recent expose of Haredi education (referred to in SR's comments) is consistent with Chaim's blogs. But no one has been fined, no one is going to jail and, as far as I know, the yeshivas in the OT system have not been shut down. According to the OT web site, the system currently has an enrollment of about 1,600 students.

Posted by: Rocky | February 04, 2013 at 08:19 PM

In no way am I disparaging your comment, that a big percentage of orthodox yeshivas are not in compliance with the law, but that doesn’t negate the law on the books that regarding the core curriculum. In my view the only reason why the government is not enforcing the law because, they have the power of bloc-voting.

"Chasidim don't hold weapons. Only zionists and terrorists."

Zionists and terrorists bathe more often.

With all my criticism to Christian fundamentalism, you cannot find Christian pastor without REAL academic degree. Many of them actually hold PhD or equivalent. And FOR SURE no Christian denomination will sent a person without high school diploma to do “outreach” within college campus, like Frumma (Chabad, Aish) does. I always was curious how Jewish students and faculty from colleges are not humiliated to be “outreached” by somebody that CHOOSED not to complete school curriculum.

Its not over the top, Haredim agree with me, see:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4340819,00.html

DBSesq--Hogy vagy,this is america you can post anything you feel pertains to daily life, there is nothing wrong with this piece, i think its all in youre mind:)

Posted by: jancsibacsi | February 04, 2013 at 11:38 AM

You are a very shallow person and extremely narrow minded. THAT is why you don't get what's wrong with a twirp like Shmarya making a fool of himself and calling it journalism...

Russian
That should tell you something about Judaism... I hope you have the capacity to process that.

Better than you, you do believe simply.

Posted by: Rocky | February 04, 2013 at 08:19 PM

see below

http://www.scribd.com/doc/70894000/Requisitos-escuelas-privadas
N.Y. Educ. Law
See page 200
Curriculum
 Instruction given to a minor elsewhere than a public school must be substantially
equivalent to the instruction given at the local public school. N.Y. Educ. Law §3204.2
 The course of study for the first eight years of public school must include arithmetic,
reading, spelling, writing, the English language, geography, United States history,
civics, hygiene, physical training, the history of New York state and science. Beyond
the first eight years, instruction must include the English language and its use, civics,
hygiene, physical training, American history including the Declaration of
Independence and the Constitution of the United States, and may include a course in
communism and its methods and its destructive effects.

Also see N.Y. Educ. Law §3204.
New York Education - Part 1 - (3201 - 3234) Compulsory Education
http://law.onecle.com/new-york/education/title4.a65.p1.html

For posters who try to distinguish between “education per se” and “secular education”
An education means providing of evidence-based knowledge and skills. Evidence-based knowledge and skills are, per definition, universal, and cannot be belonging to specific religion or ethnicity (because there is no Jewish thermodynamics, Muslim mechanics, Christian engineering, or Mongolian astronomy). So, EDUCATION always SECULAR. When somebody add adjective ”Jewish”, “Christian” or “Communist” before “education”, he should better use another noun, e.g. “brainwashing

Better than you:
Unfortunately, I do not have brain capacity you speaking about, and I have learned all “benefits” of “education” of Chabad-Lubavich on my own, and, what is much worst, on my children’s skin. But I still do not lost a hop that there is somewhere “real and good Judaism”. And I am pretty sure that there is a lot of similar shit in other faiths. I am pretty sure that in comparison to monetary frauds of Vatican our affairs, like Rubashkin scandal, are like pocket money issues of an elementary school students. But Vatican (the only faith-based institution that has this privilege) is a subject of international Law and possessor of Sovereign Immunity-you cannot drug them to the Fed Court for Iowa...

And about all kind of censorship in education.
It is clear that if you need censorship and knowledge limitation to keep any idea alive, this idea cannot be true.
Let imagine that the Department of Astrophysics of the University of Yale would punish and expel its students for reading about Ptolemy’s Heliocentric Model-in order to educate true believers in Copernicus. Because of educated professional naturally accept more rational and evidence-based system, you do not need to censor, to control, and to punish. If Hassidic Judaism needs strict control over educational material, books, and media to keep itself alive, it means that this idea is false.

Okay. The cartoon tickled my funny bone!

.All your ramblings only prove how shallow you are. I understand that Chabad did you bad and you're angry. However, Judaism does not begin nor end with Chabad.

Posted by: Better than you |

Russian:
All your ramblings only prove how shallow you are. I understand that Chabad did you bad and you're angry. However, Judaism does not begin nor end with Chabad.

DBSesq, by not educating haredi children in secular subjects, you are committing child abuse.

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