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February 05, 2013

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rebeljew

Also directed at the Haredi troll:

I also do not understand why you want to fight such people that oppose your views. According to you, there is no need to ever to fight. Your intimated physical threats are of little concern, as you apparently have a philosophical problem with fighting, choosing instead to rely on Torah learning. Or are you just an anti-semite / self hating Jew, choosing to go to war against Jews instead of enemies of Jews?

If it fails to protect you in the end, consider this. Maybe it is not the learnING, maybe it is the learnER.

rebeljew

For the big chacham who left me a personal message, I think you should go back to your main profession of extorting goats from unfortunates who cross the bridge you live under. I am arguing FOR creating standards to create yeshivas of exceptional talmidei chachamim. Obviously, that is a small percentage of the current yeshiva population of mediocre students. Mediocre students become mediocre leaders and Torah teachers. I am not sure why YOU would ADVOCATE that current standard.

The Torah, for which you are so zealous, advocates such standards. It also advocates public service, paying taxes, working (tov Torah im Derech Eretz), and army service (ki tetzei l'milchama al oivecha, and by halachic standards, Israel's wars are milchemet mitzvah). Not every student is qualified to be a Torah batlan. I suspect you are in the unqualified group.

I was not opposing the idea that Torah protects klal Yisroel. I was opposing the idea that every shmegegeh's repetition of words on a page constitutes the type of learning that protects klal Yisroel. It seems we agree somewhat but you are just too ignorant or more likely arrogant to process the point.

anchell

. . . is serving in the army not philosophically opposite to learning and living the laws of the Torah. And is torah learning not essential to Zionism and the Jewish Identity everywhere. Should it not bee seen as a progressive step towards Zionist Stewardship? Is the army currently in need of manpower. IAfter it t too is a business. And must it be considered a major force in the world. Does that not take away from the Jewish Identity significantly? As we have seen in America, the cost of such an army is prohibitive. Israel is not alone. Its' need to show such might is not necessary at this moment in time.

Full time Torah studies is problematic if the course load is not variable in it's content. For one common mistakes of interpretation will continue to be passed on as fact. I recall in an early blog here someone once told me that "G-D" tell us it is forbidden to mix seeds. This in reference to my being Jamaican born and having previously married an Israelli woman. The common interpretation here was that my having Moorish/African ancestry is by fact a different seed than my former European wife's ancestry. Of course this was an intrepretative fallacy. I believe that seeds are in fact the by product of the male reproductive system and not a race or cultural designation. Therefore the mixing of seeds simply refers to not having more than one man impregnate a woman at the same time. Simple? I believe so.
And so as to the continued study of the Torah. If it is as it led me to believe. Then interpretatively, it is also a science book. But never looked at as such. One must have reference points from which to draw upon so as to extrapolate functiionally appropriate intrepretation and knowledge. Think Ya'ad Israel as a peaceful world. A destination that begins with a very small ideal.

adam

This man Naftali Bennett is good for the lazy man and lazy woman out there. He wants Sunday off too for Israeli's. Friday and Saturday isn't enough. Israel will become like Greece which doesn't have an external enemy. The term Orthodox I think as well is us imitating Greece as in Greece most everyone belongs to the Orthodox Church. The term Orthodox does not exist in the bible. The term synogague as well is a greek term meaning place of meeting. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/260574#.UQXLn_KZOlI

dh

Wow. You are both very brave. Your families are proud.

I hope you keep sharing your stories.

jancsibacsi

I have a friend in israel with whom i speak almost daily he is from satu mare originally, you all know satu mare is satmer in romanian,this friend of mine fought in the 1967 war was shot in the back of his head near his ear was in comma but he recovered i visitid him 2 years ago he showed me the bullet they took out of his head, when the yom kippur war broke out they didnt want to let him fight but he went again fought that war and again in the 1982 lebannon war he is retired today.

jancsibacsi

dh-Thanks for the compliment,this better then no one is here for one reason to belittle me nothing else but it backfires on him,sadly he doesnt see that since he is so consumed by getting back at me,he does not contribute to the discussion here,he is here only to berate me at every opportunity he gets.

flora freida

nobody said that they forbiden to study torah. just do it like everyone in Israel that want to go to university,first do your military service then go to study torah and find a job to support you and your family. if you don't agree do like rabbi Ovadia Yosef said:"flee Israel" or should I say: "free Israel" (?)

dh

English is Jancsi's 5th language! That's one smart dude.

Jeff

Jancsi
The little brains you do have is being wasted on venting at Haredim. Is that all you're good for?

Posted by: Better than you | February 05, 2013 at 11:27 AM

And what are you good for? All we see you do here - when you aren't defending the indefensible - is pick on a man whose first language isn't English. Meanwhile, you people have been here for generations, and most of you speak as though it isn't your first language, either.

Runner1983

"Bennett cited three principles he claimed his party would be guided by. “Torah learning is important to the entire Jewish people, not just the haredim; the haredim are our brothers, not our enemies; and those who are truly learning Torah will continue to learn, while the others will serve the country and join Israeli society,” he said.""

Let the Haredim learn Torah all they want, but their first priority is getting a solid education in the secluar subjects of math, science, etc., as well develop the interpersonal skills to deal with women and to be effective in the workplace. This is a prime Jewish value. It certainly is not a Jewish value to accept welfare as a lifestyle choice. They should work full time, and study Torah part time. By the way, their culture is so far from
modern western culture, I do not consider them brothers.

rebeljew

Strangely, I agree with this. The state should designate a certain number of positions for "batlanim". This would satisfy the historically accepted requirement and allow for protection from Torah learning. Qualified candidates would be selected by a method agreed by Haredi roshei yeshiva and the rabbinate of the state (if such a body has to exist). The halachic minimum is 10 per city, and the minimum is 120 to be considered a city. However, more batlanim than that are not required, even in larger cities. The only need to expand is if the yeshivas prove that the students are extraordinary in some way, but these would be exceptional cases. We might be able to build glowing yeshivas with a few hundred students who are capable of learning Torah and spreading it to klal yisroel.

If the principle is that Torah protects the public, then these batlanim should be sufficient. The rest go to the army to protect the country b'derech hateva and they rely on the batlanim zchus to protect them and give them success. Simple solution, historically tried and true, and unassailable from halacha.

David

This whole concept of 24/7 Torah "learning" is an invented idea. In all of Jewish history learning was always done after one's regula obligations of working, secular education, family etc. have been fulfilled and all the great sages had regular jobs.

jancsibacsi

Better than you -den gei in ver geharget di oisvorf.

AztecQueen2000

Draft them all. They can study Torah when they're too old to fight physically.

Better than you

Jansci
דו האסט א מיאוס׳ער מויל... וק״ו דיין תחת
So no, ich gei nisht kishen dein tuches, you lowlife.

Yochanan Lavie

Let them register as conscientious objectors and also not get a dime from the state.

seymour

i wonder would a secular or atheist be allowed to be exempt from the the army simply by studying Torah.


Maybe they should try it and watch the heridiem cry who will protect us

jancsibacsi

Better than you-As they they say in yiddish kenst kishen mine toches:)

Better than you

Jancsi
The little brains you do have is being wasted on venting at Haredim. Is that all you're good for?

smile!

Ye ye ye, you angry peasant.

Posted by: Better than you | February 05, 2013 at 10:03 AM

Is being angry or a peasant bad? Or is this an insult meant to suggest that he has no education i.e. peasants do not get an education for cultural or financial reasons? In which case would not all haredim be peasants in which case you obviously didnt mean it as an insult so could it possibly be a compliment?

jancsibacsi

Better than you -And you are a mindless moron ye ye ye.

Better than you

Yes they should be allowed but not on others account let them pay the tuition by themself,how stupid can someone be to ask others to pay for their lifestyle its insane.

Posted by: jancsibacsi | February 05, 2013 at 08:34 AM

Ye ye ye, you angry peasant.

Maskil

You write that hw wants to allow "Haredim who want to study" to do so. He wants to exempt *anyone*, not just who wants to study, but who wants to study *Torah*. The debate should revolve around the figures and the budget, not sectors and discrimination.

A. Nuran

Everyone fights.
Everyone works.
Everyone eats.

Let them spend their free time regurgitating incantations in dead languages.

Rocky

Israel cannot afford the luxury of a volunteer army. It is surrounded by too many enemies. If the Haredi are exempted, why should other groups participate?

jancsibacsi

Yes they should be allowed but not on others account let them pay the tuition by themself,how stupid can someone be to ask others to pay for their lifestyle its insane.

S M L

Plenty of time exists for Torah study after work, on Shabbat, while riding the bus to work. No reason exists for a society to subsidize 24/7 Torah study by men who contribute nothing to the maintenance of that society but their study. It's not enough.

PCF

The article you linked to does not say that ANY yeshiva student who wants to continue to study full time at the state’s expense should be exempted from the military draft to be able to continue to do so.

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