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February 05, 2013

Haredim Who Want To Study Instead Of Serve In The Military Should Be Able To Do So, Zionist Orthodox Pol Says

Haredi man walking past soldiers at KotelThe head of the right wing Zionist Orthodox HaBayit HaYehudi political party Naftali Bennett has again said that any yeshiva student who wants to continue to study full time at the state’s expense should be exempted from the military draft to be able to continue to do so.

Haredi man walking past soldiers at Kotel

Haredim Who Want To Study Instead Of Serve In The Military Should Be Able To Do So, Zionist Orthodox Pol Says
Shmarya Rosenberg • FailedMessiah.com

The head of the right wing Zionist Orthodox HaBayit HaYehudi political party Naftali Bennett has again said that any yeshiva student who wants to continue to study full time at the state’s expense should be exempted from the military draft to be able to continue to do so, Arutz Sheva reports.

Bennett made similar statements in the run-up to the January 22 national elections, even though the a large majority of HaBayit Hayehudi voters oppose haredi draft evasion.

A report by Hiddush, a nonprofit that advocates for religious freedom, found that the average married 28-year-old haredi yeshiva student receives more than $14,000 per year in state subsides, stipends and welfare payments.

In his first policy speech since the national elections, Bennett also said that his party was committed to guaranteeing that there was plenty of government funding for Torah institutions.

“If Torah study is important to the Jewish people, it must be a part of the regular state budget,” Bennet said at an event held for the heads of yeshiva. “Torah study cannot be based on coalition agreements. It must be part of the state budget. The state must decide if Torah study is important or not. If it is important, a regular allocation in the state budget must be made.…I want to say this clearly: We will work on behalf of the entire Torah world, not just that of Zionist Orthodox institutions. We will not allow the Torah world to be damaged.”

Until now, budgets for yeshivas were byproducts of coalition agreements, and of negotiations based on the Special Arrangements Law and attached to the yearly state budget. Bennett wants to make the yeshivas’ funding a line item in the state budget instead.

Bennett has been attacked by haredim over rumors that he had made a deal with Yair Lapid's Yesh Atid Party to make the new law drafting haredi yeshiva students near-universal, with only 400 of the top haredi scholars remaining exempt from military service. Thousands of other haredi would have to serve in the military or in a civil national service option. Haredi leaders strongly oppose this, insisting all haredi yeshiva students must remain exempt from military or national civil service.

Yesh Atid and HaBayit HaYehudi are both expected to join with Benjamin Netanyahu’s Likud-Beiteinu Party to form the next government.

Bennett cited three principles he claimed his party would be guided by.

“Torah learning is important to the entire Jewish people, not just the haredim; the haredim are our brothers, not our enemies; and those who are truly learning Torah will continue to learn, while the others will serve the country and join Israeli society,” he said.

Lapid is unwilling to allow thousands of haredim to evade the military draft.

Polls show that Israeli Jews – including HaBayit Hayehudi voters –overwhelmingly want haredim to share the country’s defense burden. Israeli Jews – also including HaBayit Hayehudi voters – also overwhelming want the new government to be formed without any haredi political parties.

[Hat Tip: Burich.]

Comments

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The article you linked to does not say that ANY yeshiva student who wants to continue to study full time at the state’s expense should be exempted from the military draft to be able to continue to do so.

Plenty of time exists for Torah study after work, on Shabbat, while riding the bus to work. No reason exists for a society to subsidize 24/7 Torah study by men who contribute nothing to the maintenance of that society but their study. It's not enough.

Yes they should be allowed but not on others account let them pay the tuition by themself,how stupid can someone be to ask others to pay for their lifestyle its insane.

Israel cannot afford the luxury of a volunteer army. It is surrounded by too many enemies. If the Haredi are exempted, why should other groups participate?

Everyone fights.
Everyone works.
Everyone eats.

Let them spend their free time regurgitating incantations in dead languages.

You write that hw wants to allow "Haredim who want to study" to do so. He wants to exempt *anyone*, not just who wants to study, but who wants to study *Torah*. The debate should revolve around the figures and the budget, not sectors and discrimination.

Yes they should be allowed but not on others account let them pay the tuition by themself,how stupid can someone be to ask others to pay for their lifestyle its insane.

Posted by: jancsibacsi | February 05, 2013 at 08:34 AM

Ye ye ye, you angry peasant.

Better than you -And you are a mindless moron ye ye ye.

Ye ye ye, you angry peasant.

Posted by: Better than you | February 05, 2013 at 10:03 AM

Is being angry or a peasant bad? Or is this an insult meant to suggest that he has no education i.e. peasants do not get an education for cultural or financial reasons? In which case would not all haredim be peasants in which case you obviously didnt mean it as an insult so could it possibly be a compliment?

Jancsi
The little brains you do have is being wasted on venting at Haredim. Is that all you're good for?

Better than you-As they they say in yiddish kenst kishen mine toches:)

i wonder would a secular or atheist be allowed to be exempt from the the army simply by studying Torah.


Maybe they should try it and watch the heridiem cry who will protect us

Let them register as conscientious objectors and also not get a dime from the state.

Jansci
דו האסט א מיאוס׳ער מויל... וק״ו דיין תחת
So no, ich gei nisht kishen dein tuches, you lowlife.

Draft them all. They can study Torah when they're too old to fight physically.

Better than you -den gei in ver geharget di oisvorf.

This whole concept of 24/7 Torah "learning" is an invented idea. In all of Jewish history learning was always done after one's regula obligations of working, secular education, family etc. have been fulfilled and all the great sages had regular jobs.

Strangely, I agree with this. The state should designate a certain number of positions for "batlanim". This would satisfy the historically accepted requirement and allow for protection from Torah learning. Qualified candidates would be selected by a method agreed by Haredi roshei yeshiva and the rabbinate of the state (if such a body has to exist). The halachic minimum is 10 per city, and the minimum is 120 to be considered a city. However, more batlanim than that are not required, even in larger cities. The only need to expand is if the yeshivas prove that the students are extraordinary in some way, but these would be exceptional cases. We might be able to build glowing yeshivas with a few hundred students who are capable of learning Torah and spreading it to klal yisroel.

If the principle is that Torah protects the public, then these batlanim should be sufficient. The rest go to the army to protect the country b'derech hateva and they rely on the batlanim zchus to protect them and give them success. Simple solution, historically tried and true, and unassailable from halacha.

"Bennett cited three principles he claimed his party would be guided by. “Torah learning is important to the entire Jewish people, not just the haredim; the haredim are our brothers, not our enemies; and those who are truly learning Torah will continue to learn, while the others will serve the country and join Israeli society,” he said.""

Let the Haredim learn Torah all they want, but their first priority is getting a solid education in the secluar subjects of math, science, etc., as well develop the interpersonal skills to deal with women and to be effective in the workplace. This is a prime Jewish value. It certainly is not a Jewish value to accept welfare as a lifestyle choice. They should work full time, and study Torah part time. By the way, their culture is so far from
modern western culture, I do not consider them brothers.

Jancsi
The little brains you do have is being wasted on venting at Haredim. Is that all you're good for?

Posted by: Better than you | February 05, 2013 at 11:27 AM

And what are you good for? All we see you do here - when you aren't defending the indefensible - is pick on a man whose first language isn't English. Meanwhile, you people have been here for generations, and most of you speak as though it isn't your first language, either.

English is Jancsi's 5th language! That's one smart dude.

nobody said that they forbiden to study torah. just do it like everyone in Israel that want to go to university,first do your military service then go to study torah and find a job to support you and your family. if you don't agree do like rabbi Ovadia Yosef said:"flee Israel" or should I say: "free Israel" (?)

dh-Thanks for the compliment,this better then no one is here for one reason to belittle me nothing else but it backfires on him,sadly he doesnt see that since he is so consumed by getting back at me,he does not contribute to the discussion here,he is here only to berate me at every opportunity he gets.

I have a friend in israel with whom i speak almost daily he is from satu mare originally, you all know satu mare is satmer in romanian,this friend of mine fought in the 1967 war was shot in the back of his head near his ear was in comma but he recovered i visitid him 2 years ago he showed me the bullet they took out of his head, when the yom kippur war broke out they didnt want to let him fight but he went again fought that war and again in the 1982 lebannon war he is retired today.

Wow. You are both very brave. Your families are proud.

I hope you keep sharing your stories.

This man Naftali Bennett is good for the lazy man and lazy woman out there. He wants Sunday off too for Israeli's. Friday and Saturday isn't enough. Israel will become like Greece which doesn't have an external enemy. The term Orthodox I think as well is us imitating Greece as in Greece most everyone belongs to the Orthodox Church. The term Orthodox does not exist in the bible. The term synogague as well is a greek term meaning place of meeting. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/260574#.UQXLn_KZOlI

. . . is serving in the army not philosophically opposite to learning and living the laws of the Torah. And is torah learning not essential to Zionism and the Jewish Identity everywhere. Should it not bee seen as a progressive step towards Zionist Stewardship? Is the army currently in need of manpower. IAfter it t too is a business. And must it be considered a major force in the world. Does that not take away from the Jewish Identity significantly? As we have seen in America, the cost of such an army is prohibitive. Israel is not alone. Its' need to show such might is not necessary at this moment in time.

Full time Torah studies is problematic if the course load is not variable in it's content. For one common mistakes of interpretation will continue to be passed on as fact. I recall in an early blog here someone once told me that "G-D" tell us it is forbidden to mix seeds. This in reference to my being Jamaican born and having previously married an Israelli woman. The common interpretation here was that my having Moorish/African ancestry is by fact a different seed than my former European wife's ancestry. Of course this was an intrepretative fallacy. I believe that seeds are in fact the by product of the male reproductive system and not a race or cultural designation. Therefore the mixing of seeds simply refers to not having more than one man impregnate a woman at the same time. Simple? I believe so.
And so as to the continued study of the Torah. If it is as it led me to believe. Then interpretatively, it is also a science book. But never looked at as such. One must have reference points from which to draw upon so as to extrapolate functiionally appropriate intrepretation and knowledge. Think Ya'ad Israel as a peaceful world. A destination that begins with a very small ideal.

For the big chacham who left me a personal message, I think you should go back to your main profession of extorting goats from unfortunates who cross the bridge you live under. I am arguing FOR creating standards to create yeshivas of exceptional talmidei chachamim. Obviously, that is a small percentage of the current yeshiva population of mediocre students. Mediocre students become mediocre leaders and Torah teachers. I am not sure why YOU would ADVOCATE that current standard.

The Torah, for which you are so zealous, advocates such standards. It also advocates public service, paying taxes, working (tov Torah im Derech Eretz), and army service (ki tetzei l'milchama al oivecha, and by halachic standards, Israel's wars are milchemet mitzvah). Not every student is qualified to be a Torah batlan. I suspect you are in the unqualified group.

I was not opposing the idea that Torah protects klal Yisroel. I was opposing the idea that every shmegegeh's repetition of words on a page constitutes the type of learning that protects klal Yisroel. It seems we agree somewhat but you are just too ignorant or more likely arrogant to process the point.

Also directed at the Haredi troll:

I also do not understand why you want to fight such people that oppose your views. According to you, there is no need to ever to fight. Your intimated physical threats are of little concern, as you apparently have a philosophical problem with fighting, choosing instead to rely on Torah learning. Or are you just an anti-semite / self hating Jew, choosing to go to war against Jews instead of enemies of Jews?

If it fails to protect you in the end, consider this. Maybe it is not the learnING, maybe it is the learnER.

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