« Baltimore Shomrim Member Gets Award From San Francisco Cops | Main | Video: Baruch Dayan HaEmet – Ed Koch »

February 01, 2013

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

R. Wisler

Perhaps they are lying with technicalities over what is defined as an "emissary" and what what is defined as a "director of education"? What title does Feller have for example?

dh

The Los Angeles Jewish Journal? Whatever for?

liars

In this interview he is listed as being a Chabad Shliach and he even talk about wanting to be a shliach from a young age and when he was sent on shlichus etc. http://www.collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=14043

Garnel Ironheart

Simple explanantion: he's just been fired but they haven't updated the website yet.

norm

The real question I have is what is Chabad?

Is it an organization similar to the Catholic Church which has a central office and many franchises and company stores? Or is it like the Prostestan "Church" of which anyone can open a store and worship Jesus?

More specifically are the lcoal St. Louis Chabad organizations (ie Chabad on Campus) or the Chabad House on Delmar) independant groups which someone with a beard, balck hat and relgious trainign have set up on their own or are they in fact emissaries of Central Chabad?

I'm not arguing I just want to know.

R. Wisler

I can't conceive of them firing him. They'd be nuts to let their prime attraction go! Without Friedman, I'd think that the St. Paul Chabad organization would wither pretty quickly (haven't been there in 30 years, but he was the "star attraction" when I was going to college in Minneapolis).

Shmarya

Perhaps they are lying with technicalities over what is defined as an "emissary" and what what is defined as a "director of education"? What title does Feller have for example?

Posted by: R. Wisler | February 01, 2013 at 12:53 PM


No. He's a shaliach (emissary), Feller is a shaliach, Grossbaum is a shaliach, etc.

Korbendallas72

Chabad is the world's leading franchiser of pedophiles, idolatry, and horseshit.

dh

I had a Chabad rabbi tell me he never heard of Chabad.info. Chabad.org told me Chabad.info is "just a couple of bad apples" and it shouldn't keep me from donating. But they all told me there was only one Chabad.

Curiouser and curiouser.

ah-pee-chorus

and the rebbe who graduated with multiple advanced degrees from the sorbonne is still alive. at least theyre consistent.

Tsugin

Shmarya--
I'm not sure that the Chabad.org list is the same as the official list of emissaries of the Shluchim Office (which is a division of the central Chabad organization, Merkos L'Inyonei Chinuch; see wikipedia for more). There is a difference between official shluchim and people who work for official outreach programs. From my own experiences, including him having spoken before Musaf in the shul I was attending in Crown Heights last Shabbos, he isn't introduced as a 'shliach' but as a 'speaker' and with other such titles. That's not to say that Chabad did/didn't do enough to distance itself from his comments, but I don't think they "lied" as you claim.

Anyway, who was The Age's source whom they say spoke on behalf of "Chabad Lubavitch"? Is that person an official spokesman?

ah-pee-chorus

what they should have said is that friedmans remarks were his own and dont represent chabads position or views. there was no need to lie and make it look like he's some unaffiliated maverick.

Editor

Shmarya--

Im not sure that the Chabad.org list is the same as the official list of emissaries of the Shluchim Office (which is a division of the central Chabad organization, Merkos LInyonei Chinuch; see wikipedia for more). There is a difference between official shluchim and people who work for official outreach programs. From my own experiences, including him having spoken before Musaf in the shul I was attending in Crown Heights last Shabbos, he isnt introduced as a shliach but as a speaker and with other such titles. Thats not to say that Chabad did/didnt do enough to distance itself from his comments, but I dont think they lied as you claim.

Anyway, who was The Ages source whom they say spoke on behalf of Chabad Lubavitch? Is that person an official spokesman?

You may not be sure but there is reality.

The Chabad.org list ***IS*** official. Manis has been a shaliach since the late 1960s. And you have ZERO idea what youre talking about. As for The Age, no, I expect they asked a 3 year old child on the street and then misrepresented it so you could play gotcha and feel smart.

S M L

Chabad is the world's leading franchiser of pedophiles, idolatry, and horseshit.

Posted by: Korbendallas72 | February 01, 2013 at 01:57 PM

ROTFLMAO!

Tsugin

I didn't say it wasn't a list of those official affiliated, just that it's not the official list of shluchim.

My reason for asking about The Age's source is that this discussion is about who are the official representatives of the very organization that might be tied to Rabbi Friedman. I'm not questioning their journalistic integrity, but I think it's fair to wonder if they were confused by what is the evidently non-black-and-white answer to "who represents Chabad?"

Specifically what do I "have zero idea what [I'm] talking about"? I spoke with measured words for a reason and gave my personal experience. My only contention in my post was that the Chabad spokesperson didn't necessarily or technically lie, and no further.

jancsibacsi

Korbendallas72--Chabad is the world's leading franchiser of pedophiles, idolatry, and horseshit.
i think you are mistaking,its the satmerers who are the champion of those you mentioned.

flora freida

shame on you chabad, shame on you "rabi" Menis Friedman.

Editor

Tsugin –

Please. Stop your BS and your lies.

There is no confusion here – except yours.

Friedman is a shaliach and he has been one since the late 1960s. He was at one time the Rebbe's official English-language simultaneous translator who translated the Rebbe's televised talks live as they happened.

Your lies are sickening.

And to make your stupidity and your lies even clearer, I just went to Lubavitch.com, the official website of Chabad's International Headquarters in Brooklyn – i.e., Merkos L'inyonei Chinuch Lubavitch, the organization that sends out emissaries, shluchim. I made a screenshot of Bais Chana's entry and posted it above. Friedman is listed as the director.

Process that.

Yosef ben Matitya

not emissary?
a- may be because that who appointed him died?!
b- it's also that his speeches on sex abuse could hurt fund raising. they are better off discarding him while keeping fooling honest donors into thinking that chasbad is progressive.
after all all those hats are emissaries of a dead man. all we could do is verify with him, no?

Yosef ben Matitya

i think you are mistaking,its the satmerers who are the champion of those you mentioned.

u sure? jancsi?
u r right per capita.
but satmar abuse their own within their communities.
no real outreach to speak of.
chabad is in the 4 corners of the world, and out to fool the entire jewish people ++++

ah-pee-chorus

chabad is in the 4 corners of the world, and out to fool the entire jewish people ++++

Posted by: Yosef ben Matitya


youre right. chabad is far more dangerous.

BeenThereDoneThat

CHAmorim BAlih Daas

Sums it all up.

The philosophy of idiots.

Althelion

Manis has made ignorant comments before (i.e. his take on "Jewish war"), and he more than likely will again. He IS a Chabad spokesman who has been given the resonsibilty of disseminating the news of the world to chabadniks with a particular Chabad spin. Make no mistake, he believes that sexual abuse is like diarrhea. And now so do many, many chabadniks. Manis Friedman's apology is diarrhea.

der ruv

I am surprised Melbourne Yeshivah Centre are drawing more attention to themselves by lying. They have deeper problems. They now have two scum-bags wandering around the Shul who are strongly suspected of pedophilia, incest, eishes ish and more. At least one of these little worms is very active in trying to get other congregants not to talk to Zephaniah Waks, father of Manny who has been very active in exposing Manis Friedman. Obviously, this evil little person has been working overtime in the last week as the scandal unfolded.

Manis Depressive

A commentator asked the other day if rabbi's can lose their smicha because of criminal convictions or for saying things which show an utter lack of empathy and understanding of the human condition. I would recommend letting them keep the Rabbi title and adding the following words: Mhallel HaShem and then the rabbi's last name. That would be justice.

Tsugin

Shmarya--
You were right. I asked a few folks and they confirmed that he's a Shliach and not just something else. I never claimed to *know* that he wasn't, reported from my own experience, and used the word "think" purposefully. So although I don't agree with your characterization of me as a liar, I was wrong.

dh

Tsugin @5:55

As my dear old friend Kathryn used to say, "Money talks, bullshit walks."

Abracadabra

What I think about Rabbi Manis Friedman's apology:

1. It is a start.

2. BUT it is a rather weak and lame apology considering the MANY AWFUL things he said on both the audio and video. He should have addressed EACH point he made on those audio and video recordings, and apologized for each and every one of them, explaining for each point how and in what way he was misguided and mistaken, and retracting each of the those points (including the jokes he made).

3. Together with a detailed apology as specified in #2 above, he should be offering to work to support activists and organizations in the field of battling sexual abuse in the frum world. He should specifically be focusing on frum camps and schools where he said in the audio recordings that that kind of sexual abuse it is just a part of life, and victims should just deal with it and stop whining.

4. After #3, above, he should be showing his face over the next 3 years (3 being a chazakah) in secular court in support of victims at sexual abuse hearings relating to the frum world, similar to how he went out of his way to show his face in support of Rubashkin at the SMR trials in Iowa. Tikun and Teshuvah do not only involve lip service but following up with one's actions.

Nothing short of the above #2-4 would convince me that his apology, 4 days after the story went viral, was not simply an attempt to contain the tide of criticism, and do some damage control.

Eli, what me messiah?

I've heard that Chabad lacks much of an organizational hierarchy and that 770 in Brooklyn exercises no control over the schluchim, basically treating them like other Christian missionaries sent to remote locations hundreds of years ago.

This may be just a way to maintain plausible deniability when things go awry, or could also be organizational incompetence and chaos. For example, as reported on FM previously, "Chabad" won a suit against Russia for not delivering the library of Sherlock Holmes in Yiddish, while "Chabad's" chief rabbi Russia claimed this had nothing to do with the organization. ok, which is it?

Purposeful or just disorganized?

der ruv

Abracadabra: great! I'm not holding my breath though. Eli, what me: forget about 770 control, what about his head shaliach? They are as territorial as alley-cats when someone moves on to their turf, but nowhere to be found when things go wrong. Doesn't he have a superior at the seminary? Can't be good for business.

Fleishike Kishke

When a Chabad missionary does something "good," he's part of a movement that has 4,000 branches and growing. When a Chabad missionary does something "bad" (even if he’s got the stature of Minus Friedman), “he's a lone individual calling himself a Chabad missionary.” I don't think you'll find one exception to this "phenomenon."

R. Wisler

Abra,
Did Manis Friedman really show public support for Rubashkin? Did he issue any statements?

Wool Silk Cotton, sports star and rock superstar

R. Wisler, there were numerous photographs of SMR standing on the courthouse steps with Rabbi Penis Friedman at his side.

me

I think its quite simple what happened.

The Age doesn't have a clue about Chabad structure, and in their first article represented Friedman as "emissary at large" for Chabad, which to me is a spokesperson and leader.

Here is their quote "Rabbi Friedman is an emissary at large from the Chabad Lubavitch headquarters in New York, and has been generally regarded as a serious and moderate figure in the Orthodox movement."

When the reached out to "Chabad Lubavitch" they were probably told he is not a "emissary at large" but a "Teacher in SP".

"After The Age reported Rabbi Friedman's remarks on Friday, Chabad Lubavitch said Rabbi Friedman was not a Chabad emissary, as reported, but a Minnesota-based teacher who did not speak for Chabad."

All in all The Age got it wrong twice.

put a square into a hole

Who is A real Shliach???

Rabbi Moshe Kotlarsky deciedes who is a shaliach!!!
If you are not politically correct you are not (anymore) a shilach.
R Manis was and is a Shliach of the Rebbe no matter what thr shulichem office, kotlarsky or krinsky say PERIOD.
If you want to boycot friedman for his shit that he says than go boycott his son's music BENNY FRIEDMAN....As a person that was molested as a child I was appaulled at what he said. He should hide his face in shame. Or mabey in a Minisita mikvah with a few pedophiles.
Just to show how full of crap krinsky is, his daughter is married to manis friedmans brother. Hwe was king of the hill until kotlarsky & krinsky deceided that it doesn't suit them than in a flash you are nomore a shliach.

Wool Silk Cotton, sports star and rock superstar

Put a square into a hole, the egregious things that Rabbi Penis Friedman said weren't a matter of 'political correctness', although I sort of agree with you that if a shaliach says something publicly that could affect donations from nonfrum Jews, then Chabad will quickly throw them under the bus.

dh

The ubiquitous and oft times dead rebbe sent Manny to open Beis Chana, right? So how can he not be a shaliach?

Chabad describes him as "world-renowned counselor and philosopher on emotional wellbeing, self-help and spirituality" and a "counselor" "With a kind and sensitive nature" but do they describe him as Chabad? Everyone else does.

It is very disturbing that he has and still does counsel females at Beis Chana, where I know for a fact that Chabad Rabbis and their wives reported child abuse perpetrated on young female students there to the school, rather than to child services or law enforcement. Oooooh, now I get it. It's self-help for Chabad, not victims.

He's not a licensed counselor any more than my little doggie. I wonder what else they have in common.

dh

I was not implying that I have personal knowledge of students being abused at the school. I only have personal knowledge of abuse at the child's home that was only reported to the school.

Jay Spinner

I have no problem woth your argument that Manis is still Chabaf. Of that I'm sure. But who pray tell said he wasn't which is what you base your whole convaluted posting on. A secretary? A spokesman? A leading Chabad rabbi?

You see Shmarya bubeleh this is why you're losing readers by the day. Not just because of your double standards (no name calling except for you) and not just because most of your stories are duplicated. But because in your attempt to be original you concoct stories out of fluff this is a case in point.

dh

The issue is not whether he is affiliated with Chabad, the issue is whether he is a shliach.

It is not possible that FM is losing audience. It continues, with more frequency, to be cited internationally. That generates clicks. So, spin that, you anti-clickite.

The rules are for visitors, not owners.

There is something on your shoe.

put a square into a hole

To WSC
I see you finally you agree with me one topic.....

To DH

Interesting that you call Manis a counsoler you remind me of another Rabbi that claimed to be an unlicensed counslor Rabbi weberman
BTW
Manis friedman has a brother who is married to webermans cousin (originally from Miami)

dh

I didn't call him a counselor, Chabad does. And I bet that's the first thing they change. They will now invent a new name because it will occur to them that it violates law. So hurry up ppl and start complaining like good consumers.

And while we're at it... start looking at all self & Chabad proclaimed "counselors" with access to children.

put a square into a hole

To DH

I think that ALL people have to look at "counselors" who have acess to children. NOT just Chabad or for that matter the frum community. Look at the cathiloc churches....
Pedophiles (counslors) come in ALL shapes, sizes & religions

Wool Silk Cotton, sports star and rock superstar

I can't begin to imagine what kind of abuse goes on at that Chabad Baal Tshuva 'school' for young women in Minnesota, where Rabbi Penis Friedman is a big macher.

Imagine an institute full of vulnerable psychologically troubled women who have decided to look up to and try everything to please their 'rabbis'.

dh

Why only women? Doesn't that give you the willies?

dh

Did you really mean "bludging?"

W. Drori

WSC,
Please don't get into that. There have never been any accusations of sexual impropriety at that program. The crime is that they do plenty of cult-like brainwashing in terms of sloganeering, idiotic nursery rhymes and simplistic songs promoting the avodah- zorah Schneersohn "I want to be... at seven-seventy...", etc. However, there are plenty of adult women there to safeguard the girls.

Wool Silk Cotton, sports star and rock superstar

Drori, I am relieved to hear that there are adult women to keep an eye on things.

dh

Perfect.

Yerachmiel Lopin

I have posted a full transcript of the audio of the Manis Friedman speech trivializing sex abuse. http://frumfollies.wordpress.com/2013/02/03/full-transcript-of-manis-friedman-trivializing-sex-abuse/

dh

Wasn't it all here?

Shmarya

Yes, the full audio was posted here days ago.

J K Dates

this is my first read of the postings on this feed.
I see nothing to indicate that any of the posters has a wit of knowledge of TALMUD, Laws of Family Purity, Niddah, Beth Din. Without this insite
to the laws gouverning; in this case sexual conduct/misconduct,no cogent arguement can be made.
As to the 'what is chabad?' question, any child
in a religious school should be able to take apart
the word to grasp its meaning.
J.K. b-A

R. Wisler

JK,
There has been no need for any of us yeshiva-trained "posters" to display our knowledge of "TALMUD, Laws of Family Purity, Niddah, Beth Din". since this discussion has absolutely nothing to do with the above list. It has to do with statements made by a public figure about the psychology of victims of pedophilia and how they should deal with it.

Your statement above is a non-sequitur with regard to this discussion.

lamplighter

Be the light not the darkness. Focusing on darkness brings darkness. Keeping in this path will drag you down. Hating and hating, insulting each other. The hot steam of anger is dangerous. I understand the blog owner does this to generate an income, he won't change. If we all focused on light we would be a lot more successful. Sad story. Meanwhile all this darkness drags you lower and lower. Make some changes in your life and stop hating. Try that and your life will change.Your will be in a better place in your life. I personally don't hate any of you, just wished you changed.

RachelS2

Well, to throw in a comment to an old story, I sat for weeks at Manis' feet in MN, at 2am with many other vulnerable young women listening to his tales of wonder. He became famous in my mind for saying: Being religious is like being pregnant, either you ARE or you Aren't" and went on to explain why Chabad was the only true form/path of Judaism. We ate it up. He's not a shliach? Ask his long suffering wife Chani who already had a gaggle of kids to raise mostly alone while Manis spent the wee hours with adoring young women. The Cult of Manis is actually more sickening then what was created on the passing of the Rebbe.

FactsRule

Neither Chabad nor you twisted haters should throw a man under the bus for one mistake made, ignoring 40 years of helping countless people in many ways with only good intentions. You are far sicker than he will ever be.
My local Lubavitch Rabbi has been an incredible savior for me, helping me in the nicest kindest ways to grow from almost being as jaded as you sick puppies to at least doing a whole hell of alot more Jewishly & materially than I have for a long time. Millions of people are affected in the most positive ways by Chabad emissaries daily and have been for many decades.
You'd do well to focus your attacks on the people guilty of persistent evil and give credit when usually good people apologize.
And, if someone in control of Lubavitch said that Rabbi Friedman is (no longer) a shliach, perhaps that's what they meant to say, no longer, not that he hasn't been all these decades. I would oppose their cowardly throwing him under the bus if he realized that he was mistaken in his understanding and apologized. If these people in charge don't think Rabbi Friedman ever made other mistakes in the past, they might be looking for a bridge for sale to Manhattan. Shouldn't they fire themselves for not having fired him before he had the chance to say something like this that got him into trouble & has people like who look at this web site shrieking about how bad Chabad is?
You'd do better to look for ways to positively judge well-intentioned people who spend every moment of their lives trying to be helpful to the Jewish people rather than discrediting yourselves with boundless hatred.
You could play a constructive role in weeding out bad apples instead of being a self-perpetuating hate group whose hatred makes you empirically biased & stupid at times.
Btw, your real enemy always chomping at the bit to murder you & yours is www.thereligionofpeace.com

Editor

Unfortunately, this is not the first mistake Manis Friedman has made – there is very long string of them, dating back into (at least) the early 1970s.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Your Information

(Name and email address are required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

Search this site with Google:

Comment Rules

  1. No anonymous comments.
  2. Use only one name or alias and stick with that.
  3. Do not use anyone else's name or alias.
  4. Do not sockpuppet.
  5. Try to argue using facts and logic.
  6. Do not lie.
  7. No name-calling, please.
  8. Do not post entire articles or long article excerpts.
***Violation of these rules may lead to the violator's comments being edited or his future comments being banned.***
6a00d83451b71f69e201b8d1656462970c-250wi

FailedMessiah.com in the Media