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January 03, 2013

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Jeff

Jeff -either the Kotel is our holiest place of worship or its Columbia University 1968- your choice.

Posted by: spacedout BT | January 05, 2013 at 09:09 PM

Fine, but what the women are doing isn't "unholy". As Shmarya keeps pointing out, they're doing what they are entitled, halakhically, to do. If the bearded wonders don't like it, they can look the other way.

It always comes down to this: they think they own Judaism, and they deign to tolerate the rest of us as long as we recognize their inherent superiority and support them financially. I'm sick of it.

spacedout BT

Jeff- you miss my whole point. If the Chareidim only ignored the Wall Women- eventually the latter would go away. Instead the "religious zealots" scream and throw chairs- hence the Rav's letter voicing his legitimate fears that someone will get hurt.Jeff -either the Kotel is our holiest place of worship or its Columbia University 1968- your choice.

Tuvia

The Rabbi calls the actions of the Women of the Wall movement "controversial and unusual". This isn't a matter of keeping the wall 'holy'. This all comes down to Orthodoxy's vile hatred of women.

Just Curious

Haredi Rabbi Rabinowitz is creating a false dichotomy.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Kudos to Shmarya for exposing the fallacy of this guy's "argument" in his clear-eyed post.

In response to those criticizing Shmarya for his lack of objectivity in this post:

Note that Shmarya does not present this as piece of original reportage (he does not sign his name/site to a byline, and adheres to his usual practice of using offset text to indicate the article/op-ed he is commenting upon). Rather, it is very clearly a critique--and an incisive one, at that--by Shmarya of this other guy's opinion piece.

Redleg

Yes, Shemarya, you do occasionally post items that are complementary but do you deny that you have a bias? I read a variety of Jblogs from Right to left, mostly to pass the time. They all have their own agendas and biases. Hey, it's okay to have a point of view. Don't deny your prejudices, embrace them. I disagree with many of your positions, agree with some of them and often find your attitude and demeanor smugly obnoxious. Nevertheless, I read your blog regularly and find it occasionally informative and usually entertaining. Keep up the good (?) work.

Jeff

The "Wall Women" think the Kotel is a scenario for pushing an agenda as if it were the Berkely or NYU campus

Posted by: spacedout BT | January 03, 2013 at 09:13 PM

What is their agenda - protesting the Haredi monopoly of the Wall and engaging in practices in which halakha permits them to engage?

Should Heschel and King not have marched on Selma because segregation was legal then?

Account Deleted

Maybe then Jews will come to their senses and put an end to their idolatrous worship of sand and stone.

Posted by: Johan Viljoen | January 03, 2013 at 12:42 AM

Not to mention those poor fools that visit their dead Rebbe's graves to talk to them and ask for favors.

Account Deleted

Let me see Filipo,,,you start with..."you are really one pathetic piece of useless shit....You really are one rotten, miserable and disgustingly fat pig of a human being..."

A true display of verbal diarrhea. The you go on and say..." I'm definitely not haredi--I work, I served in the army, I take my kids to places that aren't open on shabbat, i sit next to women on the bus, i shake their hands, i go to bars sometimes etc.............."

I know, I know, you missed your bipolar medications. By the way, poor kids, very miserable must they be, I am sure you treat them the same way you treat the host of this site when you get pissed off at them. Or perhaps you have a Napoleonic complex and want to compensate for your short stature? You caught your mom and dad having anal sex when you were 6? Your Rabbi sat you on his lap for too long while reciting mythical stories about Moses and all those fairy tales? Tell us, open to us. Let all that anger vent out. I can also think your intestines are connected through your mouth and not your anus, there is surgery for that. Whatever it is, get some help before you harm those poor kids of yours.

spacedout BT

This controversy is not about the right of women to wear taleisim and tefillin. Its about women provoking violent reactions by their behavior at the Kotel and the physical and spiritual harm arising from it. The Rav of the Kotel is totally justified in voicing his fears about sinas chinam and its consequences. The "Wall Women" think the Kotel is a scenario for pushing an agenda as if it were the Berkely or NYU campus

Gefilte Fish

There is nothing more disruptive at the Kotel than a Karliner minyan, a group of hasidim screaming – and I mean this literally – at the top of their lungs, completely unconcerned about who may be trying to pray normally nearby. They are disruptive in the extreme. They are violating explicit halakha. (But heck, it's okay because their rebbe did it.)

Coincidentally, I am a Carliner chossid. Like Reb George, I spend my days making sardonic remarks about society and politics, and often drop the f-bomb. However, when I am at the Kotel, I refrain from doing that, out of respect for my fellow humans.

anti-agenda arguments

Posted by: Shmarya | January 03, 2013 at 03:12 PM

Absolutely. Some of those are an absolute farce.

Shmarya

Posted by: anti-agenda arguments | January 03, 2013 at 03:02 PM

Do you admit that VIN, Yeshiva World, Matzav, Hamodia, Der Yid, Der Blatt, The Algemeiner, etc., "don't offer balance"?

anti-agenda arguments

Posted by: Shmarya | January 03, 2013 at 02:48 PM


Your entitled to post with any mission goal you want. That doesn't change the fact, that though your reasons may be justifiable, the image your blog presents is a slanted view of orthodoxy; That doesn't mean your reporting is untrue (and it is my impression that you are pretty reliable) just you don't offer balance.

Shmarya

Posted by: Ray Kaufman | January 03, 2013 at 02:32 PM

I try to accurate report the truth. My reporting is accurate.

I don't do many positive stories on Orthodox Judaism because I lack the time and the resources to so them, and because the haredi and regular Jewish press is full of what amounts to press releases about the great works these Jewish orgs do.

The odd thing, though, is that when objective reporters actually decide to investigate, a lot of these press releases quickly seem to be a lot less than truthful.

And you wouldn't like it if I were to start checking those out, now would you?

Ray Kaufman

You know, Filipo, you've gotta give Shemarya his props. He let you post your diatribe instead of just deleting it. I once wrote a similar response to one of Avi Shafran's articles and he shut down his whole comments section.

Look, Shemarya makes no pretense about being an objective reporter. He has a well known agenda and his posts are selected (and occasionally manipulated) to fit that agenda. if you want objective news reporting, there are plenty of other blogs and sites that do that, or start your own. on the other hand, this is the place to go for a little laugh or to get your blood pressure up.

anti-agenda arguments

Your claim that women wearing talit is permitted is untrue. It is a "controversial and unusual ceremonies at the holy site." The Rema, Maharam and others disapprove of it. Also, contemporary rabbis like R' Moshe Feinstein and R' J. Soleveitchik also would not view it positively.

Dovid

Filipo, I'm not interested in what Shmarya (or anyone else)looks like nor in reading about it. Or in reading your abuse and obscenity-laden hysteria. Crawl back under your rock.

Filipo

@jewish john holmes: i doubt Shmarya has ever gotten laid. no woman would ever want to sleep (drunk or not) with a pig like him. he is the prototype of loser.
my wife ain't 300 pounds (yet!)

@alter kocker
Shmarya has every right to attack the frum. i have no problem with it at all. it's his pathetic bias that he tries to pawn off as fact that makes him useless. he never corrects any accusations when they turn out to be false or untrue. instead of simply reporting his discoveries in a proper fashion, he twists & turns them to fit his agenda.
I never said i was holy. I never even said I'm a Jew (I am) but I'm definitely not haredi--I work, I served in the army, I take my kids to places that aren't open on shabbat, i sit next to women on the bus, i shake their hands, i go to bars sometimes etc..............

Alter Kocker

Filipo:

Ah, the hate of the bearded wonders who have hijacked a faith and then twisted it to exclude those that will not follow in their path while brainwashing adherents and proselytizing those weak and lost souls into believing the easy answers offered in return for blind obedience to a set of arbitrary rules and wizardry. In short Filipo, Shmarya has more than every right to attack you and your frum shit-bag friends, family and associates. You are not fucking holy. You are not Jews. You are filth. You ignore Halacha and twist your ignorance into new Halacha. Zealotry? If you are a Jewish zealot, then encourage Judaism, let those who want to commune with their G-d go to Kotel. Deny the women of the wall all you want shit-bag, they are the future, no matter how many piglets your semen repository (wife) can shit out every year.

Sarek

I love that he says others are zealots, but he alone stands for truth, justice, and the halakian way.

What a tzaddik. I am in awe of his presence.

So who died and made him God?

/sarcasm off

Jewish John Holmes

Yo Filipo - Shmarya's cool. If I had hundreds of hot shiksas begging for my boner I wouldn't be married either...

So what do you have at home waiting for you when you get home from maariv? Some ugly 300lb overgrown baggy-eyed slob with a gag reflex?

Pete Seeger

Dear Filipo,

You are a moron.

Steven

Which button do you push for 'flag disgusting comment and delete.'?

SMR

Yep, Shlomo1 is right. The Rashi's daughters thing is just a myth with no source.

Filipo171

you know Shmarya (Scottie)--you are really one pathetic piece of useless shit. Whatever benefit your site does provide (the exposure of issues in the orthodox world) are completely nullified by the pathetic, and oh so obvious tainted bias. It removes ALL vestiges of credibility that you could potentially offer.
You really are one rotten, miserable and disgustingly fat pig of a human being (the fact that you became a chabadnik proves how stupid you really are)
Can you give us some insight into how come you're not married? one would think that there are hundreds of hot shiksa's just begging to swallow the cock of the incredible anti-orthodox blogger.
Like I said fat boy, you're pathetic.

Billy Saaphire

Johan - "salutary"

Etzem Ha Yeshua

Hashem really knows how to throw a Churban! Leave just enough standing to keep the fire burning indefinitely - till we finally get this Sinas Chinam business under control. No wonder it's been two thousand years. Oddly enough, it's like, when all the Shmaryas have no more entries to post, and we have no more shitty comments to add, then maybe it will be time. I'm not holding my breath.

Johan Viljoen

The destruction of the temple had a most salutory effect on the evolution of Judaism. Today, the best thing that can be done with regard to this "golden calf" which the kotel has become, is to tear it down and leave the space to the Muslims. Maybe then Jews will come to their senses and put an end to their idolatrous worship of sand and stone.

Shlomo1

I'll think you'll find that there is no historical evidence that Rashi's daughters wore Tefillin other women may have in medieval times and Rabbanu Tam allowed women to make a brachah for a mitzvah that they weren't obligated to do unlike sephardim. It's really a myth that surfaced fairly recently. However the Talmud explains that Michal the daughter of Saul and wife of king David wore them.

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