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January 22, 2013


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Okay, that's dealing with a murderer. But, again what penalty would an autonomous Beis Din mete out in the case of rape of an UNMARRIED woman?

Posted by: Still begs an answer | January 25, 2013 at 08:37 AM

Are you really this stupid?

Read my comment. It's very clear. If you don't understand it, get help for yourself. Go take an MMPI, get evaluated and get treatment.

Still begs an answer

Still begs an answer:

Okay, that's dealing with a murderer. But, again what penalty would an autonomous Beis Din mete out in the case of rape of an UNMARRIED woman?


Now, don't get me wrong

Posted by: What does the TORAH say? | January 24, 2013 at 09:30 PM

It's hard not to get you wrong.

Dina d'malchuta dina is a halakhic concept that states that any criminal or legal issue that does not infringe directly on an actual mitzvah commanded by the Torah is in the province of whatever host government we live under.

So a secular law forbidding rape that punishes rape with a long prison term would be accepted under dina d'malchita dina.

But a secular law commanding all citizens to eat pork on Saturdays would not.

If Jews are being singled out for significantly harsher sentences (you can't prove this to be true by one or two cases, by the way) then the law would usually be rejected.

Past all this, you're wrong about how batei din acted in the years when Jews had enough autonomy to jail criminals and issue corporal punishment.

Criminals who were a danger to others were often jailed for extended amounts of time or turned over to secular police and secular courts for punishment.

A person dayanim believed to be a murderer, but the beit din did not have 2 kosher witnesses to his crime, imprisoned the suspected murderer and starved him to death. The idea was that if this person was really innocent, God would find a way to feed him. If he was guilty, he would die of starvation. This was done because the community had to be protected, potential victims had to be protected.

The problem, I think, is that haredi misivtas and yeshivas rarely teach any of this, and therefore haredim mostly don't know any of it. And that impacts Modern Orthodoxy, as well, because many teachers in MO day schools are haredi.

What does the TORAH say?

Please don't get me wrong here. I'm kind of playing devils advocate. But could this be why the Rabbis have a different take on this then the secular world?

Terrible! He raped an unmarried minor, so we jump on the bandwagon and say "let him rot!" Maybe he deserves it, according to the law of the land.
But, correct me if I'm missing something. Doesn't the Torah require the rapist to just pay a fine and even marry her? So, when the law of the land and the Torah contradict, which one do we go by?
I mean, it seems that, according to the literal meaning of what the Torah says, the rapist (in the case of an unmarried woman) gets away with just a fine, and may even have to marry the victim, cannot divorce her ever!
Case in point. Let's say we live in an Arab country, where the penalty for theft is be-handing. Are we going to insist that our brother thief lose his hand or go according to the Torah?
Now, don't get me wrong


Is mrs weberman going to seek a divorce from her estranged husband, so that she is available to marry mr teitelbaum and have an active sex life with mr teitelbaun.


I grew up in the frum community and attended charedi schools through the age of 19. I spent many years as an Assistant District Attorney prosecuting crimes against children (physical and sexual abuse).
Every time that I see the frum community support molestors and attack victims based upon the complete mischaracterization of what "mesirah" is it literally makes me sick.
The stress and pain that victims go through in having to testify about something so painful and personal is beyond belief. To have that pain compounded by having their community "leaders" attack and undermine them is as bad as the abuse itself. These are supposed to be the people that set moral and ethical examples for us all. Instead, they do the opposite. They may dress and act the part but those who act this way clearly have given up their chalek in olam haba.If you won't protect those who can't protect themselves you are worth nothing!
Having seen first hand the way that the frum community handles this issue I made the decision to put my children in a conservative day school. I would rather that they end up less than frum rather than become victims or be given this type of (im)moral foundation.
I hope that this young lady can find some peace and that those in the frum community recognize her heroism and learn from it.


Why Weberman, perhaps is it that ?הלכה בידוע שעשיו שונא ליעקב

“Here in the United States, where there is a reported rape every 6.2 minutes, and one in five women will be raped in her lifetime”

“though a rape is reported only every 6.2 minutes in this country, the estimated total is perhaps five times as high. Which means that there may be very nearly a rape a minute in the U.S. It all adds up to tens of millions of rape victims.”

“Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta estimated that there were 19,000 sexual assaults on fellow soldiers in 2010 alone and that the great majority of assailants got away with it”


By: Rebecca Solnit


you are a lying skunk
There are some rotten apples everywhere
Btw, why are you living with the Chasidim if you hate them so much?
Most Chasidem are decent upstanding people, and besides for you and the nazis nobody says "they are all guilty"
A-hole, with sh*t for brains

old time brooklyn

Shmarya - you did a great service for all but especially the satmar. I have Satmar neighbors at my vacation home near KJ and I would trust them with my life. I have been to all theirs kids weddings and have been to shabbbos dinner more than a few times. When the babies came along the were here and we were holding them and some teethed on out fingers. her brother plays like Jeff Beck. We talked about this case and it is well known the crap that happens. They refer to the folks in KJ as hillbilies - they have been to the Vatican (and had no problem - you can be observant in a modern world. This girl is in ways is a woman's Boston Tea Party.

Joe Field

Posted by: WILLYS BURG | January 23, 2013 at 07:00 PM

What disturbs you more, his molestation of a child or cutting off someone’s beard. Not to make light of the assault if it did happen but come-on you cannot compare it to what he did to this and other victims.






What really appalls me is that people like Weberman, like Amalek, go after the weaklings, the nebachs, who are kind of on the fringe of the community. So, who would support them in their time of need?
Let's level the playing field a little, like pick on someone your own size. What would happen if he did it to one of the REBBE's kids?! Now, are they still going to support him , or more like beat him up or worse?

Joe Field

Posted by: Simple Jew | January 22, 2013 at 09:09 PM

Wrong, I see lots of OTD people who write eloquently, irrespective of their Chasidic education. That is a testament to their individual perseverance.


"The only Jewish community site that did cover all of it is FailedMessiah.com."

And therein is the reason we need to dig deep to support, thank and recognize Shmarya.


Its interesting elazar abuhatzeira from ber sheva robbed ovrer 300 milllion dollars from inocent victims got no jail time weberman gets 103years this is unbeleivable

Bas Melech

I brought up Rubashkin, because his sentence was determined by sentencing guidelines, not antisemitism or a harsh judge.

My comment was that Weberman was sentenced on each count that he was found guilty of. Therefore, a total of 103 years cumulative is not excessive. The question to ask is if the sentences for each crime could be concurrent to give him less time.


James-- You are truly either evil or brain damaged theese things like rape and molestations are going on in their communities for many years and its well known that rabbis and many in the community are hiding or indifferent to the victims yes they are just as guilty as the perpetrator and you james are one mindless zombie to defend them .


"He weberman is a product of his community they are all guilty since they kept quiet "

Now it's guilt by association?

What a silly comment.
You must've heard some nazi blaming all the Jews for one persons sin.


Bas meleh
and all the the other geniuses
I did not defend or say anything about Weberman
All I said was 103 years is much worse than murder. Excessive punishment makes people lose faith in such a system
Oh and since you asked so "nicely", I think Rubashkins 27 years was also excessive.


Kudos to Shmarya!


Props to Shmarya for all the work involved in keeping all of us worldwide up to date on this. On behalf of FM fans everywhere, thank you.


He should be put in a cell with Aron Levy, stripped naked, doused in KY and let the jail dogs loose on them both. Eh, maybe hold the KY-let 'er rip!


Posted by: Simple Jew | January 22, 2013 at 09:09 PM

She left that educational system when she was 15 and got a better secular education, which she was able to supplement through her own hard work.

She's also a female, and females generally get much better secular educations than males do in the haredi system anyway.

And she's really smart.

And that brings us to you, Simple Man. And we all know what you are – and what you are not.

Just sayin'…

Simple Jew


Serious question:

Lots of compliments and kudos to this young woman on her eloquent writing.

Reminder: She went through that educational system that Shmarya was blasting on another post.

Just sayin...


In jail or out of jail, just another charedi parasite living on the government's dime. James and Nebach, you are absolutely right, he should not have gotten a day in jail....he should have his balls removed and the families of all of his victims should be allowed to beat him to the point of near death whenever and wherever they please. It's cheaper and a bigger deterrent. but given that we live in a civilized country jail will suffice.


All VIN posted were stories related to his conviction and sentence, I think. They didn't cover the trial itself.

The only Jewish community site that did cover all of it is FailedMessiah.com.

Posted by: Shmarya | January 22, 2013 at 06:57 PM

Yep, I didn't realize that as well. It seems most of the frum websites were pretty quiet about it. *ahem* no wonder. Thanks for reporting all this and keep up the good work!


Too bad Shmarya didn't live closer to NYC to cover the trial himself - would have been very interesting.

Kudos to Shmarya's conscientious work.


As I mentioned in another thread, YWN had something earlier in the day in the "news" section, not the "Coffee Room" discussion area. I suspect they pulled it because there were too many anti-Weberman comments.


"The only Jewish community site that did cover all of it is FailedMessiah.com."

And for this, we should all be thankful for your relentless pursuit of justice. Your mitzvahs run 24/7 globally giving a voice and putting a face on abuse in the haredi world.


As far as I know YWN posted nothing about Weberman at all, not even the guilty proclamation a month ago. Unless there was an article I'm unaware of, YWN has said nothing about it.

Posted by: Mike | January 22, 2013 at 06:49 PM

All VIN posted were stories related to his conviction and sentence, I think. They didn't cover the trial itself.

The only Jewish community site that did cover all of it is FailedMessiah.com.

Bas Melech

It's the frummie attitude. If you ignore it, it doesn't exist, or it just goes away. Also, if YWN and VIN were to report on it, it acknowledges that a frum yid was tried and convicted of a heinous crime.


Wow, her statement is very eloquent. I cannot imagine the horror and pain she has endured and her bravery and strength amaze me. I agree, this girl has done a great service to the entire community.

I keep thinking that there needs to be an orthodox organization that takes on this issue. Maybe an MO organization would be best since they will get less tangled up in the mesirah issue. I know that there is Rabbi Nachum Rosenberg and some others who speak out and lead demonstrations, but there needs to be a unified, organized full time effort to root out these monsters, bring them to justice and support victims and their families against the backlash and intimidation they undoubtedly will encounter.


@ 987320/M:

As far as I know YWN posted nothing about Weberman at all, not even the guilty proclamation a month ago. Unless there was an article I'm unaware of, YWN has said nothing about it.


I find it very strange that, as of this moment while I am typing this comment, neither YWN nor Matzav.com have published any sort of report on the Weberman sentencing. Even they can not sweep a swingeing sentence of 103 years under the (communal) rug!

I find it even odder that neither those two highly respected and august sources of Jewish news have launched any sort of jeren pidyon shevuyim yet.


This girl has done a service to the entire community. She stood up for herself in the face of all the adversity and fought against a powerful, influential, highly regarded (in his community) monster. The one thing I would say- even though she said it better than I ever could- is to not forget. Realize that other innocent children are suffering in silence and going through the same pain. It's time for their to be a mass realization- sexual abuse needs to be discussed, victims need to have full support and the people who try to silence the victims should be universally vilified and nationally disgraced.

Bas Melech


He got 103 years, less than 2 years for each conviction.

Bas Melech

Before you criticize the sentence, do you know if there is mandatory sentencing for the menuval's crimes? As it was, he was sentenced 2 years for each crime. Not much if you break down the 108 years he got.

Did you ever hear the saying, "Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time."

I suppose you think Rubashkin's sentence was also politically motivated.

He deserves the sentence of a murder. He murdered a neshama. She is going to relive the abuse for the rest of her life. Maybe some of his and other victims will come forward, because of her courage and NW's punishment.


James, how does sentencing in such a way that you are absolutely certain to PO the one block voting group in your electorate constitute a political move by the judge?


Nebech, you are an embarrassment.


He weberman is a product of his community they are all guilty since they kept quiet about this and other molestations for the past 40 or so years and even now have absolutly no shame in defending him ,they are their own worst enemy not the goyim.

Robert J. Barron, Attorney-at-Law

If this guy does not go into protective custody, then he won't last long before he's shanked in the shower. I didn't practice criminal defense very long, but long enough to know that child molesters/child rapists are right down there with snitches in the inmate hierarchy; and unless they are in protective custody, some of them don't last very long.

It's hard to keep a secret in prison, so unless this guy can somehow convince people here's in there for tax evasion or money laundering, I would not be betting on his longevity.

And forget about him doing his time in some low to minimum security place, either. Type of offense, along with sentence, usually determine placement, so I'm guessing he is heading to either a max security or at least a medium security place.

And hopefully, this sends a "Loud and clear" message to that community that these monsters will not continue to prey upon their victims, and escape unharmed....but knowing that community....I'm not optimistic.

flora freida

I'm happy he'll spend the rest of his life in jail and would suggest for his supporters to keep Mr monster company in jail too. you that find worlds to deffend such a monster are at least colluding with crime. wake up! your world is falling apart.


way to go girl!!
the monster will be caged forever.


Amen ak.
Should have gotten 200 years. Judge was way too merciful.

R. Wisler

Ignorant uneducated hareidim like "nebach" and "James" are most of the problem. Sexual abuse of children will continue to be tolerated by that entire ignorant population. Look at the comments on Voz Iz Neias and weep.

Alter Kocker

A very brave girl. May she find peace and may her abuser find nothing but hell on earth. May the abuser's supporters, apologists and facilitators find their own brand of hell as they continue to victimize the victim and may they be wiped from the earth and the memories of all people.


103 years
Worse than murder?
Politically motivated

Bas Melech

And frummies don't understand why FFBs and BTs stop being frum.


Nebach, you thinking that raping and burning young girls is decent, sane behavior? I hope you never have kids. I can only imagine what horrors you'd inflict on them.

Atheodox Jew

Wow. Hard to imagine a more articulate and heartfelt statement.

ACE Rabbi

As a rabbi I think the only honorable thing for this guy to do is kill himself. The he could explain himself directly to god. I would like to hear that conversation.

Oy Vay.


I think that all the people who helped this young lady tell her story should be commended. And I think that no amount of jail time will undo the damage this rasha has inflicted on this very strong and courageous young lady.


Horray to the degenarates they had a good day in court where the judge throw the book on a guy who was acuused by a troubled girl from a troubled family

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