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January 09, 2013

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Abu Jihad Schneerson

And what is the position of Shas on conversions?

Dovid

FY - "All the ad does is attack people trying to get conversions."

That's not what it does, it attacks people who don't take the conversion process seriously and those who wish to grant quickie conversions (such as Yisrael Beteinu). Unfortunately, it stereotypes Russians in a way that many would find negative, which is not OK.

"If Shas wanted to have a real conversation about the issue, they would have to first define their standard for what makes a conversion legitimate in the first place..." etc

Do you expect them to do that in a TV ad? If so, you have little understanding of advertising. And anyway, don't you think that Shas has a position on conversions? You may not like it, but they certainly have a view.

Friar Yid

Dovid- That's not the issue raised by this ad. All the ad does is attack people trying to get conversions. If Shas wanted to have a real conversation about the issue, they would have to first define their standard for what makes a conversion legitimate in the first place, and then determine what the minimum standards are beyond which something becomes illegitimate.

For instance, how long does a conversion process need to be before it ceases to be a "quickie" and it legitimate? What litmus do you use to determine if a conversion is sincere? Are non-Orthodox conversions disqualified automatically by virtue of not being Orthodox, or can they be considered valid by using similar standards, if applied to their respective denomination?

These are real questions that I would be pleased to see happening among the powers-that-be (and laypeople) in Israel and elsewhere. Unfortunately Shas seems totally uninterested in having such a conversation.

Dovid

FY, I agree with you. Plus it's obvious that the little shnip in the ad is primarily interested in this woman because of her looks, so the fact of a quickie conversion would be unlikely to put him off.

AJS, well of course, a lot of things have changed. (Zipporah being black or white would make no difference,FYI).

But the issue is whether quickie and/or insincere conversions should be permitted for reasons of nationalism.

Friar Yid

Dovid- There is no magical transformation that happens when you convert. You may have changed religions but you are the same person, same body, same mind as you were the day before you take your plunge in the mikveh. To have the groom recoil from his bride like that goes far beyond the issue of whether conversions are too lenient-- it suggests that there is something fundamentally disgusting about non-Jews (while also casting aspersions on converts, properly converted or otherwise). It may not be race-baiting per se but it's effectively the same thing.

All in all, a truly despicable ad. I sincerely hope they are punished for it at the polls.

Abu Jihad Schneerson

Dovid,read the Torah carefully and you'll be amazed to find Jewishness was patrilinear in Moshe rabbenu's times and also afterwards.It became matrilinear only when rabbis decided to change things in the 2nd century of the Xtian era;past that,Moshe's wife Zipporah was not only a gentile but black too!I guess today's "gedolim" would put Moshe in kerem for suc an averah.After all,who's Moshe rabbenu or even HKBH to argue with rabbis?

Dovid

I think the ad is meant to suggest that one party in particular (Yisrael Beteinu, currently united with the Likud for the upcoming elesction) is in favor of creating a situation in the future where blatantly non-Jewish immigrants are able to get quickie conversions.

About this they are probably correct. (Even if the video stereotypes hot blonde Russians).

Of course, people who go by the "Nationalist" interpretation of "Who Is a Jew," rather than the religious interpretation, don't like to have this pointed out to them. For them it's more important to increase the number of "Jews" in Israel, regardless of annoying side issues such as Torah and Judaism.

SMR

Shas produced a video that includes a woman in a miniskirt?

זבה גדולה

I love it. Great Video and even greater point!

Jake

Incredibly funny add.
But you have to be in it, to really get the cultural nuances.

Maskil

It's a wonderful ad that has opened Israelis minds and the national dialogue to an issue that was burning in the subconscious. Everyone had a reaction; it brought out an expression that most people didn't know was so passionate, whether it be to discomfort with Eastern Europeans, immigrants, converts Gentiles or discomfort with the discomfort that most Israelis have. The producers of the ad knew what they were getting into, that people would either love it or hate it (or, more specifically, no one would be indifferent to it). It is also the most clever campain ad in this entire election circus.

JJJ

What about tznius?

S M L

It's like US politics a century ago - all the filters are off. Real bare-knuckle combat. The place is the size of New Jersey with the population of New York City [if that] and they've got enough parties, alliances, sects, cults and other nonsense for a country the size of the US. Absurd.

Boris

The actress speaks a wonderful Hebrew!

Isa

I thought the video was funny

One could do a like video on certain rabbis with their 'smechas'

In the engineering field there was a cartoon that went like this

"yesterday I couldn't spell ingener
now todai i are one"

Ben

ah-pee-chorus, hit the nail on the head as usual.

Sefardim have never protested against Syrian sefardi nazi like policies.

ah-pee-chorus

i guess discrimination is only wrong when its against sephardim.

Rocky

In some passed comments, I have made comparisons between the Weimar political system and Israel's. You can see the results of the November 1932 German Reichstag elections here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_federal_election,_November_1932

and information on the upcoming Israeli Knesset elections here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_legislative_election,_2013#Participating_parties

Note the large number of political parties in each case.

Both systems employ(ed) a proportional representation system and both systems never (have never) produced a majority government in their respective legislatures. In 1932, the old line parties couldn't even put together a coalition government after each of the two Reichstag elections held that year in Germany. In the end President Hindenburg asked Hitler to form a coalition government, ushering in the Third Reich.

In 2013, Israel's knesset will once again have lots of political parties represented and the religious parties will probably hold the balance of power (mean more spoils for the Haredi). More Russian Jews or their children will look for opportunities abroad. Who can blame them?

David

Yeah, anybody thinking of doing a video of exactly how HaRav HaGaon HaMeor HaGadol Leib Tropper of EJF would "handle" Marina's "conversion?" Not sure you could disseminate such a video on a site accessible to minors....

anon

so is she single? :)

Josh

Politics as usual!

Yosef ben Matitya

a horrible disgusting shame. hope they end up with 0 seats.

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