Open Movie Theaters On Shabbat, Modern Orthodox Rabbi Reportedly Says

Speaking on a panel on the role of religion in Israeli life at the 10th annual Jerusalem Conference, Rabbi Yaakov Medan, one of the co-heads of the Modern Orthodox Har Etzion yeshiva, said secular Israelis should have the chance to attend movie theaters on Shabbat. “The theaters could sell tickets in advance,” Medan said, to avoid conducting business on Shabbat. According to Medan, Jerusalem needs secular residents, and their needs must be taken into account just as religious residents needs are.

Rabbi Yaakov Medan

Open Movie Theaters On Shabbat, Modern Orthodox Rabbi Reportedly Says
Shmarya Rosenberg • FailedMessiah.com

Speaking on a panel on the role of religion in Israeli life at the 10th annual Jerusalem Conference, Rabbi Yaakov Medan, one of the co-heads of the Modern Orthodox Har Etzion yeshiva, said secular Israelis should have the chance to attend movie theaters on Shabbat, Arutz Sheva reported.

“The theaters could sell tickets in advance,” Medan said, to avoid conducting business on Shabbat. According to Medan, Jerusalem needs secular residents, and their needs must be taken into account just as religious residents needs are.

But Medan did make it clear that he was opposed to allowing most businesses to operate on Shabbat.

“Anyone who does this [opens all businesses] is forcing hundreds of thousands of Jews to work on Shabbat against their will.”

Medan added that he is so concerned with this issue that he only fills his car's gas tank at stations that are closed on Shabbat. Medan doesn’t do this to boycott the other stations. Instead, he does it to help the Shabbat-observant stations make up for income that could have been lost on Shabbat.

Elisheva Mazya of Ruach Chadasha, an organization that encourages secular Israelis to live in Jerusalem, was on the same panel as Medan.

“The religious public is completely unaware of the needs of the secular public,” she reportedly said, pointing out that the uncompromising attitude of haredim on Shabbat prohibitions and their intersection with Israeli public life was stopping secular Israelis from having anything to do with Shabbat and Judaism at all.

Comments

[ah-pee-chorus]

he sounds reasonable until you read the whole article. just another evil delusional fool who wants to impose his mythological needs onto others who happen to be rational.

[Garnel Ironheart]

Rabbi Steve Riskin said years ago that the best way to get seculars to keep Shabbos is not to force them to but to lobby for a two day weekend. After all, how reasonable is it to expect a guy who slaves at work for 6 days not to want to go out and party on the 7th?

[Worf]

Another rabbi who is completely out of touch with the world. Movie theatres are open on Shabbos and you can buy tickets online in advance.

[anti-agenda arguments]

Posted by: ah-pee-chorus | January 07, 2013 at 11:01 AM

How is he "evil", and what "mythological needs" are he trying to impose onto others?

[ah-pee-chorus]

anti-agenda arguments -

he's evil for this:

But Medan did make it clear that he was opposed to allowing most businesses to operate on Shabbat.

who the hell is he to "allow" any business to open during a day called 'shabbos' according to his religious/mythological definitions and rules.

[anti-agenda arguments]

ah-pee-chorus:

Do you think that an Orthodox Rabbi would approve of businesses being open on Shabbos? Cooperation between religious and secular Jews is necessary (as he realizes)in Israel, and he has shown willingness to do so. [although, I am suprised by his outright approval of desecration of shabbos in calling for the opening of theaters instead of "looking the other way"]

[PulpitRabbi]

@APC: In many European countries, Sunday is totally respected as a day of rest, and only theaters and eateries are open. Rabbi Medan's opinion regarding Israel is not off the map of reasonable opinion, unless you live in the US with 7 days/week 24hrs/day shopping.

Now I used to enjoy shopping for groceries between 12:00 and 3:00 AM, but you can't impose that on everyone, and in fact, for grocery employees, life might be much simpler acropss the pond. Why not continue giving most all Israelis the benefit of the Sabbath off, just like Brits, Germans, Frenchies and others get their Sunday with no strings attached (and a whole slew of Muslim countries their Friday)?

[flailed]

"Their needs must be taken into account just as religious residents needs are."
No brainer. All abooooooooard!

[seth]

This Racist has concern for secular Jews only. The Muslim and Christians merit no consideration whtsoever. But he is an open minded Racist, so that makes him progressive and OK.

[Sephardiman]

He sounds very reasonable,

[ah-pee-chorus]

ah-pee-chorus:

Do you think that an Orthodox Rabbi would approve of businesses being open on Shabbos?
Posted by: anti-agenda arguments

that question says it all. who the hell is he to approve or disapprove of what OTHER PEOPLE do. had the question been whether he would approve of halachic jews violating shabbos he could tell all who want to listen that they should neither shop nor sell on shabbos. but he is part of the IMPOSITION of halacha and the DENIAL of freedoms to people who dont share his delusion.

Cooperation between religious and secular Jews is necessary (as he realizes)in Israel, and he has shown willingness to do so

are you serious? is cooperation also needed between americans and al-qaeda? ive never once heard of a secular demanding that charedim shop on shabbos. i've never once heard a secular demand that a shul be closed down on a secular holiday. charedim are terrorists and they think that if something someone else does bothers them, they have a right to demand an end to it.

[ah-pee-chorus]

@APC: In many European countries, Sunday is totally respected as a day of rest, and only theaters and eateries are open.Posted by: PulpitRabbi |

that may be, and it has roots in christianity, and i'm against that as well. however, unlike almost all of europe, the USA and israel do not have any official state religion. furthermore, if the majority of people in those countries wish to keep it that way, that would be one thing. their reasoning might even be based on social concerns at this point, since few europeans are religious. its quite another matter when a minority of frum in israel decide to restrict the majority's rights as a direct result of their beliefs.

Why not continue giving most all Israelis the benefit of the Sabbath off, just like Brits, Germans, Frenchies and others get their Sunday with no strings attached

i'm all for any company that decides to give its employees off on saturday or any other day. what i and you should be against is a LAW which demands it on the basis of charedi judaism. when america had blue-laws, frum jews had trouble since they worked on weekdays and wouldnt shop on shabbos. sunday was their only day, and the laws unfairly restricted them.
why not extend this thinking? pig isnt so healthy and many people in europe avoid it so its ok if israel bans it on halachic grounds. who cares if seculars feel restricted? its for their own good.
youre presenting a really weak argument. just because YOU may not have a problem with this particular issue, you may have quite a problem with the next charedi demand.

[anti-agenda arguments]

Posted by: ah-pee-chorus | January 07, 2013 at 08:57 PM:

I grant your point that he shouldn't be able to stop people from doing what they want. He claims that it forces people against their will to work on shabbos. If true, it complicates the situation because he is defending the rights of those people who do want to observe shabbos.

APC: are you serious? is cooperation also needed between americans and al-qaeda? ive never once heard of a secular demanding that charedim shop on shabbos. i've never once heard a secular demand that a shul be closed down on a secular holiday. charedim are terrorists and they think that if something someone else does bothers them, they have a right to demand an end to it.

The comparison is dissimilar. Why should America cooperate with Al-queda, and if they would it would mean to destroy themselves. It is my understanding, (I'm not Israeli)that Religious Jews are a significant minority -- cooperation between the two is important. Can be a co-existence between Haredim and Secular Israeli? Probably not. But this guy is not Haredi, and it seems that he can co-exist with Secular.

[ah-pee-chorus]

He claims that it forces people against their will to work on shabbos. If true, it complicates the situation because he is defending the rights of those people who do want to observe shabbos.

since theres no slavery in israel, no one is forced to work on shabbos. if you know the job requires it, dont take the job. are you suggesting that jews in america are forced to work on shabbos since many businesses are open? puh-leaze.
we both know he isnt defending anyones rights. what he's doing is imposing halacha on non-religious.

Why should America cooperate with Al-queda, and if they would it would mean to destroy themselves

Why should israel cooperate with charedim, and if they would it would mean to destroy themselves.

all i had to do was cut and paste and the comparison is spot on. israel would be a country where only rabbanut approved food would be sold. all movie theaters closed. all bars closed. all dance clubs closed. jail for the immodestly dressed . laws against any non-charedi version of judaism. no internet access. little real education....etc..

It is my understanding, (I'm not Israeli)that Religious Jews are a significant minority -- cooperation between the two is important.

you lost me there. sentence 'B' doesnt follow from 'A'. their numbers dont change who they are. religious terrorists heell-bent on sending israel back to the dark ages.

But this guy is not Haredi, and it seems that he can co-exist with Secular.

in israel especially, there is almost no distinction between MO, chardal and charedi. MO look to charedi gedolim for advice and piskei halacha.
he CANNOT co-exist with seculars. unless by 'coexist' you mean HE decides on which issues HE will permit things like movie theaters, and which areas HE decides to impose his halacha, i.e. businesses closed on shabbos.

try this: i can coexist with charedim. I'll close down their yeshivas, ban shtreimels, kapotes, and the color black. i'll force every home to have internet and TV. but i will allow people to go to shul once a week. hows that for compromise and coexistence? think about it.

[anti-agenda arguments]

APC: since theres no slavery in israel ... what he's doing is imposing halacha on non-religious.

Your saying that he is wrong,and that observant Jews don't need to choose between shabbos observance and their job. Even so, its not surprising that he, as a Rabbi (and not legislature) is against Shabbos desecration.

APC: Why should israel cooperate with charedim ... israel would be a country where only rabbanut approved food would be sold. all movie theaters closed. all bars closed. all dance clubs closed. jail for the immodestly dressed . laws against any non-charedi version of judaism. no internet access. little real education....etc..

What you describe is not cooperation, it is a Haredi-controlled Israel. Co-existence means that although the 2 sides don't agree on everything, and they have different opinions, they can still come together and compromise so that they can co-exist. The gap between Haredi and Secular is probably too far, and they seem to be in middle of an ideological battle for (not control) but for what is the Haredi role in Israel.

in israel especially, there is almost no distinction between MO, chardal and charedi. MO look to charedi gedolim for advice and piskei halacha.
he CANNOT co-exist with seculars. unless by 'coexist' you mean HE decides on which issues HE will permit things like movie theaters, and which areas HE decides to impose his halacha, i.e. businesses closed on shabbos.

I don't think that any haredi rabbi would say that you should open movie theaters on shabbos, and I highly doubt he asked any Gadol. Perhaps he is irrelevant and you are correct that there is no real MO, but he is definitely neither Haredi, nor chardal. As for whether secular Israelis can co-exist with him, maybe they can't, and I don't think they would vote for him, but he certainly has demonstrated a certain level of tolerance and understanding towards people different then him.

[Seraphya]

I am actually not sure on which side of these debates I fall. I used to say let much more be open, but I am now really worried about the position of workers. The business groups in Australia have gotten together to lobby for no special rates for workers on holidays and weekends because those have become normal business days.

I am sure we all remember the stories of our grandparents being unable to take off on shabbat, and thanks to unions and employment laws that changed. We are now facing a change in the other direction to wage slavery below a living wage with fewer rights.

Something has to be done to keep the weekend as a day of rest for workers. It should be the exception and not the rule that workers work on the weekend, especially in a country like Israel that only has one day of weekend.

[Atheodox Jew]

Funny, I thought only "Rav Chen" paskened like that. ;-)

http://www.gojerusalem.com/discover/item_675/Rav-Chen

[PulpitRabbi]

@APC wrote: and i'm against [strict laws preventing business on SUnday --PR] as well. however, unlike almost all of europe, the USA and israel do not have any official state religion. furthermore, if the majority of people in those countries wish to keep it that way, that would be one thing.

@APC, you are out of sync with the world. Many people, many who live a totally secular life, believe taht it is a good thing for the conomy to have a sabbath, and that out of social concerns, this needs to be strictly legislated, When should a family whose two breadwinners have different corporate sabbaths have any significant family time? Our convenience in America rests on the back of poor workers.

[No_Light]

PulpitRabbi -

Brits, Germans, Frenchies and others get their Sunday with no strings attached

Since when? You're talking out of your arse. The only places closed over the weekend in the UK are government offices, and even if the phone lines are closed to the public, workers are often still there doing other work. Post offices and banks are closed on Sunday only, and have limited Saturday hours depending on location.

Shops, call centres, cinemas, pubs, vets, hairdressers, bakeries, garages, medical services etc. are ALL open on Sundays. Shops are limited to six hours of trading time, unless they are small local shops that serve a community

It was much the same last time I was in Germany. I was last in France roughly 20 years ago, but even then there were plenty of shops and services open on weekends

Europe isn't some mythical place that you can make any claim about in order to win arguments. As for religion, ha! What religion? The church is a joke here in the UK. Even deeply catholic Ireland recently told the Vatican to remove its ambassador. Although Ireland is more religious than the UK, both countries are haemorrhaging religious believers of all kinds.

The UK may have an official state religion, but they're not involved in making laws, defining rights, or controlling the population. They're a relic, a fossil, all but dead. This is a secular nation with lifestyles and practices to match, not a theocratic desert shit-hole where the God Squad rule with an iron fist.

[No_Light]

Oh, and for the record - even Christmas and Easter are now considered to be regular working days in many industries. Shops are not allowed to trade on Easter Sunday or Christmas day, but that's as far as the law extends. And again, some small community shops (that sell groceries and household goods) are allowed to trade.

My wife's place of work is open 365 days a year. My last workplace was too, I worked every weekend, bank holiday, religious holiday as if they were any other day. But that's life in a democracy.