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January 02, 2013

Leading Zionist Orthodox Rabbi Issues Hyper-Restrictive Women’s Modesty Rules

Rabbi Shlomo Aviner closeupWomen should not wear any red, orange, bright yellow, bright green, gold, silver, flesh-colored or shiny clothing. Arms must be covered to at minimum below the elbow, but sleeves should not be baggy or loose. “How much better and pleasant is it” to cover the entire arm all the way to the hand.

Rabbi Shlomo Aviner closeup
Rabbi Shlomo Aviner

Originally published at 11:20 pm 1-1-2013

Leading Zionist Orthodox Rabbi Issues Hyper-Restrictive Women’s Modesty Rules
Shmarya Rosenberg • FailedMessiah.com

“How beautiful and pleasant the modesty of a daughter of Israel is,” Rabbi Shlomo Aviner, a leading Zionist Orthodox rabbi wrote last week in a booklet, “B’Ahavah U’ve’Emunah,” “With Love and Faith,” he issued dictating the rules of modest dress for women, the Jerusalem Post reported. By covering the body, Aviner purred, the soul is honored.

He then went on to detail the specific rules he believes women must follow.

Women should not wear any red, orange, bright yellow, bright green, gold, silver, flesh-colored or shiny clothing, Aviner wrote.

Arms must be covered to at minimum below the elbow, but sleeves should not be baggy or loose.

Why?

Because arm movement can expose the area of the arm above the elbow.

But, Aviner averred, “how much better and pleasant is it” to cover the entire arm all the way to the hand.

Skirt length must be 4 inches below the knee.

Aviner also dictated stocking thickness, the type of allowable shoes and their color, along with other details.

“Clothing should cover the entire body, it should not be transparent, it should not be tight, and it should be quiet and reserved,” Aviner reportedly wrote.

Aviner, who is viewed as conservative by many of his colleagues, was publicly criticized by some of them for the publication of the booklet.

Rabbi Yehuda Gilad,  a dean of the Zionist Orthodox Maalei Gilboa Yeshiva and a prominent leader in Zionist Orthodoxy, said that Aviner’s “obsession with modesty is not modest.”

Gilad also doubted the booklet would cause women to change their current mode of dress.

In an op-ed, Rabbi Ronen Neubert, the director of the liberal leaning Zionist Orthodox Beit Hillel organization, attacked Aviner’s modesty directives as “intrusive, humiliating and immodest,” noting that it was proper for female educators to talk about modesty with their students.

Rabbis, Neubert said, should stay out of it.

Comments

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those are colors that look good on me.
g-d will have no problem.
this man might, but i'm not going to acknowledge his presence.

I'm lost. Why can't I have baggy sleeves? Does he want to see the curve of my elbow really badly? I think that this could be what this is all about.

Personally it's black and blue (double entendre intended) that turns me on. So I'm in trouble.

OK. Now we know what gets his dick to stand at its full three inches

OK. Now we know what gets his dick to stand at its full three inches
Posted by: A. Nuran | January 02, 2013 at 01:33 AM

Skirt length must be 4 inches below the knee.

Poor schmuck! That won't even make it up the skirt to the knee let alone to the hairy land of milk and honey!

Methinks that most of the men who wrote the modesty "halachos" for women over the millenia had the same issues as this rabbi does, and had the same non-business writing about what is proper and improper for women to be wearing. Seriously - do they not realize how transparent they are and how inappropriate it is for them to be involved in these details?

Probably not. After all, being that it's part of halacha for men to be examining women's soiled underwear, they figure they have a say in everything having to do with what women do with their bodies...

Tell me again how beautiful frumkeit is.

Wasn't Aviner accused of molesting a while back?

Interesting but they theese rebbes are allowed to suck a babies penis ,and they are talking about tzenias hahahaha what a joke theese bozos.

And this is coming from a Zionist Orthodox rabbi? What a disgrace. It seems the looming specter that is Haredism is dragging every Orthodox denomination with it. Horrible. How "pleasant it would be" if rabbis like this would shut the fuck up.

Another fatwa by a haredi rabbi!!! People of Israel, wake up!! In a generation or 2 these fundamentalists will approach a majority in your country. I fear for Israel's future with these people running the country.

Wasn't Aviner accused of molesting a while back?

Posted by: moki | January 02, 2013 at 05:53 AM

Indeed he was. According to Wikipedia, the accusations were published in Maariv. After further inquiry by the newspaper, they published a retraction.

form-fitting revealing clothing, revealing hot piece of ass dresses, dresses that reveal contours of the body clothing is inappropriate. Isn"t this like a bikini that belongs on the beach? Do I have to see her ass booty when she walks down the street? Do i have to watch her bust, waist and hips? Do i have to watch her overweight, gallon of ice cream ass? Sorry, I don't want to have to look at a fat chick in a form fitting butt ass revealing skirt or how much stuff she has hanging around her waist , sorry but I do understand Rabbi Aviner.

@Moshe aron Kestenbaum, Williamsburg: I doubt too many people think long beards and pais too sexually attractive but nobody tells YOU how to dress.

Moshe aron Kestenbaum, Williamsburg--Oiber chuchem this is america a person can walk in the streets anyway he pleases as long as he isnt naked i tought youre smarter then this who is forcing you to keep glued and looking at her, is someone forcing you no or are you so deep into self hynosis or nypnotized by youre rebbes whom are you kidding are you a dictator you live in america not in north korea i cant beleive you wrotes what you wrote you sound like a true satmerer shoite.

The wording sounds like Aviner was jerking off while writing it. Guess the little boy under his desk was using his teeth at the time.

As i wrote before theese holier then thou rebbes have permission by their own volition to suck a babies penis but cant tolerate a woman not dressed to thei likink what in the world whom are they trying too fool with their magelomaniacal attitude,they will only increase the haterd towards themselfs just like the muhlahs of iran

and then they go off and molest and f k and get su ked by little3 gilrs and boys. looks just like a convicted paedo i happen to know abouit. these rabbis are ALL SUSPECT.

Jancsi
When are you going to get help to get over what the shochet/mohel did to you? Every dollar spent on a good psychologist is well spent...

Isn't it pleasant that Aviner asks so nicely that you as a female surrender all to this misogynist and chauvinist cult when all the time you as a jewish female would be better served to put one between your husband's eyes pull your multitude of screaming progeny out of the brainwash institute and get them a real education and basically stop all communications with these sick twisted individuals. Imagine a life without poverty, multiple pregnancies, futures for your children, the ability to dress, think and act using your own FREE WILL instead of giving over all of yourself and your freedom to a cult which embraces ignorance.

Better than you--When are you going to get over mentioning it maybee you need a good pscycoligist you ,you sicko who mentioned it this time go and get youreself rat poisin .

Apologies to: Sting & Police — Roxanne:

Rochel, you don't have to put on that red sight
Those days are over
You don't have to cover your body so bright
Rochel, you don't have to wear that dress tonight
Listen to the rabbi
He don't care if it makes sense, just if it's "Right"

Refrain:
Rochel, you don't have to put on the red sight, etc.

I loved you since I knew ya
I want a shidduch, too, yeah
I have to tell you just how I feel
I won't share you with a Shabbos Goy
The rabbi's mind is made up
So put away your make up
Told you once I won't tell you again it's the chumra today

Refrain

YL, short and brilliant!

By the way, I've been unable to find anything in Aviner's statement about prohibiting the wearing of sado-maso headdress equipment in public, or edible panties in dull colors.

And what about vagina piercings?

Sheesh. He's not commenting at all on the interesting stuff...

YL - good one.

Again I ask the more learned, where in Torah or Talmud does it indicate which colors are modest and which make you a kurva? Or perhaps Reb Aviner was in direct communication with the burning bush who taught him that the longer wavelengths (the ROYG)of the spectrum are immodest and the shorter wavelengths (the BV) aren't? Also, since precious metals have been important to Jewish commerce for centuries, how come gold & silver are now immodest? I guess only men can work in this industry?

Further study is required. For example, if red is immodest, what about infrared? And if so, what about longer wavelengths, such as radio waves? That might mean that women can no longer listen to the radio?

And if violet is ok, then certainly ultraviolet and microwaves are also ok, I presume, so women can continue their work in the kitchen, as God intended?

Thanks, Sarek, Eli.

now THIS is a wonderful jewish school...normal...not crazy
Dear --- Students,

Happy New Year and welcome back to --------!

I trust you had a restful break and are ready to start the new year with a great deal of vigor!

As I wrote earlier, I will be greeting you in the morning and verifying that you are dressed appropriately for classes.

I don’t have a lot of options for you if you are not, so expect to be sent back to your houses or to have to call home if you are day student AND you are NOT in compliance with our dress code.

Remember: Skirts no more than 3 inches above knee. Skintight clothing (leggings, etc.) must be covered by a skirt! No exposed shoulders, cleavage, rear ends, midriffs, torn clothing, etc.

Let’s make this easy for all of us. You know how to dress and you know when you are not complying with our ------ values.

Best wishes for a happy, healthy, and successful New Year!

OK, ok, say what you want, but you need to respect the fact that this man cared enough to spend hours hiding in the dressing room of a Victoria's Secret in Tel Aviv in order to conduct all the necessary research.

Don't you just love it when sexual predators start spouting off their crap? http://theawarenesscenter.blogspot.com/2002/11/case-of-rabbi-shlomo-aviner.html


Interesting but they theese rebbes are allowed to suck a babies penis ,and they are talking about tzenias hahahaha what a joke theese bozos.

Posted by: jancsibacsi | January

Jancsibacsi, I love you. No, not *that* way. Don't worry. :-)

Jancsi
You are a miserable creep. You despise everything religious. YOU keep mentioning your abuse as a child. I believe that THAT is what drives your every post. It is only fair that I offer you to get helped...

Also women should not wear shoes. Here is proof:

http://rebeljew.blogspot.com/2008/12/bans-from-rav.html

ah...
best leave JANCSI alone.
he's a solid citizen here on FM

Better than you-You are right that what keeps me hating them i am shomer shabbas and more of a chusid then you will ever be you have no idea who i am youre chassidism is nothing more then a violent cult i know it first hand the animalistic behaviour of youre holier then thou imbaciles you think i will reveal myself to you and go for youre help zay nishk kain nar dont kid youreself.

Better than you-Just a hint of who i am a weberman is an aunt to my mother so yousee i am from a chassidishe family.

Indeed he was. According to Wikipedia, the accusations were published in Maariv. After further inquiry by the newspaper, they published a retraction.

Posted by: DBSesq | January 02, 2013 at 07:50 AM


not his fault...if the women were dressed modestly like he asking, it never would have happened. Couldn't possibly be his fault. (obviously joking for all you Vos iz nieas folk out there).

jancsi
1) I never said that you aren't shomer shabbos.
2) Your garbled rants are a sign of your past...
3) Don't reveal yourself to me; go for help!
4) I share your opinion regarding the Hasidic sect you're referring to...

Aviner is aping the Satmar who are famous for their strict guidelines for stocking-thickness and color schemes.
There's a YouTube video in which a young American Oleh and BT describes how Shlomo Aviner seriously beat up a young boy of maybe 14 because he refused Aviner's order to leave the human barricade of settlers as the IDF was about to expel them.
Apparently, the powers that be convinced Aviner to ride into the settlement, sitting atop the hood of an army Jeep, and shout through a megaphone that all settlers must leave immediately. When he questioned the boy, the young man politely answered, "I have my own Rav and he said we cannot leave freely". Upon hearing this, Aviner thrashed him and (supposedly) almost tore off the boy's ear.

Go to YouTube and type in "testimony on shlomo aviner"

url:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D91xkM0YJM

Jancsi
You are a miserable creep. You despise everything religious. YOU keep mentioning your abuse as a child. I believe that THAT is what drives your every post. It is only fair that I offer you to get helped...

Posted by: Better than you | January 02, 2013 at 02:01 PM

You really are clueless; it's reflected even in your screen name.

It would be best if you just went away.

I read Aviner's remarks on modesty and though: "You and which army are going to enforce them? Do you have a school? An office full of female employees etc...?"

Sure his ideas are ugly. Sure conservative does not mean frumpy, but I don't think he has power over any one but his fan club or maybe the women who attend his synagogue, and even there he has to contend with a board of directors or trustees, though maybe synagogues work differently in Israel.

Aviner was repeatedly accused of "moral lapses", there's a well documented booklet detailing them.

But he gets a pass because he's an operative for the Jewish Dept. Of the Shin Bet.

Now he's been on a puritan modesty spree for years.

Jeff
You to can use some help.

Jeff
You too can use some help; go get it.

Why are you here? why do you frummies troll this blog? I don't troll Haredi or evangelical blogs. You frummies like to tell me how deluded and hateful I am, but I stay in a neighborhood with like-minded people; I don't go to the neighborhoods of others to tell them how wrong they are, or to threaten them with postmortem consequences, etc.

The answer, usually, is that you're terrified Shmarya may be correct. By coming here and denigrating him and his supporters, you're attempting to invalidate his claims, to convince yourselves that the belief system upon which you've staked your lives and afterlives is intact and unassailable.

If you really thought he was wrong, you'd simply ignore him.

Jeff:
מדשתקי רבנן שמע מינה דניחא להו
If I ignore him, I may as well be supporting his cause.

This blog was created with the sole intention to defame and denigrate the entire Haredi movement. Its author is an old angry and miserable creep. While some of the things he says may be true, his motives are far from pure... Same goes for many of you fans. Go take care of your own problems and stop trying to be the world's guardians.

You're ridiculous, you have no idea of what you're talking about and you people don't own Judaism, no matter how desperately you want to believe you do.

You rationalizations are nonsense. You're merely terrified he's correct, and you're trying to bolster your own flagging faith by invalidating him.

No one wants you here. Go away.

Aviner is not talking to his public but is signalling to the haredi public.

Anyway all this business of modesty -- sung so loudly in the public sphere -- is self-contradictory and uninteresting. It has nothing to do with what Yiddishkeit is about.

(or ought to be about...)

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