« Haredi Yeshiva Student Busted Smuggling iPhones | Main | Video: Deeply Offensive And Bigoted Shas Campaign Ad Draws Widespread Criticism »

January 09, 2013

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Darth Zeidah

Now, please try to control your temper, dh - especially and particularly on a public web site. Such tantrums neither endear you to your readers, nor do they boost your credibility.

First you have a spat over a contentious e-mail, then you tell a person who is clearly nisht inter fun unzerer but who came to this web site with the best of intentions that he is stupid (a really scintillating comment, that).

You may not have noticed it, dh, but George quit in disgust at 7:06 PM.

dh

I was speaking to George, not you. Full of yourself much? It was stupid of him to say that crap about his dad forgiving us.

Darth Zeidah

"George, now that's folies de stupidité.


G-d, forgive George-it. They should have stopped and asked directions.

Posted by: dh | January 10, 2013 at 07:36 PM

Do keep up, dh. I am Darth Zeidah, and not George.

Where was your "assistant" to "sort through" for you?

dh

George, now that's folies de stupidité.


G-d, forgive George-it. They should have stopped and asked directions.

Darth Zeidah

"Sorry Jeff, but that email address didn't even have my name. Logistically it is often necessary for me to have an assistant sort through and forward to me certain items, particularly when things are in the planning stages."

A clear case of folies de grandeur if ever I saw one.

George

Father, forgive them ...

dh

Sorry Jeff, but that email address didn't even have my name. Logistically it is often necessary for me to have an assistant sort through and forward to me certain items, particularly when things are in the planning stages.

It seems as though you may think lack of propriety should be claimed only by commenters other than Jeff. Could this be true?

Do you, Jeff, live, breath and get up and go to work in the morning? I hope that you will again someday. Let me know then if you remain dumbfounded.

No, Jeff, not everyone commenting on this blog is an imbecile. That's just your mindset. You could be missing much that you would enjoy. You could even learn some stuff from imbeciles.

You also presuppose that Shmarya has not already gone mad.

Jeff

Not to beat a dead horse, but I cannot get my mind around your last comment. It is utterly inconceivable to me that a human being who lives, breathes and gets up and goes to work in the morning could make a statement like that. I'm completely dumfounded.

Jeff

Are you kidding me? ANY email between two people is private. I mean, I'm smacking myself in the head as I'm reading what you just wrote.

You really don't get it. Your behavior was completely inappropriate. Frankly, Shamrya should have banned you for it.

And speaking of Shmarya, I don't know how he reads this drivel day after day without going mad. Apart from about half a dozen of you, I can't abide anyone here on either side of the fence.

Is EVERYONE on this blog a goddamn imbecile?

dh

"dh posts the contents of a private email, then tries to behave as though it never occurred" Jeff

Jeff, the email you sent to me wasn't private. You may, or may not have assumed that.

Further, if I posted it in this additional forum where you chose not to carry on our conversation, then how can I behave as though it never occurred?

dh

" No wonder there is still anti-Semitism in the world."

Nah, Darth. The reason there is anti-semitism in the world is because of the most dangerous kind, in the form of George.

His deep clawing anti-semitism is passive. It's the kind that is comfortable entering this blog, published by this man, for his audience.

George is so fundamentally bereft of human kindness and understanding as to spew the insulting defecation that he dropped on us here - that's the antisemitism we have to watch out for. That's what needs to be exposed. The other kind we can clearly see. We know what that looks like.

But George is the beast. He's the gorilla in this war.

Jeff

Posted by: Darth Zeidah | January 10, 2013 at 04:20 PM

You completely misunderstood me. I mean, the level at which you misunderstood me is monumental. I am utterly stupefied. I am at a loss to explain how you could read what I typed, and come away with what you apparently did. This is cluelessness on the level of some of the frum trolls.

It's come to a point at which I can't stomach my allies on this blog any more than I can the people to whom I'm opposed. First, dh posts the contents of a private email, then tries to behave as though it never occurred - and now this.

I have no idea of what is going on here any longer. The frum trolls appear to have brought down everyone's IQ.

dh

Darth, he and the "it" suffocate souls by proclaiming here, in total denigration of his audience, that the "it" created us and therefore he will pray for us. Horseshit. That's praying about us but not for us, or for me anyway.

"All in all, dh, when it came to HaShem handing out communication skills and diplomacy clearly you must have been engaged elsewhere." Yes true, 100%, I was. I was working on my paucity. Unlike George, the "it."

Darth Zeidah

Jeff do you really, in your heart of hearts, consider www.failedmessiah.typepad.com to be "a Haredi blog"?

I ask because - if it is - the behavior of many of the commentators in their יחס towards Shmarya in particular and towards other commentators in general is more reminiscent of a rowdy four-ale bar in Dublin on a Saturday night than a heilige "Haredi blog".

For once, just this once, you had a גר בשעריך and all you could do was to be downright rude, boorish and coarse. No wonder there is still anti-Semitism in the world.

George, on the other hand, will probably "turn the other cheek" as prescribed by his God - but in his heart of hearts he would be perfectly entitled to think "fuck the Jews".

And given the reception so-called - but self-proclaimed - "Haredi Jews" have given him here who could blame him?

Not me. But you should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself.

Jeff

If the guy wants to sign his messages his way then who are we to object?

I don't much care, but it has to do with being a guest in someone else's home. It's a matter of politeness.

I wouldn't go to a Christian blog and attempt to rub their noses in the fact that I don't believe Jesus was the Messiah. By the same token, I wouldn't go to a Haredi blog and start belaboring the fact that I don't "hold by" Torah M'Sinai (if there were any Haredi blogs, which there aren't, as everyone knows the Internet is assur).

Darth Zeidah

Now, now, dh: do try to rise above the lowest common denominator of fortuitous insults that seem to pervade the readers' comments on this web site. All it does is to highlight the paucity of your intellect.

Instead, show just a little דרך ארץ to another human being, a representative of another faith, whose very last consideration is to steal your Jewish soul, but rather to try to enter into some sort of dialog with you (and others).

All in all, dh, when it came to HaShem handing out communication skills and diplomacy clearly you must have been engaged elsewhere.

And before you, or any other Jewish zealot, mentions it no I am not George's keeper.

dh

Oh wait, I rudely forgot to sign off:

Yours in Jesus was not a christ,

dh

Darth Zeidah

CORRECTION

The second sentence of my last message should read "There does appear to be a lot of self-doubt, uncertainty and a lack of self-confidence here".

Darth Zeidah

If the guy wants to sign his messages his way then who are we to object? He clearly means no offense and I for one could not detect any malice in his words.

There does appear to be a lot of self-doubt, uncertainty and self-confidence here.

dh

George, no, you didn't answer my questions. And btw I am not one of "its" creations.

Darth,
Question 1: No. George is in no way showing caring and concern for me. Perhaps you. Not me.
Question 2: Absolutely.

Jeff

George, a friendly tip. This:

Yours always in Christ Jesus

is a little inappropriate on a Jewish site, and won't endear you to the regulars here.

Darth Zeidah

Please do not determine my welfare or pray for me.

Posted by: dh | January 10, 2013 at 01:10 PM

That is rude, clumsy and completely uncalled for, dh.

Are you really so scared of someone from another faith showing care and concern for you? Perhaps you think that your tyra yiddishe neshumeh will somehow be tainted by George's prayers?

If the answer to either or both of those questions is "yes" then boy, oh boy, are you unsure of yourself!

George

Dear dh

Indeed I and the God I serve are most definitely "for real" as you put it - even for you.

You have clumsily tried to shift the focus of my response to Yochanan on "the (physical) focus" of the various religions he mentioned to suit your own ends. Nevertheless, the Holy Trinity of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit remains concerned for the souls and the welfare of each of Its creations.

It follows, therefore, that the Church does not pray exclusively for the Jews - or the Hindus, or the Christians. The church is both catholic - with a small "c" - and universal. We pray for the welfare of all mankind, as I sincerely hope is the case in every synagogue. After all, we do worship the same God, but in different ways and using different words.

Does that answer your questions dh?

Yours always in Christ Jesus

George

dh

George, are you for real?

If xtians believe that G-d and G-d's alleged offspring:
-- "are always in the hearts and minds of each and every believer," and
-- at each and every service the Church of England (which I guess means each and every individual therein, en masse, even with no "official" focus) prays for the "welfare" of all believers in G-d, and
--- that includes each and every Jew who has "belief"

then, do you pray for the welfare of Jews
1) that our belief "gradation" will decline to include the belief in your G-d/kid scenario?
2) that we remain Jewish, i.e. pre G-d/kid fork in the road?

Finally, why do you not pray for anyone that doesn't believe in G-d, including Jews? What is that, an "official" non-focus?

Please do not determine my welfare or pray for me.

George

Every religion needs its focal point, or sacred space. ... the Anglican/Episcopalians have Canterbury ...

I am a priest ordained in the Holy orders of the Church of England. As such I find Yochanan Lavie's assertion to be totally fallacious, unfortunately.

Unlike some other religions, Christians believe that God and His Son, Jesus, are always in the hearts and minds of each and every believer. This makes an "official" focus totally unnecessary.

The Church of England prays at each of its services for the welfare of all believers in God. This includes, of course, Jews of all denominations and gradations of belief. You, Yochanan Lavie, will be in my prayers later this evening when I say Vespers.

Yours in Christ Jesus,

George

Friar Yid

Garnel- The most obvious point here is that the wall is not an Orthodox synagogue.

The most frustrating part about this is when R. Rabinovitch tries to present himself as a well-meaning and much put-upon moderator, instead of what he actually is, a partisan with his own agenda who happens to be in charge.

I for one question why "Kotel rabbi" should even be a position. Why not run it by committee, with proportionate representation given to each social stream? The Haredim are about 10% of the Jewish population so they could get one representative. Hilonim are about 50%, so they could get five seats, and then Dati Leumi, Masorti, and so on. Alternately, you could put major kotel issues to a referendum vote. Or at the very least, make the position an electable office so there was some competition and turn-over built into it, instead of the government appointing them for life.

What stinks here is that the politicians don't care about this issue except to use it as a political football, and average Israelis have many other things on their plate, so in the meantime the status quo can continue into perpetuity. When people do challenge the status quo (or R. Rabinovitch), they are shouted down as wackos and malcontents. Regardless of people's different positions on the Women of the Wall or the politics of prayer, surely we can agree that there are better ways to run one of the holiest sites in Judaism.

Yochanan Lavie

I agree with Dave. Every religion needs its focal point, or sacred space. The Muslims have the Ka'aba in Mecca, the Catholics the Vatican, the Anglican/Episcopalians have Canterbury, Hindus and Buddhists have many important shrines, etc. It only becomes idolatry when you pray to the structure instead of simply being inspired by the structure. I would like a Temple w/o animal sacrifices, like the Rambam envisions, as a great synagogue and shrine for the Jewish people. However, it is impossible to do that now, so I'll settle on the Kotel, even though davening there is like talking to a wall.

Joe

What in the world are you people talking abut?
The western wall tunnel tours are co-Ed , (under the WWHF)
The western wall plaza has done major renovations over the last few years, does anyone remember what Wilson's arch used to look like? What the restrooms used to look like? Has anyone seen the generations center ( co ed as well)which won an international "thea" prize for best audio/ visual exhibit(Guess what? They were done by secularists who were hired by the Western Wall Foundation)
It is unreasonable to think woman will be allowed to hold prayer groups at the Kotel since the Kotel has been a synagogue it has always used the orthodox tradition, the compromise was reached a few years back , which resulted in robinsons arch.......so please tell me who is being unreasonable

Dov

The wall represents and helps demark the place of holiness.
--------------------------

If G-d created the earth, the entire earth is holy...not just some temple wall made by men's hands.

Dave

Garnel,
I am right of Conservative and left of Orthodox, but I definitely pray for the restoration of the Temple, or the 3rd Temple. I am not sure I am not the only non-Orthodox Jew who prays for the restoration of the Temple.

Penny

Could someone please explain to me how bowing and praying to stones (built by a sick motherf*cker named Herod) is NOT idolatry?

Posted by: danny | January 09, 2013 at 01:58 PM

The stones in and of itself have no powers. They did not create man or the universe and play no role in the world to come. The wall represents and helps demark the place of holiness.

Don't get too hung up on how a ceremony is performed. Like standing up and placing ones hand over the heart when a piece of fabric imprinted with the stars and stripes of our country coupled with an individual singing the Star Spangled Banner. There is only one god recognized in the US and that is "The Almighty Dollar"; "The Holy buck". This is clearly proclaimed in countless documents known as dollar bills where it states "In God We Trust". What people will do to get their hands on this holy piece of paper is mind boggling!

Office of the Chief Rabbi

Nice YL, Sarek.

Should turn the Plaza and Kotel over to the National Parks Department

danny

Could someone please explain to me how bowing and praying to stones (built by a sick motherf*cker named Herod) is NOT idolatry?

Yochanan Lavie

Sarek: Thanks. I did a parody of that song before. I try not to do the same song twice.

Sarek

Good one YL. I took the easy way out.


("Another Brick In the Wall, Part II", Pink Floyd
Yes I know he's anti-Israel)

We don’t need no secular education
We love our Rabbi’s thought control
We learn our Torah in the classroom
Society, leave our kids alone
Hey society, leave our kids alone
We insist we run the entire Western Wall.
We insist on running the entire Western Wall.

We don’t need no secular education
We love our Rabbi’s thought control
We learn our Torah in the classroom
Society, leave our kids alone
Hey society, leave our kids alone
We insist we run the entire Western Wall.
We insist on running the entire Western Wall.


Wrong, women, do it again.
If you don’t read Torah our way, you can’t do anything.
How can you do anything if you don’t read Torah our way?
You! Yes, you at the Kotel, stand still lady!

Yochanan Lavie

Apologies to: Michael Jackson — Off The Wall:

With your tallis on your shoulder
Gotta stand up when the torah comes around
If you can't hang with the menfolk
Then there ain't no room for you this part of town
'Cause we're the frummie people night and day
Livin' crazy that's the toyreh way

Chorus:
So tonight gotta leave that siddur upon the shelf
And just pray by yourself
Nu, let the madness of the rabbis get to you
Davening ain't so bad at all
If you pray it off the Wall
Davening ain't so bad at all (liturgy off the Wall)
Liturgy off the Wall (liturgy off the Wall)

You can shout out all you want to
'Cause there ain't no sin in Karlin-Stolin's crowd
[Hasidim who shout during prayer]
If the women wanna join in
Then it's Kol Isha and that will bring a frown
'Cause we're the frummie people night and day
Livin' crazy that's the toyreh way

Chorus

Do what they tell you to
There are many rules it's not up to you (many rules & it's not up to you)
It's time to give up your life
And learn on right through the night (all right)

[To women:]
Gotta hide your bag o'tefillin
Gotta let that shul lose faith inside your soul
Want to pray with great devotion
Better do it now before you're getting stoned
'Cause we're the frummie people night and day
Livin' crazy that's the toyreh way

Chorus 2x.

Sarek

Why should anything from those who run the plaza make any sense. They say the Wall is just a wall, it's not holy. But they also treat it as if it is the Temple itself.
Then they push the women down to the far end of the Wall and say, "hey, this is just as good, why complain?" And also say, "it's my way or the highway. We'll run it in any discriminatory way we want to."

ruthie

a jew is a jew is a jew...
i fear the secular and pluralistic among us
may be acting more jewish than the hasidim.
the hasidim have to realize THEY are NOT g-d.

Garnel Ironheart

This is funny.
The only reason the Kotel has any sanctity is because it was the wall of the Temple behind it. The Temple itself was meant for worship of God according to strict rules.
So secularists would have wanted nothing to do with the Temple. But they want the Wall!
The Reformers would have rejected all the rituals in the Temple and probably been horrified by animal sacrifice. But they want the Wall!

dd

if the law does not pass or if the country does not do anything about the issues .

i'll advice secular ppl who come to the kotel to carry a gun ready to use if any haredi approach them and shoot them in the leg . that way, they won't be able to walk to normal, decent, honest secular ppl to harass them .

The comments to this entry are closed.

Failed messiah was established and run in 2004 by Mr. Shmarya (Scott)Rosenberg. The site was acquired by Diversified Holdings, Feb 2016.
.
We thank Mr. Rosenberg for his efforts on behalf of the Jewish Community

.

Comment Rules

  1. No anonymous comments.
  2. Use only one name or alias and stick with that.
  3. Do not use anyone else's name or alias.
  4. Do not sockpuppet.
  5. Try to argue using facts and logic.
  6. Do not lie.
  7. No name-calling, please.
  8. Do not post entire articles or long article excerpts.
***Violation of these rules may lead to the violator's comments being edited or his future comments being banned.***

Search this site with Google:

6a00d83451b71f69e201b8d1656462970c-250wi

FailedMessiah.com in the Media