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January 07, 2013

Breaking! Another NYC Baby Gets Herpes From Dangerous Haredi Circumcision Ritual

Metzitzah b'peh Chabad closeupThe New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene has sent out an alert to medical providers warning them that another baby now has Herpes Simplex Virus 1 that was transmitted to the baby through metzitzah b'peh, the direct mouth-to-bleeding-penis sucking done briefly by haredi mohels after cutting off the foreskin.

Metzitzah b'peh Chabad closeup

January 7, 2013


Direct oral suction during ritual Jewish circumcision (metzitzah b’peh) has been documented to transmit herpes simplex virus (HSV) type 1 to newborn males (1-4). In December 2012, the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene (DOHMH) received a report of a new case of HSV-1 infection in a newborn male infant attributable to direct oral suction.


In total, 12 laboratory-confirmed cases of HSV-infection attributable to direct oral suction have now been reported to DOHMH from 2000 – 2012. Two of these infants died, and two others suffered brain damage (4). In the most recent case, the location of herpes lesions (on the penis), viral type (HSV type 1, which is commonly found in the mouth of adults), and timing of infection (10 days after circumcision) are consistent with transmission during direct contact between the mouth of the ritual circumciser (mohel) and the newly circumcised infant penis. When evaluating an ill infant boy in the weeks following circumcision, providers should inquire whether direct oral suction was performed during circumcision and consider infection with HSV or other oral pathogens. Consult with a pediatric infectious disease specialist for guidance regarding the diagnosis and management of an infant with suspected herpes infection; also, see reference #5 under “References and resources” at the end of this alert.…

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the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene (DOHMH) received a report of a new case of HSV-1 infection in a newborn male infant attributable to direct oral suction.

The key word here is "attributable".

Lets see how this plays out.

The key word here is "attributable".

Lets see how this plays out.

Posted by: Lubavitchers are Christians | January 07, 2013 at 03:21 PM

Please.

All other transmission sources ruled out, lesions on baby's penis.

There's nothing to wait for. Your rabbis and Chabad's rabbis are killing babies and maiming babies with their stupidity, and it has to stop now – and I think it will.

Unless a mohel sucks on your penis, you aren't a real Jew.

After all, penis sucking is in the Torah.

It's not?

Oh.

Next time.

FM Fan--You forgot to say that it has to be sucked by a hassidishe moel or else youre not the real deal.


Your rabbis and Chabad's rabbis


Posted by: Shmarya | January 07, 2013 at 03:32 PM


Shmarya: You and I have the same rabbis. I am not religious. So quit that angle.

Let's discuss the issues. Try not to get personal, even if you don't agree with my opinion.

Again, I pointed out the word "attributable" in the DOH report. Its an important word, and I'm sure the haredim will contest it.

If you know something that is not contained in the report, great! No reason to get personal.

Yayayay! Orgasm time again in the Rosenberg basement!!!!!!

This puts the issue right back into the limelight. I feel horrible for the poor baby who has this now. Hopefully this will be the straw that breaks the camels back and they won't be able to transmit herpes to babies anymore. What sickens me is that rather than realizing what they've done to their innocent children they care more about defending the rite of sucking baby dick than about defending the children of their community from sexual abuse, as evidenced by the Agudah convention.

Posted by: Lubavitchers are Christians | January 07, 2013 at 03:47 PM

It's very simple.

You can't do a double blind study because you'll kill babies doing it.

You can't usually get an exact DNA match between the mohel's HSV-1 virus and the baby's because the test can only be done when lesions are active, there's almost no way of predicting when that will be, and the law does not allow the DOHMH to detain a mohel indefinitely so he's there to be tested when the time is right. On top pf that, the haredi rabbis, parents and mohels aren't cooperating with the DOHMH anyway, making testing almost impossible.

Before DNA testing existed, what doctors did was what the DOHMH did – eliminate other possible sources of transmission and then "attribute" the transmission to MBP.

But you're not talking about a mere guess here.

You're talking about a certainty rate in excess of 90%.

MBP kills babies and it maims babies and it seriously sickens babies.

Those are facts – peer reviewed, accepted, scientific facts.

So why doesn't the NYC dep't of heath ban the practice? The answer is they are fearful of the political power of the Hasids and their apologists screaming anti semitism or nazis. Ban the practice, arrest anyone who violates the law, including the parents but no chance of that happening. No one has the balls to go against them. So they lose a few babies, there plenty more to come.

Haredi society is a manifestation of degenerative Talmudic Barbarism-all other words are redundant. Only degenerates and worshipers of Satan can see fulfilling God's will is soaking infant penis by an adult.

The mohel should be prosecuted for endangering the life of an infant as evidenced by the fact he had herpes that testing to assure being free of infectious disease before performing the 'ceremony' would detect. The parents should be ordered to identify him and imprisoned for contempt of court if they fail to do so. They could be released upon doing so.

Is the baby in critical condition? Can someone post the baby's name so we may say tehilim for his refuah?

By this time it is obvious to anyone with an ounce of brain that in the hassidishe world you always sacrifice the one who is helpless and cannot defend itself very similar to the hellpless child who is being molested the weak ones are sacrificed for the glory of the stronger ones, and why not the goyim dont care if you kill youre own why should they.

Yurtur-you can go to enjoy yourself with a hand, it will help you to calm down. Even if you sencirly beleive that it's forbiden, in your case it's pikuah nefesh

Leah, you cannot reveal a patient's name without the parents' permission. HIPPA Law.

And why do you need the baby's name to say tehillim? Wouldn't God know who the intended recipient of your prayers is? You don't think God is smart enough?
Your faith in God is obviously not that strong.
What if there is another person in the world with that exact same name? I'm sure there is. Would God send blessing to the wrong person?

Does anybody know how many haredi girls have gotten HSV? If only the boys get sick, then it's logical to assume that the cause is something that applies only to males.

WSC, good point but then this is the same god whom the Haredim easily fool on Shabbat with an eruv... They believe they worship a dimwit.

Back to the penis sucking ritual: We know the rabbis will insist to the end that it should be allowed to continue. How many babies will die or be maimed before they realize the proposed informed disclosure forms actually help the mohel-perps?

Another victim of an outdated, superstitious ritual. Not to mention barbaric. Keep living in the dark ages fools, and you will definitely be obliged to repeat your history.

Well, what else to expect from a law that was not given by any God, but invented by a guy who talked to a burning bush and thought was talking to God.

Yes, when you hear voices talking to you ordering you to do things, and especially when you claim a burning bush is doing the talking claiming to be God, it is called schizophrenia.

End MBP now. How many baby boys have to die or became ill before this crackpot ritual is stamped out?

The solution is actually trivial. The Halacha never states that the metzitza must be done by the same person who performs the bris milah. So the simple solution is to have the metzitza done by someone who can not possibly have herpes. It so happens that there has never been a documented case of herpes within the worldwide population of monkeys, baboons, and orangatans, all of which can be readily trained to suck a bloody baby dick. Problem solved. All orthodox circumcisions will henceforth be performed by a partnership of mohel and monkey. Only possible issue is by a hassidishe bris - telling which one is which..

The monkey is the one with better manners..

Can't be from that...they need to check their mezuzahs lol.

And why do you need the baby's name to say tehillim? WSC @ 5:35

That part is for us. So we will feel extra special and pious and so we will be viewed as such. And just in case...

Hopefully the baby will have a quick refuah.

The way to honour tradition isn't by posting angry narishkite, it's by emphasizing reasoned responses. We can rely on the important minority view that MBP in this day and age is not required, when many Mohelim would not hold the muster of kosher witnesses.

As noted, the word "attributable" is not solid medical or legal definite evidence. Innumerable people were put to death becasue a murder was "attributable" to them, only later proven innocent by DNA and other real evidence. By the way, how many children have died attributable to any other infections. This metzitza by peh seems to be the absolute lowest number of death by infection. So low, it is actually off the charts. This whole campaign is pure unadulterated hot air.

WSC, you should live a long healthy life, but like me, I'm sure you'd be happy to know that people were saying mishabrachs and tehillim with your in accordance with our customs should you G-d forbid ever need it. Aside from that your question is infantile. You could ask that question about 100's of jewish religious practices or those of other religions for that matter. So why do you feel compelled to cyber-bully a sincere person who just wants to say a prayer for the baby.

btw I knew her comment would evoke negative responses. I mean after all it was jewish ritual that got this baby sick, so how dare someone offer another jewish ritual to help. I get that, but, this person is likely a kind sincere person and doesn't like deserve to get attacked just because your pissed off.

Suri Taub--ARE YOU THAT EVIL OR RETARDET THAT ONE DEATH IS NOT TO MANY FOR YOU,YOURE THE LOWEST SCUM OF THE EARTH THAT BREATHES.

That being said commentators like Suri Taub deserve some wrath. Suri, do you realize how absurd and idiotic your comment is. You state "By the way, how many children have died attributable to any other infections." Those other infections aren't attributable to an avoidable, medically unnecessary procedure. Do you understand the difference!!! You don't compare purposefully putting a baby in harms way to other instances where it done accidentally or unavoidably. I am sick and tired of people making this stupid idiotic argument. I'm sure Suri will not get this the way I explained it, so can someone explain it better to her.

And Suri, when you believe your Rebbe's blessing will heal you or some other Jewish religious belief do you ask for "solid" scientific proof or do you believe that since the bracha is attributable to so many cases it must be true?! Now that babies are getting sick and dieing you want "solid" scientific proof! Think about that for a few hours and come back with a rational comment.

Sadly, we still haven't passed the Agudah and Satmar threshold of dead babies.

Question is how many infected and dead babies it'll take for the City of NY to ban this barbaric practice and start prosecuting mohels who are infecting babies.

Because, it seems that regardless of the number of deaths Agudath Israel's Moetzes and Satmar's Rebbes will not back down.

Time for the government to step in.

ca, save it for someone who cares. studies have indicated that people actually get worse when they know they are being prayed for.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html?pagewanted=all
instead of wasting energy, it would be better to ensure this child actually has access to responsible medical care and is removed from superstitious, ignorant fools..
15 years ago when my oldest had his bris, no one was aware of the risk or even paid attention to whether MBP was performed. Given what we know today, it is reckless endangerment at least.

Well Eli, I didn't direct the comment to you and that wasn't the point of the comment, so why don't mind your own business and shut your condescending little mouth or how about I come over and shut it for you.

Yochanan, a good song parody here might be "Another One Bites The Dust." But this whole subject of newborn babies dying and getting lifelong illnesses and getting brain damaged for life by something that is preventable and non-halachic is too sad and serious to joke about. (But it would be a good song to use for this, if it weren't so sad.)

And why do you need the baby's name to say tehillim? Wouldn't God know who the intended recipient of your prayers is? You don't think God is smart enough?
Your faith in God is obviously not that strong.
What if there is another person in the world with that exact same name? I'm sure there is. Would God send blessing to the wrong person?

Posted by: WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar | January 07, 2013 at 05:39 PM
-----------------------------------

WSC: What's the real reason you are asking these questions? No offense intended: I'm just curious. I mean, why are you giving her such a hard time, maybe she really just
wants to say tehillim?

How about siccing the child-protection people on the parents for allowing this to be done? They're the ones ultimately responsible for the child's exposure, which was unnecessary for the purpose of accomplishing a circumcision.

This is what happens when the baby's mother didn't dress tzniusdikly enough!

Posted by: Chita Chumba | January 07, 2013 at 07:35 PM

there's no such thing as someone who cannot possibly have herpes. Doctors estimate that the rates of infection are over 50% of adults in NYC. You can have oral herpes without symptoms and not know it.

The Yated keeps insisting that their "medical experts" and brilliant attorneys decimate the arguments of the overwhelming majority of real infectious disease specialists who insist that MBP is dangerous. The genius comment which proves their point? "The emperor has no clothes". Well, that ends the discussion, now doesn't it?

When haredim shout, "There's no proof!", it's hard to know if they are defending MBP or Nechemya Weberman.

http://www.yated.com/bris-milah-lawsuit-making-the-mohel-the-city-39-s-stooge.7-819-0.html

If the Charedim can't get their own act in order you can be assured that the State will do it for them. Public health overrides any Constitutional right to religious practice as has been shown in court many times.

Some party favors for the next haredi brit.

I got my penis sucked by a mohel and all I got was this lousy Tshirt and herpes.

Hey, this isn't gonna metzitzah bpeh itself.

Love sucks and my mohel sure loves me.

ca, there there...you sound like you need a little affection.
And common sense, since you posted your comment not as a private letter but publicly for the world to read.
Now go have some warm milk and you'll feel better.

David, what's the state of things in Oz? Is MBP legal there, if you know?

"Leah, you cannot reveal a patient's name without the parents' permission. HIPPA Law"


HIPAA - as in the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) of 1996.

HIPPA is a female Hippo.

Sorry.

:-)

In Australia, espiaclly in Melbourne, it is very hard to find a mohel who doesn't use his mouth. Most will not be a mohel if the parents won't let them use direct penis to mouth contact.

If you can't find a mohel who won't use his mouth then perhaps the solution is to get a a medical circumcision and then later after the wound has healed get a mohel to draw a drop of blood from where the foreskin was, say the brachot and then you have a 100% kosher bris. No mouths, no unhygienic practices. This is what is done with a child or an adult that is Jewish but has had a medical circumcision and no bris or a circumcised convert.

Not oo long ago, in cosmic terms, the world was believed to be flat. If you suggested otherwise, you were put to death. More than 50,000 people die every year in America because of car accidents. Outlaw cars and we will save 50,000 lives, guaranteed. The saving of even one life by outlawng MBP is not a guarantee. Should not our considerable efforts be directed towards the guaranteed saving of lives, whether by the outlawing of cars, assualt weapons, tobaco, alcholoic beverages, etc.
Ladies and getlemen, where are our priorities ? Should we be driven by emotional sentiments or by scientific proof ?

Who is to say what happens here? What if somehow a goy is trying to discredit Torah Yidden by spreading thhis when no one is looking and then we get blamed? A nanny or maid or even someone connecting internet! All it takes is a second! Yidden when around goyim nevver relaks!

sehd these hasids to iran where they can be with their spititual muslim brothers. theses extremisits are abigger threat to the wprld than global warming. they will be the cause of the next nuclear war.

to reb MENDEL . you arse hole\, are you trying the reverse blood libel on its head.? Chabad are PARASITES wrapped up in te philim

Thanks Eli.

Suri I knew you wouldn't get it so lets take your argument one step at a time. You arite "Not so long ago, in cosmic terms, the world was believed to be flat. If you suggested otherwise, you were put to death." And thanks to science and exploration we know differently. The same way that now thanks to science and experience we know that viruses and be carried from a mouth to an open wound. You continue "More than 50,000 people die every year in America because of car accidents. Outlaw cars and we will save 50,000 lives, guaranteed." Driving a car is a mode of transportation and there are laws to regulate it and make it as safe as possible. Reasonable people drive safely and take precautions to avoid accidents. When it comes to Bris mila and MBP you are arguing against regulation and safety precautions. And more,you are advocating that babies be exposed to an unnecessary risk. You continue "The saving of even one life by outlawng MBP is not a guarantee. Should not our considerable efforts be directed towards the guaranteed saving of lives, whether by the outlawing of cars, assualt weapons, tobaco, alcholoic beverages, etc." First of all it is guaranteed that you will be saving lives. You go on "Ladies and getlemen, where are our priorities ? Should we be driven by emotional sentiments or by scientific proof ? You are exposing babies to a risk of herpes you idiot. You are the one acting on emotion and ignoring scientific proof and advocating for an unnecessary procedure that the baby has no choice in. Nothing you cite even remotely compares to MBP. Not only that its people like you that fuel the argument to ban circumcision all together. So if you think your helping your not. You sound like a complete idiot to almost everyone here and you are one.

Reb Mendel, what is wrong with people like you and Suri. Do you not know that a virus can be carried from one persons saliva to the open would of another person. This warning is only talking about herpes but what about the other viruses like RSV that can be transferred to a baby. Even a common cold virus can kill a baby. How many Jewish babies have contracted RSV and other virus's and died. Why would anyone expose their baby to these risks? !!!

Seraphya,
Thanks. Strange that there's not even use of a pipette, which seems common practice (from what I know) in places where a mohel often holds a day job as a pediatrician or other type of doctor, so is concerned about keeping things sterile.

Suri, no civilization that developed any science believed the world was flat, from the Greeks to the present. Your MBP is the equivalent of flat-earthing in a day when you can see pictures if the earth from space. So, yeah, you should look up some info on the flat earth, and then do the research on penis sucking.

But you won't because you aren't interested in the data but in defending a discredited, harmful practice.

Serapha, are they Chabad?

ca, I believe RebMendel is a parody.

Tragically, the other mendel, the raging meshiachist, appears to be all too real.

I had hoped you were following and would weigh in on this thread a little over a week ago:

Scuffle In Chabad's Main Synagogue Over Rebbe Dollar Ritual

I mentioned you in a couple of my comments, but I also said some things about my experiences with religion in general and Chabad in particular I wanted you to read.

"The solution is actually trivial. The Halacha never states that the metzitza must be done by the same person who performs the bris milah":

Congratulation! Bsoira Toiva! There is a new Haredi profession – let call it “Moitzetz”. It will create many jobs and open Parnose opportunities for Bnei Toira.

It will also allow many Haredim with obsession to protuberant children genitalia (very common phenomena in Haredi circles) to fulfil their Taive be Derech Hakoidesh.

I am waiting for rabbinical rulings like “there is an obligation for father to find Moitzetz Yare Shamaim for his son”.

Also these who are into adult males will be able to act as Moitzetzim during the Bris for Gerim or Baalei Teshuva.

Rusian PhD - LOL!!!

Shoshy - LOL!!! When haredim shout, "There's no proof!", it's hard to know if they are defending MBP or Nechemya Weberman.

Russian PhD - As an English translation of "Moitzetz" they can be known as "Suckers."

Jeff, I'll look at that post. Been kind of busy and haven't rally been commenting much.

Thanks, ca. I'm posting here as I don't know if you'll see it if I post it over there (did you notice it's a two-page thread?).

(Also, I want to be sure you read my account of him forcing his mother to drive in a blizzard to retrieve his tefillin because Yossi Lipsker had filled his head with nonsense about building his home in olam haba, and he was terrified. Even if he was misconstruing or over-interpreting what Yossi told him, the point is that it would never occur to Yossi that he might be doing any harm or that the kid might be suffering from psychological issues he was completely unqualified to diagnose. After all, reading Tanya daily cures all illnesses, doesn't it?)


I want to emphasize that when I say "indiscriminate shlichus" and complain about the lack of an intake procedure, I don't mean only the automatic indoctrination of young people with mental illnesses, but those who are simply unsuited to the lifestyle as well, as it would never occur to any of these guys, BT or FFB, that someone might be better off in another form of Orthodoxy , or (chos v'sholem!) in liberal Judaism. My nephew has told me Chabad is the only legitimate form of Judaism remaining, and as WSC has said, they have a history of trashing other people's minhagim (I know you're one of the very few exceptions; I recall your recent foray into a Reform shul).

There's something else that bears repeating. When I say I have nearly a decade of my nephew's crap circulating inside my head, I'm not saying it for dramatic effect. He has quite literally ruined Judaism for me, and since he doesn't have one thought his Chabad handlers haven't put in there, Chabad, by extension, has ruined it for me - and you are the only Lubavitcher on the face of the planet who would have the sechel, not to mention the good taste and common human decency, to even attempt to apologize, let alone question the wisdom of Chabad's policies.

I've recently had a death in the family and have been saying kaddish (I don't really believe, but I'm not quite a radical materialist and it's something I can do for the person that may be helpful, and I have the time). It's made it more difficult for me than it had to be.

I read through your comments on the other post. It's a major problem in my opinion that Chabad delegitimizes other forms of Judaism even those that are Orthodox. It's not just Chabad that does it. Orthodox Jews love to trash each other, usually when they are in their own circles. The first Chabad Rabbi that I met had a Phd and encouraged me to go to college. Times have vastly changed for the worse since then. I'm glad to hear your saying kaddish for your relative.

Suri Taub--ARE YOU THAT EVIL OR RETARDET THAT ONE DEATH IS NOT TO MANY FOR YOU,YOURE THE LOWEST SCUM OF THE EARTH THAT BREATHES.

Posted by: jancsibacsi | January 07, 2013 at 09:28 PM

You Hungarian peasant!
Your mind is too clouded by what that shochet/mohel in der alter heim did to you. You are completely erratic and irrational. I keep begging you to get help by a doctor that can help "retardet" people...

Posted by: Better than you | January 09, 2013 at 05:26 PM

Your very name screams irony. You're better than no one.

"Does anybody know how many haredi girls have gotten HSV? If only the boys get sick, then it's logical to assume that the cause is something that applies only to males."

Girls would get the illness during birth if mommy has an active infection, quite possible if those infected baby boys grow up and get married-herpes doesn't exactly go away.

I can see this scene played out "Honey, I'm not lying, I got herpes from the mohel..."

Jeff:
A chill pill perhaps?

I'm perfectly calm. You're an idiot with nothing of value to say - a credit to your rabbonim.

I'm glad to hear your saying kaddish for your relative.

Posted by: ca | January 09, 2013 at 03:39 PM

I've stopped, actually, for a number of reasons:

1. I don't believe in postmortem continuity, but if it is part of our reality, I've done what I could for her.

2. If there is a god, personal or impersonal, it can go fuck itself. It's spent five and a half decades screwing me over in ways you couldn't begin to comprehend.

3. Even if neither of the above applied, Chabad has completely ruined Judaism for me. I cannot emphasize this enough.

I hear ya.

Jeff
You know next to nothing about me. YOUR posts however, uncover a whole lot about YOU. I am here for entertainment purposes only. Call me a barbaric sadist or whatever pleases you; the pity is on YOU and all other deranged people your ilk.

Jeff
I actually have plenty valuable pearls of wisdom to share with you should you be civil.
Also note: I share your views regarding rabbonim (most of them...) However, I have the capacity to function perfectly well as a Haredi jew and doing what I believe is right; no need to throw in the towel and give up as you and others did. I hold a good paying position and enjoy life on top of that; thank G-d for that. Don't blame G-d for YOUR failures and shortcomings.

Better than you-So youre suri taub you subhuman excreement.

Jancsi
So your Jeff...
Last time I checked, I had male organs (untouched by others but 4 people: 1) my pediatrician 2) Mohel - when circumcised... 3) my mother 4) my wife; you know where this is going...) The name Suri generally indicates a female; oy,what that poor Hungarian slob in the shtetl did to your HEAD!

Better than you--So youre a dick head this explains everything,you really think i dont know suri is a female are you that far gone,since you always make a mockery of my being molested i can tell you this much you are beyond the pale,you think its something to make fun off, youre lower then low, you are just as guilty as a molester if not more you show youre true character.

Jancsi
Then dickhead is something I'm proud to be!

While my heart goes out to these defenseless newborn baby boys, the upside is, one less potential pedophile.
Why they would want to go on killing their own is inexplicable. So sad.

What amazes me is that a religious person like a mohel gets herpes, which is caused by promiscuity.

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