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January 30, 2013

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Shragi

"No one's allowed to touch you? What are you holy?"
Why doesn't he go to jail where he belongs and get touched by some shkotzim.

Yerachmiel Lopin

Shmarya,

Kudos for being a tireless bloodhound on the trail of this story.

Yasher Koach!

ruthie

NO!!!!!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
he said
no one's allowed to touch you? what are you holy?
omg
yes, as a jewish woman and a human being...i feel holy.
and i thank the good g-d above that i do.

The Knowledgable One

What a sick dog that should be put down permanently

Russian PhD

Rotten fruit from rotten tree. Rebbe (MM Schneerson) so continuously and obsessively spoke about “holly and pure small children of Israel” (nearly in every Sichah and Maamar), that I will not be surprised that he was also paedophile.

jancsibacsi

This excuse of a rabbi is in my oppinion a bonified mental case ,i assume all his toreh learning made him incapable of any human emotion,his mind was overtaken by mindless humras and imaginary scenarios that was pounded in his sick mind,he lost touch with reality as a result of all that now he is just a zombie like creature.

soso

soso

He really does not have a clue about sexual abuse, and therefore he should not talk about it.

It is nice that he tries to tell the victims that they did no aveira, but the implication that they could have done an aveira is scandalous.

the assumption that everybody was molested in russia is scandalous too. the assumption that a person who was molested at 9 years of age should just get over it is scandalous too. That he says the molestor is "somebody else did an aveira, but it's non of your business" is just the contrary of justice.

He really does not have a clue, so he should just be quiet.

steven eppel

freidman is a horse's ass.
he's a clown, but instead of a multi-colored wig, he has an out of control white beard.
he shouldn't be taken seriously by anyone.

S.

I seriously can't work this out with the no one blushes any more schtick.

The explainer

You guys are seeing what you want to see, not the reality.

His is explaining the approach to counseling victims. Nothing in what he says it talking about the abuse itself or the abuser. If you disagree with his approach to counseling victims, it's your issue, not his.

Shmarya

You guys are seeing what you want to see, not the reality.

His is explaining the approach to counseling victims. Nothing in what he says it talking about the abuse itself or the abuser. If you disagree with his approach to counseling victims, it's your issue, not his.

Posted by: The explainer | January 30, 2013 at 08:09 AM

Do you have some form of illness that limits your hearing?

He very clearly speaks directly about the abuse itself – and he minimizes it.

Stop lying.

YTHM

So it's safe to say all Chabad goy think it's normal to get molested? Do they even know what it means? Would this rabbi suck it up if some bear-jew molested him?

AztecQueen2000

"Get over it"? The only way to move past abuse is with support, understanding, and a competent therapist. Even with that sort of network in place, it never really goes away.

chaim36

On whose payroll is Manis on ? Who pays him ?

rebeljew

Explainer

He is telling the abuse victim to "get over it", "it's normal". He condescendingly disregards the efforts of psychology and psychiatry in the typical old man fashion, "in my day ..."

Seriously, "what, nobody can touch you?" Manis, is that what they are claiming, that someone inadvertently touched them or that a friendly gesture was misunderstood? I think you are being dense for a guy who took on the Oxford debate team. Is that what you tell Holocaust survivors? Listen, your father saw war, your grandfather saw war. Get over it. Is that what you tell a rape victim, as Dorothy Parker once famously quipped, if you can't stop it, relax and enjoy it?!!!! What on earth is going on in your attic, Manis? Recovery starts with feeling safe. Once a victim feels heard and feels safe, then they can start to "get over it" after a really long time. Your approach is to tell them that it is normal to be at risk and get over it. Even if true at some realistic level, you are truly obtuse. Why did Moshe tell the people "Ehye" instead of "Ehye asher Ehye" according to Rashi? Seriously, even a five year old can refute your nonsense.

The explainer

Shmarya, stop skewing the reality into your own perverted world view. Open up your eyes and smell the real world. If only with help of qualified psychologists...

shoshy

He actually does tell the victims they might have done an aveira, but it's not such a big one and now they should do two mitzvas.

rebeljew

On the subject of halacha, I think what he is saying is the molestation itself is not one that would draw lashes or a death penalty or whatnot. Shockingly, he is correct in that regard. Short of penetration, halacha does not seem to have a problem with molestation, even adult child molestation, except as it regards increasing the likelihood of vain emissions, or leading to worse things. Manis defends this as the more healthy worldview against the light of modern psychology etc. That is what he means when he says that even rabbinic blessings, which are institutions for their own sake have more gravity than a law that is instituted merely as a fence to avoid a slippery slope. The molestation itself, short of penetration, is not a sin unto itself.

So how would REAL halachic authorities deal with this, when halacha does not cover something that obviously needs to be dealt with? They would allow the court to enact new laws to punish perpetrators with torture, beatings, jail (yes, jail is a halachic punishment), public humiliation or anything else that court sees fit to enact, EVEN IF THE SIN IS NOT TECHNICALLY AN AVEIRA. Yes, Manis, you forgot to do your Rambam this month and the Shulchan Aruch that follows it, right there in the halachos that you so staunchly want to defend (as would I)! In other words, the court is empowered to use COMMON SENSE to stop people from doing bad things that are not directly addressed in current case law!!!!! So the point that you try to make that halacha doesn't consider it a problem so we should minimize it is, itself, dead dog wrong, against halacha, and definitively a court shirking its duty. And you, Manis, are advocating against Jewish law and making a chilul Hashem, which, BTW, is a far more egregious sin than not saying a bracha.

soso

"If you disagree with his approach to counseling victims, it's your issue, not his."

I completely disagree with his approach to counseling vicitms.

He says to a woman who was molested as a nine-year-old girl: "Do you think your mother and grandmother made it through adolescence in russia without being molested?".

1) Being molested (raped) at nine years is worse than being molested at 17.

2) The underlying assumption is that all russians are barbarians and have nothing to do but molest girls.

3) The answer conveys the impression that being molested is normal. I think it is important for abuse victims to understand that sexual abuse is not normal.

4) You can have an approach that the victim should look towards the future and not dwell on the past, but mr. Friedman definitely lacks knowledge, sensitivity and empathy to counsel abuse victims.

5) There is always an underlying assumption that the victims did an aveira, that they are "damaged goods", as he says later in the video. This is wrong. Even suggesting that they are NOT "damaged goods" relies on the underlying assumption that they could be viewed as such, and this is very wrong in my opinion.

Yochanan Lavie

Apologies to: Free As A Bird by The Beatles:

Friedman's a turd,
It's a shameful thing to see.
Friedman's a turd.

Gei, gei und schrei,
This will make more Yidden frei
Than a girl who sings.

Whatever happened to
A simple ehrliche Jew?
Can't we really live without Lubavitch?

Where did we lose the trust
That seemed to mean so much?
It always meant safety...

Friedman's absurd,
Like an old undead Rebbe.
Friedman's absurd.

Home, home I'll cry,
The victim's not at fault my, my
As an evil thing.

Whatever happened to
Calling the cops, so nu?
Molesters shouldn't feel so free.

Friedman's a turd.
Is his beard too full of fleas?
Friedman's absurd.
Friedman's absurd.
Friedman's absurd.

jancsibacsi

I know where he is coming from his reasoning is if you can get away with the biggest abuse of a helpless child that is his type of brit milla with mbp then all other things like rape molestation is nothing a nonevent compared to that abuse,he is mentally deranged you can see it in the picture here he has his circuits crossed in his puny brain

Korbendallas72

Foxes guarding the henhouse. Chabad in a nutshell.

Menachem

FM, I think you should go to Manis for counseling. You really need to care of all that hate pent up inside of you. Maybe he can help you find something productive to do with your life.

Isa

Is this clown doing something that ONLY a licensed person can do?

Think! perhaps he is dispensing counseling that only a licensed therapist is able to do.

I would like to put a dent in his 'business'. Headlines in the religious section of the Sunday paper!! it would not bother me to moser manis at all.

This would make up for the Chabad shaliach to the Minneapolis community that grabbed my nuts.[circa ~ 1980s] Another poster said of this shaliach that this creep took an unwarranted interest in a very young girl, never to be invited over to their house again.

Inadvertently I caused this creep shaliach to divorce his wife and to go 'frei'

Manis! this creeps name was Goodman and it is I Isa who did him in.

Kinky Friedman

He is using an ill-advised tough love approach.

Then again, maybe it isn't so ill-advised as regular therapy sadly does not work for many abuse victims.

He is still head and shoulders above Shmarya in everything but bulk. He is human and makes mistakes.

And it is not the business of this mysterious "Chabad Headquarters" to comment on him. "Chabad Headquarters" is an administrative group, nothing more and nothing less. If you don't like Rabbi Friedman, don't pay for his lectures. (I certainly don't.)

Alter Kocker

Ultra Orthodoxy=Group Mental Illness.

In any other society, a child molester would be arrested, tried, convicted and punished. In Ultra Orthodox circles the victim is harassed, bullied, excised and demeaned.

The rabbinic leaders that espouse this are merely looking for payoffs instead of justice. Secular authorities need to stop trying to "soft-sell" the law of the land and start jailing these bearded assholes as accessories. Tossing this fuck in the slammer with some real criminals would quickly turn the tables. One night in jail and he would show up at 1 Police Plaza with 10 paedophiles with signed confessions.

R.W.

I think it would really be nice if the good rabbi would refrain from pontificating on matters that are plainly beyond his ken and just stick to those areas in which his proven expertise is clearly beyond dispute, like evolution and cosmology (eye roll).

jancsibacsi

Kinky Friedman-lets see how you would talk after youre 10 year old son would be molested,you would go out of youre mind which now you are also but for different reasons

Korbendallas72

I love how Chabadnik sodomites immediately insinuate that there's something mentally wrong with a person accusing a rabbi of systematically protecting the most heinous behavior known to man. That's old-school communism and pure evil. No truth, no justice, just the scholarly wisdom of a good old-fashioned sodomite.

dh

Anyone who has sent their children to Chabad schools, camps, clubs and outings and who continues to do so is obviously offering them up for rape and abuse.

Anyone who already has offered their children to Chabad needs to email this to those Chabad locations demanding response, to local and neighborhood publications, to public schools who let Chabad use their grounds and to law enforcement for investigation and to every single agency in every jurisdiction that investigates child rape and abuse. No excuse. Do it now. Now.

All children should be taken to their pediatrician for regular physicals and all that have had anything to do with any Chabad anywhere on the planet should be monitored for physical and psychological issues by competent licensed entities.

Shut down Gan Israel and Friendship Circle.

You are a brave pioneer, Shmarya. If only parents cared a scintilla as much.

rebeljew

I know it is a long shot, but is there a chance that Manis will put his money where his mouth is and address a forum on your site directly? If he is so sure that you are beneath his rhetorical skills, will he put up?

IOW, he wants you to retract all of your published content, why wouldn't he welcome the chance to dispute it directly on your turf?

dh

Someone needs to update his Wikipedia profile.

Menachem

Posted by: dh | January 30, 2013 at 11:26 AM

Ah, so you are part of the Wikipedia propagandists (mis)information war. Assassinate the characters of all your ideological opponents.

Eli, what me messiah?

YL, another brilliantly funny one. (I think I've become a YL groupie...oh dear....)

as for Friedman, just keeps pouring it out for the lobotomized zombies.

Eli, what me messiah?

Menachem,
it's called the truth, not character assassination.
for Friedman, you could call it character self-immolation.

dh

Menachem | January 30, 2013 at 11:50 AM

It's his voice, not mine. He assassinated himself.

R. Wisler

jancsibacsi:
Please don't defame the good name of Kinky Friedman by comparing Menamchem Friedman to him. Kinky is a righteous man and is of the Jewish faith. Menachem Friedman is not.

John Nagle, Silicon Valley, CA

Is there a full transcript of this?

Joe Field

“says that hardly a kid who attends programs [Chabad, haredi, etc.] hasn't been sexually abused”

Kudos to this subhuman asshole, at least he is an honest man, and admits that basically the overwhelming number of kids in Chabad that have been sexually abused.

R. Wisler

OOPS!!! I meant "Manis" in the above post, not "Menachem". Sorry to any Menachem Friedman's who I might have offended...

jancsibacsi

R. Wisler-I dont think you meant to write to me , you"re mistaking me for another blogger here.

Yochanan Lavie

Thanks, Eli.

Re: lobotomized zombies: I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

Sarek

YL, within your parody, I can hear John's sarcastic quote, "you tell me, you're the cosmic one."

under duress

I hereby declare that any answers to stupid questions regarding shidduchim should be answered with "I had diarrhea once".

Sholom

Actually, his full name is Menachem Manis Friedman.

Emanuel Newgant

Apart from a very laudible strong response by Rabbi Moshe D. Gutnick of Sydney Australia (posted in the original FM article!) the Chabad hierarchy has said nothing. I've been assured that http://www.collive.com will not even publish Gutnick's response.

The type of thinking manifested by Friedman is typical of the mindset in Melbourne Yeshivah Centre. So I think it's appropriate for a self-appointed macher in MYC, Emanuel Althaus, to weigh in with a statement about Friedman's views. This Althaus refused to give Zephaniah Waks (a victim's father) an aliya this last Shabbos because he accuses him of somehow being involved in a previous exchange between 2 anonymous bloggers here on Failed Messiah relating to rumours of pedophile (and worse) involvement of Althaus!

To phrase in verbatim terminology from a recent threatening email from Althaus, which I am told is now before police, what Althaus must do on behalf of Melbourne Yeshivah Centre and Chabd worldwide in relation to Friedman: "via his (Althaus's) silence, by default he agrees with that absurd (video)...it is obligatory to come out and state it is false...but...I won't be holding my breath....if there no unequivocal and unreserved...denunciation of those specific (views)...Rest assured, people will know why. The day of reckoning has come on this one.......understandably."


judith ross

i hope this piece of human garbage dies ,, slowly, painfully, and preferably naked and being ,, sexually 'molested'.

Shmarya

i hope this piece of human garbage dies ,, slowly, painfully, and preferably naked and being ,, sexually 'molested'.

Posted by: judith ross | January 30, 2013 at 03:54 PM

That's way over the line.

Yurtur Binsonfire

Scotty boy, you fucking maggot, you are a pile of human garbage that should die a slow and painful death while being sexually molested.

A Yid

What's Rabbi Manis Thinking?

From the COLlive inbox: Devorah, a former student of Rabbi Manis Friedman reveals what the renowned teacher really thinks about the issues of molestation and abuse.
http://www.collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=23795&alias=whats-rabbi-manis-thinking

ruthie

yo!
yurtur.....what's the matter chabad letting you down?

Tony

Manis: So Zionists control the land of Israel - get over it. So gays and lesbians are marching in parades and getting married - big deal. So MBP is not so easy to do without government involvement - you think you're the only one who has to conform to US Health standards? So frum girls are raising their skirt lengths every year - is it Soooo harmful to see a thigh or two once in a while? Why do YOU make such a fuss over such minor cases of "damage"? And all this is assuming a moral equvalence to molestation which is already absurd. Rebeljew got it right. Torah presumes a relatively moral base, and Bais Din can choose any punishment necessary to maintain that baseline. Sad to say but Batei Dinim have been overrun with corrupt and/or psycopathic men with good memories or oratory skills. Neither of these were Moshe Rabeinu's qualifications and they shouldn't be the qualifications to be our MORAL and ETHICAL leaders.

ruthie

Tony

BRAVO
BRAVO
BRAVO

BRILLIANT

Emanuel Newgant

A big yes to Tony. As Rabbi Ze'ev Smason has pointed out recently, a minimum for Judaism is ethical monotheism. Anything less, bye-bye, which is unfortunately what is happening to many of our discerning youth. Do you blame them, seeing these sorts of Neanderthal views?

Jeff

You guys are seeing what you want to see, not the reality...

Shmarya, stop skewing the reality into your own perverted world view. Open up your eyes and smell the real world.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: fundamentalists have no sense of irony.

Emanuel Newgant

Jeff, it would be laughable if not so dangerous. This guy is dangerous.

Seraphya

Until now I thought that maybe he was just molested and trying to compensate for that and feel better about himself, but now I am sure he is a ****ing piece of *%$#! @!#$er.

Seraphya

Let me clarify, I thought he was only minimizing the effect that abuse intrinsically has to have on the victim for the sake of the victims mental health, solely from the perspective of the victim as understanding that they were passive victims not active participants.

Now it is much clearer to me that he think molestation is something that has always happened and will continue to happen, and its just not tznius by halakha, so the only thing the community has to do is make victims feel less damaged rather than root out the phenomenon of molestation and rid the community of molesters.

Graham

There has been a mistake

Shmarya said "The abuse itself isn't a big aveirah, sin, he says – not saying the after-blessing over a piece of cake is worse".

I listened to the interview and Manis Friedman said something different.

Manis Friedman is saying that in regards to victims of molestation, "having been molested" is not an aveirah.

Manis Friedman is trying to say that the victim of molestation has not done an aveirah.

Shmarya

Posted by: Graham | January 31, 2013 at 04:36 AM

To say that you have no clue, that your grasp of what took place is very weak, is an understatement.

Perhaps when a few of your rabbis down under are sitting in prison for their roles in covering up child sexual abuse and protecting pedophiles, reality will begin to dawn on you.

Then again, perhaps not.

rebeljew

Graham

See my explanation above.

Tony

You forgot a few qualifications for a "dayan":
1) You must have tremendous yichus, like Avraham Avinu did.
2) You must agree with all hashkafos that we deem worthy and vehemently disagree with all of those that we foam at the mouth over (IOW to lead, you must be a follower)
3) You must follow your rosh yeshiva even when your own common sense would dictate otherwise (IOW, in order to lead, you must be a lemming, not just a follower)
4) You must be well known and popular (IOW, do not do anything that might upset loud people with press contacts)

These qualify you to judge others, counsel them in marriage, divorce, abuse, mental illness or addiction, make scientific pronouncements, make policy decisions alone, speak in the name of all Judaism and Jewry, judge legality in any type of criminal case in any country, to the point where you can speak to the press in the name of all Jewry, and be accountable to no one but G-d.

Welcome to the celebritocracy orthodox Judaism today.

Jeff

to the point where you can speak to the press in the name of all Jewry, and be accountable to no one but G-d

They're accountable to God? Since when?

jancsibacsi

Graham--ARe you for real this manis has no idea what it is to be molested ,the child feels powerless its like the grownup is toying around with him emotionally the child cannot or has no say in what is being done to him out of fear what in the universe does he think by saying the child should not feel guilty it easier said that done any normal child with whom an adult toys around should feel freakish and some sense of helplesness,that is what bothers the child not guilty feeling but the adult having power over him on his body it is enraging feeling.

Bill

R' Friedman knows exactly what he said and why he said it. As more and more molestations of Chassidic origin come to light he needs to somehow explain why anyone should have anything to with Chabad or similar groups. By diminishing the act, he diminishes the impact (of the revelation), and thereby establishes the new normal. Nothing to see here folks, move along.

CCC

Sounds like Manis Friedman has the mind of a paedophile or is one.
Not surprising in religious circles.

Beryl Bunjick

Here's the question I have for Rabbi Friedman. If I came to him, and cut off his right arm and his left arm, so that he could no longer put on t'fillin or eat with his hands or tie his shoelaces, how would he feel? Would he just go on living because, after all, HE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG! HE WAS JUST A VICTIM! I did the wrong! His life should be EXACTLY THE SAME.

He is truly nuts.

Michael

A man should be judged by his best moments, not his worst. Manis has had 40 years of those “best” moments in the rabbinate, almost entirely unreported. He’s saved lives, he’s comforted thousands, he’s been a brilliant teacher of Torah. That he should have received his greatest publicity for his briefest moment of indiscretion reflects more poorly upon his critics than it does upon him.

John Uzoigwe

No no no. This is the dumbest thing have ever heard. I really don't get it. Is he saying theres nothing wrong with with being molested? I am really disappointed in him. Is that what the Torah teaches. I really think he needs a therapy. This is not a mistake, this is complete stupidity.

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