Why Did Jews Get Expelled From England And Parts Of France?

Jews were expelled from England in 1290 CE and from parts of France before that. Why did this happen? Was it simple antisemitism? Or did Jews play a role in our own expulsion? The answer may surprise you.

 

Why did Jews get expelled from England and parts of France? Simple antisemitism?

No.

At least not according to the Maharam mi-Rothenburg (c. 1215 – 2 May 1293), the leading rabbi of Germany and the general area surrounding it at the time of the expulsion from England and an earlier expulsion from part of France who was asked what the halakha is for Jews who are forced to swear on a Sefer Torah that they would not “clip money” (i.e., shave bits pieces of silver off coins to lighten their weight while collecting the silver bits and melting them down into ingots, or for use as jewelry, or even as counterfeit coins).

The men swore the oath on the Sefer Torah, but they had in mind that the oath they swore should not really be valid.

The Maharam mi-Rothenburg answered (Siman 246 in the Lemberg 1860 edition, page 20-21) that without question the oath is valid, and it is a terrible sin to steal from Gentiles.

But the Maharam mi-Rothenburg added something else.

He says that clipping money caused the expulsion (the “actual word he uses is destruction”) of the Jews from France and England.

The most relevant excerpt: "וכמה דמים נשפכו על ידי אלה וכאלה פוסלי מטבעות היינו דאחרבינהו לאחינו יושבי צרפת והאי,” “How much blood was spilled on account of these clippers of coins, causing the destruction of our fellow Jews who lived in France and the Island [England!]”

To be sure, the Maharam mi-Rotenburg is also cognizant of antisemitism among the Gentile poulation and does not at all consider them to be blameless. Far from it. But he isn't blind to the misdeeds of his own people who helped provoke the expulsion.

Mississippi Fred points out that Haham David Nieto, who was the rabbi of the Spanish-Portuguese Jews in London in the early 18th century, wrote something similar.

[Nieto] writes that the Jews were expelled from England centuries earlier because of their usury. Same thing: no excuses. The Jews did this, so the gentiles did that. Of course Nieto is not the Maharam, but then again, his book Mateh Dan - Kuzari Sheni was recommended by the Steipler as an amazing emunah-building sefer. I wrote about it here:

"Nieto - writing for Jews, remember - reminds them of what money-lending led to in the Middle Ages: ""no se amotinaran contra nos como hizieron por los exorbitantes usuras que tomovamos dellos en Espana, Francia, Ynglaterra, Alemania e Ytalia. - Will not non-Jews be incited to antipathy against us, just as they were by the exorbitant interest which we exacted from them in Spain, France, England, Germany and Italy?" This is nothing short of amazing. The usual, not entirely incorrect, line is that Jews were driven to usury by being forbidden from other kinds of work. In fact one reason Jews were readmitted to England is because Rabbi Menasseh ben Israel tried that on Oliver Cromwell scarcely 60 years earlier - and it worked. Here Rabbi Nieto speaks to Jews and does not tell them that the persecution and expulsions came out of nowhere without provocation."

[Hat Tip: OnTheMainLine.]

Comments

[Mahir]

Money is god, the Jews clipped money so they clipped god hence they had to be expelled.

Money, the root of all evil.

[maven]

What's next, that the Jews really killed William of Norwich?

[Shmarya]

What's next, that the Jews really killed William of Norwich?

Posted by: maven | December 17, 2012 at 11:29 AM

No, that was the Trilateral Commission.

[Dovid]

And this has to do with Orthodox Judaism how?

[Mordechai Ben Abraham]

You should also say that The Jewish started clipping the coins due to the unfair amount of money they have to pay to the crown

[Yoel Mechanic]

Expelling someone who has been caught clipping money sounds like a response to protect the currency. Expelling *all* Jews because there were Jewish money clippers brings up the question of antisemitic motivations under the guise of protecting the currency. Hardly a complicated excuse. Sounds quite simple.

[Dovid]

And not only that.

As anyone but an ignoramus would know, racism typically involves stereotyping and blaming a whole group for the real (or perceived) misdeeds of the few.

Examples include, of course, stereotyping African-Americans as criminals because of African-American muggers. Stereotyping Jews because of Jewish swindlers. Stereotyping Muslims because of terrorists. And so on.

[Mike Kats]

Stereotyping German’s for being mass murderer's and starting world war’s (The German’s were called Barbarian’s in the 12 century for a reason); Stereotyping Latinos for drug violence, and on and on.

[mikey]

The Russian communist leadership and secret police were also disproportionately Jewish and inflicted much suffering on people. No wonder local populations enthusiastically slaughtered Jews when the Germans came.

[Yoel Mechanic]

Mikey, In the book "Masters of Deceit" by J. Edgar Hoover, he was very careful to address this connection of Jews with communism. He was very direct in stating that there are lots of Jews involved in American communism, but they were only a tiny part of the Jewish community as a whole (even if it seemed they were disproportionate within the small world of American communism). He was very firm in stating that these Jews who became communist were in no way a reflection on Jews as a whole, and in fact were hardly "Jewish" themselves, as he humorously pointed out that the only thing "Jewish" about them was taking the Jewish holidays off from their otherwise busy schedule of communist party activities.

So in America, anti-communism did not blossom into antisemitism in part due to the direct efforts of the former head of the FBI, but also in part to the simple fact that government officials simple were not interested in promoting antisemitism.

So do not let this whole anti-communist shtick be an excuse for antisemitism.

[Chaim Z]

This post is mind boggling. Of course there was some justification given at the time, and of course there was some trace of truth in it, the same way that there were some profitable Jewish bankers before WWII.
If your point would be that Jews have traditionally looked inward to address the causes of anti semitism, it would be well taken. But as it stands, this is the type of post that could be on any white supremacist website, (and could be repurposed for any discrimination throughout history) and that you couldn't see this before posting it is a striking revelation of your weltenshuuang.

[Shmarya]

And this has to do with Orthodox Judaism how?

Posted by: Dovid | December 17, 2012 at 11:52 AM

Nothing, because there was no Orthodox Judaism before circa 1800 CE.

[Lubavitchers are Christians]

Wow. This is amazing stuff.

And the destruction of American Jewry will happen because of Bernie Madoff and Goldman Sachs and Timothy Geithner and Ben Bernanke and Chuck Schumer.

Even the Rev. Louis Farakhan said that the Rothschilds and their co-religionist bankers are destroying this great country.

History repeating itself.

[Mike Kats]

Mikey,

Among members of the Central Executive Committee of the Congress of Soviets in 1929, there were 402 ethnic Russians, 95 Ukrainians, 55 Jews, 26 Latvians, 13 Poles, and 12 Germans(wiki),

Besides, usually, Jews are involved in EVERY big movement, on both sides of the issue. Example, Hitler hated Jews because they are Communist and Captalist.

[Shmarya]

This post is mind boggling. Of course there was some justification given at the time, and of course there was some trace of truth in it, the same way that there were some profitable Jewish bankers before WWII.
If your point would be that Jews have traditionally looked inward to address the causes of anti semitism, it would be well taken. But as it stands, this is the type of post that could be on any white supremacist website, (and could be repurposed for any discrimination throughout history) and that you couldn't see this before posting it is a striking revelation of your weltenshuuang.

Posted by: Chaim Z | December 17, 2012 at 12:24 PM

I'm sure you're a very smart man. Find us several other examples of major rabbis blaming major tragedies on Jewish crimes.

I'm not talking about TANAKH.

And also note that I wrote the following. Perhaps you missed it in your rush to be an asshole:

"To be sure, the Maharam mi-Rotenburg is also cognizant of antisemitism among the Gentile poulation and does not at all consider them to be blameless. But he isn't blind to the misdeeds of his own people who helped provoke the expulsion."

[mikey]

Yoel,I explained the motivation of eastern europeans who were killing Jews when germans came. What does what you wrote have to do with that?

[ca]

Powerful lesson.

[Mike Kats]

Communism was just an excuse. They didn't kill Georgian’s - Stalin’s ethnicity; there were plenty of Jews against communism who were killed or send to Siberia; they hated Jews before Communism (especially the Ukrainians).

Like I said before, there are Jews in every movement (sometimes disproportionately) on both sides of the issue. Just look in the US today.

[jancsibacsi]

Mahir-Its the love of money that is the root of all evil,and not just money.

[mikey]

I'm sure you're a very smart man. Find us several other examples of major rabbis blaming major tragedies on Jewish crimes.

I'm not very smart but off the top: 2nd Temple on baseless hatred, Holocaust on Zionism, Arab terrorism on gay marches.

[Mike Kats]

Lub are:

What about Fannie-May and Fraddie-Mac who according to most economist did much more damage to the economy then GS and Lehman; What about Washington Mutual and Contrywide credit;

What about Treasury Secretary Paulson (under Bush);

What about Allen Stanford $7B swindler. All of them none -Jews.

Most names are that familiar because the Anti-smites make sure to remind everyone only about the Jewish business and people who were involved.

Same happened in the 1930's about Jewish bulshvicks according to Hannah Arendtit: it was "the most efficient fiction of Nazi Propaganda" (wiki)

[mikey]

Among members of the Central Executive Committee of the Congress of Soviets in 1929, there were 402 ethnic Russians, 95 Ukrainians, 55 Jews, 26 Latvians, 13 Poles, and 12 Germans(wiki)

That committee had 0 power and was totally irrelevant... What was relevant was communist leadership at beginning of russian revolution, which was hugely overrepresented by the Jews. And the point of all that is if you can understand why the British expelled the Jews, you can surely understand why Lithuanians and Ukrainians were killing them.

[Mike Kats]

Mikey, lets assume for a minute there were more Jews for Communism then against Communism (i.e. deeply religious Jews and capitalist Jews), I still believe its no excuse and it's evil to stereotype a whole population.

If you don't agree the that principle then we have an excuse to kill all Germans, Mexicans, Colombians, Muslims and more - man woman and child.

[James]

Shmarya,
I guess the Nazis also had "valid" reasons, eh?
Self hating fool

[Mike Kats]

Million's of ppl around the world perceive us (American) as a gun-fanatic, violent, war mongering, women-exploiting sex-addict nation - So do they do have the right or excuse to kill us all?

[jancsibacsi]

James-Moron the natzis murdered thats a big difference from expelling jews are you this stupid as to equate the 2.

[Mike Kats]

Jan: So you agree the Nazis had a valid right to expel Jews from Europe and beyond?

[Barry]

Medieval feudal society can somewhat be compared to the mafia with the king as boss and Jewish leadership playing the role of caporegime in exploiting serfs.

Just as a capo is expected to not steal and to control and discipline those in his control, so were Jews expected to not steal or allow stealing from the king.

As Los Angeles mobster Jack Dragna explained to hitman and later government informant Jimmy Fratianno:

"Meyer's got a Jewish family built along the same lines as our thing. But his family's all over the country. He's got guys like Lou Rhody and Dalitz, Doc Stacher, Gus Greenbaum, sharp fucking guys, good businessmen, and they know better than try to fuck us."

Dragna was wrong about Greenbaum whg began skimming from casino operations. His embezzlement was discovered by the Chicago syndicate. On December 3, 1958, Greenbaum and his wife Bess were found dead in their Phoenix home. Their throats had been cut with a butcher knife. Gus was found in bed with a heating pad and his television turned on. He had nearly been decapitated. Bess sustained blunt trauma to her head before her throat was cut. Her head was padded with newspaper and a towel, seemingly to avoid blood stains on the furniture.

The unhealthy basis of feudal society was based on different laws for different segments of society. This is what Hareidi still call for in their disdain for Jews using 'non Jewish' courts.

[mikey]

James-Moron the natzis murdered thats a big difference from expelling jews are you this stupid as to equate the 2.

Posted by: jancsibacsi

The expulsions were often accompanied by mass murder, there was a famous one in England you might want to read about.

Also, expulsion in those days meant a certain death for many people.

[Mike Kats]

Barry: So the extreme fanatical Anti-Jewish hate was due to medieval misdoings of the Jews; What is today's excuse of the hate for secular Jews?

[Mike Kats]

Why wasn't that much hate against the Italian's (mafia in NY Las Vages and California) Irish (mob in Boston) and against the Mexican's (gangs and drugs) and even Muslim's?

All of the above did (and are still doing) as much exploitation as the Jews

[mikey]

Mikey, lets assume for a minute there were more Jews for Communism then against Communism (i.e. deeply religious Jews and capitalist Jews), I still believe its no excuse and it's evil to stereotype a whole population.
Posted by: Mike Kats

I don't know, it seems here like a few coin-clipping money lenders was reason enough to expel Jews from England. I think I can see now in a more understanding light those uneducated Lithuanians who were burning Jews alive because they blamed Communism on the Jews.

[Bas Melech]

Mike Katz-
I agree with much of what you wrote.

I believe that anti-Jewishness came first. Christians universally believed that Jews killed their savior, so then everything else bad logically follows, especially the usury.

[Moshe aron Kestenbaum, Williamsburg]

Notice how celebrities who seem to reach a crisis moment in their lives bring up the Holocaust or engage in anti-Semitic wordplay during their outbursts — most notably Mel Gibson, John Galliano and Lars von Trier. Two were drunk, one is known for his unpredictable behavior, but still: Why blame the Jewish people? I knew, from the start, that Kroll would not even try to give an honest answer. Instead, this is what we get:

Economic: Jews are hated because they possess too much wealth and power.

Chosen People: Jews are hated because they arrogantly claim they are chosen by God.

Scapegoat: Jews are a convenient group to single out for blame.

Deicide: Jews are hated because they killed Jesus.

Outsiders: Jews are hated because they are different than the rest of society.

Racial Theory: Jews are hated because they are an inferior race.

Bottom line is that the reality is that anti-semites are not all drunks, senile or illiterate. In fact, the majority are well-educated lefties. Obama is surrounded by them. And the camp that Brevick attacked last year was brainwashing teenagers and young adults in anti-semitism. Socialism seems to be ideologically anti-semitic. Probably because the ideal socialist man must be uniform in beliefs and behavior; no multiculturalism allowed (except as a temporary, destructive tactic).

Anyway, that’s how I feel.

[Obadiah]

Mahir-Its the love of money that is the root of all evil,and not just money.

Posted by: jancsibacsi | December 17, 2012 at 12:50 PM

To a point, however money is needed to provide us with the necessities of life like food and shelter as well as the gateways to luxury and power. It permeates almost every activity of our lives hence its godly status. Even our dollar bill states "In God We Trust" and the expression "The Almighty Dollar".

The number one post here at Failedmessiah, the ever present sticky, is the pleading for money!

[A Yid]

Actually the coin-clipping charge was prosecuted with a help of entrapment by a moser - a Shmaryah of that time who wanted to excell in the mitzvah of dina de'malchuta:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Tdn6FFZklkcC&pg=PA133&lpg=PA133&dq=coin+clipping+exile+from+england&source=bl&ots=qK_rxcyLYM&sig=91gCkx5U9c641YLqrthcDVMdv_0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=knvPUMGKH-Xp0gGL_4D4Dg&ved=0CFcQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=coin%20clipping%20exile%20from%20england&f=false
which reinforces the importance of zero tolerance policy for mosrim.

[Barry]

Jews were only allowed into these kingdoms on condition that they played their role as agents of the king in exploiting the indentured serfs. This was no act of kindness by the king and the Jews knew full well what their role was and that their existence depended on this. Enlightenment values particularly equality before the law brought this to an end. Because the Irish and Italian public see themselves as subject to the same law as everyone, we do not blame them for the mafia. Italians and Irish do not form a separate 'estate' under their own. law as Jews once did. That is why it is so dangerous for Jews to claim exemptions from what is criminal for others be it MbP, kashrus, even bus segregation.

[Mike Kats]

SSome hate Jews because they were communist, some because they are capitalist

Some hate Jews because they are weak some hate Jews because they are fighters

Some hate Jews because they are poor and uneducated, some hated Jews because they are rich and elitist

Some hate Jews because they have no loyalty, some hate Jews because they are to loyal.

Some hate Jews because they are fanatics and old fashion, some hate Jews because they are progressive and liberal

Some hate Jews because they are extreme, some hates Jews because they are Independent

Some hate Jews because they are wanderers without a country, some hate Jews because the state of Israel (Zionism is Racism)

[Mike Kats]

But Berry, you didn't answer my question, Secular Jews today don't do all that medieval stuff, why do they still have the hate and (more less) the same complains against the secular Jews?

[Barry]

Because a Jew who does not assimilate and marry a non-jew is not truly secular.

[Mike Kats]

So Hitler, David Duke and the StormFront don't hate Jews who marry a non-Jew? lol, lol, lol, lol.

Now I can add 1 more: Some hate Jews because they have a low IQ some hate Jew because they are too smart

[Barry]

Hitler etc are not your average non-Jew.

[Mike Kats]

1 more:

Some hate Jews because they are racist against AA, some hate Jews because there huge involvement in the civil right's movement (and a few Jews in that movement paid with there lives in the 1960's.

(Not to mention David Axlrod who made his life mission to elect black candidates)

[Patek Calatrava]

This blog is a disgrace. The author of this blog is in the same league with Neturai Karta, Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkestein and all the "turncoat Jews" of history who have stabbed their own people in the heart for sick personal reasons.

[Mike Kats]

The average non-Jew does not hate at all, the average non-Jew is a decent person. David Duke and other alike are the average Jew-hater's, and the average Jew-hater also hate Jews who marry non-Jews, I will let the reader with an IQ above 90, decide.

[sam]

Posted by: Mike Kats | December 17, 2012 at 02:18 PM

Face it, to many the only good Jew is a dead Jew.

[...]

Prior to circa 1800 there was no such thing as Orthodox Judaism. Q. How do you define Orthodox Judaism?
Q. What kind of Jew was:
Moses Maimonides?
Eliyahu Kramer?
Moses Iserlis?
Rashi?
Yosef Karo?
Saadia Gaon?

[Mike Kats]

Petek, This guy is the Jewish David Duke.

Whats does Duke do? He collects (only) the bed stuff that some Jews do, and B, twists, exaggerates and in some cases lies, about the bad episodes involving Jews.

This blog is mainly against Frum Jews but it does not stop there, as history show's - Does who hate (or explode hate) do hate everybody (read the poem: They first came for the Jews...)

[MM]

Here is a detailed review of a major scholarly work on the subject of the expulsion of 1290. The coin-clipping episode is discussed in the review along with other factors considered in the book.

http://www.history.ac.uk/reviews/review/70

[Mike Kats]

Sam: According to the ADL, about 15% of Americans have Anti-Jewish feelings, and its going down...

[Mike Kats]

I won’t be surprised that there were a higher percentage of Jewish swindler’s than non-Jewish swindler’s (although I highly doubt there is any hard evidence to that effect), but I’m almost certain there were a higher percentage of non-Jewish murderer’s then Jewish murderer’s, so maybe the Jews should have expelled all non-Jewish Englishman.

[Eli, what me messiah?]

Nothing, because there was no Orthodox Judaism before circa 1800 CE.

Posted by: Shmarya | December 17, 2012 at 12:25 PM

ahhh.... that was a good chuckle, thanks. too bad it will be lost on at least half the trolls.

but I think Barry's analysis is right. First time I've heard of "clipping" as taking the metal off of coins. it seems like such an obvious and simple crime that the Jews could hardly have been the only ones to practice it. but I don't imagine the other culprits had their entire people expelled from the country.

[Chaim Z]

I'm sure you're a very smart man. Find us several other examples of major rabbis blaming major tragedies on Jewish crimes.

I'm not talking about TANAKH.

And also note that I wrote the following. Perhaps you missed it in your rush to be an asshole:

"To be sure, the Maharam mi-Rotenburg is also cognizant of antisemitism among the Gentile poulation and does not at all consider them to be blameless. But he isn't blind to the misdeeds of his own people who helped provoke the expulsion."
I didn't mean to make the claim that Jews have traditionally blamed themselves as a general matter. What I meant to say was that it would be fine if you were invoking the Maharam as a source in tradition for Jews to look inward as a response to anti-semitism.

Your website is often on the line between a valuable resource and a source of anti semitism. It's the nature of what you do, and what you do is necessary. Too many frum people are in denial about too many things, and we do need to look inward both in order to do the right thing and in order to avoid anti-semitism - and you provide an impetus for that when few others can.

"When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy." — Dave Barry

Don't be that guy.

[Bas Melech]

Sam: According to the ADL, about 15% of Americans have Anti-Jewish feelings, and its going down...

Posted by: Mike Kats | December 17, 2012 at 03:19 PM

Don't believe it. It's there, just not overt.

[MM]

"First time I've heard of "clipping" as taking the metal off of coins. it seems like such an obvious and simple crime that the Jews could hardly have been the only ones to practice it. but I don't imagine the other culprits had their entire people expelled from the country."

Eli, read the review I posted which addresses the issue you raise. And, yes, coin clipping has been present as long as there have been coins with intrinsic value. That is why our coins (the silver and gold ones) had grooved edges to remove the temptation to clip.

[Mike Kats]

David I would respected Shmarya (and considered it constructive criticism) if he would do what he does without the twist and exaggeration's. But since he is doing it in that way I believe the source of his agenda hate.

[Shmaryah,is a self hating Nazi swine]

Shmaryah,whats next? ,would not be surprised if your next article will examine why the Nazis's were justified in gassing six million jews,
As i have said before,and will keep repeating it,you are nothing but a filthy self hating jew hating piece of NAZI filth,and had you lived 70 yrs ago in Europe,i have no doubt,you would have been Mengele's chief KAPO in Auschwitz,and with a smile on your filthy face,you would have marched your own parents and siblings into the gas chambers

[Nachum]

Is there any real historical proof that either of them knew what they were talking about? Sure, Jews get accused of usury all the time.* But is there a single English document from that era accusing Jews of clipping and justifying the expulsion based on it?

*Usury is absolutely essential to run an economy. The Jews were needed and hated at the same time.

[SkepticalYid]

In China they admire Jews tremendously. Their take on anti-Jewish stereotypes (ambitious, shrewd, good with money) is quite positive. They see Jews as a people they wish to emulate. The also often have great sympathy for Jews as they identify with us, because of their suffering under the Japanese occupation.

It's worth watching this short video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ea0KOHt7eXI

[Yochanan Lavie]

Jews are people, too. And therefore some are criminals, just like in any other group. It is undeniably wrong and racist to collectively punish all Jews due to the misdeeds of a few. But that doesn't justify what the criminal few did. Is Meir of Rothenberg a moser, kapo, self-hating Jew, etc., for pointing out that it was wrong- even if the punishment was disproportionate?

[MM]

Nachum, the coin-clipping business was a big deal. Please take a moment to use the link I provided and read the summarizing review which will give you a sense of what was going on in England in the period leading up to the expulsion in 1290.

Here's what the review says about the coin-clipping matter:

The merciless coin-clipping affair of 1278-9, which the gifted and tenacious Israeli scholar Zefira Rokeah has taught us to regard as a bureaucratic iniquity of major proportions, bears an uncanny resemblance to Kristallnacht. It was, like Kristallnacht, a pogrom: a government orchestrated persecution of a group targeted as criminal. Radical measure though it was, which the numerous hangings and the imprisonment of 600 Jewish men in the Tower (probably all the heads of Jewish households in the country) illustrate, was it a staging post on the road to the Endlösung? Not if that road was as twisted as Dr Mundill says it was. It was, for example, Edward himself who brought to a close the persecuting zeal of his first- and second-line managers in 1279. Nevertheless, thereafter the 'ever-present threat of confiscation of his goods and chattels was one which hung over every Jew's life, his family, and his business transactions'; those are Dr Mundill's wise words; they need to be carefully pondered when we examine the last years of Medieval English Jewry.

The expulsion itself was not financially motivated. Dr Mundill makes that crystal-clear also. Money is not everything. It is, however, something. Governments plunder their people: not all of their people all of the time, but some of them most of the time. Edward I plundered the Jews, as his father had done before him, and his father before him. Moreover, in tallaging the Jews he was taxing his Christian subjects. The Statute of the Jewry was one solution to that problem. Yet, what impresses a reader about the financial exactions of Edwardian government is the immense effort put into them. Take, for example, the painstaking national investigation into the goods and chattels of the condemned Jews of 1278-9: all for a paltry £2000. There was more to it than royal avarice and administrative experience. Even if, as Dr Mundill notices, the association of Jews with money appears to have been so imprinted on the minds of some historians they have been unable to think of little else when endeavouring to explain the relation between Edward I and English Jewry, there was far more to that relation than wealth creation. Bureaucrats are driven not only by a need to impress their superiors by doing a good job. Knowing the boss's mind is the first, often the only, imperative of careerists: Edward I's mind, the mind of his archbishop of Canterbury, John Pecham, and probably of his Chancellor, Robert Burnell, were set like stone towards the Jews. Nor is it difficult to understand why. The Jews were not only usurers, they were stubborn usurers who refused to see Christian reason. The so-called Jewish problem in England by the 1270s had nothing to do with a commercial class which facilitated the land market and was, as a consequence and by the familiar process of a rationalizing projection, seen as causing the distress, decline, and ruin of the profligate, negligent, and born loser. That might have been the case in 1190; it was not a hundred years later. By 1290, after his attempts to make them less than Jewish, Edward appears to have believed the Jews were incorrigible cheats and rogues, incorrigible by nature, in other words racially incorrigible, for a devastating racial myth had taken root in West European intellectual and pseudo-intellectual minds. There were exceptions, John le Romeyn, archbishop of York, might have been one Righteous Gentile; he threatened to excommunicate any who molested the Jews as they made their way out of England in 1290. His lone example does not amount to much: not a single voice was raised against the Expulsion itself. Nor was Edward an innovator, despite the expulsion of the Jews from Gascony in 1287. The Papal and Mendicant campaign against the Jews in the 1280s, the anti-Jewish measures of St Louis, Philip III, and Alphonso X of Castille, the earlier expulsions of Jews from English towns, the anti-Semitism of his wife and mother, the example set by Charles of Anjou in 1289, all these played a part in making up Edward's mind in 1290. He might have hoped to gain from the expulsion: a lay grant of taxation as Charles of Anjou had obtained one in 1289, a church more amenable to clerical taxation, and the windfall of Jewish property. Yet, what he most hoped to gain was a name for himself. A good name, because getting rid of the Jews was for a Christian prince the right thing to do. Even so, it demonstrates something about the English perception of their history that Edward is not known as the Hammer of the Jews, but of the Scots, whom he hammered, but not with the finality he did the Jews.

This is only a portion of the review. The entire review is worth reading, as is, no doubt, the book itself.

[Mike Kats]

Meir is not wrong because he is doing it in a balanced (constructive criticism) fashion, unlike this blog who is doing it in one sided dark fashion.

(Just follow him for a while, look at his headlines and then read the articles this blog is referring too).

[Yoel Mechanic]

Mikey, it is very simple. I was explaining what the real motivations were, and contrasting that to the US/FBI policy which was anti-communist, but *not* antisemitic.

How else do you explain the attacks on Jews, most of whom had nothing to do with communism?

Collective attacks are often seen during time of war. Were the Ukrainians making war on a Jewish Nation? hardly... there was not declared war on a Jewish Nation. These were simply antisemitic attacks, and this whole issue about communist Jews just another excuse in a series of attacks that the Ukrainians who were antisemitic were making all along. And who ever said that those Ukrainians even used such an excuse? They hardly ever bother to enunciate an excuse. I think those excuses are being place later by pseudo historians who want to exonerate such crimes.

[Yoel Mechanic]

I hope that everyone reading this thread look carefully at what is being presented, and what is being commented. Look at the carefully chosen words. Look at what is being said, and what is being implied.

Is there a trend to agitate? A trend for cryto-fascist concepts to percolate to the surface? Is this all just an unintended consequence of intellectual discussion?

[Simon]

Neither the Maharam nor R' Nieto are reliable from a historical perspective. They may have been right, they may have been not, and you should only take them with a grain of salt. Rabbis have plenty of reasons to convince their audience that sin leads to expulsion and other general catastrophes. Historical truth is an altogether different matter. Neither were the expulsions motivated solely, or even primarily, by antisemitism; there were plenty of other reasons there too.

[MM]

It should be noted that the early 13th century saw the foundation of the mendicant orders, that is, the Franciscan and Dominican friars. The fraternal orders, particularly the Franciscans, were the principal source of the virulent anti-Semitism which developed in the mid to latter thirteenth century and which has persisted in Europe to the current day.

Unlike monks, who were cloistered, the mission of the friars was to go out among the people and preach in the public square. And one of the topics of fraternal preaching was anti-Semitism. Let us just say they were very effective preachers (and fundraisers), and their messages resonate until this day. The expulsion of the Jews from England in 1290 should also be seen in the context of the relentless attacks on Jews by the friars, in particular the Franciscans.

BTW by the 14th century the friars were hated by just about everyone for their corruption (see Friar Tuck and Chaucer's friar). In particular they were hated by the secular clergy (the parish priests) because the friars soaked up donations which otherwise would have gone to the parishes.

Francis of Assisi has a reputation for piety and kindness to animals, but his followers were a nasty nasty bunch (see Umberto Eco's Name of the Rose about the brou-haha over Franciscan poverty). They had internal factions who denounced each other, and the Inquisition got involved and burnt some of them.

Prior to the foundation of the friars, we were not Europe's favorites (see the massacre of the Jews in the Rhineland by the forces of the First Crusade at the end of the 11th century), but the vicious racist nature of European anti-Semitism was a gift of the friars, particularly the Franciscans.

[Abracadabra]

Prior to circa 1800 there was no such thing as Orthodox Judaism. Q. How do you define Orthodox Judaism?
Q. What kind of Jew was:
Moses Maimonides?
Eliyahu Kramer?
Moses Iserlis?
Rashi?
Yosef Karo?
Saadia Gaon?

Posted by: ... | December 17, 2012 at 03:08 PM

To 3-Dots (...)

1 - Read some history.

2 - See the following, the first being the most basic in answer to your question. The other 2 are regarding Haredism, a branch of Orthodoxy.

http://www.rationalistjudaism.com/2011/10/novelty-of-orthodoxy.html

http://www.rationalistjudaism.com/2012/01/making-of-haredim.html

http://www.rationalistjudaism.com/search?q=post-haredi

[Eli, what me messiah?]

MM, many thanks!

[Gabriel]

In China they admire Jews tremendously. Their take on anti-Jewish stereotypes (ambitious, shrewd, good with money) is quite positive. They see Jews as a people they wish to emulate. The also often have great sympathy for Jews as they identify with us, because of their suffering under the Japanese occupation.

It's worth watching this short video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ea0KOHt7eXI

Posted by: SkepticalYid | December 17, 2012 at 04:11 PM

Thanks for the YouTube link! Much appreciated.

[Timothy]

What a pathetic people with a pathetic history. We should have left them in a cave worshiping Yahweh douncing around the camp fire singing "Ooga booga Yahweh ooga booga"

[Timothy]

It isn't a good thing that the Han Chinese admire the Jews, it's actually embarrassing. The Han Chinese are one of the more oppressive, barbaric, statist, autocratic peoples of the world. They are power hungry and blindly nationalistic. Not exactly the best of traits. Despite liberal myths, they were never superior to "Classical" and Western civilizations. Just compare Greek statues and philosophy to Han Chinese civilization of that same era.

[spacedout BT]

Question by a peasant woman to a Franciscan money lender.- "What's the difference between you and the (expelled) Jew?".----- "I'm here and the Jew is not".

[Shmarya]

Shmaryah,whats next? ,would not be surprised if your next article will examine why the Nazis's were justified in gassing six million jews,
As i have said before,and will keep repeating it,you are nothing but a filthy self hating jew hating piece of NAZI filth,and had you lived 70 yrs ago in Europe,i have no doubt,you would have been Mengele's chief KAPO in Auschwitz,and with a smile on your filthy face,you would have marched your own parents and siblings into the gas chambers

Posted by: Shmaryah,is a self hating Nazi swine | December 17, 2012 at 03:54 PM

You (and several others) are confusing causation with justification.

The Maharam mi-Rotenberg is *not* saying the expulsion is justified.

What he's saying is that it was provoked by, caused by, the coin clipping.

As I noted in my post:To be sure, the Maharam mi-Rotenburg is also cognizant of antisemitism among the Gentile poulation and does not at all consider them to be blameless. Far from it. But he isn't blind to the misdeeds of his own people who helped provoke the expulsion.There's a lesson in what the Maharam wrote for the followers of Menashe Hakoton, the bloc voting, bloc vote dealing Rebbe of Satmar and their followers, and the Pell Grant, school lunch program, special ed scam mongers of the haredi world.

And that's why I posted it.

Every group has some criminals.

But when a particular crime or misbehavior becomes associated with one group, it can be a very bad thing, as the coin clipping scam shows.

Because there's so little antisemitism in America now, the negative impact of getting caught doesn't ripple far past the men who are arrested.

But if the rate of antisemitism would grow, even after the fact, these crimes' impacts would magnify and intensify many-fold.

[SkepticalYid]

Posted by: Timothy | December 17, 2012 at 06:37 PM

Power Hungry? Blindly Nationalistic? You could easily be describing Europeans. Their history is irrelevant to this discussion. I was pointing out current Chinese attitudes towards Jews.

[Sick Failure]

Shmarya, please do the Jewish people and the world at large a favor. Get a therapist to help you with your self-hatred and get off the net.

[Menachem]

Shmarya, you should not be complaining about Jews inciting Anti-Semitism, if you would like to help stop this phenomenon a very productive first step would be shutting down this blog.

[Timothy]

"Power Hungry? Blindly Nationalistic? You could easily be describing Europeans. Their history is irrelevant to this discussion. I was pointing out current Chinese attitudes towards Jews."

No, you couldn't. Show me the Chinese equivalent of Thomas Jefferson or the Magna Carta. Europeans have always been questioning the State and religion. Unlike the legalistic and blind nationalism that we find in primitive Astiatic soceities such as Israel & modern day China.

[SkepticalYid]

Posted by: Timothy | December 17, 2012 at 07:46 PM

Thomas Jefferson wasn't European. England is still a monarchy with a state religion, in case you didn't notice The Chinese people are hardly "blindly nationalistic." If you want to examine a perfect example of jingoism and a mythology of exceptionalism look right in your own back yard.

[Yoel Mechanic]

Natan Sharansky once enunciated a standard to guauge antisemistism. He called it antisemistism in 3D.

Here are the 3D's

1. Demonization
2. Double Standards
3. Delegitimization

I hope this clarifies the issue.

I will also add this idea of "being singled out" as a hallmark of Jew hatred (aka antisemitism)

I have never heard of any national, ethnic, or religious group getting singled out for being "communist" although there is plenty of representation all over the place. Nor have I ever seen convincing evidence that Jews are over-represented (but even if they were, it would not justify oppressing the majority of Jews who have nothing to do with communism, and in fact, get oppressed and singled out by communists as is well known).

[Jeff]

Posted by: Timothy | December 17, 2012 at 07:46 PM

Great. Now this blog is attracting white supremacists in addition to religious fanatics and foaming-at-the-mouth neocons.

Shmarya, you seem to be a psychopath magnet.

[Shmarya]

Shmarya, you should not be complaining about Jews inciting Anti-Semitism, if you would like to help stop this phenomenon a very productive first step would be shutting down this blog.

Posted by: Menachem | December 17, 2012 at 07:29 PM

Please. And the Maharam mi-Rotenbeurg shouldn't have written that that the crimes of Jews caused the expulsion, right?

Because it's always wrong to point out our own crimes, because the goyyim might get us.

And idiots like you do nothing to stop the crime, nothing to make things better, and concentrate on covering up the crimes your friends and commit.

And you think this helps.

Idiot.

[Dave]

I agree with SkepticalYid and disagree with Timothy. China has sadly had a very violent history, going back thousands of years. However, right now it is peaceful, although ruled by a dictatorship. However, the small percentage of Chinese who even know that we (Jews) exist are very favourably disposed to us, for the reasons that others have explained. I can only judge from my 2 experiences
1. four visits to China
2. dating Chinese women
When I mention that I am Jewish, they always say something nice. This is without exception. I cannot believe they were insincere.
So, my conclusion is that we should thank Hashem that the Chinese like us.
Furthermore, this is something else- a topic for a doctoral thesis for someone- there seems to be some similarity between the ethical teachings of Confucianism and our Mussar. In fact, I have read many accounts of ordinary Chinese people who behave like true mentches.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Jeff: Welcome back.

[Menachem]

Shmarya, you are no Maharam miRothenberg.

The Maharam was a great protector of the Jewish people, he did not publicize to whoever would listen the crimes of certain members of the Jewish tribe, he was only privately urging good behaviour.

You on the other hand have viciously attacked any frum member of the Jewish community (often with little grounds) who may have done something wrong, your website is a bastion of hate, it is a hangout for anti semites (as seen by the hateful comments this site, and on other sites that quote FM), no legitimate reason can justify a site like yours.

It is time to do a Cheshbon Hanefesh.

[mikey]

Please. And the Maharam mi-Rotenbeurg shouldn't have written that that the crimes of Jews caused the expulsion, right?

Maharam shmaharam. You are a Jeremiah!

[Shmarya]

Shmarya, you are no Maharam miRothenberg.

The Maharam was a great protector of the Jewish people, he did not publicize to whoever would listen the crimes of certain members of the Jewish tribe, he was only privately urging good behaviour.

You on the other hand have viciously attacked any frum member of the Jewish community (often with little grounds) who may have done something wrong, your website is a bastion of hate, it is a hangout for anti semites (as seen by the hateful comments this site, and on other sites that quote FM), no legitimate reason can justify a site like yours.

It is time to do a Cheshbon Hanefesh.

Posted by: Menachem | December 17, 2012 at 10:02 PM

Please.

You're a fool.

The Maharam mi-Rottenburg allowed his teshuva to be publicized because he thought it had value.

The point – which, like almost all other points, you miss – is that the behavior of the people Y-O-U cover for and shill for is wrong and Y-O-U-R behavior is wrong.

Coverng up the crimes doesn't help, "Menachem," because the crimes are already public – and because the victims are often the little children of your neighbors.

There are REAL VICTIMS, asshole, with more to come unless that criminals you lobby to protect are arrested, tried, convicted and imprisoned.

And the world knows about these crimes because of me, yes, to some extent. But also because of the NY Post and The Daily News, and especially the Jewish Week, and PIX 11, CBS 2, etc.

And despite what your tiny little mind thinks, these are not antisemites and self-hating Jews.

These are reporters, and what they are doing is helping to save the lives of Jewish children – the very same Jewish children you are doing nothing to save.

When you get to be 120 and you face the beis din shel mayloh, in your ignorance and stupidity you think you will be rewarded for standing up to the "self-hating Jew heretic blogger" who "denigrates" "Yiddishkeit."

But instead you will be punished for standing by while Jewish children were raped and assaulted, and for attacking one of the few people on this earth doing anything about it.

I hope to God that you live the rest of your cowardly existence hearing the screams of those tortured Jewish children you did nothing to help echoing through your mind in deep of night as you try to sleep, tonight and every night from now on.

Let some measure of their pain be yours – you've earned it.

[Sick Failure]

Shmarya, when you meet your maker, you will be introduced to others of your ilk. Does the name Reuchlin mean anything to you? He also enjoyed taking quotes and "historical findings" out of context to make Jews look bad.

You have contributed nothing except perhaps using the deductive reasoning of a Charedi man much more intelligent and decent than you who saw some unacceptable activity on your blog and called your attention to it.

He didn't have the IP numbers, but you did, so you did what any 5 year old could do and found out it was Torossian's gang playing games.

The rest of your "scoops" are the scoops from a Pooper Scooper, which is what some Chabad or Aguda activist will use to pick you up out of the gutter when you meet your hard-earned downfall.

[Sick Failure]

Actually I got my Johanneses wrong.

It is the meshummad Pfefferkorn YMS of whom Shmarya ShR"Y reminds me, and not the slightly more honorable Reuchlin.

[cheers]

Hard to believe how low Shamarya has stooped here. Yes, it's all our fault why we have been perssecuted for 2000 years. Pogroms, ritual murders, crusades, nazism, you name it, it's all our fault according to this idiot. Shamarya, the favorite tool of Aryan and other anti-Semitic groups, has no pride in being Jewish, just guilt. What a tragedy this poor man has become!

[Shmarya]

Hard to believe how low Shamarya has stooped here. Yes, it's all our fault why we have been perssecuted for 2000 years. Pogroms, ritual murders, crusades, nazism, you name it, it's all our fault according to this idiot. Shamarya, the favorite tool of Aryan and other anti-Semitic groups, has no pride in being Jewish, just guilt. What a tragedy this poor man has become!

Posted by: cheers | December 18, 2012 at 04:36 AM

Actually, it's hard to believe how stupid you are, and how stupid so many other haredim are.

Try to process.

Causation or partial causation does NOT equal justification.

Would you ban the Maharam mi-Rottemburg because you don't like what he wrote?

Do you think there is any obligation to act honestly and kindly?

Or are you just too stupid to understand any of this?

[No_Light]

cheers, Menachem, Mike Kats, et al. - It's sad that your "education" has left you unable to read basic English, to write and communicate effectively, and to continue with self-improvement through your lives.

That isn't Shmarya's fault. Blame your parents, Rebbes, Rosh yeshivas etc.

Right, as simplified as possible, Key Stage 1-2 level.

In hard times like war or shortage of money, people get angry at each other.

If a group of people are seen to do a bad thing, people get angry at them.

If the people doing bad things deny it, or carry on doing it, or say "We are special. God wants us to have nice things", everyone else gets very upset.

When the people who do bad things, (we'll call them the Purples to simplify it) say "God said ?every Purple is special, that he chose us as his favourite people", then everyone else believes that all Purples feel like that.

People start to watch them closely.
Every time a Purple does a bad thing, or says a bad thing, people notice. When other Purples lie for them, or say "But it's different, we're special", people. notice it.

Soon it looks as if all Purples are bad, and maybe that is why life is bad for other people. After all, the Purples always have food, a place to live, healthy children. How can they do that unless they take money meant for other people?

Everyone gets very angry. Word spreads to other places where Purples live, and the others decide the Purples must go.

When people think of Purples from then on , they think of bad things. They tell stories and sing songs, and children learn that Purples can't be trusted, even though only a few of them did bad things.

One horrible day, many years later, a bad man kills almost all of the Purples, and a lot of other people too.

Everyone is shocked. They let the Purples do what they need to in order to get over their pain. People say "This is bad, that man was evil. Purples are just like us, we must treat them well".

The Purples settle into their new lives. They provide services and goods, people like their music and moving pictures.

But, some Purples start to do bad things again. If they are caught and told they will be told off, they say "That bad man hurt us, it made me sad, so I did something wrong!". They do not get told off.

When Purples do bad things then they say "That bad man killed my friends, I'm sad, I can't help it" or "The bad man took my mummy and daddy, nobody told me what was right and wrong"

The bad Purples decided to talk about the Bad Man if they got in trouble, because this made everyone sad, and they didn't tell the Purples off.

Lots of years later the Purples were a lot like everybody else. However, some Purples lived in little groups, behind high walls. They talked in a way that other people could not understand, and dressed so that they stood out.

They told the King "We are poor. The bad man hurt us, will you help us?". The King gave them money and food. Some people saw that the 'Poor Purples' lived in very nice houses, that their children had full bellies, even though their Daddies did not work.

If people asked about it, Purples and their friends said "But... the bad man!" This made the people forget why they were angry. They stopped talking about Purples who did bad things, because others shouted at them about the bad man.

Some very bad Purples knew this, and did terrible things. They stole from people, they hurt children, and their clothes made them easy to spot.

People said nothing out loud. Children were being hurt, but the bad Purples went to their Master and said "I'm sorry I was bad, I will stop".

The King was glad that the Purple Master did this, because the King was scared of telling Purples off, after a lot of people had called him a "Wicked Purple hater". People did not like this. Why should they be put in chains for stealing or hurting, when the Purples went free?

They shouted at the King, called for him to step down. Then a Purple did a terrible thing. The King was so angry, so sad, and said "No more!"

The King's men brought the evil Purple to the castle.

The other Purples screamed and shouted "The King hates Purples! He is just like the bad man, this Purple did nothing wrong!" The King sent the Purple back to his home, while he decided what to do.

Purples held parties for the wicked man. They gave him money, they hurt his victim, they said to her "You are a liar. The King will never take the man away, because we will shout about the Bad Man, and the King will get scared.

Other people saw this. Purples hurting children, getting angry at the King and the Girl, but not the man who hurt her. They said "I have no bad feelings about Purples. I work. with them and talk to them. They are angry about this too.

The Purple Plan did not work. The wicked man lied to the King, thinking the King was stupid. The wicked one was sent to the dungeon.

His friends screamed at the King "You are worse than the Bad Man! You hate us all. He is special, God does not want him in a dungeon with criminals. He is too special, he should have better treatment!"

Everyone outside the walled settlement, Purple and not, saw this. The ordinary Purples saw it and were ashamed. They nerd scared that they would be blamed. Others were angry, and could not believe how terrible the wicked man's friends were acting. Some of them started to wonder "Are. they all that bad? No wonder people say such bad things about. them...;"

A writer, who was also Purple, said "I am worried. My people keep saying they are special. They take the King's money while the needy starve. They hurt children, and say that anyone who has problems with that is a Purple-hater, a murderer. Why can't they see that they are making people very angry? Have. they forgotten the past, when a few bad Purples doing bad things and bragging about being special, made all of us look bad? Where we got hurt because of it? "

He wrote of the past, and said "Please be careful. Don't stick up for bad Purples, don't steal from the King, stop saying you're better than everyone else. I'm scared something very bad will happen if Purples keep breaking the law. I'm afraid people will think we are all like that".

His message was not heard. The Purples from the walled settlement said he was hateful, and that he was worse than the Bad man.

One Purple who thought himself clever and special, although he was neither, said:

" He shows us in a one sided dark fashion.

Just follow him for a while, look at his headlines and then read the stories he is referring too.

He is pointing out Purples who hurt people very badly, who steal money and food. Why does he care if the King's money is taken?

What does he care about our children for? God loves us. We are special and chosen. If we were doing anything really bad then God would stop us, but real Purples never do bad things.

If people hate us then it is YOUR FAULT Mr Writer. You should not write about us, say that we do bad things. It is your words that make people like the Bad Man happen, so leave us alone. If you don't write about it, they won't know about it, and we'll all be happy."

The writer sighed, and just hoped that some Purples could see that talking about horrible things that some Purples do, is not what makes everyone else angry.

He hopes they'll stop lying, and saying "People hate us because God loves us the most", and see that it is the bad things themselves that upset people, especially when the Purples say "I'm special and chosen, so shut up or I'll tell everyone that you're like the Bad Man, and people will hate you"

He hoped that they would listen, and change, before the suspicion and curiosity, felt by other people about the Purples behind the wall, turned into hate of every Purple.

Jeff and Barry, long time no see! Stick around, Kats and his second-grade nonsense is wearing thin. Almost makes me miss Archie and Moshiach Neira!!

[Menachem]

Posted by: Shmarya | December 17, 2012 at 10:33 PM

Ahh.. so it's all about the victims.

That explains why you just posted a silly story of two boys smuggling cigarettes (the victims of that crime must be very grateful to you), or the countless other stories that made it's way on this blog that have no hapless victims rather just a hareidi "criminal" involved (such as your constant obsession with Rubashkin's bank fraud).

Quit trying to justify yourself. This blog is pure hate.

[Shoshi]

Jewish Encyclopedia entry about the Maharam mi-Rothenburg says:

"Another important decision of Meïr's had reference to the ransom of Jews, who were frequently imprisoned at that time for the purpose of extorting money from them. He decided that the ransomed Jews must reimburse the community in every case; and that the latter, in case of need, was not only justified in taking, but was in duty bound to take, the property of the prisoners, even against their will, for ransom. He based his decision on the ground that in such cases the ransom was not a private matter, but concerned the Jewish communities, and that the individual ought therefore to be compelled to give up his property for his release, although he personally might prefer prison to poverty."

I hope the people who are having so many fundraisers for their legal defense on the basis that it is a matter of freeing a captive Jew will have their stuff seized by the community for reimbursement.

[Jeff]

Jeff and Barry, long time no see! Stick around, Kats and his second-grade nonsense is wearing thin. Almost makes me miss Archie and Moshiach Neira!!

I just look in now and then.

The frumsters who comment on this blog are beyond belief. We need mandatory testing of intelligence, sanity and developmental level as a prerequisite for voting and reproduction.

[Yoel Mechanic]

Fascinating how discussions on these topics leads to all sorts of crypto-fascist views being aired. Its a trend that definitely should *not* be encouraged. There are crypto and not so crypto-fascist comments, sorry to say.

[Mike Kats]

Jeff: That's all you got? Demagoguery and childish insults with out any substance.

[Yoel Mechanic]

note: the reason that fascism and eugenics get connected is that to implement a eugenic policy likely would need a strong totalitarian level of control. So, those favoring a fascist government are attracted to talk of eugenics (even if they could care less about eugenics) since it leads to the sorts of controls they want. If you have a gullible public that likes eugenic rhetoric, then you will see fascists start to make those kind of appeals. Just look through history... eugenics had appeal from the late 1800's until WWII (when everyone...well, almost everyone, ahem, learned their lesson)

[Jeff]

Posted by: Mike Kats | December 18, 2012 at 11:44 AM

I wouldn't waste my time with you.

[Mike Kats]

Jaff: Or you don't have what to say.

what are you doing with your time anyway? Jerking off 3x a day

[James]

Scott,
Turd,
Every bias against another group has some "basis", since every group on this earth has people who commit bad deeds.
So yes, the Nazis and you were right that some Jews stole or maybe even raped, off course a tiny percentage but enough for evil people such as yourself and the even dumber than you clown Jancipista to generalize on the everyone else.
You are in my opinion the epitome of evil a two faced cocksucker who could even murder or rape with outrageous indignation, you have it in your genes after all.
Go to hell