Sheriff Says No Way To Chabad Rabbi’s Candle Demand

"The bottom line is this is a jail, it’s not the Ritz Carlton. If people were that concerned about it, then they should think about committing the crimes and then have to spend the time in jail."

Rabbi Menachem M. Katz

Sheriff Says No Way To Chabad Rabbi’s Candle Demand
Shmarya Rosenberg • FailedMessiah.com

A Chabad rabbi is arguing that the Palm Beach, Florida County Jail should allow inmates to light a Hanukkah menorah using real wax or oil candles instead of electric lights, but the county’s sheriff will have none of it.

"Even if it's a little tiny candle, it doesn't take much to start a fire. A prisoner could put it on to a deputy, just out of spite. There is just a lot of things that could happen there,” Palm Beach County Sheriff Ric Bradshaw told WPTV.

But Rabbi Menachem Katz of Chabad’s Aleph Institute, which ministers to prisoners, disagrees.

"It can be done in a safe manner along as there is a corrections officer in the room and a fire extinguisher and that is what is done in other county jails.…We are hoping that a miracle will happen here and that Palm Beach County officials will come around and allow the Jewish inmates to observe Hanukkah in an appropriate way” Katz told WPTV.

Sheriff Bradshaw will have none of it.

"The bottom line is this is a jail,” the lawman told WPTV, “it’s not the Ritz Carlton. If people were that concerned about it, then they should think about committing the crimes and then have to spend the time in jail."

Comments

[Jacob]

An electric menorah can be quite dangerous if it is outfitted with fragile glass bulbs.

[esther lubinsky]

full support for this mr bradshaw.do the crime and get caught do the time this is the bottom line.. one is not sent to prison as a funny joke.its meant to be a PUNIShMENT. THESE FRUNMMA MUST LEARN THAT LESSON. aleph is full of good deeds meantime the rabbis etc take out and bring in all sorts of messages whereby thses religous scum can still in some way control their cow -like wives and keep them coward.

[Atheodox Jew]

Why not just have a Jewish chaplain light for everyone, and prisoners concerned with Halacha can contribute a prutah. Then they go back to their cells.

Is it "more preferred" to light individually? Yes. But it's also "more preferred" to not land yourself in jail!

[Ari]

"The bottom line is this is a jail,”

That right is enough said.

[Bas Melech]

"The bottom line is this is a jail,” the lawman told WPTV, “it’s not the Ritz Carlton. If people were that concerned about it, then they should think about committing the crimes and then have to spend the time in jail."

Well saud. Chasidic and charedi Jews have no understanding what jail and prison are.

At the same time, I do support reasonable religious freedoms, such as @Atheodox who wrote that a chaplain can light for all Jewish inmates. Lighting candles poses the danger of possible fire..

Also, I support kosher meals. Inmates should be served universally accepted supervisions like O-U and not chasidic ones. Also, the inmates shouldn't demand
cholov yisroel.

Why is the brocho shelo osani oved said after release from incarceration? Simply because one cannot do all the mitzvos.

[Yosef ben Matitya]

Why not just have a Jewish chaplain light for everyone, and prisoners concerned with Halacha can contribute a prutah. Then they go back to their cells.
Atheodox Jew,
that would be a good jewish solution. but that kat minoos member, is not after a solution of any sort, jewish or otherwise. the minim are after being a pain in the butt to the whole usiverse.

[WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar]

Satmar and Chabad Lubavitch have officially become criminal organizations.

[Pelegesh]

never ceases to amaze me how assbackwards this religion has become.

[Ari]

"Satmar and Chabad Lubavitch have officially become criminal organizations."
Posted by: WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar

www.chabad-mafia.com/

[No_Light]

+1 to WSC.

Hi btw, have you been on sabbatical?

[Alter Kocker]

How long does law enforcement have to kowtow to the orthodox. Do the crime, do the time AND the freedoms you enjoyed on the outside? Forget them until you get out.

No candles, tallesim, tefillin, etc etc etc. What else do you want in jail, a shabbos goy to turn on the lights and tear your toilet paper? And please, don't call in your rabbi every time you move your bowels, you are making yourselves look like crybabies.

[rebitzman]

The can send me a pua each to buy a share of my menorah - that fulfills the mitzvah and I get rich.

I know we're talking about a penny each - but once all these guys that SHOULD be in jail ARE in jail...............

[Eli, what me messiah?]

I commend Chabad for being so proactive!

thinking of their jail conditions even before they commit the crime and get arrested.

phew! that's real planning!

[d]

those cult/ lubavitchers sect members are out of it . they want to stick their neck every where they can .

jail is a big place for a chabad/lubavitch . they populate jail like worms . they cost too much to the tax payers .

the department of jails should send the bills to the ' rebbe ' to pay for it .
chabad is richer than the state .

why do we have to pay for them ?

[flatearth]

d - we pay for them because they can turn an election at the local and state levels.

[A Yid]

The bottom line is : "It can be done in a safe manner along as there is a corrections officer in the room and a fire extinguisher and that is what is done in other county jails."
If this is safely done everywhere else the sherif refusing to allow it there is violating
their rights under RLUIPA and other relevant laws and should e sued to allow it.

[d]

@flatearth,
no, you don't pay for anything . you, ppl are tax free . property tax free { that's how chabad can buy multi million $ properties ,bc you don't pat taxes on the property} , PLUS you don't pay a penny on the millions 'donations' you receive yearly . that' why you live like kings and not have to worry about anything . you, ppl , live peace minded , BUT EXTORK PPL ANY CHANCE YOU GET , AND DO NOT HELP ANYONE , NEVER , when ppl in need seek your help. you, chabad ppl ONLY HELP PPL OF YOUR OWN KIND . anyone else who is NOT CHABAD , DO NOT COUNT .

i know chabad for 35 years . nothing have changed . the decades go by, you are still the same .

do not lie . i don't like liars .you, chabad ppl are ALL LIARS . i could not find just one that's better . you are all the same .

and do not use that stupid example of 'turning an electionat local and state level'.... YOU ARE NOT THAT NUMEROUS TO DO THAT . the only ethnic group TODAY who can turn an election .....' at the local and state levels '.... are the black ppl .
they are more numerous in numbers and their votes are what will make ' turn an election '...

you , chabad and the jewish ppl should reproduce by millions to get a chance to turn an election . that's the only way .

[flatearth]

d -

I think you miss-read me...

I said "we - meaning us working tax payers" and "they - being the Satmar & Skevre"

I agree with everything you posted.

[flatearth]

d -

Except the turning an election, Skevre easily has enough votes to sway elections in Rockland County. A difference of about 800 votes was all it took to vote in our "hands off new square" prosecutor.

[Sarek]

("Candle in the Wind", John/Taupin)

Goodbye Chanukah
Though I never lit you at all
You had fried potato latkes
And tasty sufganiyot
Your miracles did call
And they whispered into my brain
But when I got the kosher meal
I don’t like latkes with chrain

And it seems to me that I live my life
Like a menorah in the jail
Never able to kindle you
I tried to no avail
And I would have liked to celebrate you
But I was an inmate
The 8 day miracle came and went
The sheriff was irate.

Loneliness is tough
I’ve become my cellmate’s bitch.
It’s tough being the only Jew in jail
I’ve learned to hate the snitch
My lawyer’s filed a writ
I guess I did the crime
But I want special privs
I really don’t want to do the time

And it seems to me that I live my life
Like a menorah in the jail
Never able to kindle you
I tried to no avail
And I would have liked to celebrate you
But I was an inmate
The 8 day miracle came and went
The sheriff was irate.

Goodbye Chanukah
Though I never lit you at all
The eight day miracle came and went
So I will sit and bawl.
Goodbye Chanukah
I’ll spin the dreidel and hope it lands on shin
Maybe Chabad will bring me chocolate gelt
I’ll give the dreidel another spin

And it seems to me that I live my life
Like a menorah in the jail
Never able to kindle you
I tried to no avail
And I would have liked to celebrate you
But I was an inmate
The 8 day miracle came and went
The sheriff was irate.

[WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar]

Hello all,
I had a long streak of working 14 hour days, so not much time or energy to post any comments.
Hope everyone enjoys the final two nights of Chanukah, and a Gutten Shabbos to all.

And if you are a criminal in prison, be lucky to even have a plastic electric menorah to look at. Repent from your criminal ways, ask forgiveness of your victims, and find good mentors and advisors to move forward with your life.
Rabbis are NOT what you need in your life. They are not there for YOU; they are there for their own selfish purposes, either to get money from your family, or to pave the way for their fellow hasidic criminals so that they will have it easier in prison when they get arrested.

[Theory:]

Not everyone encarcerated person is guilty of a crime. Not every encarcerated person has even stood trial. Should Jacon Ostreicher be rightfully denied the opportunity to participate in a chanukah menorah lighting simply because he is in jail? Should everyone else?

[WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar]

Theory, you are an idiot.

Everyone in prison claims they are innocent. They are ALL guilty. And yeah, blah blah blah, you will name one in a million who later wins an appeal and gets off on a technicality.

Everyone in prison has stood trial or agreed to some plea deal in which they must serve time in prison, or if they are awaiting trial, they remain in jail if they can't make bail.

Ostreicher is in a foreign prison. The rules of that country apply. Direct your complaints there.

Even in America, you can observe your religion in prison, but you cannot expect to do so with all the bells, whistles, and trimmings.
You can watch a prison chaplain light an electric menorah. You may not be allowed to do the lighting yourself. Prison guards and wardens are not warm fuzzy idealists who trust anything you say or do. Not holy enough for you? Don't want to say the blessing on electric candles? Too bad. It will have to do until you are freed.

You frumma claim that electricity is like fire, and so you won't flip a switch on Shabbos, so why aren't electric Chanukah lights good enough for you? Isn't Chanukah electricity also a type of fire?

[Theory:]

WSK wrote:...electricity is like fire, and so you won't flip a switch on Shabbos, so why aren't electric Chanukah lights good enough...

Hilchos Chanukah were determined thousands of years after Hilchos Shabbos, and the latter is subject to the former -- not the other way around.

Furthermore, a chaplain? Why not say "attend church since you're in jail, its the closest thing to shul you're gonna get".

[Shmarya]

Hilchos Chanukah were determined thousands of years after Hilchos Shabbos…

Posted by: Theory: | December 15, 2012 at 06:24 PM

Idiot.

Hanukkah happened 2200 years ago.

The Torah was given approximately 3300 years ago.

Where are the "thousands" of years, even in your idiotic conception of history and halakha?

[Theory:]

Posted by: Shmarya | December 15, 2012 at 07:02 PM :Hanukkah happened 2200 years ago. The Torah was given approximately 3300 years ago.

Thousand[s] was hyperbole -- a literary mechanism intended to convey ideas such as much, a lot, way before way before.

Non-hyperbole: The rules pertaining to Shabbos precede and are not subject to the rules pertaining to Channukah.

[Shmarya]

…Non-hyperbole: The rules pertaining to Shabbos precede and are not subject to the rules pertaining to Channukah.

Posted by: Theory: | December 15, 2012 at 08:00 PM

Please.

WSC's point was clear.

If electricity is, as your rabbis say, fire, then why isn't it good enough to use an electric menorah for Hanukkah?

Your answer, besides its remarkable stupidity over dating which you know try to hide, is also idiotic, as even a glace at the poskim who dealt with these issues shows.

Go troll somewhere else, little boy.

[Theory:]

Posted by: Shmarya | December 15, 2012 at 08:07 PM If electricity is, as your rabbis say, fire, then why isn't it good enough to use an electric menorah for Hanukkah?

I am not stating what is or what is not halacha. I am stating that the argument that someone does not somehow deserve to observe the jewish religion simply because he or she is encarcerated is absurd. This is the basis behind most of the commentators on this post: "don't do the crime, then you can observe chanukkah the way you see fit". In reality, what they are saying is "don't become encarcerated, then you'll be able to observe chanukkah the way you see fit" while becoming encarcerated is not completely under the control of the individual.

[Shmarya]

I am not stating what is or what is not halacha. I am stating that the argument that someone does not somehow deserve to observe the jewish religion simply because he or she is encarcerated is absurd. This is the basis behind most of the commentators on this post: "don't do the crime, then you can observe chanukkah the way you see fit". In reality, what they are saying is "don't become encarcerated, then you'll be able to observe chanukkah the way you see fit" while becoming encarcerated is not completely under the control of the individual.

Posted by: Theory: | December 15, 2012 at 08:24 PM

Then your response to WSK was inappropriate.

And, quite frankly, the law does not allow inmates to freely practice religion. It allows them to practice their religions freely, as long as there is no counter-indicating factor regarding control of the prison and safety of the other inmates and the staff.

Your argument, such that it is, was both disingenuous and moot.

[Theory:]

Posted by: Shmarya | December 15, 2012 at 08:33 PM

...the law does not allow inmates to freely practice religion.

Then it is incumbent upon us to fix this. Support encarcerated jews lighting menoros now! B"H

[Shmarya]

"...the law does not allow inmates to freely practice religion."

Then it is incumbent upon us to fix this. Support encarcerated jews lighting menoros now! B"H

Posted by: Theory: | December 15, 2012 at 08:51 PM

Your trolling just ended, little man. Toddle off.

[WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar]

Inmates cannot freely practice anything.

And in the military, and even in hospitals here in the NY/NJ area, you sometimes get whatever chaplain is on duty, even if it's not your religion, and the chaplain of your faith is unavailable.

I heard a lecture from that well known Lubavitcher military chaplain, and he spoke of how he performed an Easter Sunrise service for Catholic soldiers in Iraq during the first Iraq war, because he was the only chaplain available that day.

[shulem uber alles]

???he performed an Easter Sunrise service -- priests are given sacraments and endowed with certain powers. I cant believe the catholic soldiers accepted that from a rabbi.