Most Israelis, Even Right Wing Israelis, Would Divide Jerusalem For Peace

The polls show that a majority of Likud-Beiteinu and the even farther right Habayit Hayehudi voters would support a peace deal establishing a demilitarized Palestinian state based on the 1967 borders if Israel was allowed to retain major West Bank settlement blocs and Jerusalem was divided.

Most Israelis, Even Right Wing Israelis, Would Divide Jerusalem For Peace
Shmarya Rosenberg • Failedmessiah.com

Two polls conducted by different Israeli pollsters but asking exactly the same question returned stunning results that tell much about most Israelis’ desires for peace.

The polls were both paid for by the Washington D.C.-based S. Daniel Abraham Center for Middle East Peace but were conducted by Israeli pollsters Mina Tzemach (Dahaf) and Rafi Smith.

The polls show that a majority of Likud-Beiteinu and the even farther right Habayit Hayehudi voters would support a peace deal establishing a demilitarized Palestinian state based on the 1967 borders if Israel was allowed to retain major West Bank settlement blocs and Jerusalem was divided, Ha’aretz reported.

Both polls also found that two thirds of all Israelis regardless of political affiliation would support such an agreement.

The question asked those polled was as follows:

“If the government of Israel presented a public referendum on a peace agreement that would end the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, to be implemented only after the Palestinians held up all the obligations at their end, especially the war on terror, and the United States approved of the agreement, would you support it or not?”

The principles of the supposed agreement were as follows:

• Two states - Israel for the Jewish people and Palestine for the Palestinians

• Palestinian refugees having the right to return only to their new country

• The Palestinian state would be demilitarized and its boundaries would be based on the 1967 lines with exchanges of equal-sized territory. Those exchanges would take into consideration Israel's security needs and would retain the large settlement blocs in Israeli hands.

• Jewish Jerusalem would be under Israeli sovereignty

• Arab neighborhoods of Jerusalem would be under Palestinian sovereignty.

• The Old City of Jerusalem would be under neither side's sovereignty, but rather would be administered jointly by Israel, the Palestinians and the United States.

• The holy places would remain under religious sovereignty as they are now.

Results by specific pollster

Dahaf

Likud-Beiteinu:   Support 57%; Oppose 25%.
Habayit Hayehudi: Support 57%; Oppose 25%.

Rafi Smith

Likud-Beiteinu:     Support 58%; Oppose 34%.
Habayit Hayehudi: Support 53%; Oppose 43%.

Habayit Hayehudi respondents to the Dahaf poll, 53 percent said they would support such an agreement and 43 percent said they would not.

General public without regard to political party

Dahaf

Support 67%; oppose 21%.

Rafi Smith

Support 68%; oppose 25%.

When the supposed agreement was augmented by improvements like defense agreements with the United States, the disarmament of Hamas and an end to its rule over Gaza, and Arab states’ willingness to have full diplomatic relations with Israel, the general public’s acceptance of the supposed agreement reportedly rose to 75% in the Dahaf poll and 80% in the Smith poll.

The polls shatter the idea that many right of center Israeli voters see the West Bank settlements in religious or idealogical terms, and show that if Israel had a willing peace partner, peace could be possible.

It also appears to show that the views held by Greater Israel ideologues like Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, the Hilltop Youth and their rabbis, and the “wholeness” of the Land of Israel theology of the Chabad movement has little actual traction outside the most extreme fringes of Israeli society.

Comments

[Garnel Ironheart]

Shmarya, asking "Would you divide Jerusalem in exchange for a genuine peace deal that the Arabs would agree to and honestly implement" is like inviting you to dinner. It's easy because you know the other side will say "no" every time.

[Ira]

Garnel is right. The Arabs will never agree to a demilitarized state; they will never agree any Jews in their territory; they will never give up the so-called right of return, and they will never honestly implement anything. The question is silly, but there is no reason to disagree. Why not ask people if they would be willing to sit home and learn torah all day if someone else were supporting them the rest of their lives? They may find that an astonishing number of secular and even athiest Israelis will say yes as well!

[rebitzman]

Let's redo the survey to read "In order to guarantee a lasting peace every Palestinian will need to be diriven into the sea - will you drive the bus?"

Suspect you'd get similar numbers.

It's all pretty meaningless - until we have a partner willing to genuinely discuss what a state of peace would look like, these are just words. As long as Hamas (and their all or nothing charter) remains in the picture - no leader on the other side would DARE cut a deal with Israel.

[ej]

OFF TOPIC...why don't you carry a piece on Rita Levi Montalcini who passed away at 103? Here is a woman who made great contributions to science. Even VIN carried the Haaretz obit with an additional photo of the funeral.

Sometimes there are news items that are inspiring which help everyone to carry on during darker times. Jewish life is more than charedi crime and perversions, and hopefully your blog can reflect the positive aspects as well.

[Rocky]

ej: If you want to read another inspiring story about a successful self made Jewish businessman, Google Seymour Schulich. Recent articles about him have appeared in the (Toronto) Globe and Mail and in Haaretz. His philanthropic endevors in the past decade put the establishment WASP families in Canada to shame.

[Yoel Mechanic]

When it comes to interpreting poll data, I would be careful about projecting attitudes onto the data. Without offering extensive alternatives in the poll in addition to polling for mushiness factors how can one go beyond guesswork and wishful thinking to get deeply held attitudes? There are other ways to speculate as to the right wing attitudes but a circumspect analysis would be more in the domain of attempting to be "objective"

[Lubavitchers are Christians]

I suspect Bibi would give back the entire Jerusalem in exchange for a real genuine peace with the Palestinians.

The problem is that the Palestinians will never agree to peace.

And the right wing is absolutely correct on that one. All the wishfull thinking on the left won't change reality.

[FM Fan]

S. Danny Abraham is one of the biggest leftists around.

The former owner of Slim Fast, he has more money than he knows what to do with.

So he's trying to influence policy with fake polls.

Danny, give it up already.

[David]

People need to stop thinking that peace with the Arabs is possible under any reasonable circumstances. It is only possible when they have murdered every last one of us.

One needs to stop applying Western standards of behavior to Arabs. Whist in the West we see a preparedness to "negotiate and compromise" as strengths, in Arab culture these are seen as weaknesses. The only language they understand is strength or force.

[Suzanne]

I don't believe these survey at all. I think that the majority of Israelis want Jerusalem to remain the undivided capitol of Israel forever.

[zionist goy]

Give up the inheritance of Hashem? Jerusalem; a cup of trembling to the nations.... the whole jewish state will be at grave peril if these pols ever agree to that regardless of any type of "majority" agreeing to it. I hope that Israeli jews continue to consolidate thier gains and plans for the the Capitol.Though Israelis are desperate for a breakthrough, dramatic concessions like this will never offer long term security.why concede anything? It is well known that Palestinians (who live peaceably) fare better in Israel than anywhere else in the arab world.

[Jeff]

I find this very encouraging, but the conservative evangelicals who've commandeered political dialogue in this country would never agree to it (see zionist goy's comment), and unfortunately, Israel is still dependent upon US foreign aid.

[Yoel Mechanic]

I've seen many high school "graduates", even from public school who don't really know what percentages are (nor fractions, nor decimals, nor able to use a yard stick, nor able to use a protractor, nor able to do arithmetic with positive or negative numbers). Kol V'Chomer there are Yeshivah graduates lacking these skills. So how are they be expected to understand what these polls mean?

I've seen journalists taking sample proportions, and then compare percentages as ratios. How can they be expected to understand what statistics mean?

Well, education in analytic, numeric, and data as well as language skills is what is needed.

Now for my customary plug for community college: Those who are Yeshivah educated are likely to lack these analytic and language skills. Those sorts of Yeshivahs should refrain from granting a high school diploma so their graduates can qualify for the FREE GED classes, and adult education that will get them ready for community college. Once ready for community college, then take the GED, and then enroll in the credit classes. This should be considered standard procedure for all Yeshivah graduates. After 2 or more years at community college you will have a broader and more balanced derech for your Torah life.

Anyone who has been seriously involved in community colleges, particularly inner-city ones will know these are not party schools, and the environment will not be a social challenge. If you want to be married before attending, fine, that is also another strategy.

Bottom line: The adult education PRE-CREDIT classes are often FREE. Then the college-credit classes (like for an associates degree) are relatively inexpensive but with financial aid might come out to be free or close to free.

In case you are curious: there are whole inner city school systems where the cumulative drop out rate is 50%. Of those who do graduate, the vast majority will lack the analytic skills I mentioned, and will be classified as "not-college-ready", and require remediation before entry into credit classes at a community college. Do you think the Yeshivahs are doing any better as far as math education?