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December 07, 2012

If Weberman Is Found Guilty, Satmar Must Deal With Its Enabling Problem

Nechemya Weberman court 11-28-2012 closeup"If the jury finds [Rabbi Nechemya] Weberman guilty — now that lawyers have wrapped their case — the leaders of the insular Satmar Hasidic sect to which he belongs must ask themselves the same questions that dogged the Catholic Church in the wake of its own pedophilia scandals."

Nechemya Weberman court 11-28-2012 closeup
Rabbi Nechemya Weberman

Joanna Molloy writes in the NY Daily News:

…If the jury finds Weberman guilty — now that lawyers have wrapped their case — the leaders of the insular Satmar Hasidic sect to which he belongs must ask themselves the same questions that dogged the Catholic Church in the wake of its own pedophilia scandals.

They must ask, did we enable him? Do our methods of reigning in rebellious young girls run counter to American law? Do we deny these girls freedoms they are entitled to, treating them as prisoners despite more than a century of hard-fought victories by women’s rights activists?

Instead, it seems this Williamsburg-based sect is operating under its own rules, some of which run counter to the law.…

 Her counselor’s qualifications? He had been a worker in a pants factory, after leaving school in the 11th grade.

Oh, and he had also been a driver, albeit for the sect’s then-Grand Rebbe Moshe Teitelbaum.

Weberman wasn’t a licensed therapist at all.

But that was considered a positive thing, since ultra-Orthodox Jews believe any Jewish person who informs police or government agencies about a fellow Jew is a loathed informant, a “moser.”

Licensed therapists are required by law to report child molestation and domestic violence incidents.

As a nonlicensed therapist, Weberman could keep anything he heard within the Satmar community to himself.…

Comments

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they're not going to change a thing

They'll make a music video to support him, just like for the drug mules busted in Japan.

When he gets out of jail, he will be welcomed in Monsey.

They think of themselfs as the perfect beings that are holy,it is impossible for their rebbe or followers to acknowledge that they are mortals it would negate their whole existance since their followers will abandon them if you cant acknowledge that you have faults you will never change this is what it all maounts to

So he is a first class dropout, and he helps girls not dropout, WOW thats funny. Shmarya, you should do a reaserch piece on this scum bags life.

Flatearth: Don't forget Baltimore; we always end up with these types here.

It seems that your problem is not with molestation just you hate our culture in general, Thanks for showing your face.
I understand that we need to examine our hesitation of going to authorities, But you should examine your way that produces Murder’s, child Killer’s, violent Rapist, Thieves (Madoof, Goldman Sachs and Lehman Brother’s), and a culture of satisfaction thru pills and drugs.

If........................

I believe the jury remains out on that one. Literally.

Mike Kats--With all that you mentioned child killers violent rapists, you are just as bad if not worse then those lowlifes you keep bringing

What do we do of he gets off? (um, bad wording but you know what I mean)

Rebitzman: You are just as close minded as the Chasidim who believe 100% he is innocent, The "only" difference, the Chasidim believe this due to (blind)loyalty and you because of blind) hate to Chasidim

jancsibacsi: Gibberish without substance – as always

"Satmar Must Deal With Its Enabling Problem"
true, but practically, because their hands are tied by so many halokhos and pseudo halokhos and chumros they fabricated, they are so far from real judaism, that the only solution for them is to dismantle and cease to exist, as a religious grouping.

They must ask, did we enable him? Do our methods of reigning in rebellious young girls run counter to American law? Do we deny these girls freedoms they are entitled to, treating them as prisoners despite more than a century of hard-fought victories by women’s rights activists?

What a difference a trial makes. Up until now all we heard were boys being molested by men. Now it is all about girls. The media's lens directs us what to see, how to think and what should be important to us.

Fortunately the media has a very short memory and within a short time must move on to the next tragedy. Unfortunately there is no shortage. Simply go to Google News and put in any criminal phrase in the search line and be prepared to be shocked.

Mike Kats - So who is righteous enough to reprove the Satmar? Anyone? No, or course not. You practice al Taqqiya like an Arab and hate Israel just as much. You are a sodomite pig and may Hashem punish you for your insolence.

Mike Kats-You dont see youreself who you are the nonsense youre spewing here ,clear youre own house first then you can tell others who do live their lifes ,amongst the hassidim you have the lowest of the low and your leaders just turn the other cheek shame on you the whole world is watching this trial .

@Mike Kats

You are able to determine that I am closed minded because I (correctly) point out that the jury is literally out (deliberating) and that as of yet no one has been convicted of anything?

You need help - please seek it from a LICENSED counselor.

To all of you that touched a nerve, let me say it again. I just point out to the author, with all our faults (including covering up molesters) our way is still batter then the secular world because we don’t produce all of mentioned above.

If you disagree please give me a substantive argument to respond, if not you are all as close minded and blindly loyal to your way as the Chasidim are to their way (with much more hate in your eyes).

Rebitzman: Your context made me believe of your certainty of guilt, I’m sorry

Mike Kats -- I'll come out and say it clear as day: I HATE YOUR FUCKING CULTURE!

I don't consider you or your kind to be Jewish. Sheigitz Arois!

danny: At least your honest, spoken like a true Nazi.

Mike Kats -You say we are as closed minded as the hassidim are and you write because we dont produce all of the mentioned above so youre are you a chussid or not,saying you are just as closed minded as them you cant have it both be a chussid and not be a chussid

Your way is inferior to the secular world since you accomplish NOTHING in terms of bettering mankind. Name one thing that anyone from Satmar has done to benefit humanity.

Your cult simply saps from other hardworking people.

For example: Section 8 housing, running your schools on the public dole, a-whoring in Atlantic City, cheating on your taxes, by flouting Jewish law (remember running down the Rebbe of Klausenberg?) and the traditions that have come from it.

Dressing yourselves up in the idiotic garb that you wear (and that does NOT come from anywhere in Torah) and speaking a distorted version of Hebrew does not make you "holy".

Your world produces its own kind of corruption and contributes nothing whatsoever to humanity at large.


Joel Teitlebaum (may his name be soon erased) was a coward and a traitor to his people.

The issue is not with Satmar or the Chasisdic community. Sexual abuse occurs across the board, in all cultures, and has since the begining of time. However, perpetrators must be dealt with very harshly, according to the letter of the law-with NO allowances for their position in their community. In addition, victims need to be fully validated and supported in accordance with human kindness and professionalism. At SOVRI-Beth Israel, we understand that, and our hotline is here to assist victims in various aspects. Our hotline is staffed by trained advocates and supervised by licensed therapists. We can be reached at 888-613-1613; Mon-Thurs from 9-7, and Fri. 9-2

Mike Kats in cowardice wrote:
danny: At least your honest, spoken like a true Nazi.


I reply:
Always whining about Nazis aren't you. When you've lost an argument, you pull the Nazi card. Now that's original. Your mind is pretty dull.

it seems you actually think that Orthodox Licensed therapists report the stuff they are supposed to report when it comes to these issues?

Dream on.

Orthodox Jews (and probably orthodox believers of ANY religion) should be banned from being psychotherapists. Period. 99% of the psychological problems (I mean depression, anxiety, etc. - not sickos like Weberman, but maybe even some of those!) in the Haredi world come from the fact that they are Haredi and live according to that lifestyle.

Been there. Done that.

An orthodox therapist would NEVER have helped me understand that the first step to getting better was to get my ass out of Boro Park.

It took alot of sacrifice and still isn't easy but at least I can breathe.

Where one person sees "hesitation of going to authorities" I see RICO. I suppose it is a step in the right direction that they even recognize the "authorities" and shows more than enabling. It shows knowledge of right and wrong and the clear choice to do the wrong thing. Repeatedly and in concert.

Reporter Molloy sounds like she's writing a 7th grade journalism piece. Satmer is never going to stop their way of life performing, promoting and hiding fraud, coercion, spousal and child abuse, imprisonment. This is their life. They don't have the capability to exist any other way.

What's all this about drugs and pills? I've been busy. Did I miss something?

I’m modern orthodox but I have Chasidic friends and secular friends, Jews and non-Jews. I don’t hate anybody or anything. The only think I hate is extremism on all sites, because extremism is evil and I hate evil.
Thru out the ages, all wars and mass murders were due to extremism. Sometimes from religious leader’s (like Bin-ladin and others, and the inquisition in the 14th century) and sometimes from Atheist (like Stalin) and sometimes from Pagan’s (like Hitler).
If you can’t go between the lines and see the good and bad, the truth and faults in a person, group or race then you are an extremist.

Betty Sebrow: Totely agree

R. Wisler:
As I said before, our main accomplishment to society was to create a way of life that does not produce: murders, violent rapist, drug addicts and thieves like Madof and Goldman Sachs.
We have been doing this for 3300 years, like John Adams said: “I will insist the Hebrews have [contributed] more to civilize men than any other nation", - at that time (1800) 99% of Jews were Shomri Shobos.

More from John Adams:

“I will insist the Hebrews have [contributed] more to civilize men than any other nation. If I was an atheist and believed in blind eternal fate, I should still believe that fate had ordained the Jews to be the most essential instrument for civilizing the nations ...

They are the most glorious nation that ever inhabited this Earth. The Romans and their empire were but a bubble in comparison to the Jews. They have given religion to three-quarters of the globe and have influenced the affairs of mankind more and more happily than any other nation, ancient or modern.”

Mike Kats -

what does adams statement on jews have to do with satmar culture?? jews have contributed to the betterment of the world far greater than their numbers. and that continues amongst NON-CHAREDI jews. OTOH charedism contribute nothing to society, and is instead a huge drain. satmar in particular is by design, a factory to produce english illiterates and math innumerates who are unable to succeed in modern society save for a few business owners who themselves are facing tremendous hurdles in dealing with competition brought about by the internet and the flattening of the earth.
your use of madoff as an example of secular jews is outrageous. every group of humans has its thieves, rapists and murderers. yet you didnt mention the secular jews who saved millions of lives and advanced every field of science. how many lives did salk and sabin directly save? millions.
charedism produces nothing of value and requires much legal aid and fraudulent activity to sustain itself. if there were no such programs as sec.8, food stamps, welfare,medicaid etc.. the community would disappear in 2 generations due to starvation and disease.
secular jews are a net huge benefit to society, albeit with a few bad apples. and these bad actors are scorned and despised by their communities. charedim are a huge detriment to society and its bad actors are permitted to continue their crimes with communal support. on the rare occasion that theyre caught, their convicts are often feted like heroes upon release.
MO has had more than its share of con-artists and fraudsters. i personally know quite a few. and if you think most non-frum are involved in pills and drugs, youre not as wordly as youd like to think.
and one more thing...hitler was a christian and stalins evil was not connected to his atheism.

If you can’t go between the lines and see the good and bad, the truth and faults in a person, group or race then you are an extremist.


Posted by: Mike Kats | December 07, 2012 at 12:01 PM

what a pathetic attempt at something akin to moral relativism.
can you describe the "good" of nazism? am i an extremist for considering it evil?

Betty, good about the hotline; bad that it keeps banker's hours. The problem with hotlines is that they are too often managed for the ease of the organization than the needs of the probable callers.

Fully validate and support these victims when they need it, not when you want to give it to them.

If you read Admas writing you will see he is referring to the Jewish religion and its values, and as i said before in 1800 99% of Jews were orthodox like Satmer (without the Shtrimel and long payes).

Of course many secular Jews contributed a lot to society, I just point it out there bad apples everywhere not just by casidim as many of this sites reader's belive

Posted by: Mike Kats | December 07, 2012 at 12:18 PM,
A few points,

The current Chasidic or even litvish Judaism is not what was the original Hebrew law or customs. If you make a real examination of biblical law, and being honest to yourself you will not recognize original Hebrews customs and laws with today’s Halakha.

The polygamist religious leader Warren Jeffs who was found guilty of child rape, also had built a community which was free of other violent crimes but rape, so arguing that because on average orthodox Jews are not as violent as other religious communities is wrong on two points. One molestation and rape of children is a form of murder and maiming the sprit. Two it is well documented that you currently have enough orthodox Jews in prison that you could build a yeshiva wing in prison.

Finally, any extreme view is dangerous to the well-being on others, and Judaism is no exception.

Hitler in his personal belive was not a Christen and didnt belive in Jesus, he killed Johva witness as well and dispised the pope. He was a Pagen - check it out

2As I said before, our main accomplishment to society was to create a way of life that does not produce: murders, violent rapist, drug addicts and thieves like Madof and Goldman Sachs. @Mike Katz

Satmar and other ultra orthodox have the same criminals in their community too.

Without extremism there is no Nazism, You may be extreme to extremism. (Being an extreme moderate is also extremism).

Joe Field: Satmer is exactly like most Jews of the 18 century (Adams) (except the shtrimel and payoes)

How Many frum Jews are in jail because of rape? 2? - 5? In the last 60 years.

Mike Kats
If you can’t go between the lines and see the good and bad, the truth and faults in a person, group or race then you are an extremist.
You are describing youreself exactly but youre too thick to understand it

Mike Kats -

the Wehrmacht had "Gott mit uns "(meaning God with us) on their belt buckles.

anyway, you didnt answer my question. here it is again.

can you describe the "good" of nazism? am i an extremist for considering it evil?

Satmer is exactly like most Jews of the 18 century

no theyre not. jews used to be self-sufficient. satmar are parasites who require taxpayer funds-legal and illegal- to exist.

ah-pee-chorus:

The simple answer is no your are not, because there is no good in extremism and Nazis are extreme.

I should say violent extremist (not just extreme in thought).

all it will take when webberman is found guilty is the lawsuit against UTA and the school for forcing them to him as an ulicencesd therapy


the only language they understand is when it costs them money

ah-pee-chorus: You are proving my point, The Jew hatters of the the 18th century (and the Jew hatters of today) say the same thing that we are pa... etc.


Mike Kats -

do you think satmar are extreme?

a man was accused of raping a 12 year old for years and maybe many others. 6 more that we know of spoke to prosecutors. how did THE SATMAR COMMUNITY respond? they held massive fundraising and support meetings for weberman. nothing for the girl. its LEADER, the grand rabbi refers to her as the danger, and his followers agree. they are a vile community of extremists. pointing that out does not make one extreme. you are confused. in fact you are an extreme apologist.


and whether jew-haters say it or not, a lifestyle DESIGNED to require sustenance from its host is in fact parasitism. you may not like hearing it, but its true.

Mike Kats --If you dont see the obvious that the satmerer sect is a sick cult then you are very very deluded and disturbed its a no brainer.

"I said before, our main accomplishment to society was to create a way of life that does not produce: violent rapist"

Is there such a thing as a non violent rapist???

I spoke to many satmer's and they told me the reason they are standing up for Webarman because they belive he is innocent. They maybe wrong but they will never stand up for someone who is defiantly guilty. They gave me 2 names of molester's (not rapist) who are in jail with the support of the comunty

ah-pee-chorus: The same goes to the 47% of America (Romney) and to O. Wall st movement.

devorah:statutory rape

Posted by: Mike Kats | December 07, 2012 at 01:01 PM

It is self-evident, that you don’t anything about Hitler besides Googled a few phases and Wallah you are an expert.

Joe: Ask away

mike kats , having his 15 minutes of fame. and lots of replies to his perception of jewish dogma. Probably a closet professor of religious studies in the university of Self worth. a nnobody actually and of no importance.To be ignored.

ah-pee-chorus: BTW there are many successful Orthodox and Satmer's who pay 100's of millions in taxes (just go to B&H and many more), and they save a lot of money for the government with the private schools and more.

Mike Kats:

If you were receiving therapy from Weberman and he instructed you to blow him, would you do it?

elwerthy barak: spoken like a thru closed minded Chasid, No substance just trowing out words (which is to the point - I admit).

If Weberman gets the book thrown at him the first thing that will happen is that Satmar will scream "antisemitism" all over even though the alleged victim is also Jewish. They'll keep doing it until the reporters go away so they can get back to their whitewashed, cloistered existence. They have no desire to change because there is too much blind devotion to the Satmar rebbe. The children need to be educated, that is step #1. Anyone with a decent education would be quick to shun the utter lunacy that is Rabbi Teitelbaum.

We will fix our problem's (including zero tolerance for molester's) but we will never change our core believes (we can have a diffident debate in the logic of our believes and why we think its true). Our core believe system is for 3300 years old, and i believe in the Torah who rightfully prophesied 1000's of years ago that the teachings of Moses will never be forgotten. And the Orthodox are the only one who follow his teachings literally.

Mike Katz

It is amusing how you relish your fifteen seconds of fame, but let me extinguish yourself importance, Adam didn’t talk about the current (time of his writing) he was referring to the historical Hebrews. As a religious person Adam did recognized the Hebrew is indeed the father to the three largest religious groups. Nevertheless, all through history, religion itself is the cause of hate, strife, and mass murder, yes you will find others who killed for other reason, but religion, by far are the single worst culprit.

Finally, todays Modern Orthodox, is yesteryears Orthodox and yesteryear’s Orthodox is yesteryear’s Satmer and Satmer is just plan “NUTS” and if your community don’t change, by next generation, you all will be “NUTS”

And to some of you I will leave you with a quote from Einstein (Yahho): Fanatic Atheist

And the Orthodox are the only one who follow his teachings literally.

Which Orthodox? Belz, Bobov, Boston, Boyan, Breslov, Chabad Lubavitch, Ger, Karlin, Munkacz, Pittsburg, Puppa, Satmar, or Vizhnitz?

If Moshe Rabbeinu were to return to earth today and watch how you guys are practicing Judaism, he would not have the slightest idea what you were doing.

Or why you are dressed the way you are dressed.

Seriously - you REALLY need to do some serious studying to find out when that what we today call "Orthodox" was the new kid on the Jewish block - and here's a hint, you don't have to go that far back in history to find that point in time.

Please feel free to worship as you see fit - but uttering ignorant statements to the effect that you somehow are the single gateway to Judaism practiced "correctly" and making nazi references to fellow Jews does precious little to make your case.

Posted by: Mike Kats | December 07, 2012 at 02:20 PM
"We will fix our problem's" (SIC)

Yes, you finally admitted that you are Satmer, as the goes “a liar must have a good memory” you forgot that the claim to be modern orthodox.

Mike, Hitler and Stalin were atheists and pagen's and they were the worlds biggest MM. As i said before Relegien does not kill just extremist in every form. GTG Good Shobus

@ Mike Kats:

You can't honestly tell me that the teachings of Rabbi Teitelbaum are true to what the Torah teaches. If you want to believe and practice Orthodox Judaism, that's totally fine, but the attitute towards victims, the manipulation of the government, the intense level of modestly that Satmar forces on its' women are not something that should be tolerated. They deny their followers information and force their lifestlye onto everyone else. I don't think that's what Judaism is all about, and true, every community has it's problems, but simply pointing that out as a reason to shun and neglect the severity of your own is no excuse.

Posted by: Mike Kats | December 07, 2012 at 02:35 PM

Hitler was most definitely NOT an atheist. He even had his SS wear belt buckles that said "Got Mit Uns" (God is with us) As per usual, you are lying.

Mike - please answer the question.

Mike Kats

historical fact

most Jews where not frum in the 1800 hundreds and nowhere near the 99% you claim unless you do not count secular Jews as Jews

you are not in anyway following the exact torah the way it was practiced thousands of years ago not even hundreds of years ago.

maybe you have not read the news but you can go to many jails and see many Frum madoff's there enough to have a few minyns.

the secular and other Jews do not claim antisemitism every time a Jew gets arrested and does not treat them as being jailed because they are Jews, but because they committed a crime and are not worshiped as heroes. they lose the respect of the community, that simply does not happen in the frum community

>We have been doing this for 3300 years, like John Adams said: “I will insist the Hebrews have [contributed] more to civilize men than any other nation", - at that time (1800) 99% of Jews were Shomri Shobos.
Posted by: Mike Kats | December 07, 2012 at 12:11 PM

But they weren't Hebrew, Mike. They were Jews. John Adams is talking about the Jews by what he knew through the Bible. He meant Isaiah the Prophet, not the Pnei Yehoshua and certainly not Yekel the Pedlar. And any actual Jews he knew were very, very 18th century modern Jews. I am not chas vesholom saying that the Pnei Yehoshua or Yekel the Pedlar were bad guys, but when high falutin' goyim spoke of the Hebrew influence on Western civilization they did not mean Yidden, although of course the enlightened and tolerant among them wanted contemporary Jews treated nicely by invoking their ancestors.

Alan Weberman, tell us what you observed about the jury.

1) Adams refers to the Jewish “religion” and its values. (Read his writing without twists, just read what he says about the Hebrew and Jews).
2) The “core” Jewish believes of 3300, 2200, 1200, and 200 years ago are the same.
3) Until the “Reform” movement which was established in the early 1800’s, 99% of Jews were frum. Just look at the pictures, books and sforim at that time etc.
4) The Jewish religion is the rules and believes described in the Torah, and does who follow does rules literally are religious Jews, the other’s are just Jews by race and not the religious Jews Adam spoke about.

Posted by: Mike Kats | December 09, 2012 at 03:04 PM

You quite obviously don't know what you're talking about.

Judaism changed greatly over those three thousand years, and many of its values changed, as well.

Only a very ignorant person would make the claim that they have remained largely the same.

Past that, as soon as the Enlightenment allowed Jews to assimilate and/or modernize, that is what tens of thousands of Jews did.

Before the Reform Movement existed there was a massive movement of Jews to modernity. The founding of the Reform Movement was a reaction to this, not its cause.

You don't know the history, let alone the theology.

One more thing about religion and orthodox accomplishment I forgot to mention before.
In a cold world where nobody really cars for each other, we have created a world with hundreds of social organization’s where people give away hours, energy, and money to others, from someone who is sick in the hospital to someone who is marrying-off a child to someone who has a flat tire (latterly).
Of course, this way of living (with many restrictions) is not for everyone especially for atheists who are not born with a “god gene” or are influenced from the fanatical anti-religious forces in the North-East or the West. But our 80 million religious Christen Evangelical brother’s in the South, agree with us (may Hsem bless them).

Mike Kats -You are brilliantly stupid.

Smarya, so you agree until Enlightenment, most Jews were strictly frum (or at least the leaders, institunation’s, culture and the perception of a JEW) - Thank you for that.
Now let’s see, According to Vikki and to everyone else, the Enlightenment movement was in the 18-19th century (check out wiki “Jewish Enlightenment”), so this proves what said that most Jews in the 18th century were frum.

I agree that the religion evolved throughout the ages, but at the core (as I said before – “the core believes”) are the same, and it’s basically what documented in the torah.

Mike Kats -You are too deep in the rabbit hole to realize how stupid you are.

Smarya, so you agree until Enlightenment, most Jews were strictly frum (or at least the leaders, institunation’s, culture and the perception of a JEW) - Thank you for that.
Now let’s see, According to Vikki and to everyone else, the Enlightenment movement was in the 18-19th century (check out wiki “Jewish Enlightenment”), so this proves what said that most Jews in the 18th century were frum.

I agree that the religion evolved throughout the ages, but at the core (as I said before – “the core believes”) are the same, and it’s basically what documented in the torah.

Posted by: Mike Kats | December 09, 2012 at 04:25 PM

Please.

Are you really this stupid?

As soon as Jews had the ability to leave the majority left. They fled the shtets, the rabbis the corruption, and they went to Paris, London, and New York.

They walked away willingly – ran away as fast as they could in many cases – from your "Yiddishkeit."

In the 18th Century, almost all Blacks in America were slaves.

That doesn't mean they liked being slaves or that slavery was right or moral.

Process that.

Did I ever say thay all liked it? Many didn’t like it many did like it – like today. All I said that in the 18th century most Jews practiced the religion – So When Adams refers to Jews he meant frum Jews because that was the perception of being a Jew.
Interestingly how the so called open minded, fact based, intellects called “secular” can’t have an intelligent conversation without throwing out childish insults like in Chader. This comes to show they are still with the Chasid DNA and they are closed minded demagogues.

Did I ever say thay all liked it? Many didn’t like it many did like it – like today. All I said that in the 18th century most Jews practiced the religion – So When Adams refers to Jews he meant frum Jews because that was the perception of being a Jew.

The Jews Adams knew were worldly Sefardim, not the Eastern European or North African shtetl dwellers you think of.

These Sefardim – NOT Mizrachim – were far, far left of what we call Modern Orthodoxy today, and most were not Orthodox at all.

You simply don't know history, theology – or what you're talking about.

So you want in Adams brain and you sew that he only had in mind the Sfardim not Ashkenazim? LOL
Besides, Adams traveled Europe and was the US representative in Europe in many occasions didn’t know Ashknazi Jews? Very logical.

Germany is not in Eastern Europe, and (you admitted before that) most German Jews until Hasclah were frum (without the shtrimel and long payes).

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