Haredi Man Looking For Work According To Jewish Law – But Off The Books

A haredi man placed an ad in Luach Hatzibur, a local Borough Park publication. The ad asks for a job "l'halakha," that is a real job as understood by Jewish law, but not "l'ma'ase," that won't officially appear as employment or income.

In other words, he wants to work off the books:

[Hat Tip: MB.]

Comments

[David]

o GOOD that he wants to work.
o BAD that he wants to break the law.

More than like he wants an under-the-table income because he is (probably fraudulently) drawing a welfare check.

= Yet another Charedi Chillul Hashem.

REMEMBER that when non-Jews think of "Jews" they think of people like the Charedim, NOT the majority of people like FM readers/contributors and other decent, hard working, educated, law-abiding normal Jews.

[David]

"likely" not "like".

[DavidR]

I am impressed that we see here a haredi who actually wants to work!!!

[dlz]

He misspelled the word "work" (it should be ארבעטן)

[David]

I am impressed that we see here a haredi who actually wants to work!!!

Posted by: David | December 05, 2012 at 06:20 AM

Please do the morally correct think and do not use the same screen name as me. Thanks!

[Gevezener Chusid]

actually it seems to me that he is looking for exactly the opposite. He wants to be on somebody's books for legal reasons (immigration, possibly?) but not le'maaseh -- not to actually do anything.

[Gevezener Chusid]

I am impressed that we see here a haredi who actually wants to work!!!

Posted by: David | December 05, 2012 at 06:20 AM

I am so sick of these types of comments. I was in the chassidic community until I was 36 years old, and I have never seen people work harder than the chassidim. The vast majority of chassidim (I am not speaking of the Leeches of Lakewood or Lubavitcher missionaries, however) are very hard-working people.

[Bas Melech]

Many of his type do not know that working off the books is illegal, not just welfare fraud. I've applied for jobs offered by religious employers who ask illegal questions such as age, number of children, and marital status.

[jancsibacsi]

Gevezener Chusid-vERY HARD WORKING PEOPLE OR HARDLY WORKING PEOPLE:) I AM IN BP RETIRED AND SEE ON 13TH AVE.THOUSANDS OF LEIDIGERS NON WOTRKING YOUNG MIDDLED AGED CHARACTERS SO I HOPE YOU ARE RIGHT BUT I DONT SEE THAT HERE.

[dish]

I second Gevezener Chusid's interpretation of the poster

[ah-pee-chorus]

actually it seems to me that he is looking for exactly the opposite. He wants to be on somebody's books for legal reasons (immigration, possibly?) but not le'maaseh -- not to actually do anything.

Posted by: Gevezener Chusid |

i think so too. either for immigration,probation,a loan/mortgage/rent application. he probably already has a job off the books. and thats why no specifics are given as to the type of work he's seeking. it doesnt matter since it'll only be on paper anyway.

[shosh]

Shamarya,

You used your vivid imagination to interpret the actual meaning of the ad. The intent of the ad can be many different things.

[Dave]

its the other way around. they need some income to get wallfer but are actually in kolel or working for someone off the books.

[A. Nuran]

If he's breaking the law he's not working according to halacha.

[LIL]

I'm Chareidi, I went to college, work in a big 4 accounting firm, and report all of my and my wife's income. For those of you who say I'm not CHareidi, I went to "white shirt" yeshivos, including BMG, and I wear a black hat to davening, and my son calls me "tatty." Enough hating on the Chareidim.

[Lubavitchers are Christians]

I'm Chareidi, I went to college, work in a big 4 accounting firm, and report all of my and my wife's income. For those of you who say I'm not CHareidi, I went to "white shirt" yeshivos, including BMG, and I wear a black hat to davening, and my son calls me "tatty." Enough hating on the Chareidim.

Posted by: LIL | December 05, 2012 at 12:55 PM

LIL - nobody is referring to your type. We are referring to the hasidim in Willi and BP and lakewood who don't work.

[jancsibacsi]

LIL-Kol hakavod to you:)

[chussid]

Actually, as mentioned earlier it's the exact opposite.

Someone wants to make income on the books, but not actually work.

Any cheider yingel would understand that.

This is typical of Shmarya's lack of any real understanding of the frum world, and how he gets things totally wrong

[Shmarya]

Posted by: chussid | December 05, 2012 at 05:57 PM

Well, that's funny, because plenty of cheder educated Jews read it exactly the same way my source did – and that's because this is what it means.

Your translation is wrong, and it is completely devoid of any relationship to the Yiddish language or reality.

[sam]

Shmaray if you translate the hebrew words you would realize that you are wrong and it means just the opposite its not about how u read it. Its simple translation. Looking to work Lahalacha translates looking to work by law. Vloh lemasah translates not to do anything. Very simple. Im a huge fan of this blog but you gotta man up when you got something totally wrong.

[Shmarya]

Shmaray if you translate the hebrew words you would realize that you are wrong and it means just the opposite its not about how u read it. Its simple translation. Looking to work Lahalacha translates looking to work by law. Vloh lemasah translates not to do anything. Very simple. Im a huge fan of this blog but you gotta man up when you got something totally wrong.

Posted by: sam | December 05, 2012 at 06:43 PM

Please.

Are you trolls all this foolish?

[sam]

Shmarya im not a troll. I visit your blog daily and as a former chused i find it a breath of fresh air that u expose the lies and corruption of the supposedly charidem lifestyle. But this one you got wrong. It would be nice if you addmit with honesty that u got it wrong instead of calling me a troll. Just do your research

[isaac]

this is the stupidest article i have ever seen in my life! its like explaining for the media what chareidim really do and then scream its a chilul hashem
what im saying is keep the garbage! why publicize it???

[Shmarya]

You say the ad means, "I'm looking for a job according to the law, but I don't want to do any actual work."

There two possibilities here:

1. It means he has to look like he's working (probably for a legal reason of some kind) but he doesn't actually want to work, so he's asking for a job that he can show his parole officer or social worker but that he doesn't have to actually show up for and work at.

2. He's trying to hide illegal income. You pay him $1000 by payroll check per week to work in your store, and he'll give you $1200 in cash under the table. You get cash you don't have to declare as income. He gets a fake income to cover his illegal activities.

However, the ad appears to a play on halakha l'ma'ase, the practical halakha, what we actually do as opposed to the opinions we don't follow.

And what he's saying is, I'm looking for a job l'halakha but that won't show 'ma'ase, in actuality – meaning pay me off the books.

Either way, he's asking for help to do something illegal.

[sam]

Yep either way its illegal i agree with you on that.

[MalachHamovies]

I once bought an item from a store in borough park. I did not have cash so i asked the owner who do i make the check out to. He said make it out to chaim avrohom shmiel horowitiz. i told him,, but thats not your name. he answered no.. you dont have to write the entire name just the roshei tavos which spells out CASH.

true story. lol. on the other hand maybe i should not have written out the check like that.

[Chussid]

Posted by: Shmarya | December 05, 2012 at 07:41 PM "

Trying to explain to you a Chassidish-Yiddish expression is like trying to explain an English expression to a Chinese person. You can insist from today till tomorrow that it means what you think, but someone who is not immersed in the culture will never quite get it. As someone within the culture, I'm telling you that you have it backwards.

You totally misunderstood the "Lihaluche" as meaning "that is a real job as understood by Jewish law," when actually it's used in this context in day-to-day conversation as an expression for "according to the [secular] law."

But even the simple translation shows you to be wrong:

Ich Zich Tzi Arbiten - I'm looking to work
Lihaluche - according to the [secular] law (i.e. to report it)
Viloy Limaaseh - but not [to] actually [work].

Why you can't ever MAN UP and admit there's something you misunderstood is beyond me.

Not every time someone shows you to be wrong can you just say everyone who argues is a "troll," especially when there are so many different commentors explaining that you have it wrong.

[James]

Chussid,
You are wasting your time with this "know it all" arse hole, who despite supposedly attending yeshiva, even if it was a lubab one, cannot understand simple Hebrew,let alone Yiddish.Additionally, he has so little understanding of chasidic culture, that even if he had a grasp of Yiddish he would not get what the advertiser wanted.

To all the other blog readers:Shmarya and his imbecilic "sources" have gotten the ad totally wrong, what he wants, as chusid points out is a paycheck under his name.
(of course shmarya will never admit he is wrong and will twist the discussion to the legality of such an arrangement, which is totally not the point. the point is his inability to admit being wrong.yuck)

[Shmarya]

Please.

You're both absolute idiots.

1. Try reading this:

You say the ad means, "I'm looking for a job according to the law, but I don't want to do any actual work."

There two possibilities here:

1. It means he has to look like he's working (probably for a legal reason of some kind) but he doesn't actually want to work, so he's asking for a job that he can show his parole officer or social worker but that he doesn't have to actually show up for and work at.

2. He's trying to hide illegal income. You pay him $1000 by payroll check per week to work in your store, and he'll give you $1200 in cash under the table. You get cash you don't have to declare as income. He gets a fake income to cover his illegal activities.

However, the ad appears to a play on halakha l'ma'ase, the practical halakha, what we actually do as opposed to the opinions we don't follow.

And what he's saying is, I'm looking for a job l'halakha but that won't show 'ma'ase, in actuality – meaning pay me off the books.

Either way, he's asking for help to do something illegal.

Posted by: Shmarya | December 05, 2012 at 07:41 PM

2. The hasidim and yeshivish guys who separately sent this ad to me understood it the way I posted it.

3. Even if you're right, what he's asking for is help breaking the law.

I hope this isn't too complex for you both. If it is, go ask one of those rabbis of yours who failed to teach you and ask him. Perhaps he'll find it within himself to help you.

[chussid]

Posted by: Shmarya | December 06, 2012 at 04:33 AM

No, you're the idiot.

I never said that what he's doing is not illegal. You're convincing yourself that we're all trying to minimize the wrongdoing by lying, but that's not the case at all.

I understand clearly that either understanding is just as illegal, thus proving I have no agenda other than showing how you're stubbornly wrong. I'm not at all trying to say that the person isn't looking to do something illegal, and just because you keep insisting such doesn't make it so.

My points are:

a) You got the story wrong.
b) You can't admit you got it wrong.
c) You lack an insiders knowledge, yet pretend that you understand things as an insider does.
d) Your translations are often misunderstandings.
e) Whenever anyone shows that you are wrong, you try to pretend they have an agenda and are lying.
f) You lack the maturity to be able to admit when you make even an innocent mistake.
g) You think that name-calling makes you right.

No one is saying you deliberately translated it wrong, we're just explaining that you misunderstood due to certain cultural references that you don't get and can't be expected to get since you were never immersed in the mainstream Chassidic culture.

Yet instead of saying "oh you're right, I'll change it," you stubbornly insist that you are right and that everyone else has an agenda. And this is something you do constantly.

Just man up, say "I misunderstood," and perhaps you will gain some maturity in the process.

[James]

Hey, you arrogant turd!
*Process this*:You have been told by longtime posters Gevezener chused and apikorus that you are wrong that should at least give you pause....
Your sources are as stupid as you are or just wanted to show you up for the literal fool you are.
Anyone involved with the Yiddish speaking culture of New Yorks Chasidim(as opposed to lubavitchers and yeshiva guys who hardly speak yiddish and for sure would not understand the subtleties) knows that the guy is seeking a "no show" job with a real check.
Don't try and twist your way out by saying that it's illegal anyway, because that's not the issue here.What is the issue is that you are attempting to show credentials as a journalist who "knows" the chasidic world and the reality is you know nothing and are not prepared to learn

[Shmarya]

I realize this is rocket science for "James" and "Chussid," but my point is pretty clear – it's a play on "halakha l'ma'ase," and means what my sources think it means.

But, if we're wrong and APC and GCh are correct, it means what APC and David says it means – a fake job on the books to hide the fact that he isn't working at all, either to collect certain government benefits or to fulfill parole requirements or to hide illegal income.

Because you especially and chussid don't seem to understand the idea of a play on words, you can't grasp the reason why you might be wrong.

[James]

You arrogance is astounding.
Are you, someone who does not know simple Hebrew (despite or maybe because of attending a Lubob yeshiva) and definitely no Yiddish, and has a total misunderstanding of chasidic colloquialisms, going to still argue that you are right and attempt to "teach" a language you don't know?
Why don't you have an honest bone in your body to at least ask your posters, some of who are actually quite knowledgeable???

This is actually quite funny!
Oh, don't try and weasel your way out by saying getting a no show check is illegal, THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE!!

[Shmarya]

Please.

Are you now claiming that this is a hasidic colloquialism that was previously known to you?

[James]

Uhuh!
Wow, you actually got it.
Btw, not only to me but to the average yiddish speaker in boro park or williamsburg, wanting to "hint" at a no show job.
yup

[James]

I"m belaboring the point to show 2 things
A)Your "sources" are ignorant
B)You never admit to any mistakes

[Shmarya]

Uhuh!
Wow, you actually got it.
Btw, not only to me but to the average yiddish speaker in boro park or williamsburg, wanting to "hint" at a no show job.
yup

Posted by: James | December 06, 2012 at 01:48 PM

That's really good to know. Thank you. I'm sure the FBI is grateful to you, as well.

[chussid]

"Please.

Are you now claiming that this is a hasidic colloquialism that was previously known to you?

Posted by: Shmarya | December 06, 2012 at 01:34 PM"

We've only been explaining this the entire time. Yet in your arrogance, you think you know everything, and that due to your superior intelligence you know what a chassidic community's vernacular expression means, better than a chassidic person who lives there and speaks the vernacular.

I believe I said earlier (scroll up):
"Trying to explain to you a Chassidish-Yiddish expression is like trying to explain an English expression to a Chinese person. You can insist from today till tomorrow that it means what you think, but someone who is not immersed in the culture will never quite get it. As someone within the culture, I'm telling you that you have it backwards."

So yes, I clearly explained that this is an expression (or as you say colloquialism) used within the chassidic community.

But in your arrogance it took a large number of posts to get it through your thick arrogant head.

[Shmarya]

Posted by: chussid | December 06, 2012 at 03:04 PM

It wasn't clear to me that you really were familiar with this expression, perhaps because in your arrogance you wrote your comment in such a manner that made it less than clear.

And with that said I'll still bet you that the expression is used both ways (although perhaps not equally so), not simply your way, and that it originated in the way I posited.