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November 10, 2012

Zionist Orthodox ‘Clairvoyant’ Says Hurricane Sandy Sent By God To Warn And Punish The US For ‘Abandoning’ Israel

Rabbi Nir Ben Artzi 2A controversial Zionist Orthodox ba’al teshuva ‘mystic’ and self-declared clairvoyant from southern Israel, Rabbi Nir Ben-Artzi, told his followers on Shabbat that God would send an increasing number of severe storms to hammer the United States because the US, Ben-Artzi claimed, wasn’t supporting Israel.

Rabbi Nir Ben Artzi 2
Rabbi Nir Ben Artzi

Zionist Orthodox ‘Clairvoyant’ Says Hurricane Sandy Sent By God To Warn And Punish US For ‘Abandoning’ Israel
Shmarya Rosenberg • FailedMessiah.com

A controversial Zionist Orthodox ba’al teshuva ‘mystic’ and self-declared clairvoyant from southern Israel, Rabbi Nir Ben-Artzi, told his followers on Shabbat that God would send an increasing number of severe storms to hammer the United States because the US, Ben-Artzi claimed, wasn’t supporting Israel.

"The Sovereign of the Universe is telling Jews in the Land of Israel and the entire world: 'Do you think I am joking with you? Fooling with you? Don't you understand that I am serious? Every day I raise the judgment to a higher level than the previous day! No place in the world is safe and no place will be safe except the holy Land of Israel!’…The Americans will receive another storm, and another even harsher storm, until they say: 'There was never anything like this!' In the severe storm Sandy, in which the Blessed Holy One made chaos in the United States, hitting property, rocks and trees, the Creator is telling Americans, 'If you do not help Israel, I will overturn everything you have!' The Blessed Holy One destined the Americans to preserve the state of Israel in natural ways. If the United States wants to succeed, it must openly help and support the nation of Israel.…Every millimeter of Hurricane Sandy was managed by the Blessed Holy One. There was no mistake! There was no coincidence, and no other thought. Don't mess with the Blessed Holy One. The Blessed Holy One is now in a state of severe judgment and anger vis-à-vis the entire world. The Creator is about to wash, clean and purify the entire world, step by step, and each step stronger than the previous one! Do not hesitate, come urgently to the Land of Israel and fulfill the Ten Commandments,” Ben-Artzi reportedly said.

Ben-Artzi offered no explanation for the relative mildness of the Nor’easter which struck New York, New Jersey and much of northeastern seaboard a week after Hurricane Sandy struck or for the $3 billion in aid the US gives Israel each year.

Ben-Artzi, a former tractor driver on a kibbutz, is widely viewed as a fraud and as a mentally ill individual, but has amassed a sizable following, nonetheless.

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Zionist Orthodox ba’al teshuva ‘mystic’ and self-declared clairvoyant from southern Israel, Rabbi Nir Ben-Artzi

Almost every word in this sentence is mutually exclusive from one other. Where can I send him money?

I need a scorecard: Was the storm because of gays? because Israel is subservient to the US? or because the US isn't supportive enough of Israel?

B"H

According to the Rebbe it is not proper to explain human suffering like this.

From the link

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/64888/jewish/The-Rebbe-on-the-Holocaust.htm

In his writings and discussions on the subject, the Rebbe rejected all theological explanations for the Holocaust. What greater conceit -- the Rebbe would say -- and what greater heartlessness, can there be than to give a "reason" for the death and torture of millions of innocent men, women and children? Can we presume to assume that an explanation small enough to fit inside the finite bounds of human reason can explain a horror of such magnitude?

Posted by: Simple Jew | November 10, 2012 at 11:00 PM

Please.

Chabad.org lied to you.

The Rebbe did explain things exactly like this – in fact, he spoke about the Holocaust as God removing a cancerous limb from a person.

He received widespread condemnation and derision for doing this, which caused your now very dead rebbe to take back his remarks.

Schneerson was not a failed messiah. He was an impostor. If you ever try to make me bow to your fucking idol, I will make you bow to my fucking Winchester. Capiche?

Wow, a clairvoyant who can see the past!

> is widely viewed as a fraud and as a mentally ill individual,

Yet you give him a platform.

I have only one question. Is this person paid by the State of Israel?

"Rabbi Nir Ben-Artzi, told his followers on Shabbat that God would send an increasing number of severe storms to hammer the United States [...]"

God told me that Nir Ben-Artzi and his family would die in a fire.

Stories like this make me sigh for humanity. I suffered for DAYS because of Sandy and this fuckwit is saying my suffering is because of some stupid bullshit like this.

I can only imagine what rape/abuse victims feel like when their rabbis rationalize their suffering with some bullshit. Probably unimaginably worse. Any rabbi who says crap like this should have their mouths wired shut.

I am quite familiar with this cat.

To elucidate on his background, yes he was a tractor driver. Yet there is more to the story. Supposedly he fell off of the tractor, and since then he has Ruach HaKodesh. I don't know if or where he received Smicha.

He is listed as the 5th wealthiest Rabbi in Isreal.

I read is weekly parsha sheet, of which the front page is devoted to his Mussar. It is the same fire and brimstone every week-- all Jews must make Aliyah ASAP. It is written in very simple Hebrew to appeal to the masses.

I even heard him speak and he stands in a trance with is arms outstretched as in the photo here.

His followers are the Sfardi simple folk. And he is a joke to everyone else.

This is a breakthrough in meteorological forecasting. Someone please tell Jim Cantore.

the earthquakes! Somehow nowadays, people forget to prophesize earthquakes!

In Italy they gave geologists six years in jail for failing to predict the 2009 earthquake that left hundreds dead.

How many years for this and other rabbis for the deaths that could have been avoided had they shared their specific prognostications in advance? It doesn't seem right that they are letting so many die when they could use their special powers to tell them to evacuate.

And maybe a tad more specific than predicting "more storms...."

People I know and respect love this guy.

Oy vey! :-(

Funny; God told me he whacked Brooklyn because he's had it with all the baby penis-sucking. When I asked him, "What about all of the liberal Jews and gentiles who got caught in it as well?", he replied, "Whoops!"

People I know and respect love this guy.

Oy vey! :-(

Posted by: FM Fan | November 11, 2012 at 06:25 AM

Your people must be אנשים פשוטים.

Because the only people he appeals to are עם הארץ ספרדים.

B"H

I cite a source shmarya cites nothing on what the Rebbe said.

There are enough documented sources to back up what I say.

What are your documented sources?

I cite a source shmarya cites nothing on what the Rebbe said.

There s a reason for that. We don't care what he said. You might as well be citing the Book of Luke.

"Am Haaretz Sephardim" means "lowlife brown jews" for those of you keeping score at home.

Real classy, KD. You think you're an intellectual, open-minded, and a witty conversationalist. With a comment like the one above, you're actually no better than this 'rabbi.' You are a lowlife, piece of racist scum. Even if it was meant as a joke, racism cannot be tolerated in 21st century America. Do you even understand the discrimination that many sefaradim, or as you have it, 'lowlife brown Jews' have faced in medinat yisrael?

Posted by: SkepticalYid | November 11, 2012 at 09:22 AM

I'd send the link to my nephew, but he'd agree with it and insist the benighted frei yidden just don't get it.

I can honestly say that I've never before heard a rabbi quote God saying, "don't fuck with me, I'm God, goddammit!"

Anyway, when you deal with a Kabbalistic clairvoyant, there's always a red string attached.

Michael, take a deep breath and read what I just said again. I'm agreeing with you by calling out Moshe in Israel.

Jeff is doing his best to show us just how enlightened he is. So what's your favorite TV show, Tosh or Family Guy?

Days after same gender marriage began in New York, we were hit by Hurricane Irene. Days before the national election, (no significant repentance in NY or anywhere in the US,) Hurricane Sandy hits, further damaging our fragile economy. In 2 days: An earthquake in California, an "almost" tsunami in Alaska, Hawaii and Hurricane Sandy in the East
And do you view these facts as mere coincidence:
Hurricane" Sandy"shares the same name as the Maryland Gay Marriage law's sponsor "Sandy" Rosenberg?
Or, that shortly before Sandy devastated Manhattan, the site of the "Gay Rights Parade", Mayor Blumberg came to Maryland to promote Same-Sex marriage?

Or that that Katrina which means "cleaning"
was one of three hurricanes that hit New Orleans(Gustav, and Isaac were the other two) on the same date of southern Decadence Days of homo-promo?

Posted by: mendel | November 11, 2012 at 12:08 PM

Please.

You need to be institutionalized.

And here's a tip for you, little Chabad man. Katrina means "pure" "holy" and "blessed." It does N-O-T mean "cleaning."

Idiot.

Shmarya,

FYI - he is not "Zionist," nor is he accepted in the Religious Zionist world.

Aside from his cult of followers, he is not taken seriously by anyone here in Israel.

Drasha gives new meaning to the phrase "rain with a chance of meatballs"

A year later, after New Orleans refused to head the warning of God, hurricane Katrina visited her wrath upon the city. What is little reported is that the storm hit on the eve of the nation's largest gathering ever of homosexuals and deviant sexual behavior in the city of New Orleans. Southern Decadence (www.southerndecadence.com) was to kick off on August 31 with the blessing of the leaders of the city. Long the cesspool of America, New Orleans was flooded by Katrina. It is interesting to note that Katrina is German for Katherine which means "purity or cleansing."

Ivan means G-d is gracious.
Katrina means cleansing-- I made a typo--get it?
http://forums.homestead.org/forum_posts.asp?TID=1402&title=katrina-means-cleansing

"In his writings and discussions on the subject, the Rebbe rejected all theological explanations for the Holocaust..."

The reason for the Holocaust was very simple (albeit not theological): Many people *hate* Jews. Many others hate the *behavior* of many Jews. They hate them enough to starve gas and cremate them. And if there is such an entity an adoynoy melekh haolam (which there isn't), it evidently thought annihilating these Jews was a good idea, or couldn't be bothered to stop it.

Posted by: mendel | November 11, 2012 at 01:13 PM

Katherine does NOT mean cleansing. Katrina and Cathrine are the same name. And you are idiot.

Ivan is the equivalent of John which is the equivalent of Yochanan.

Posted by: mendel | November 11, 2012 at 01:13 PM

I'm a little disappointed. Where's the gematria?

You are no etymologist either.
Equivalents do not get to the root level.
objection overruled.

You are no etymologist either.
Equivalents do not get to the root level.
objection overruled.

Posted by: mendel | November 11, 2012 at 01:41 PM

Idiot.

The names mean what I said they mean – NOT what you claimed they mean.

There actually is clear scholarship on this and it doesn't support you.

Now toddle off, little moron.

^ Shmarya, you're not going to win any arguments by writing in capital letters, and cursing. This mendel guy probably IS an idiot, but regardless, he has a source or two to back him up, while you have merely said that 'the names mean what I say.' That's academics for ya. Don't quote sources, and just try to convince everyone that you're right, for no logical reason.

Posted by: mendel | November 11, 2012 at 12:08 PM

There are hurricanes every year. The fact that uncounted hurricanes and earthquakes have devastated various regions of the United States over the centuries proves that you're creating irrational and unfounded connections and conclusions.

"What is little reported is that the storm hit on the eve of the nation's largest gathering ever of homosexuals and deviant sexual behavior ..."

Mendel Chaver, yedid nafshi, so why, according to your understanding, an understanding forged in the schools of King Messiah, did the Tzaddik Rebbe decree, and the holy one blessed be he fullfill, a Hurricane that destroyed multiple outposts of King Messiah in New York, and Mordechai Ben David, who will continue singing and making Jewish music until the Rebbe Returns visible to our fleshy eyes, lose his 1,000s albums of Jewish music collection?

Skeptical Yid and Fleish--
1.There are hurricanes every year. The fact that uncounted hurricanes and earthquakes have devastated various regions of the United States over the centuries proves that you're creating irrational and unfounded connections and conclusions.
2.And A Hurricane that destroyed multiple outposts.
1.They are the self-same tools in the hands of the same Wood chopper nevertheless.
2."Woe to the wicked and woe to his neighbor". In point of fact, Lot was merely a neighbor who, were it not for the repeated adjurations of the malachim to leave, would have been swept up in the destruction of Sodom and Amorah too.

Mendel,I want some of your weed for next time I go out!I see one gets really stoned!

Posted by: mendel | November 11, 2012 at 03:23 PM

Since you have no reasonable rebuttal or factual basis to your earlier statement, you choose to rely on a weak metaphor. Pathetic.

"Woe to the wicked and woe to his neighbor" Why couldn't the master of Hashgocho Protis, the one who drops the leaf so that the little worm can nap in the shade, not bring his Hurricane upon the Homosexuals without destroying Mordechai Ben David's CDs?

(WTF? on the wood chopper)

I was watching the archelogy science show and if was unbeleivably interesting showing proof that sodom, and amorah were destroyed due to a meteor asteroid that came down about 5200 years ago i wont go into detail but it made all the sense i am convinced that the fire was because of that no miracles

jancsipista,do you know by any chance the etimology of the name Szatmàr?There's a guy on Ch info who wants to know and he says the damned rumenians say that Satu Mare(the word they use for Szatmàr) means St Mary.Do you know the Hungarian version of the story?Thanks.

Abu i told this many times to others who thought way tha it mean st. mary it means in romania satu is city mare means big that all it means big city no st, mary what nonsense sok bolond van ezen a foldon.

There's a guy on Ch info who wants to know and he says the damned rumenians say that Satu Mare(the word they use for Szatmàr) means St Mary.Do you know the Hungarian version of the story?Thanks.

From Wikipedia:

The Hungarian name of the town Szatmár is believed to come from the personal name Zotmar, as the Gesta Hungarorum gives the name of the 10th century fortified settlement at the site of today's Satu Mare as Castrum Zotmar. Until 1925, in Romanian, the name Sătmar was used, which is the Hungarian name transcribed to Romanian orthography. Since 1925, the name of the town in Romanian is officially Satu Mare, which is similar in pronunciation to the original name, and, by popular etymology, conveys meaning in Romanian, namely "great village".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satu_Mare#Name

szatmar was given to the romanians do to the hungarian politics of always siding with the enemy like the natzis in ww2 i went 4 years to romanian school and satu as i remember is city mare means big.

Thanks jancsbacsi and Jeff!

damn god must love the Germans since they did not have ant natural (god) disasters

This guy drove a tractor?

Sarcastically

Ha-Shem wanted Obama to get re-elected so He sent the storm so Obama would get credit for appearing as a Commander-in-Chief.

Otherwise it would be a close election

SkepticalYid and Fleish1.
"RAGING WATERS
http://ascentofsafed.com/cgi-bin/ascent.cgi?Name=tsunami&mode=print

A Chasidic Prediction of the Tsunami(and other disasters) Sixty Years Ago
[Slightly adapted from www.shmais.com]

In the Chabad magazine, "HaKri'a V'hakedusha," of Tammuz 5704 (1944), which was edited under the supervision of the sixth Luibavitcher Rebbe, an article is written under the name G. Zarchi about chapter 93 in Psalms, based on Medrash and other teachings of our sages. The article is so relevant to recent events that there's no need for adaptations and comparisons. We'll just quote selected paragraphs verbatim (free translation).


This chapter of Tehillim was composed by the G-dly poet regarding the Days of Moshiach. He hints briefly at the events which will take place before the redemption. The central theme of the chapter is that the Jews living at that time will understand by means of these events, that the exile is over and redemption has begun.

"Hashem moloch gai'us lovaish, lovaish Hashem oz his'azar af tikkon taivail bal timot" - "G-d will be king by wearing greatness"!

We generally think the world is run by nature and we forget entirely that there is a G-d who rules over nature. It's only when an unnatural occurrence takes place such as a flood, earthquake, and other terrible upheavals - that we remember that there's a ruler of the world who rules over nature. Then all will say that G-d is king! He put nature aside and showed his absolute sovereignty over nature.

The poet goes on to speak about the time when Hashem will be revealed in clothes of gevura ["might"] and the world will recognize and acknowledge that He is king. He explains that this will happen during the Days of Moshiach before the redemption because "Hashem wore the gevura" which he girded Himself with in the past. Gevura refers to Torah, and Hashem girded Himself with its strength at the time of the giving of the Torah to the Jewish people at Sinai. At that time there were such strong thunder and lightning that the nations of the world thought the world was coming to an end. Bilaam explained to them that "Hashem oz l'amo yeetain" - that Hashem was giving his strong Torah to His people, and it has the power to build worlds or destroy them.
2.Earlier this Jewish year, Rabbi Kaduri predicted great tragedies in the world. Just two weeks before the devastating tsunami in southeast Asia, Rabbi Kaduri was quoted in the Yediot Acharonot newspaper as saying:


"We are now in the fourth year of what could be the seven-year Redemption period, according to the calculation of the Vilna Gaon. [However.] in the coming three years, uncertainty about the future will hang over our heads, unless we work and strive that the Mashiach be revealed.

The Mashiach is already in Israel. Whatever people are sure will not happen, is liable to happen, and whatever we are certain will happen may disappoint us. But in the end, there will be peace throughout the world. The world is mitmatek mehadinim (or becoming sweet from strict justice).

Great tragedies in the world are foreseen, that's the thing of the Jews going to the East. But our enemies will not prevail over us in the Land of Israel, 'fear and trembling will fall upon them,' in the power of Torah."
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/89850#.UKENP4a0KSo

Mr Eli wrote, In Italy they gave geologists six years in jail for failing to predict the 2009 earthquake that left hundreds dead.

More media sensetionalist muddle, dear fellow. Quite understandable for you to think so, since few of the intrepid sleuths seem to do much legwork nowadays or know what journalistic ethics are, years of journalism school notwithstanding. Actually, the hapless geologists were accused of predicting that there would be no earthquake, a "prediction" which no doubt cost many a life. The prosecutor argued, quite accurately, that the state of the science is not advanced sufficiently to make predictions either way and suggested that the geologists were criminally liable for misusing their authority. An interesting little ruling which should perk up the ears of the global warmist alarmists, I say.

O, dear me, Mr Mendl, are you certain that such jejune interpretations of natural events as cryptic messages or punishments from the Almighty are entirely kosher, as you might say? One can always find someone doing a bit of the old nastiness in any given time of the day, depending where and when one chooses to look. Wouldn't be able to go for a little jaunt to the pub for all the storms, earhquakes and meteorites if such were the case.

I've a great respect for the Judaic faith, have even had the honour to converse briefly with the great Lord Rabbi Sacks, a brilliant gentleman and a giant among men, and cannot imagine him or others of his quality of mind to ever babble such illogical and frankly primitive and sinful Pagan gibberish.

Think on this, Mr Mendl; one really shouldn't so readily ascribe to the Almighty motives one pulls out of his own bowler hat on a whim. Worse, one shouldn't then proceed with the sin, full steam ahead, by sifting through scriptures to buttress his own fever dreams. Otherwise, why not consider Mr Isa's tongue-in-cheek interpretation: "Ha-Shem wanted Obama to get re-elected so He sent the storm so Obama would get credit for appearing as a Commander-in-Chief...Otherwise it would be a close election." A droll comment which given realities, works as a better augury than yours, I'd say. Toodle-pips!

Lord Ridelle--
One really shouldn't so readily ascribe to the Almighty motives one pulls out of his own bowler hat on a whim.
Maybe you missed this part of my post:
This chapter of Tehillim was composed by the G-dly poet regarding the Days of Moshiach. He hints briefly at the events which will take place before the redemption. The central theme of the chapter is that the Jews living at that time will understand by means of these events, that the exile is over and redemption has begun.
King David hardly pulled this out of his bowler hat; rather, it was from divine inspiration prophetically given to him.
I am surprised that you can be so blithely dismissive when presented with facts such as these after having met Rabbi Sacks; unlike you,he-- certainly-- would have been greatly impressed by the words of the Lubavitcher Rebbe-- he wrote a book on the latter's works..

So, for the believers in theodicy, why do your interpretations of events hold weight. On any given day, newsworthy events and insignificant events are happening. Why is it this event and not that event that the hurricane warns?

Challenge: Please explain why Katrina, Irene, Sandy or any other earthquake or natural disaster is not a warning to Jews to accept Christianity (or Islam if you prefer) and convert. Remember, you must use logic that is not just as easily used against your argument.

My dear Mr Mendel, I fear you are conflating the awesome Psalms and their honoured author with yours or someone else's interpretations of current misfortunes, as well as arguing that somehow, Lord Sack's respect for the Lubavitcher Rebbe is a unambiguous endorsement of the said interpretations from "brief hints." I dare say that some might call such arguments callow exploitation; I call it well-intentioned error.

But I do not intent to preach theology to you as we follow different traditions, so let me divert to certain facts of history we may both agree on. This old warhorse took great interest in Judaic studies as a young man and is not entirely unfamiliar with the history of the Jewish people. Still follows its fascinating journey and its besieged nation state, I should add as well. And so, I assure you that yours is not the first generation--nor the only religion, one might add--to hail the imminent arrival of a Messiah. In fact, hundreds of great and small rabbis and preachers in the past have lent their fervour to a whole chain of popular Messianic arousals among Europe's suffering Jewry. Tens of thousands of Jews, entire Jewish communities at times, followed the call of these learned but error-filled prophets to give away their worldly goods and wander off by foot for the Holy Land--often in the wrong direction as they were led by "holy fools" who had never stepped out of the precincts of their villages--to be robbed and murdered by highway barons or captured and sold into slavery by the Moor. Let me assure you, lest you blush on behalf of your people, the Christian folks were equally gullible many a time when heeding the calls of error-filled mendicant friars and maddenned priests.

The Almighty is a Lord of mercy in your religion as in mine, and one would commit himself to a quite a bold assumption about His will in asserting that He would leave the transmission of His instruction in today's day and age to a few mutually contradicting mystics who see very different "hints" when looking at scripture. Well, at least none of you modern interpreters, so far, have had the courage or gall to proclaim yourselves as prophets, I trust? No offense intended, dear fellow; I do enjoy a spirited debate, especially with you Americans.

Ah, thank you Mr Rebeljew. Theodicy is the very word I was looking for throughout this discourse! It hovered on the peripheries, never coming close enough for me to grasp it by its neck.

While I am of the opinion that Sandy might have been a "divine wind", given its proximity to the election, the effect was so favorable to Obama that one cannot help but think G-d was favoring Obama. And why not? He's all for international peace, cooperation, and getting along with each other, as well as charity. Heck, this is a guy that has Passover seders in the White House. There was no abandonment of Israel involved - a desire to reduce bullying is not necessarily "abandonment".

"Divine wind" has a long history. Genocidaire Genghis Khan was kept from conquering Japan by the original "divine wind", a typhoon. In the Renaissance period, the Inquisition was kept from England's shores by the bad weather that smashed the Spanish Armada to pieces. The snows that kept Hitler from taking Moscow are also well-known, as were the parting of the Sea of Reeds and G-d's appearance as a pillar of fire and column of smoke.

"Divine wind" does not always prevent evil from occurring. There was no "wind" that prevented the Nanking massacre or the Holocaust, and weather may have helped the Black Death to spread in 1348 and contributed to the Irish Potato Famine five hundred years later.

The effects of those catastrophes is interesting. Jews regained Eretz Yisrael, Communists eventually took over China (although I don't know of any real weather contribution to the events in China), the Middle Ages faded into the Renaissance, and Irishmen came to America's shores.

So, I wonder. Is "divine wind" really divine? Does G-d play dice with the universe? Is nature just a freak show, to pass the popcorn with, and not be interpreted with any moral or ethical lesson?

"It's only when an unnatural occurrence takes place such as a flood, earthquake, and other terrible upheavals - that we remember that there's a ruler of the world who rules over nature. Then all will say that G-d is king! He put nature aside and showed his absolute sovereignty over nature." -One commentator

Um, earthquakes, floods, and upheavals are not unnatural occurrences, unless people cause them. The great Tohoku catastrophe in Japan was no human's fault, except for the meltdowns (and those meltdowns happened only because humans engaged in the folly of misdesigning nuclear power plants). The tsunami happened regardless of any human's will, produced by the great earthquake.

As for whether G-d is actually ruling over nature, I'll take a pass. One issue for me is that if G-d rules over nature, then sometimes G-d rules unethically or questionably with respect to ethics. If G-d is being unethical, of course I'm going to call G-d out on that breach of ethics if I can, just the same as I would any politician.

Ah, there, you see the pitfalls of such interpretations, Mr Mendel? You have Mr Reuven Aharon offering an entirely different one and seriously proposes that your Mr Obama is actually good for Jews and Israel! That would be your president, I trust, the same chap whose VP set-up Mr Netenyahu, who--like a medieval mayor in charge his ghetto Jewry--tries to impose limits on Jewish growth and construction in their own country, who refuses to travel to Israel and courts Islamist Turkey instead, who will undoubtedly allow the Iranians to build their bomb and the Russians to squeeze Europe and so on. What a mess of prophesies we have on our hands!

But he does brings us to a good and fair question: Would you, like the Japanese, accept the storm that saved them from the Mongol, the kamikaze, as a divine wind from the Almighty? If not, why not?

I referred to the term "divine wind" in English, as the original Japanese term has been associated with suicide airplane bombers (because that's what WWII Japanese named their suicide airplane bombers, in the unsuccessful hope that such attackers would repulse their enemy.)

Lord Ridelle, Rueven Aharon
Prophets do not speculate

In contrast, prophecy -- even though it is the word of G-d, "the spirit of G-d spoke to me" -- is the revelation of G-dliness to man. "He revealed His secrets to His servants, the prophets", according to their limits[205] that it should be absorbed in the knowledge and mind of the prophet. A prophet becomes as one with the prophecy communicated to him and the vision of prophecy becomes clothed in his minds and understanding and also in his thoughts and speech, as it is written "The spirit of G-d spoke in me, and His word is on my tongue."

Moreover, prophecy is intended to be revealed through speech. The very Hebrew term for prophecy, nevuah implies that it is a subject proclaimed and announced to the people as in the term niv s'fosayim, ("the expression of the lips"). In contrast, Torah which can remain in one's thoughts. Also the import of prophecy has connection with the events of the world. To quote the Rambam, "A prophet is only there to inform us of what is going to happen in the future in the world."[206]

There is a commandment to obey "your judges" at all times, as it is written in our Torah portion "And you shall come... to the judge who will be in those days." Similarly, there is a commandment to obey the prophets, as it is written separately in the Torah portion (18:15) "G-d will set up for you a prophet from your midst, from your brothers, like me, and you shall hearken to him."

In this context, the Rambam explains "one of the fundamentals of the religion is to know that G-d sends His prophecies through people." Since the Rambam prefaces the commandment to heed a prophet with the concept that prophecy is one of "the fundamentals of the religion," we can understand that this affects Jews in all generations. Our Sages tell us "that from the time the later prophets, Chaggai, Zecharia and Malachi died, the Holy Spirit departed from Israel." Nevertheless, the word "departed" does not mean that it was abolished completely. The spirit of prophecy did not cease, but rather ascended to a higher plane. Indeed, even after the era of the later prophets, the spirit of prophecy permeated very many people. (This can also be understood from the fact that, in the Mishneh Torah, the Rambam does not mention the cessation of prophecy, nor that the spirit of prophecy can flourish only in a specific time.)

http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/crown-jewels-1/02.htmHurricanes etc.

To explain the above (at least in a concentrated manner): One of the fundamental principles of faith (even according to the legal tradition of Nigleh[74]) is that G-d is the only Master within the entire world. Aside from Him, no other entity has any dominion [or any independent authority]. For all the stars and the spheres[75] - and even the angels - are merely "an ax in the hand of the chopper,"[76] functioning only "according to the will and command of G-d."[77] Believing that there are certain entities that have the ability to function according to their independent will runs contrary to the faith in the oneness of G-d. (This applies even if one acknowledges that any activity performed by these entities is performed with power vested in them by G-d, but maintains that these entities have the choice whether to exercise this power or not.)[

So sorry for the hiaitus, Mr Mendel, family urgencies cropped up. I appreciate your detailed responses and I do read and think about them. I see that you have made a bit of an excursus into the paradox of free will as well, you have, one that also occupied Maimonides, whose thinking I'm very partial to. Your position of free will appears to be that of Ashariya's which argues that all, every minute action in the universe, is determined by the Almighty, whereas in his Opinion of Our Law, Maimonides states a different one, namely that, "a fundamental principle of the Law of Moses is that man has absolute freedom in his conduct; no one in our religion disputes it." For this nugget I snuck a peek at Isaac Husik's classic, A History of Jewish Philosophy (1916), pp 291-4. Fascinating read that tome if you have a calm evening, a good fire and some passable sherry at hand.

Nevertheless, the point I'm trying to return to is the initial one, and that is interpreting current events as particular portents. Again, I do not dispute your theology or any of the general points you made regarding prophesy, although owing to our different religious perspectives we surely differ in some of the fundamentals. What I'm saying is not that interpreting God's will from natural events is impossible, for the scriptures clearly show that it is and you have kindly provided further evidence of possibility, but that in our days such prophetic certainties may be beyond ordinary individuals and even, apparently, learned and exceptional ones, which is why I brought up the case of false messianic prophesies among European Jews and their religious leaders. In claiming that a particular storm was brought by God to punish whoever for whatever sins or crimes, one takes on the serious burden of claiming knowledge of God's plans and intents. An awesome task that, wouldn't you say? And so my question remains: Are you or someone you know truly certain that the Almighty used the recent storm to punish particular people? And if so, are you presenting evidence which is clear to all or at least a critical number of your coreligionists?

Lord Ridelle...who are you really?

lord Ridelle--
Are you or someone you know truly certain that the Almighty used the recent storm to punish particular people?
One cannot be certain, but we learn from the flood of Noah that in
a place in which the people act properly, according to G-d's will,that in such a place, a rainbow is not needed as a sign that a flood will not come, other places may be different, and the rainbow is a sign saying that a flood will not be sent as punishment to that particular place for its improper conduct. A rainbow a few days later simply means that yet another place is deserving of flood as a punishment -- but will not receive it because of G-d's promise to Noach. A place in which the residents behave properly, in contrast, does not need a sign for itself, for besides G-d's promise to Noach, G-d anyway would not punish the righteous together with the wicked.
http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/sichos-in-english/23/26.htm

In sum, then, a rainbow is a sign that punishment will not befall even a particular part of the world, including punishment of a less severe degree than loss of life. Accordingly, a generation that would not need a sign would have to be on the loftiest of levels -- a generation in which all Jews in all places throughout the world behave such that they are not deserving even a light form of punishment! [We] therefore must explain that such a generation consists of the perfectly righteous

Ah, Mr DH, a fair question, given my unusual moniker and bizarre literary affectations. The selfsame moniker is a pseudonym for concealment borrowed from a long ago ancestor, a rogue and a rake, yet I am a true and registered Peer of the Realm, apparently a Baron in the lists, but one not fit for the House by rule or temperament, which sounds rare and far more impressive than it actually is in this day and age when the streets of London crawl (and even here in the New World where I often reside) with déclassé droppings of the nobility. But more importantly, a generous sprinkling of distant Dutch and Portuguese Jewish blood relations in our family bush--rarely spoken of and then only in whispers--has drawn me to things Jewish ever since I was a young wastrel squinting over hand-rolled cigarettes whilst nursing hang-overs in the courtyards of Cambridge. Inexplicably, it is this tenuous connection I have cherished over the years above the usual distractions of service, profession and social duties. .

Mr Mendel, what a generous present of wisdom from you for me to savour and digest! Stand sure that I will never again regard a rainbow without reflecting on this mystery-imbued lesson from you. You are a fortunate man indeed to be an heir to such a rich and blesed faith, living traditions and deep learning. Alas, 'tis time for me to dodder about my daily duties.

Lord, thanks. Much of your word usage is American, so I wondered.

"déclassé droppings" has now been adopted by me. By tomorrow I will believe I invented the phrase.

You are welcome, Mr dh, and think of "déclassé droppings" as entirely yours from now on! Actually, the word-usage you've detected happens to be mostly Canadian, specifically the urbanite Montreal-Toronto variants found among academia and arts loafers. Apart from spelling, Canadian English has been holding onto its regionalisms, whereas you'll find even more "Americanisms" creeping into the working and middle class varieties of English in the UK, thanks to your virile (some would say viral) cultural influences. Unlike the purists who twists their proverbial knickers into knots over such "language crimes," I for one don't lament the natural evolutions of our language with cousins in the Anglo-sphere.

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