Harvey Erlich Arrested On Child Sexual Abuse Charges

The Toronto dentist and Pirchei Boys Choir leader allegedly sexually abused two boys between 1975 and 1980, one of them at Shaarei Shomayim Congregation. Police believe there may be more victims, as well.

Heshy Nussbaum, who was arrested several months ago on child sexual abuse charges, was also involved with that choir.

Comments

[thelionroars]

i am not suprised by this at all
my only question is who was the rabbi that covered up for him all these years

his brother is a gay rights activist and harvey was long rumored to have had a fun time with patients on his dentist chair

[Dov]

I have never seen a country with such a slow legal system. 1975 & 1980 and only now he is brought up on charges! 30+ years later.

[Dina]

I saw Heshi in shul last Shabbos. What is going on? Why is he welcomed (in his Shabbos finery) to participate in the minyan? Why is he even out on bail? What's wrong with this community?

[dh]

You need to ask your community those questions.

[Danny]

To Dov, it's not the country. It's the community that found out about this thirty years ago and chose to hush it up, without offering any help to the victims. Yes, The "rabbi" was found a job and was accepted by the community, while victims suffered in silence. In some sense, we were twice victims: we were victims of the perpetrators and victims of the community which reached out to them while ignoring us. To the board, administration, and rabbis of Eitz Chaim, the Agudah, etc., does "Lo ta'amod al dam re'echa" (Thou shalt not stand idly by) not apply to the victims? Your silence signals your acquiescence, and in that you are also guilty.

[Eddie]

These types of allegations are always a tragedy no matter how you look at it. There is no good outcome and we need to trust the legal system to attempt to find the truth.

If the allegations are true a young child was victimized and suffered a life of pain that will continue regardless of the outcome of a trial. If true the family of the alleged perpetrator are also victims and will face the pain of knowing that soemone they love and have looked up to all their life is actaully a sexual predator.

If false a innocent man's life has been ireversably destroyed. Those who love him will forever look at him differently. If false the alleged victim will face the shame of never being believed and will be treated as a crazy person who has made false allegations.

We have a legal system with all of its flaws but it is the only system we have and we have no choice but to place our trust in it. To assume an allegation is fact is foolishness just as it is foolish to assume that the victim is blatantly lying. The only fact that people like us can state with certainty is "WE DON'T KNOW". Instead of jumping to conclusions try to feel for all those involved that will now have their life ireversably altered. A tragedy for all.

[Steven]

If you are a victim contact the police to put these types out of business and as a disincentive for others.

[Ben Dover]

He claims he was just helping them hit the high notes

[Eddie]

I will just assume you are mentally unstable since no normal person would make jokes by refering to high notes or by using euphamistic names when discussing a topic like sexual assault.

[Nussi]

The lion roars and sounds like an idiot .the fact that Harveys brother acts one way doesn't mean he is the same .if Harvey's brother is a crook does that make him a crook. Stop ruining innocent life's with stupid reasoning .also when you say it is rumored etc it is just plain malicious hurtful slander on your part it's easy to say things anonomsly own up or shut up ,

[Survivor of HN]

Nussi,

STOP PROTECTING THE PEDOPHILES. It's time Heshi, Harvey and any others out there pay for what they did to dozens and dozens of children. Heshi and Harvey deserve to have their lives ruined, for all the lives they ruined period, Your defense of them makes you just as guilty.

Survivor of HN

[Danny]

There is so much wrong with what Eddie wrote that I feel it demands an answer.

He wrote: “If the allegations are true a young child(ren) was victimized and suffered a life of pain.” That is true. So far, five or six victims have come forward. Though we do not know who each other is, we are all middle aged men now (I am 49), who have carried this with us for most of our lives. It affected us—and the people who have not come forward—in many different ways, in varying degrees of severity, but rest assured that if we are willing to go to the police after all these years and reopen these old wounds, something of that pain still exists within us.

But then he wrote: “that will continue regardless of the outcome of a trial.” This is actually dismissive of the pain. Yes, there will be scars, but there are things we can do to alleviate that pain. Recognition by the community at large that we were victimized under their watch would help to alleviate that pain. An admission of guilt by the people responsible would help to alleviate that pain. Financial restitution for the damage caused by these monsters would help to alleviate the pain, and I am talking in very pragmatic terms, as I scrounge around trying to figure out how to pay for my next therapy session. The scars will persist, but the pain can be alleviated.

Then he wrote: “If true the family of the alleged perpetrator are also victims and will face the pain of knowing that someone they love and have looked up to all their life is actually a sexual predator.” This isn’t only painful to hear. It is pure chutzpah. This false moral equivalency goes to the very heart of the problem. The victims suffered, but so did the family of the perpetrator, so don’t punish the perpetrator? What about the victims’ families that also suffered, often without even knowing why their son displayed all the classic symptoms of victimhood? Even worse, however, it goes against the very justice system that Eddie seems to support. Don’t punish the murderer because it will affect his family. Is that too extreme? How about: Don’t punish the rapist because it will hurt his family? Yes, Eddie, we were raped, and comparing our suffering to the shame of the families of our rapists only makes the pain “that will continue regardless of the outcome of a trial” much worse.

And this is only in the “If true…” category. How completely dismissive of the five children who have come forward after all these years. And yet you go on to say, “If false…” as if it is just as valid to argue that all of us—and the many others who have not come forward—are lying. In other words, you are turning the tables and raising the possibility that we are the perpetrators and those two monsters are actually the victims. I advise you to do a quick Google search for “Victim blaming” and “secondary victimization.” As for my perspective on it: by aligning yourself with the perpetrators, you become one with the perpetrators.

And Eddie does align himself with the perpetrators. He wrote: “Instead of jumping to conclusions try to feel for all those involved that will now have their lives irreversibly altered.” No. Our lives were irreversibly altered some 35 years ago. Right now we are simply trying to take some of our humanity back. I for one will not let you deny me that.

[Survivor of HN]

Danny, Well put.

Eddie you will never deny us seeking justice and peace in our lives. You don't own that right, we do.

Survivor of HN

[R. Wisler]

Was this the Toronto Pirchei choir that made all of those records in the 1970's and 80's? They sure raked in the cash on those!

[Survivor of HN]

Dina,

I am the victim that came forward with regards to Heshi, I would love to know which Shul you are talking about. Several victims have come forward and I for one would love to know who is still protecting and respecting him. BTW was he alone? Were there children present and did he have any interactions with them?

Survivor of HN

[jancsibacsi]

Survivor of HN--I wrote many time here in the past that as a 10 year old i was molested that was over 50 years ago and it is always with me i never got justtice the person died and when i was growing up we couldnt tell or talk about it with our parents so i am left with this deep anger especially because it was done by a very religious person and he was very prominent in our city ,molestation takes away a persons soul and kilsl his love for life i know it from my own experience.

[Survivor of HN]

janicsibacs

I feel for you and understand everything you are saying. It took me 40 years to come forward. I was 12 at the time. Therapy has helped me take the first steps in my healing. I finally decided it was time for me to come forward because without receiving justice would mean I could never heal. There will always be a scar but not an open wound that constantly bleeds.

Survivor of HN

[cutitoff]

Word is the new BAYT rabbi put an end to Harvey's Shabbos visits to lead BAYT men's chorus. Given that Harvey was something everyone apparently knew about, how could a bunch of men, including several doctors and dentists, let Harvey lead them in song? How could the old BAYT rabbi look the other way?

[jancsibacsi]

Survivor of HN--You are fortunate to get therapy when i was growing up i never told anyone just this last 3 years i started to tell others its a cruel world and you cannot know it until something like this happenes or other terrible injustice it is very good that you got therapy i am thinking seriously of going after all theese years

[Survivor of HN]

janicsibacs,

Please go and get therapy, it will help you get control over your life and start to heal. I didn't tell anyone for 40 years. Only after I went to the police I told my family. I know how you feel.

Survivor of HN

[MayThe TruthPrevail]

I'm not surprised AT ALL. I've had the misfortune of being a dental patient of Harvey Eherlich (sometime spelled Erlich on the net, including his facebook account - created by him, with his pic and info. he now has a new pic there, I suppose his wife and grandchild). He seemed like a sweet, trust-worthy man. However, after my experiences with him, I came to the final conclusion that nothing is further from the truth. He lied to me in order to get a (seriously damaging) procedure done. Once the damage was done, it was obvious that he lied. At the time, I was shocked, to say the least. Fast forward a few years. I met a girl who was at the time working with him at a clinic on Bathurst & Steeles, where he was apparently working as part of a team. She mentioned him, saying that everyone who worked at that clinic knew he was gay because of the way he reacted with many male patients.
Why am I not surprised at the allegations? It's simple logic. Despite the fact that he seems like such an innocent, nice (and religious) person, he has no morals (what he knowingly did to my teeth... case in point). The fact that people he worked with thought he was gay, means he likes males. This does not make him a sexual offender. However, reading this and finding out that he may be (or is) does NOT surprise me. He has been a disappointment of a person to me. I'm Very Sad for his family. However, justice above all! if there is such a thing is justice. Brave are those who came forward! For all the victims, my prayers are with you! Stay brave and hold your heads up high! I'm PROUD of YOU for coming forward with the truth. Some of us are not as brave to fight.

[Danny]

I only hope that more people do come forward, whether they were themselves victims, or they know of other victims. If you have any reservations or questions about what to expect, please feel free to contact me at Heshyvictim@yahoo.com. I will be more than happy to fill you in on the procedure and tell you what to expect. Obviously, your privacy will be respected and protected.

[jewishwhistleblower]

Harvey Ehrlich is and has been on the Board of Directors of Hillel of Greater Toronto for many years:

http://www.hilleltoronto.org/Documents/Nominations%20for%20Hillel%20Board%20of%20Directors.pdf

[Survivor of HN]

I agree with Danny and back him up 100%, both of us are victims that came forward.

Heshi has been arrested again on several more charges. More victims have come forward.

Both Heshi and Harvey worked together in the Choir. These cases are connected and there are countless victims from both of these criminals.

If there are any other victims that are still hesitating to come forward, please contact me at survivorofhn@gmail.com I can help you and explain the process in an anonymous and safe setting.

Survivor of HN

[Agudah Boy]

They finally got him.

To all the naysayers who were so concerned for the 'innocent' choirmaster /dentist reputation a few months ago, what do you say now?

When i spoke to the cops about the 'Rabbi', she mentioned they had heard this guys name a few times. well it's now done.

Dina, if you have concerns, go to a Board meeting & express your thoughts. I'd love to see all the squirming, firstly because you're a woman (I'm assuming) & secondly because everyone on the board knows & lets him continue to attend. Their advise to him is to ride it out in the meantime, keep a low profile.

[jewishwhistleblower]

Harvey Erlich runs the Harvey Erlich Dentistry Professional Corporation according and has a license through the RCDSO [Royal College of Dental Surgeons of Ontario (www.rcdso.org).

RCDSO Disciplinary Process:
http://www.rcdso.org/public_protection/disciplinary_process.html

[thelionroars]

nussi

you need to take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror
i dont need anyone to fight my battles but my heart truly goes out to the victims of harvey and heshy if i lived in toronto i would be screaming at him in shul

nussi your teshuva would be to meet one vivtim of each and discuss with them what occurred . if it doesnt make our blood boil and hate aguda for the coverup you are beyond help

[Survivor of HN]

Agudah Boy,

Thank you for going forward. With your help HN will face justice. If you are comfortable you can contact me at the address in my above comment. I am in touch with one of the other victims. I am sure we know each other or at least have heard of each other.

Survivor of HN

[jewishwhistleblower]

Harvey Erlich has been a registered dentist since 1980.

He practices at two clinics:
1) York Gate Dental
2) Bathurst-Steeles Dental Office

Interestingly, neither clinic has a Sedation or Anaesthesia Facility Permit.

Dental offices that provide certain types of conscious sedation, deep sedation or general anaesthesia for their patients require a facility permit from the College. The issuance of these permits is subject to a review of the training of the practitioner administering the sedative/anaesthetic agents, conforming with all aspects of the Ontario Regulation 853/93 (as amended), the College guidelines for the Use of Sedation and General Anaesthesia in Dental Practice and a satisfactory on-site inspection and evaluation by the RCDSO.

[pj]

....' and pirchei boys choir ........

harvey erlich must have been abused himself , for sure , with no doubt .
that's why he's been molesting boys , probably dozens , any chance he could get . in the dental chair, too.

how can they let a child molester in contact with children in the choir ?
i'm sure he chose the position of leading the choir to be close to children in order to abuse them sexually.

[Nussi]

To the lion I think you should read my comment again I did not say cover up anything I just said that your reasoning was wrong just because his brother acts a certain way so does he and I told you not to spread unfounded rumors or gossip
If you have fact present them to the proper authorities
I Definently do not condone anyone covering any thing up I condone malicious rumors

[Survivor of HN]

OK Nussi. I understand and I apologize for attacking you the way I did. I actually went to School with his brother who was a great guy back then. What he did with his life is his business and it is in no way connected to this. I always said you were reasonable and I respected that, I may have just misunderstood your message.

Survivor of HN

[Survivor of HN]

Nussi

FYI I am not the lion, I just felt bad about my attack on you

Survivor of HN

[Nussi]

Thank you h n survivor
I will not say I know how you feel because unless someone goes through it it's impossible
But I will say my heart breaks for all the innocent children whose innocents was robbed in this horrendous way
And I understand your anger at the rabonim who covered up instead of getting help for both the. Victim and perpetrater and making sure it never happened to anyone else their beards should be ripped off
I can also tell you that if it g-d forbid happened to one of my kids or grandkids I wouldn't go to the rabbis I would take matters in my own hands
May hasem he lp you to heal and comfort you
I live in toronto and know the rabbis rest assured the will answer to a higher authority
They did not protect our most precious assets our children

[No_Light]

I hope you can all get justice for what happened to you.

Lion and whoever else mentioned it - Being gay has nothing to do with molesting children of either sex. In fact, statistically speaking, they are less likely to do so than straight men are.

The fact that his staff "Thought he was gay" means nothing. The fact that his brother is a gay rights activist means nothing.

Child molesters and predatory paedophiles rape and assault children. A man who assaults young boys does so because he is sexually attracted to boys, not because he is sexually attracted to men.

Think about it this way, if you're a man who is attracted to women, maybe you're married to one. Does that mean you're not to be trusted to be around little girls?

[jewishwhistleblower]

Harvey Ehrlich is and has been on the Board of Directors of Navon Educational Foudation for many years:

http://www.opencharity.ca/charity/129683546RR0001

[jancsibacsi]

Nussi--No one wants to wait that long to be punished by a highter wuthority you are deluding youreself tottaly everyone wants punishement in this world where he did the crime.

[Danny]

Jancsobacsi, I am not sure I want punishment for the perps, even though I know in my gut it would make me feel good. Most of all, I want recognition from the community that this happened, and I want a sincere apology. Whether or not I would choose to accept it is a different matter.

[Nussi]

I was talking about the so called Rabbis who covered up
They will have a special hot gehenim waiting for them the same gehenim they put those dear innocent children through
I wonder if it happened to their kids would they have covered it up
I think NOT

[Dina]

Yes, Agudah Boy, I have concerns. Many, many concerns.

Your shul, Agudah, still doesn't get it. Neither do most of the Heshi-Apologists. They are the Penn State enablers of Toronto. The equivalent of the Catholic Church. Yes, they are. Oh, yes, they are.

I see it every time I step foot in Agudah for a bar mitzvah, a kiddush, a simcha. The way they cover for him. It makes me so sick. And so sad. They still don't get it.

On the one hand, these are the first guys to collect money for the hurricane victims. Ba'alei chesed. Ba'alei tzedakah. Caring and compassionate. Good guys with good hearts. On the other hand, they are the first to welcome Heshi with open arms, providing comfort to him even as he finally faces the music, and as his victims suffer and cringe all these years later. Why can't these individuals, from the Rav on down, show that same caring and compassion for the victims? Who will throw the victims a lifeline? Who will show them that their feelings count at least as much as Heshi's? Heshi isn't really the problem, you know. The enablers are. There would never have been a problem if a truly sick man, who was in desperate need of help, had been dealt with justly years ago. But the enablers covered for him, for the school, for their image. It's the kids who got the rawest of deals; Heshi ended up OK.

So it's the enablers I blame - every one of them. Every Agudahnik who lacks the backbone to stand up for what's right. The guys on Joicey and Carmichael and Haddington and Burncrest and Dunblaine and McGillivray and Palm and Invermay.......you know who you are. Protecting and respecting him. Zu Torah?

Did you know that at the Hachnasos Kallah Dinner, they actually produced a journal profusely thanking him!? I was there. I saw it! I have the journal! They thanked Heshi for all his help, delivering flowers, etc. etc. They actually printed a journal where Heshi is praised and lavished with kavod and recognition. They're not even embarrassed to put it in writing. What a punch in the face to all the victims. How sick is this community?

So, no, I won't be attending a board meeting at Agudah. But I'll be watching and waiting to see what happens. Watching and waiting as I stand aligned with the victims.....watching and waiting....

[Eddie]

Dear Danny,
I think you have misunderstood my words. All I am basically saying is that those of us who were not there cannot know the truth and that is what we have a court system for to attempt to find the truth. It is not to say that there were not victims and that those who are alleged to be monsters are not monsters...It is smiply to say that everyone else is just making assumtions and choosing to believ one side or the other. I choose to not believe the alleged perpatrators and choose to not believe the alleged victims until a court has properly adjudicated the matter and made a determination. And while those who may have been abused are the ultimate victims there are many who are many innocent people whose lives are altered by this the outcome of this tragedy.

[Danny]

Once again, that is a false moral equivalence. I would also point out that the police did find enough evidence to arrest these two animals, not from one person's testimony, but from several.

[MayThe TruthPrevail]

Dear No_Light, When I first heard that Harvey Erlich was attracted to males, that was NEWS to me. When his name came up and he was discussed in 'what a joke' / 'who does he think he is fooling' type-of-way, I didn't contribute what I know of him and what I experienced by him, which was a man with no morals - no ethics. I say this with no reservation. To this day, I'm reminded of him and WHAT HE DID to my teeth almost every day - considering I brush 2-3 times a day and floss twice a day! It's hard to trust ANY dentist after that! This Harvey guy has a baby face that says 'I can't hurt a fly'! I trusted him (who wouldn't?) and he fully abused that trust. It was so hard to reconcile because the DAMAGE was major, and he did this KNOWINGLY! (as opposed to someone who makes a human error. Big Difference. The latter would have been immediately forgiven.) All I said was that logically speaking, his attraction to males + being a man with no morals... I'm SO not surprised of these allegations. With all fairness, there's a bit more to this all - including some other info. from over the years - all of which combines to a strong GUT feeling that I KNOW the truth in these allegations. Suffices to say, I wouldn't make a fair jury member. However, the testimony of what Harvey Erlich / Ehrlich did to me would paint a very clear picture of what Harvey Erlich / Ehrlich is capable of doing... Something which contradicts everything about him - the way he talks, his mannerism, the religious aspect, EVERYTHING! Who could imagine that!? All I say is: I (unfortunately) can!

[elliyahu]

If this is the same Heshi Nussbaum who singlehandedly started the Daf Yomi Phone Line back in the 70s, yasher koach to him. Every positive mitzvah is in fact rewarded in heaven. Your father must be churning in agony, may he live long and healthy...Your father is one of the pillars of hachnosas kallah along with your mother... God bless them... after hearing that Heshi forcibly abused kids in an unforgiving manner; and I'm not just talking casual massaging or rubbing their backs, but forced confinement in a sexual stuff, then that's a negative prohibition and Heshy, Lord be with him till his old age... I hope he finds some comfort in knowing that everything is "bidei shamayim"... let's see how this justice plays out.

[jancsibacsi]

Danny--I gree with you on what you wrote about the punishment

I am not sure I want punishment for the perps, even though I know in my gut it would make me feel good. Most of all, I want recognition from the community that this happened, and I want a sincere apology. Whether or not I would choose to accept it is a different matter.
interestingly i feel the same way as you do just to let the community know and deal with it but if no one wants to even ackowledge that such tyhing happens with that i have a problem and here in n.y. thats exacclty whats happening in the hassidishe communities.

[Eddie]

Danny

Being arrested is a far cry from being convicted. From what you seem to believe why even have a trail. He is clearly guilty so lets move straight to the punishment phase and to hell with a trial and the inconvinience of evidence.While we are at it we should also punish his family and anyone who is connected to him since they probably deserve it too. One additionally distrubing comment I saw above is someone assuming that because they had problems with him as a dentist therefore he likely is guilty of these alleged crimes. Both in halacha and in secular law we embrace the concept of innocent until proven guilty.

[Danny]

Eddie, he was arrested because of my testimony to the police. I know what I told the police is true, and I will repeat it at his trial.

[Danny]

I want to add one more thing. Frankly, Eddie, you disgust me. For all your feigned concern about the perpetrators and their families, you have shown not the least bit of compassion or concern for the victims or their families. Hamerachem al ha'achzarim atid lehitachzer larachmanim--He who shows mercy to the cruel will end up showing cruelty to the merciful. You prove that.

[Eddie]

Ummm...Danny for obvious reasons the identities of the alleged victims are kept confidential and I cannot know about them in the same way I may know those now identified (and their families). Of course I have compassion and sadness for the families of the alleged victims but you don't want my compasison you want me to agree that they are guilty without a trial. If that disgusts you well then the you should be disgusted with anyone and everyone who believes in the democratic legal system and chooses to reserve judgment until a comptent court passes judgement. While you may know what the truth is I cannot know anything till a court tells me what the facts are.

[Danny]

No, because I was one of the victims that went to the police--one of the victims whose identity was kept confidential, but who decided to speak up under my own name in order to put a face to the victims and to encourage other victims to come forward. I came forward only because someone else came forward, and it hit the news and sites like this. I happened to be in Toronto at the time, and within an hour of landing I contacted the police. I spent my last night in the city giving testimony to the police. The fact that people were finally talking about it gave me the courage to step up. In your efforts to silence the people who are talking about it, you would take that from me.

But there is more. I insist that the community knew. Mr. S.K. Weinberg, who abuses the title rabbi, knew. He was principal of Eitz Chaim when that other "rabbi" was removed. The leaders of Agudah knew and removed him from their summer camp. And yet, they continue to be silent. In their silence, they are complicit.

As for a trial, a judge will simply determine if there is sufficient evidence thirty-five years later to convict these two predators. That doesn't prove guilt or innocence. It simply proves the quality of the evidence. To remind you, the only way that Al Capone could be convicted was on tax evasion.

And that assumes that the two cases go to trial, rather than having some plea bargain reached.

Regardless, all of that focuses on these two animals and whether they will be punished or not. That is the essence of the problem. Justice is by nature vindictive. The problem is that no one is talking about the victims, their needs, or the issues they face. Knowing that those two predators will spend the rest of their miserable lives in jail will not eliminate what they did to me--to us--and cause it to disappear. It will not alleviate the pain of thirty-five years.

You say you cannot know anything till a court tells you what the facts are. Bullshit. You can ask the people who do know--victims, perpetrators, enablers, and bystanders--but you choose not to. Instead you express your concern for the perpetrators' families and suggest that the five people who have come forward--without even knowing who each other is--are all lying. Not state, but suggest.

So let's talk facts. Yes, a handful of people did come forward, independently, without knowing who each other is, and gave testimony that corroborated each others' accounts. The police conducted an investigation, arrested the two perpetrators, took them before a judge, and each was released on bail, with certain strict conditions, of which I know some, but will not divulge. In other words, a judge already saw fit to place these terms on these two, based on the evidence that was collected.

Unfortunately, this is not Law and Order, so the legal process takes time. Hopefully in that time more people will come forward, but that entails getting the word out. That entails discussing it openly, and it entails pressuring the enablers and especially the bystanders to step forward and say what they know. That is no less an integral part of the democratic legal system because it empowers the court to pass its judgment. If anything, by discouraging this open dialogue, you are trying to stop that.

[Eddie]

You are wrong to claim that I suggest that the people who have come forward are lying. You are wrong to state that anyone suggests this dialogue should be surpressed. No one wants those who allege to be victims to be silent. To the contrary we want them to come forward and bring evidence to a real court so that the alleged perpatrators are convicted in a court based upon facts instead of in the street with allegations that are unproven. You confuse people saying "I Don't Know and will instead accept the verdict of a competent court" with "You (and others) are lying". That is just wrong on your part. You simply want everyone to accept that what you write and say is FACT. Honest people cannot do that. You are right that a court's lack of a guilty verdict does not mean they are innocent but the average person like me can only know what is proven in a court (or openly pled guilty to in a court) and cannot rely on anything else to make a factual determination. If a plea bargain is made and the alleged perpatrators plead guilty then they are most certianly guilty. You insist that this Rabbi or this person knew but there is no way for the average person like me to know that just because you insist that it is true. If they knew and did nothing they they too should be prosecuted as accesories and their knowledge and / or inaction that allowed this to continue should be proven. If they say they did not know shall we automatically assume they are liars becasue you say so? Do you actually think it is reasonable or even proper for people like me to randomly approach the alleged victims and ask them about what happened to them? You cannot be that naive. To even do such a stupid thing would put the inquirer at risk of being charged with attempting to witness tamper / intimidate a witness. What kind of person would do something so ridiculious and so insensitive? That role of inquiry and evidence gathering is what the competent authorities are tasked with doing (prosecutors, police,judges etc. ....not average Mr. me). You continually confuse FACTS with allegations. You tell us it is fact that X number of people came forward...that they all corroborated each other's version of events....that they did so independently. These are not established facts that someone like me can verify. Only a trial in front of a judge and / or jury can turn these alleged facts into established facts. A judge imposing bail conditions is not a finding of fact. Strict bail conditions are standard in every situation of an individual being arrested and especially in such cases. Thank g-d this is not Law and Order and that the protections enshired in the law to prevent the innocent form being convicted are in place. Keep getting the word out and keep bringing people forward but it is unfair and wrong of you to demand that the average man in the street accept allegations and alleged facts as established facts and convict people without a competent court doing so.

[Survivor of HN]

This is how a responsible organization handles sexual assault by authority figures.

This is the email that was sent out to the membership of Shaarei Shomayim. Did the Agudah or Eitz Chaim ever send something like this out? I doubt it, they had to cover it up. It makes me proud that I was an active member of Sharrei Shomayim during my youth.

An Important Memo from the President

Dear,

Yesterday we were contacted by Toronto Police Services advising that Harvey Erlich, a former choir teacher at Shaarei Shomayim, was arrested on two sexual assault related charges involving two boys ages 11 and 13 between the years 1975 and 1980. The police have not revealed their identities. The police have reported that one of the incidents is alleged to have occurred at the synagogue.

We are taking this matter very seriously and are cooperating fully with the Toronto Police. This matter is currently before the courts.

We are communicating with you to notify you of this situation, and request that if you have any knowledge regarding these allegations to please come forward and contact the Toronto Police at 416-808-3200.

As a community, we are deeply saddened by this news and our thoughts and prayers go out to those who may have been affected.

Shabbat Shalom.

President

Survivor of HN

[Eitz Chaim alumni]

Did anyone contact the Moroccan boys who went to Eitz Chaim in the 70's? Because of the racist segregation practices of the school, they were shunned and very few teachers had anything to do with them. Heshi did not (probably for his own personal ulterior reasons). He befriended them and became quite close to them. It was common knowledge. I know there are some victims in that group.

[Yossel]

Will this really go anywhere? This happened years ago. Is there not statue of limitations? What this will do is have other recent victims of this bastard come forth. Am I wrong?

[Shimmy]

The Ontario Limitations Act essentially gives no limitation period for assaults and sexual assaults:

Assaults and sexual assaults
10. (1) The limitation period established by section 4 (two years) does not run in respect of a claim based on assault or sexual assault during any time in which the person with the claim is incapable of commencing the proceeding because of his or her physical, mental or psychological condition. 2002, c. 24, Sched. B, s. 10 (1).

Presumption
(2) Unless the contrary is proved, a person with a claim based on an assault shall be presumed to have been incapable of commencing the proceeding earlier than it was commenced if at the time of the assault one of the parties to the assault had an intimate relationship with the person or was someone on whom the person was dependent, whether financially or otherwise. 2002, c. 24, Sched. B, s. 10 (2).

Same
(3) Unless the contrary is proved, a person with a claim based on a sexual assault shall be presumed to have been incapable of commencing the proceeding earlier than it was commenced. 2002, c. 24, Sched. B, s. 10 (3).

[peter]

Where does he pray?
Has the Rabbi of his synagogue taken a stand?

[Survivor of HN]

To Eitz Chaim Alumni

I knew many of the Moroccan kids, they were all friends of mine. They are aware of what is going on. If you look at the original blog when Nussbum was arrested there is an account from one of them. I tried to convince him and his friends to go forward, maybe he did. they need to be ready to do something like that, it's very difficult. If you know any other victims please convince them to go forward, you or anyone can contact me at survivorofhn@gmail.com I can explain the process.

Survivor of HN

[Survivor of HN]

Peter

Please read Dina's post above. You will get your answer there. It's disgusting what continues to go on.

Survivor of HN

[cm]

It is indeed terrible what HN/HE (allegedly) have done.
The victims deserve all the sympathy in the world.

However, I ask where does tshuva of the (alleged) perpetrator fit in?

Why can't they have done tshuva for evil deeds committed over 30 yrs ago, and have refrained from since then?

The entire concept of tshuva is that sincere regret+refraining from the sin is all that hashem asks of us.

[Danny]

Chataim shebein adam lechaveiro, ein Yom Kippur mechaper. The first step in any teshuvah is to ask for the forgiveness of their victims. Without that, there is no teshuvah. They have not done that.

[cutitoff]

Nobody has responded to my query. If HN was common knowledge (which it apparently is), why did the men's chorus let HN lead them in song? We are talking about doctors (including a pediatrician), dentists and business people. Did they not know? And what about Rabbi Taub? Did he know?

[darius]

Dear cutitoff

What makes you think this was common knowledge? Did you make this known to the world? Who are you to implicate outsiders as having any culpability in someone else's sins? They had as much "common knowledge" as anyone else including yourself. Please focus your anger and indignation on the allegedly guilty. If you know for a fact that other people knew, have some balls and name some names, including your own.

[Agudah Boy]

Eddie,

Enough already. Danny & Survivor speak the truth. I was in the class below Danny in Eitz Chaim. WE ALL KNEW. There was no allegations, parsing of words, legalese, necessary, it was FACT.

If Danny says the administration knew, they knew. His father was a Rabbi at Eitz Chaim & no doubt was privy to information about what was known or wasn't. Although Danny's father was somewhat eccentric, he was a good man & he's one of the very few teachers at Eitz Chaim that i can say I have good memories about in my 11 years there. I have no doubt he would have or did fight the good fight for his son. I can't imagine what that would have entailed 30-35 years ago.

Danny, Survivor-I admire you guys. Keep fighting the good fight.

[Agudah Boy]

CM,

You're completely delusional if you think these predators ever stopped.

Time for them to pay the piper.

[Eddie]

So Agudah Boy...I am just supposed to convict people and say they are guilty because other people say so? Last I heard that is how people are executed in places like Gaza by Hamas. Shall we accept your perspective and have a public hanging in Lawrence Square next week?

If you (plus the supposed others since as you say WE ALL KNEW) are one of those that have known for 30+ years and have never done anything about it aren't you part of the problem and on some level culpable (maybe even criminally so)? Do you not bear a meaningful level of responsbility for inaction especially if there were subsequent alleged victims that could have been prevented (and even more so in the last 15 years when you were an adult capable of taking action)? Where were the public campaigns by people like yourself to warn the public about these alleged predators since as you say you ALL KNEW? I have lived in Toronto my entire life and am in my late thirties. I have never heard these facts that you suggest "We all knew about".

To you it is a verfied fact and I respect that perspective but the rest of us cannot know the TRUTH simply, from listening to people like you, say it is fact. You make it sound as if those like me who wish to wait for a court to pass judgement are irrational. I know with certainty cases where men have been accused of sexually abusing their children or their grandchildren and it subsequently proven to be planted memory, fabricated as part of a divorce or the actual perpatrator was someone else in the family (often a step - father). Unfortunately false accusations have occured many many times in the past and even if these allegations are 1000% true it is ridiculious for people like me to accept them as verified facts without some competent court making a determination. I admire everyone who has found the bravery and strength to come forward and give statements to the police and prosecutors. All the same I and most other people will wait till we have heard from the court before being able to say we KNOW.

[Agudah Boy]

Eddie,

You're pathetic. Maybe if you didn't have your head up your arse, you'd hear about these things.

I don't know where you grew up, went to school or camp but it was well known to all. If you have an older brother, speak to him. Maybe he'd counsel you on how you speak to people who have first hand knowledge. To somehow turn it around that somehow THEY may be culpable, shows your lack of understanding, maturity & sensitivity.

Both these predators have been charged. There are dozens of people who have been affected, have first hand knowledge & you want proof??? You know what, I don't have to prove s**t to you. If you want to be the heileka yid, giving these scumbags the benefit of the doubt, have at it, baby. You've shown the depth of your character.

enough words wasted on you.

[Eddie]

Agudah Boy... I can totally understand why a victim (like Danny or Survivor) could not do anything publically given what they suposedly went through. THEY can never be culpable. On the other hand someone who KNEW ALL ALONG is in a different category. As Danny has said above those who remainded silent have responsibility. If I had heard these things and had known (as you claim to have KNOWN ALL ALONG) them I would have done something long ago especially if I was directly exposed to HN and knew alleged victims personally. I don't want proof and you don't need to prove s---t to me...you need to prove it in a court. I am not capable or competent to adjudicate such a matter. All I say is that I personally wait to hear from the courts and you condemn me for believing in the core principle of our justice system. I don't give HN or HE the benefit of the doubt I simply say I choose to trust in the law and trust the word of a judge. Still don't understand why someone who was not a victim but KNEW ALL ALONG never did anything (even anonymously say in a letter / flyer campaign to the community). If you claim that everyone knew and everyone intentionally chose to remain silent and embrace the predator maybe your head is up the arse not mine. People did not know and still do not KNOW. A court will tell us what is the facts and then we will be able to KNOW.

[Survivor of HN]

CM

Tshuva, are you kidding. There is no tshuva for molesting little innocent children. In my book its worse than murder, innocent children s souls were destroyed by the very people we trusted the most. Mental murder is far worse than actual murder, you never completely heal. We have to live everyday with the traumas that happened to us. No amount of therapy can make that go away. God says he will help those that help themselves. That is what I did. I went forward to help myself, hoping I would help others on the way. And you know what, God is helping, others would not have come forward if I didn't take the steps to help myself. These two will see justice here on earth and in the heavenly courts when the time comes. My open wound is beginning to heal slowly, but I will always have a scar to remind me of what these monsters did. I will never forgive HN for what he did to me and to so many others because he destroyed the future of many of his victims knowingly.

Survivor of HN

[Danny]

There is a question here as to why people didn't come forward. I can tell you why from my perspective, as a victim.

Basically, I ran. I left Toronto before I turned eighteen and went back as little as possible. In my case, I went to Israel. Looking back, it was probably as far away as I could get as an Orthodox teen. And I rarely came back. At one point, I hadn't returned to visit in seven years. I still don't visit frequently.

Over time and triggers, I began to process and understand what happened to me. Even then, however, I was convinced that it was too late. I thought--and with good reason--that there was a statute of limitations in Canada, just like there is in New York State and most other states in the U.S. I didn't fully appreciate how progressive Canada was as a country.

I came forward by chance. I work in film, and four movies I was involved in were screening at the Toronto International Film Festival, so I decided that this was as good a time as any to visit my mother and attend the festival.

Old friends picked me up at the airport and the story of the first arrest was the first thing they told me. They did not know how much this involved me. Within the hour, I contacted the police.

I continue to believe that there are many victims who have left Toronto and tried to put this all behind them. Like me, many of them likely believe that there is a statute of limitations and that there is nothing they can do anymore. That is why it is so important to get the word out, not only in Toronto but elsewhere.

I am eternally grateful to Survivor of HN for showing me that there is something that can be done. It just takes one person to get the ball rolling, and he was that person. I hope others follow his example.

[Survivor of HN]

Eddie

Many people knew everything. Let's remember one thing here. We are dealing with a closed society that covers up any type of incident that can embarrass them, that can make them look less than perfect even if it hurts other people. The Rabbis reputation is what matters to him/them. They don't care about anything else, even though they seem perfect on the outside.

The leader of the Agudah organization publicly said that all incidents of abuse should be reported to the Rabbis. Why would he make such a statement? A crime in a law abiding society has been broken. Jews are suppose to obey and comply with the host lands that we live in and here a Rabbi is telling us otherwise, publically. Can you answer that?

In the past what happened in Toronto was reported to the Rabbis, so what happened? The victims were tossed aside and the perpetrators were given cushy jobs within the community structure. So how would you interpret that? I will tell you how I interpret it. He was rewarded for his actions and the victims were tossed to the garbage. The religious community was well aware of what was going on.

Let me ask you a question. If you witnessed a murder, I assume you would report it. Would you consider the murderer guilty before a trial? Answer truthfully, remember you saw it with your own eyes. We, the victims are living witnesses to what these two did, that is a fact and regardless of what anyone says to us, they are guilty and so are the people that covered this up. If you were not part of the community, then I agree you may never have known about what is going on there, you have no reason to be in tune with what is going on there. If you told me that you witnessed a murder I would believe you and if you said they were guilty I would agree even before judgments in a court. And why would I agree, because you told me you saw it with your own eyes.

Why didn't anyone come forward? As for me I was a victim, you can't begin to understand what that is like and I was a little child at the time of the assault, so I won't even get into the traumas associated with what happened to the victims. Now, the community leaders, it's simple and you need to be a part of it to understand. It all boils down to fear, manipulation and control, if someone exposed what was going on they would be ostracized and cast out of the only lifestyle they knew, the Rabbis would make sure that these families and or people that went against them would not be able to marry a proper religious person, they would be banned from synagogues of their choice, people who would say hello to them on the street would walk by them as if they didn't exist etc...It's fear, control and manipulations of Jewish law that keep and kept people from going forward.

The reason I finally came forward was so that this evil chapter in Toronto's Jewish history will go through the proper channels, the police and the courts. Why, because the Agudah community let the victims down while accepting and honoring the criminals among them. Still today as stated in an earlier post HN is still being praised by the very community that allowed this to happen, what fucking arrogance what are they thinking, what are they trying to prove. What do you think Eddie?

I understand your argument, but you need to understand that you are talking to victims of the most heinous crime, we have already judged them and they are guilty as charged. Perhaps this is not the right place for you and your argument, if this was a forum where there were no witnesses or victims to these crimes then I am sure you can have a great debate about how people can know things only after a verdict is released from the courts.

Eddie, the bottom line here is, if you really didn't know then I respect that, but I do have one more question for you. What made you so interested in these cases? I suspect that actually did know all along what was going on.

Survivor of HN

[Cage HN and HE 4life]

All this jibber jabber going back and forth attacking the victims is as disgusting as the sick pedophiles themselves. If you would all take a second to actually hear what the victims are saying then you all wouldn't be attacking them.

The fact that it has taken this long for the victims to come forward should be an indication of how traumatized by this sick act of supposedly "religious" people is.

Who knew? What and when? Is just degrading. These victims have it hard enough without you attacking them. HESHY NUSSBAUM AND HARVEY ERLICH your days are numbered. Do they think because they wear a black hat and daven 3 times a day, and deliver fucking flowers is tshuva???? If they are so learned they would know that the first step in doing tshuva is to apologize for your wrong. In this case now NO APOLOGY will be enough. TOO LITTLE TOO LATE!

I'm sure Heshy and harvey will have a hayday in jail. The inmates love pedophiles!!!!!! Kudos to the victims. I applaud you on coming foreward and I am in full support of the victims. These pedophiles had all these years to live, NOW IT'S TIME FOR THE VICTIMS TO LIVE.

Hashem helps those who help themselves. NOT HASHEM HELPS THOSE WHO HELP THEMSELVES TO INNOCENT CHILDREN !!

[Lilly]

I cannot understand how the Rabbis turned a blind eye if they knew of this abuse. Arent the Rabbis the protectors? i understand innocent until proven guilty. However, if this disgusting abuse was happening with their knowledge - shouldnt they be taken to task as well - or atleast be made to answer for this?

[Eddie]

Dear Survivor...From the perspective of you and other victims I have no doubt that you have complete clarity that the accused(s) are guilty of these heinous crimes. IF they are convicted I sincerely hope they are put in jail for the rest of their lives and live a life of solitude and pain.

To be clear I have no question regarding why the alleged victims took so long to come forward. It is a mountain to overcome and the reasons for remaining silent are diverse and many. Sadly I have seen the consequences of child sex abuse upon victims and know how it impacts a person for their whole life. At the same time there are those on this forum that were not victims who say WE KNEW ALL ALONG and I cannot understand how classmates of the alleged victims and friends who supposedly KNEW ALL ALONG remained silent and have never engaged in a public campaign against the alleged perpatrators. These people (your contemporaries and friends) are not part of the alleged "cover up", the "establishment" or the "Agudah machine". Where were these people? How can people like me be expected to take action to shun, ostracize and punish these alleged perpatrators when no one WHO KNEW ALL ALONG ever did anything?

People such as myself are being told to accept these allegations as facts and shun / punish these people immediately without having the benefit of your knowledge. We are being told to ostracise Rabbis and community members because of alleged lack of action 30 years ago. We don't know you personally yet we are beign asked to accept these as facts and act upon these facts that occured 30 years ago when most of me and my contemporaries were children / young adults.

I like most people I have encountered do not know notwithstanding those here that say "EVERYONE KNEW". When these events are to have taken place I was approximately 5 years old. In all my years in the community I have not heard such accusations against HE (and I do not know HN altogether). What makes me interested is that I would never have imagined that HE could be associated with such crimes. Are all of those that have embraced him as friends (who are mainly good upstanding people) part of the conspiracy of silence and wish to harm victims of child sex abuse? As well I have seen innocent people's lives irreparably damaged by false accusations later proven to be false and think that before average people like me are expected to act we need the comfort of the court's verdict especially becaue of the henious nature of these crimes. Have you never heard of people falsely convicted of rape, murder etc. where 30+ years later DNA evidence proves that they were innocent? Have you never heard of David Milgard? This is not an attack upon the victims. This is asking to be allowed to wait and see before being expected ot take action. This has waited 30 years...is it so wrong for those of us who are unable to decide on our own to wait till a court provides us with some clarity / comfort before being able to say we know the truth?

[jewishwhistleblower]

>I like most people I have encountered do
>not know notwithstanding those here that
>say "EVERYONE KNEW".

Clearly there was widespread knowledge in the Toronto Orthodox community. These names have been discussed amongst abuse adovates in the Orthodox community not only for years but for decades. According to my sources people in Toronto specifically asked that Heshi not deliver flowers to their simchas. People on multiple occasions walked out of shul when aliyahs were given to these people. There were "understandings" (broken at times)that Harvey would stick to the adult men's choir and not be involved with any children's choir. My sources have confirmed same over the years and in fact you can hear other confirmations of the widespread knowledge from named others:

1) http://www.cjnews.com/canada/former-teacher-charged-sexual-assault
...
Rabbi Dan Rand, executive vice-president of Eitz Chaim Schools, acknowledged that Nussbaum worked as a teacher at the school in the early 1970s. “After an investigation, we can confirm that to the best of our knowledge, at no time did a complaint or allegation come from a student or parent at the school,” he said.

Nussbaum was let go when the school heard “allegations from a camp that was unaffiliated with the school.

“When we heard of the allegations, he was terminated,” Rabbi Rand stated.
...

2) This was posted publicly by Abe Kohen of NY (akohen@xenon.stanford.edu) on July 31, 2001.

"35-40 years ago the UO yeshiva I attended had a Rabbi Heshy Nussbaum, who
was also a summer counselor at Camp Mogen Avraham. Problem was Rabbi
Nussbaum was a homosexual pedophile. We the kids, who were not his prey,
knew about it, but we did not have the language needed to describe it to our
parents. I cannot begin to fathom what his prey must have experienced.

Around the same time, Yeshiva Torah Vodaas, in Williamsburg, had the Mickey
Mouse Club, where Rebbes and students would engage in homosexual activity.
What consenting adults do in private is their business. But pedophiles
should not be pedagogues.

Abe"

According to a source from Camp Mogen Avraham, Heshi was "suspected" in the 60s of being a pedophile and removed. He went back to Toronto. There are stronger allegations that have been discussed on vosizneias (and since removed) but the Camp Mogen Avraham source did not acknowledge that. I tend to believe otherwise as at least one of the big persons at the Camp claims that he warned the Rabbanoim of Toronto that Heshi should be kept away from children and that his warnings were ignored. Why would he claim he made such warnings unless he was aware of specific incidents in NY?

Of course police were never called by camp officials. They never are. Not in NY. Not in Toronto. I've discussed NY before. Let's discuss Toronto for a change. Over the past years Toronto has had a gang rape of a young frum boy by schoolmates, a young frum boy sodomized by a shaliach with a key to the school (only the latter was reported to the police by parents despite the school staff who tried to conceal it). In both cases, the schools forced out the survivors. There were several Bobover teachers that were told to run to Israel to avoid police investigations of child sexual abuse. The young girl from a frum family that was allegedly raped on Simchat Torah. A yeshiva expelled a student for trying to sexually abuse younger students. The list goes on and on.

Survivors of abuse are routinely gotten rid of by the yeshivot and the Paul Shaviv era CHAT and its wealthy patrons made sure that such riffraff did not end up at its institution to the horror of the poor parents who often came to CHAT as a last hope to keep their children in the Orthodox world. Perhaps the Toronto police should look at lists of children that were turned away from CHAT over the past decades and interview them or their families if they really want to deal with the epidemic of abuse in Toronto. I doubt the Jewish community will as it has the blood of hundreds if not thousands of children on its hands. The fact is that Toronto is no different then other communities that are cold and apathetic. Even the powerful and wealthy are more concerned with concealing their dirty laundry than exposing the pedophiles that prey on even their children. One member of the Toronto boys choir allegedly died as a young man of natural causes despite the presence of cocaine and a prostitute at the scene of his death. How many less prominant men suffered "accidents" and "untimely deaths". Because of course the truth of their deaths and the abuse suffered in their childhood must be concealed at all costs.

Eddie is wrong in that the Rabbonim of Toronto knew what Heshi was and protected him and made sure that he remained protected. The only reason that Heshi was removed from the camps and schools was that he was not careful enough and his conduct became too public. But don't worry, the community made sure Heshi had parnasah. His survivors/victims received no such support or assistance. A few decades ago, supporters/families of survivors approached the Rabbonim about Heshi and Harvey and the Rabbonim refused to do anything. They just pushed the "troublemakers" out. Heshi and Harvey are known to all the established community leadership. As are others.

Eitz Chaim continues its legacy of not reporting abuse to the police by sponsoring a progam with Pesach Krohn who promoted his friend and researcher convicted/confessed pedophile Rabbi Lewis/Lipa Brenner in one of the Maggid Books. Rabbi Krohn also holds that child sexual abuse should be reported to the Rabbonim first. His brother in law, Rabbi Ephraim Bryks, is an alleged pedophile.

See: http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2012/03/pedophilia-rabbi-paysach-krohn-says-ask-a-rabbi-before-you-call-police-789.html

EITZ CHAIM LECTURE
Monday, Sep 24/2012 (8 Tishrei 5773) , 8:00 pm
Sam and Sara Kerzner Memorial Lecture with Rabbi Paysach Krohn, world renowned speaker & author of the "Maggid" series.
Sponsored by Eitz Chaim Day Schools
Beth Avraham Yoseph of Toronto
613 Clark Ave. W.
Thornhill

Will the silent 99% of the Orthodox community show up and protest with a call for its leaders to publicly state that all allegations of abuse must be reported immediately to the police and child protection?

Will the Rabbonim publicly order with speeches from the bimah this Shabbos that the community cooperate with the police? Will they put out a proclamation that abusers must be reported to the police?

Will Eddie and his frends demand same?

Of course not.

But we will continue to expose the indifference of our leadership and expose the abusers, in the US, Canada, Australia, Israel and elsewhere. Hopefully, Heshi, Harvey and others will be put on trial and as a result the leadership of the NY and Toronto Orthodox communities will be tried in the media and exposed for their almost 50 years of documented silence and indifference as well.

Eddie if it is really true that you and your friends did not know it is only because you either walked around with your hands on your ears and over your eyes or the people around you were indifferent to your safety as a child (or the safety of your children/grandchildren when you were older) and kept this important information from you.

[jewishwhistleblower]

>Have you never heard of people falsely
>convicted of rape, murder etc. where 30+
>years later DNA evidence proves that they
>were innocent? Have you never heard of
>David Milgard?

False allegations of child sexual abuse are not common particularly in the Orthodox community. The only documented case I can think of involved Judge Garson in NY who took payoffs from parents in divorce cases involving the Orthodox community. I am not aware of one documented case of false allegations of child sexual in the orthodox community that involved multiple unrelated survivors/victims.

And by the way the standard we use in cases like this in the Orthodox community is raglayim l'davar. We do not wait for criminal conviction to take steps to protect our children.

[Former Torontonian]

To Eddie,

I don't know who you are, or where you grew up, but your whole attitude toward this disgusting stain on the Toronto religious community, is beyond disturbing.

Most fair minded people also believe in 'innocent until proven guilty'. However, these two sickos and their perverted behavior were completely open secrets in the Toronto religious community from the early 1970's on. Despite my (thankfully) being female, I remember clear as day hearing about Heshy, as well as Harvey. These predators were notorious pedophiles, discussed by many, and often, over decades...

One of the worst things about hearing of Heshy's arrest this summer, is that it came as absolutely no surprise at all. I remember as a child hearing that Heshy was fired from his position at Eitz Chaim because he liked to 'touch boys on their underwear'. What did I know as a 10 year old what that meant?! As a grown woman and mother, I am sickened at how it was accepted so matter-of-fact.

Why do I recall so clearly and with such conviction? Because his wife - who left him when the scandal broke - was my teacher at the time. Additionally, as a child, I attended the Agudah with my family, where I remember Heshy remaining a revered member of the Kehila, while at the same time, hearing how he likes to touch little boys. Also, Heshy was one of the most dynamic and popular teachers at Eitz Chaim at the time, and it was extremely curious, even from a 10 yr old's vantage point, why a teacher as 'loved' as he, could be fired, and his wife leave him. No-one in TO at the time DIDN'T know.

I applaud and support those who have come forward. How scary and painful it must be to relive such trauma so many decades later.

Special note to Danny Wool. Kol Hakovod to you for stating your name, which will hopefully embolden more victims such as yourself, to come forward.

So Eddie, please stop pouring pounds of salt on the still gaping wounds of all Heshy and Harvey's victims. Stop doubting that their molestations occurred, just because a court of justice has yet to declare it so. Think how hard it must have been for them to come forward,no only to the police, but to their wives and children. People don't do such things; decades later, unless they are seeking to heal from very serious and very real trauma.

Please lay off the victims, and stop giving at least in these forums) pedophiles the benefit of the doubt.

Former Torontonian

[jewishwhistleblower]

More on the ongoing Toronto child abuse scandals in the Orthodox community and some background:

1) Tuvya Rokach (Rokach's father is a
rabbi in Toronto and was principal of Associated Hebrew School)
...
The Journal News - October 19, 2006
MONSEY - A 21-year-old man has been charged with having oral sex with two 14-year-old boys inside a car, Ramapo police said yesterday. A Ramapo officer found Tuvya Rokach in a car with the two boys at 8:15 p.m. Tuesday, police said.
...

2) Evan Zauder (Graduate of CHAT busted for child porn)
http://www.thejewishweek.com/blogs/yad/rising_jewish_ed_star_kiddie_porn_perp

3) Cantor Alain Oziel (jailed for attacks on boy)
...
Toronto Star - February 4, 1996
...
The victim, now 28, cried in the University Ave. courtroom as the judge detailed the sexual abuse he was subjected to by Oziel at the ages of 13 and 14.

Prosecutor Margo MacKinnon recalled that the victim ``cried out in anguish'' as he testified about what Oziel did to him
...

4) Rabbi Shlomo Carlebach (alleged child molester)
Lilith Magazine Volume 23, No. 1/Spring 1998 By Sarah Blustain
...
When he asked her to show him around the camp, Rachel says she felt, "what an honor [it was] to be alone with this great man." They walked and talked of philosophy and Israel, of stars and poems, and she remembers being "just enchanted." He asked her for a hug, and when she agreed, "he wouldn't let go. I thought the hug was over and I tried to squirm out of it. He started to rub and rock against me." So unsuspecting was she, she says, "that at first I thought, 'was this some sort of davening?'" She says she tried to push him away while he was "dry humping me until he came." And although she doesn't remember the words he spoke, she remembers him communicating to her that it was something special in her that had caused this to happen. "It felt cheap, but he had said thank you." The next day he didn't even acknowledge her presence.
...
Other stories have begun to emerge, suggesting that Rachel's experience was not unique. Robin Goldberg, today a teacher of women's studies and a research psychoanalyst on women's issues in California, was 12 years old when Shlomo visited her Orthodox Harrisburg, Pennsylvania community to lead a singing and dancing concert. He invited all the young people for a pre-concert preparation. And it was during the dancing that he started touching her. He kept coming back to her, she reports, whispering in her ear, saying "holy maidele," and fondling her breast. Twelve years old and Orthodox, she says she didn't know what to think. Her mother, that afternoon, told her she must have been mistaken, and that she must not have understood what was going on. But when she was taken to a dance event led by Rabbi Carlebach years later, while she was in college, she reports that the same thing, dancing, whispering, fondling, happened to her again.

Another story comes from Rabbi Goldie Milgram, 43, today a teacher and an associate dean at the Academy for Jewish Religion in New York City. Rabbi Milgrom was 14 when Rabbi Carlebach was a guest at her United Synagogue Youth convention in New Jersey, and was invited by her parents to stay at their home. Late that night they passed in the hallway. "He pulled me up against him, rubbed his hands up my body and under my cloths and pulled me up against him. He rubbed up against me; I presume he had an orgasm. He called me mammele.
...

5) Martin Hyman (arrested by Toronto Police)
http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2012/07/toronto-man-arrested-for-sexually-assaulting-minor-girl-234.html

6) Rabbi Yaakov Weinberg was dean of Ner Israel in Toronto from 1964 to 1971. His son Matis Weinberg is an alleged child molester ( http://www.thejewishweek.com/category/topic_tags/rabbi_weinberg ):

Student Rabbi expelled for 'causing unrest'
Toronto Star (Canada), Sat., May 31, 1969 p.6

An American student has been expelled from Ner Israel Yeshiva College on Finch Ave. for allegedly causing unrest among studentd at the associated Ner Israel high School on the same campus.

Faculty president Rabbi J. S. Weinberg said Joseph Markin, 22, a visiting student was "out permanently" for "deliberately provoking younger students into feeling that injustices had been done before discussing the matter with me."

Markin studying to become a rabbi, said he was accused of instigating a protest demonstration last wednesday. He said he knew about the protest but did not suggest it or take part.

Rabbi Weinberg denied that there had been a demonstration, but said some people had tried to cause trouble. A mimeographed list of "abuses" by Rabbi Weinberg, including staff changes, was circulated at the high school and the college.

The rabbi said a high school student had been "interrogated against his will." He said he was taking disciplinary action against those responsible.

(NAME REMOVED), 16, a high school student, said he was assaulted by two college students seeking names of those behind the protest.

(NAME REMOVED) said he and 14 other students were suspended for a day on Wednesday morning to prevent them from holding the protest. Rabbi Weinberg said 15 students were suspended for oversleeping and missing morning prayers.

7) Early misconduct in Toronto involving a child, a chazan and a choir

Story of Joseph Shlisky
1894 - 1955
By Rabbi Geoffrey Shisler
http://www.chazzanut.com/articles/shlisky.html
Kidnapped as a young child, 'discovered' while working in a factory, feted as one of America's top line Cantors, and stricken down at the age of 40. Truly the stuff of a great novel, and if the recorded history is to be believed, Joseph Shlisky had one of the most theatrical lives of all the Chazanim recorded here so far.

Born in Ostrowce, Poland, like so many young Jewish boys who could sing, Joseph Shlisky joined the local Shul choir as a small child. At the age of seven he was virtually kidnapped by the Chazan, who told his parents that he was taking him on a tour to London, but actually went to Toronto instead.

After escaping from the clutches of this unscrupulous Chazan, he eventually found a home with one of his uncles, who had emigrated to Toronto.
...

[jewishwhistleblower]

Also:

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2011/12/a-warning-to-parents-and-children-in-toronto-456.html

...
Subject: An Important Message From Rabbi Pliner

Monday, December 19, 2011

Dear Parents,

It has come to our attention that there is a man who was raised in the Toronto Torah community and who may look like a current member of our community who has recently tried to lure teenagers from our neighborhoods and our schools into inappropriate relationships and situations.

It is our responsibility to alert our parent body of the situation as we know it now. If and when more information becomes available about him we will bring it to your attention.

We understand that community members and Rabbonim are working with the police to address this situation in its entirety i.e. to remove the potential danger from our midst.

In response to this information, all three branches of Eitz Chaim are taking the following two steps:

1. To reinforce compliance of all safety and security protocols that is in place, by staff and children.

2. We have spoken to all students in Grades 5-8 about being alert and careful to demonstrate self protective behaviours when approached by adults.

Self protective behaviours include:

1. Your body belongs to you
2. How to say no
3. There are no secrets from your parents, especially when someone says, "Do not tell your parents".

Please follow up at home and reinforce this important information. May Hashem watch over us and guard us from all danger.

Rabbi I. Pliner
...

[Survivor of HN]

Eddie,

You can believe what you want, that's your right. But it's obvious you fail to understand how the religious community covers embarrassing situations up. You were a young child when all of this happened. If hearing a verdict from the court is the only way of confirmation for you then fine. Its obvious you have some sort of connection with Erlich, because when NuusBUM was arrested you were not on any of the forums, you even mentioned you never heard of NussBUM. I understand that you are in denial and that is how you deal with this shock. You don't know how to deal with this and you don't want to believe what is happening to someone close to you. So it's easier for you to rely on the courts then on what the community is alleging. I don't know who you are, but my gut tells me you are close with the family, maybe a friend of one of his kids or maybe even a relative. I see your passion and anger in your comments, you stand by us and yet you look for a way out, a glimmer of hope for your friend, relative or whatever your relationship with him is. Its all part of your process, I understand process and you do what you need to do in order to heal from this shock you received when you heard the news.

Survivor of HN

[cutitoff]

@ Darius. Perhaps no members of the choir nor the old rabbi had any knowledge. I don't know. I merely asked the question. Based on what I've been told by some very, very respected members of the community, such a concentration of ignorance would be surprising and perhaps a statistical aberration.

[Survivor of HN]

JWB

You are amazing, thank you for all of your support.

Survivor of HN

[jewishwhistleblower]

And there are more Toronto jewish community stories, not all have I been able to confirm are or were affiliated with the Orthodox community just with the jewish community:

1) Leon Wasser who was found guilty in 2007 of obtaining for consideration the services of a female under the age of 18 years. He was found not guilty of 6 other charges including similar charges at different time periods, sexual assault and making child pornography.

2) Ivan Cohen found guilty in 1999 on four counts of distributing, and one of possessing, child pornography.

[jewishwhistleblower]

The rabbinical court in Toronto at times deals with issues involving children that raise troubling issues and concerns that the police should be immediately involved.

For example, in one proceeding in 2009 I've been made aware of, a former cheder teacher with ties to Ner Israel was the subject of a hearing before the rabbinical court that was not adjourned by the Rabbis at it was considered to be urgent under the circumstances. The rabbinical court was concerned that the former cheder teacher gave a cell phone containing pornographic images to one of his underage children.

[jewishwhistleblower]

>A yeshiva expelled a student for trying
>to sexually abuse younger students.

Oh, I forgot to mention, that was Ner Israel.

[darius]

Dear Cutitoff

So when did you stop beating your wife? I am merely asking the question.

Don't you see that when you make evil insinuations of innocent people, you cause those people to carry a stain they had nothing to do with. You mentioned doctors, who are likely legally required to report such incidents. Do you really think that someone would risk their practice and professional designation for which they worked so hard just to be able sing with someone they know to be an animal?

It's easy to be a tough guy out here on the web where no one knows who you are. But you have roughly identified a group of individuals and tarred and feathered them in public for no good reason and with no facts. So be a man and identify yourself and your sources. Otherwise, just apologize and slither back into your hole.

[Eddie]

Dear Survivor of HN...Thank you for your respectful comments. I would describe myself as an acquaintence of HE no more no less. I have no anger that he has been charged and would not describe myself as close enough to be impacted in any way personally by the fact that he is charged. I simply know him as a person and would say I have found him to be someone I enjoy being around, sensitive and kind. At the same time none of those positives prevent someone from being a sexual abuser or are any indication that he is not guilty of crimes. My strong feelings are simply that I find it offesnive that we are expected to pass judgement and take action to punish and shun someone before these acts have been substasntiated by a court. I have seen many who have had their lives ruined by allegations that later were proven false and want to have a high level of certainty before I and others in the community are expected to act. This is simply a matter of principle, a desire to act out of an abbundance of caution and what I believe is the right thing to do.

The psycho babel stuff is not really relevant as I have nothing to heal from in this regard since these charges do not affect me personally at all. I am just someone who has strong views, thats all. Ironically I ask you to consider for a moment that what you ask people in the community to do "Pass judgement and take concrete action against these individuals without validation by a court" is the same snap reaction that allows people to dismiss those who claim sexual abuse simply because the abuser has denied the allegations. They don't investigate or bring in the authorities they simply make a snap judgement that so and so could not have possibly done what he has been allged to do. If anything those who have claim to have been abused should respect the desire to act based upon evidence and a verdict since if that was the mentality 30 years ago maybe my more cautious approach would have resulted in an investigation and the laying of charges at that time instead of dismissing things out of hand. Something to think about...

As a side note....Darius...While Cutitoff is wrong to make numerous defamatory accusations from the hip based upon nothing but air demanding that someone identify themselves is also wrong and an attempt to intimidate. Especially your reference to being a tough guy and questioning his manhood. Sorry...

[Survivor of HN]

Eddie

I understand your position as an outsider. No one is forcing you or anyone else to pass judgment. People are discussing how they feel about the community and what happened and what is currently happening with regards to sexual abuse in Toronto. For decades allot has happened in the community , people are discussing their views here in a safe anonymous place, it's a start, at least they are not being silent anymore, their true feelings are coming out about how they feel with regards to the situation. People are angry and disgusted, that is good to see.
I will not participate when names come up that are not relevant to this conversation, I will never falsely accuse anyone. HN sexually assaulted me when I was a little boy. I finally had the will and the guts to come forward, what I want from these forums are to get more victims to come forward. Whoever wants to pass judgment, it's their right to do so and whoever doesn't want to pass judgment the same applies.

Everyone has a story to tell, there are always 2 sides to the story.

Survivor of HN

[Eddie]

Survivor of HN...Well said.

[MM]

After watching the episode of Law & Order SVU which aired on NBC, November 21, 2012 I got the chills. Like it was taken from the discussions above. Teacher, all boys school, cover up of abuse....
How sad.

[Shocked]

I have a son in Eitz Chaim now, and a lot of older Rebbeim still there. Are any Rebbeim there now molesters?? Do I have reason to worry?

[cutitoff]

Q: "Do you really think that someone would risk their practice and professional designation for which they worked so hard just to be able sing with someone they know to be an animal?"

A: Why not? Accredited professionals do bad things all the time. Some of them even get caught. Just open a newspaper, preferably one in Toronto. Others are protected by a veil of secrecy. Hmmmm.....

Clarification, I was referring to knowledge about HE not HN.

[Darius]

Ooh - veil of secrecy!

Now that's definitive proof.

You, sir, are a cretin. I invite you one more time to provide anything resembling proof that any of these guys knew about someone else's double life.

[anonymom in TO]

This is just very, very sad. I am sad for any children who were hurt and I am sad for the community, which has perhaps lost a precious role model. Is this a product of Orthodoxy? Clearly not, though our institutions can and MUST do more.

[Mechilla Pls]

I have followed this closely and was just a couple of years, in the same institutions, behind the victims who have so bravely come forward. I davened at the Agudah and was often in the Nusbaum's house. HN was my teacher at EC. B'H I was spared where others were not. If you choose not to believe it as fact, that is your prerogative. I did not know HE well back then, but even as a child we heard the rumblings (not rumors!). Maybe I am complicit too for not having spoken out against the communities inaction.
HN & HE are sick, and aside from punishment, required treatment. I don't like to say this, because it directs attention away from the poor victims. But, as sick individuals, maybe their ability to deal with there disgusting perversions is limited. BUT, as a community we have no such cover under which to hide. I can tell you conclusively that EC, Camp Ag., Pirchei leadership were aware of these accusations and chose to deal with it internally to save their own kosher bacon and gave little if any thought to the past or future victims. No need to name those responsible here, as we are all aware of who is running the shul, school, camp etc.
Until chos v'sholom it happens to us, we will keep these undeserved men in power (and the women who did not have courage to protect other's children by speaking up)
And, while I can't say that all of the Bayt choir members knew of these allegations, some I know did, as did R.Taub. I am not sure they are any more guilty than me for being silent.
It is sad that the frum community is so frosen from taking the right action. There are so many parts of our community that function well, that we tend to hide behind them instead of doing what we know is right.
The worst transgressors are our leaders (not to minimize the actual victims, but they were victimized twice). As members, we are complicit. And yet, I don't think anything will change. As our world opens up, and I have become more exposed to a more modern part of the frum community, I really see where we are lost. I am more comfortable now with likes of Rabbi Korobkin, Rabbi Gemara and Rabbi Strauchler than in my own crowd. Frumkite CAN and DOES exist in areas we considered treif. I was impressed by the letter someone posted from Shaarei Shomayim. I looked at the NAVON EDUCATION site mentioned, and to my bewilderment, HE is listed with R & R Feigenbaum! Educators! I don't know about his wife, but the Rabbi was aware of the accusations. The school he is in charge of recently had their own issues in this area. I DON'T FOR A MINUTE ACCUSE OR IMPLY THAT THE RAV HAS ANYTHING REMOTELY INVOLVED WITH SUCH BEHAVIOR, but clearly we are still burying our heads in the sand and not being careful with our children. I can't imagine that when my daughter is old enough I would entrust her to a man who helps continue our complicit silence. Enough is enough. How do shul's still have "Carlebach Shabboses"? Even if unproven in court, don't you think the allegations themselves disgrace kabbolas Shabbos?
May Hakodosh Boruch Hu grant the victims strength and bless them with any kind of menucha and shalom that they can accept.
I apologize for my inaction.

[Survivor of HN]

Mechilla,

You must go forward if you have any information and if you know any victims, please convince them to go forward, you can now take action and then you will never need to apologize again with regards to what goes on in our community. I can be contacted at
survivorofhn@gmail.com I can help and give support.

Survivor of HN

[cutitoff]

@ Darius, are you in the choir? Maybe you know who knew. If so, please sing and share with us cowardly, wife-beating cretins.

[darius]

Dear cutitoff

No I'm not in the choir - I can't even sing. I am a victim of HN. And believe it or not, I don't know any other victims. I am sure there are many, but I had no other direct knowledge. I was even in Camp Agudah the year all the shite hit the fan, but I don't know which kid blew the whistle. I'm just glad he did.

And I am convinced that HE is also guilty, not from tripe I've read on blogs, but from speaking to people who have better knowledge than you or I.

My only objection here was to your alleging that people who had any connection to HE must be guilty of something. They MUST have known. Well it's just not true. There are many instances of people living out some secret fantasy lives or actual double lives where they cheat on their spouses or have compunctions to use prostitutes. Sometimes their spouses don't know for a decade or more. So they've been cheated on, they feel abused and low, and on top of it all, they feel stupid for trusting and being made to look braindead by their cheating spouse.

But you, cutitoff ,would say to them - you MUST HAVE KNOWN, after all you slept in the same bed all those years!

So I will stand by my contentions. You are a cretin, trolling the blogs not for any useful purpose, but for the sole aim of smearing the innocent because it gives you your jollies. You are revelling in the anguish of others and trying to destroy people who have done nothing more than sing in shul. You offer no solace or consolation to any abuse victim, nor do you strengthen their voice.

For all the greater good that blogs such as these can contribute, your offerings nullify much of it, as the average reader finds unfounded conspiracy theories as inherently undermining the veracity of the causes under discussion.

You should be ashamed of yourself, but I doubt you ever will.

[Mechilla Pls]

Darius,

As I said, some of the choir was aware of the allegations. I spoke to a relative of mine who was in the choir who had heard them. But, those are allegations, and certainly don't constitute anything similar to evidence. Unfortunately, once allegations had been made for so long without any charges laid, one tends to wonder if there was anything to them.
Now they have been.
As for Rabbis, it is very difficult to know how much an individual Rabbi knew. I don't anyone with conclusive proof.

[Jacob]

Here are the facts. "Everyone" has been part of a nudge nudge wink wink in this community for many years. The jokes between the guys about Harvey are well known. The fondle of the knee and the wink, laughingly, "how's your buddy Harvey?" are up there with knock knock whose there. the fact is that this community has been complacent and turned a pedophile crime into a big joke. The Rabbis of this community who did not act shall carry the burden with them as well. Yes we have to be very careful that we do not ruin an innocent life but investigations should have taken place and acted upon. AND, what about all the thieves that live amongst us? What about those that have stolen millions and are respected because of the charity they give? etc. The point is that just because someone is seemingly a respected member of the community, they must be held to account for their sins. I can personally vouch that Harvey stalked me as a young man when I was at a most vulnerable period in my life and I had to constantly fight him off. It always made me laugh when I would see him in his Jew garb amongst his people. I am sure on some level he struggled with his own sins as we all do, and I have no doubt that he addressed himself through religious vigour and practice and I cannot tell you what became of the last 30 years, if he continued his predatory nature or learned to deal with it. The fact though is that if he ruined lives he must answer to those people. I am sorry for his unwitting family who must endure this with him. Ultimately there is a greater judge than all of us.

[Anonymous]

I am female, married with children and a professional
In last year of Elementary school we had a female teacher who rubbed the backs of some girls, touched the inside thighs of others, and those who had started developing touch the breast area.
This went on for a while Some kids complained to staff and some parents were aware and notified the school, nothing was done.
ONLY when one set of parents marched into the school & threatened to call the police if they see her on the premises was immediate action taken. She was let go the same day and escorted out of the school.
Follow up- 2 weeks later she was working at another Jewish day school as a teacher and in phys ed
Result- I had a normal class of girls, I am quite certain that as a result of this abuse a disproportionally high percentage have had gender identity issues, many unable to develop relationships. They are now the outcasts of our community
I am not a betting person, I would guess that the staff who knew about and have met the Almighty are quite warm, and those that have yet to meet him will have to ask a lot of people for forgiveness.
If only some parents in Toronto had the guts to stand up and face the Rabbis and those covering up…..