Haredim Illegally Gender Segregate BOMB SHELTERS

Haredim in Ashdod, probably Gur hasidim, have reportedly illegally gender segregated bomb shelters, banning women and girls from a building's shelter that haredim have designated for men only.

 

Women presumably have to use the shelter in an adjoining building, meaning they have more time spent trying to reach a shelter than men have.

(The reverse may hold true for the men in the adjoining building, as well. But as bus segregation shows, men encroaching on women's segregated space in times of peak demand or need is accepted, but the reverse is not.)

This causes an unnecessary risk to life that is unequivocally against halakha, Jewish law.

The sign reads, "As per our rabbis, shlit"a, this shelter is designated for men and boys only":

[Hat Tip: Shmuel P. via Israel Hofshit via Enigma4U.]

Comments

[rebitzman]

This actually makes perfect sense. Like any redblooded Jewish man, when I want to pick up chicks I ALWAYS do so at bomb shelters during an attack. I mean the mere thought of women pressed up against me during a bombing run in a room full of frightened people is enough to............

..........sigh.......

[Alter Kocker]

This, if true, demands that the government step in and force gender integration. The time is now that Israel is at war to lose the ignorance and idiocy.

On a personal note, due to the extreme misogyny of this sign, the men's bomb shelter should be closed. May they stand out in the rain of bombs.

[Truth Teller]

Why not take the opportunity to seal the doors shut permanently on these shelters?

[david]

start talking about chamas the way they make metzziza bepeh all abuse all segergation and all the stuff you are busy with charedim
look how they exeecute and drag the person on the street.

[Garnel Ironheart]

Whatever happened to dina d'mlachusa dina?
And you know what, they'll get away with this because the State is too busy to deal with these idiots.

[david]

the door next to it has a sign for woman and girls only so what is so bad y would any one have a complaint

[S]

Haredim Illegally Gender Segregate BOMB SHELTERS

I see no reason why this should be a surprise, they are being consistent. I am sure that if there was only one safe room or if one room would be full they would allow members of the other sex enter. Pikuach nefesh rule would apply.

[Abe]

David,

Because only an asshole would demand gender segregation in a bomb shelter during a time of deadly attacks.

Dictionary.com --word origin & history.
Asshole --(slang) a stupid, mean, or contemptible person.

And that, David, is an apt description of chareidi propriety.

[rebitzman]

@david

They'd have a complaint because it take just a few SECONDS for a rocket fired from Gaza to get to Ashdod. From the time the siren goes off to the time one MUST be in a safe place does not allow anyone the luxury of picking and choosing which hole in the ground they are going to hide in.

[Shmarya]

I see no reason why this should be a surprise, they are being consistent. I am sure that if there was only one safe room or if one room would be full they would allow members of the other sex enter. Pikuach nefesh rule would apply.

Posted by: S | November 21, 2012 at 09:32 AM

Idiot.

Pikuakh nefesh always applies, and therefore it is never permissible to gender segregated bomb shelters.

Tell your parents to ask for your yeshiva tuition to be refunded. You clearly didn't learn anything much there.

[Menachem]

Posted by: Shmarya | November 21, 2012 at 10:08 AM

I am always bewildered by Shmarya's constant assertions that he an eminent Halachic authority.

Will you please tell us your credentials? Where and when did you acquire such Halachic scholarship?

[Shmarya]

Posted by: Menachem | November 21, 2012 at 10:26 AM

I acquired it through years of hard work and years of involvement in issues that are heavily halakha-centric.

Now why don't you tell us how you got be so stupid?

Were you born this way?

Or were your parents and teachers negligent?

Or were you too busy being an asshole to actually learn?

And don't forget to tell us all why my halakhic judgement in this specific case is (according to you) wrong.

Of course, we all know you can't do that.

[Expatriate Owl]

If, when the siren sounds, the men immediately go to the beit midrash and study Torah, then the men would not need bomb shelters. And that has to be true, because Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky said it was so!

[Ken Gray]

I'd love to see the Haredi version of Titanic.
"Men and boys first."

[ah-pee-chorus]

Menachem-

if you believe there is ANY way that halacha calls for taking even one second of extra time to get to a gender based shelter, then you are ignorant of all of torah. further, if halacha DID require this, common sense would dictate you find another set of rules to live by.

[DBSesq]

This sign is so obviously stupid and asinine. A child would recognize it to be idiocy. Moreover, it contradicts the most basic halachik norms, as has been pointed out by many. It also violates Jewish ethos. Because it is so patently wrong, I have to wonder if it is for real, or is it a stupid and cruel hoax. Shmarya have this sign's bona fires been verified? I ask in all seriousness.

[DBSesq]

This sign is so stupid and asinine. It not only contradicts Halacha, as has been pointed out by many already, it also flies in the face of the basic Jewish ethos that we are a nation of "rachmanim, baishanim and gomlei chasadim." It is so obviously wrong, I wonder if it's a cruel joke. In all seriousness, Shmarya, have this sign's bona fides been verified?

[Yanky]

To APC

No in times of Chumash the genders did mix. But thats why Yehudah impregnated Tamar, and Reuven slept with Bilhoh, Yosef almost had a relation with the wife of Potifar, Dovid hamelech's kids were all raping each other.

We need boundaries

[rebitzman]

We need boundaries

Speak for yourself.

Most of us have no problems keeping it in our pants.

[Eli, what me messiah?]

Much as I hate to agree w DBnonseq, he may be right. This sounds a tad like the old candid camera prank of putting men and women's signs above phone booths.

Problem with haredi bizarro land is that satire becomes indistinguishable from reality.

[Balensen]

Shmarya, sometimes I think you're a jaded prick, but you truly do us all a service by reminding us how crazy the haredim are becoming. Keep it up.

[ah-pee-chorus]

We need boundaries

Posted by: Yanky

heres the boundary: dont sleep with a married woman, an underage child, or rape anyone. halacha doesnt allow increased risk to human life for the sake of separation of the sexes. a male doctor is even allowed to touch a female. use your head for something other than a hat rack.

[Ger]

@ah-pee-chorus you made me chuckle :) Perhaps when they are done figuring out which hole to hide in they might consider joining the IDF and learning how defend themselves and Israel.

[The Anti-Schmerl]

A clear forgery or the work of a lone nut. The real face of Ger in Ashdod is seen in the photo of a Gerrer and another Chossid helping an old woman find shelter.

There would be a reference to some rov or another if this were an authorized sign.

I suspect the Shabbaker Chassidim are at it again, though it could be the work of an off the wall former druggie turned overnight BT.

[A. Nuran]

Because if there's one thing that makes people fuck like crazed weasels it's being crammed cheek-to-jowl with sweaty, frightened hordes.

[Gefilte Fish]

Couldn't they just put in a mechitzah?

[seymour]

here is another problem lets say the world blows up and only they are alive how will they have children

[seymour]

A clear forgery or the work of a lone nut. The real face of Ger in Ashdod is seen in the photo of a Gerrer and another Chossid helping an old woman find shelter.

There would be a reference to some rov or another if this were an authorized sign.

I suspect the Shabbaker Chassidim are at it again, though it could be the work of an off the wall former druggie turned overnight BT.

Posted by: The Anti-Schmerl | November 21, 2012 at 03:47 PM

while what you say might be true it is a sad commentary on the ultra orthodox that it is somewhat believable

[Agmas Nefesh]

I am always bewildered by Shmarya's constant assertions that he an eminent Halachic authority…
Posted by: Menachem.

Having read hundreds of posts written by Shmarya, I don’t seem to recall him ever having made such a claim. And although he does make Halachic statements, he treats Halacha with respect - and is usually correct.
Shame that most chareidim (a group that I am officially part of) are incapable of recognising this, and spend energy trying to undermine and discredit him. Would it not be much better for chareidim to stop, listen to the claims and care about them enough to effect real change?
Then Shmarya would be out of business. Which is what they want.
Unfortunately for them, Shmarya has years of business left. Because of them.

[Jeff]

Close tag.

[David]

the door next to it has a sign for woman and girls only so what is so bad y would any one have a complaint

Posted by: david | November 21, 2012 at 09:28 AM

NOTE: This was not me, thje usual David her capitalizes the first letter.

[David]

Sorry, I typed too fast.

Meant to say:

NOTE: This was not me, the usual David who capitalizes the first letter.

[David]

Why do Charedim need to use a bomb shelter anyway, doesn't their Toyreh learning protect them?

Seriously, this is a disgrace and a complete violation of Torah. When the air raid siren goes off sometimes you only have ten or fifteen seconds to get to a shelter. You go to the closest one, duh.

On a positive note, the fact that the Charedim knew they had to go to a shelter implies that at least these Charedim knew that a war was on.

They should be ashamed of themselves when they look around and see a shelter full of able bodied men who should be on duty but instead refuse to fight and lead their sedentary, useless lives, never understanding Torah despite staring at their books all day.

[Bassy the Haredi Slayer]

The real problem is a lack of bitachon, if the men had bitachon, when the alarm goes off they would run to the nearest beis midrash and study Torah, the real defense against missiles.

Then women who are not obligated to learn Torah can go to the bomb shelter.

[A. Nuran]

Bassy, that's an excellent idea.

[Hometown Postville]

I finally figured out what these men are actually doing sequestered in their yeshivas.... they are conducting secret scientific experiments, trying to find a way to procreate without women. To the rest of the world, segregation like this makes them look like pimps, using and abusing their women only to make babies.. Like most oppression, sooner or later there will be rebellion which will mark the end of this cultish clan.I thank God I live in a civilized country that regards women as something more than a hole in a sheet! Happy Thanksgiving!

[frum but normal]

here ia halachik question to all you learned guys out there,
if there is a bomb shelters that only has room for one person,who gets prefrence,the man or the woman?
yes" you guessed it,it is the man who goes in

[Bassy the Haredi Slayer]

Bassy, that's an excellent idea.

Posted by: A. Nuran | November 22, 2012 at 12:31 AM
------------
Thanks, I am trying to offer constructive insight.

[spacedout BT]

If a girl or woman finds this as the nearest shelter while the sirens sound and there are only seconds to spare then this is where the girls find shelter. End of story. Any objections bring to mind the definitions of a Chasid shoteh. Maybe the Vilna Gaon was right after all.

[ruthie]

omg

[Nussi]

Shmaray why do you attack and insult. When someone questions you or criticizes you .not very grown up or professional
I guess you can dish it out but can't take it

[Shmarya]

Posted by: Nussi | November 23, 2012 at 04:57 AM

Please.

When trolls post intentionally misleading comments and lies I respond.

If you don't like how I respond, feel free to leave.

But ask yourself why you aren't criticizing those trolls.

[Nussi]

Like I said you can dish it out but can't take it ,

[Shmarya]

Like I said you can dish it out but can't take it ,

Posted by: Nussi | November 23, 2012 at 12:13 PM

Please.

When someone lies or intentionally misleads, I respond in ways you don't like.

But when someone doesn't lie or intentionally mislead, I either don't respond or I respond in the way you want me to respond.

The difficulty here is that you can't identify the lies or you yourself endorse them.

[Yossie]

Shmarya is A N G R Y at society.
He's probably a sweet kid underneath.