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November 07, 2012

Haredi Rabbi Tells Rape Victim That God Sent Her Rapist In Order To Have Her Suffer To Atone For Her Sins

Rabbi Ravid Nagar“Why should a child be born with a defect? Why are some babies are born disabled? Blind? Deaf? Why? God loves to abuse children? I'm sure not! The answer is simple: World This is a world of tikkun! A world in which we correct past sins, the sins of our past lives. Who knows what [we were and what we did in our] previous incarnation? Maybe we were violent? Maybe we hit other people? We have no idea what we were in our previous life, [and therefore] we have no right to judge the Creator! God wants us to repair ourselves so that we will merit heaven forever! Instead of suffering for many years [in the world to come to purify us of our sins], God gives us the right to stand here in this [world for a] few years and thus it is saving us hundreds of years of suffering in the heavens.”

Rabbi Ravid Nagar
Rabbi Ravid Nagar

Haredi Rabbi Tells Rape Victim That God Sent Her Rapist In Order To Have Her Suffer To Atone For Her Sins
Shmarya Rosenberg • FailedMessiah.com

An Israeli haredi rabbi, Ravid Nagar, caused a storm when he answered a question from a woman who had been raped and sexually abused as a teenager.

In an online forum Nagar reportedly told the woman that what happened to her was an issue of tikkun, correction, for her soul, that took place in this world – “the world of tikkun.”

“Why should a child be born with a defect? Why are some babies are born disabled? Blind? Deaf? Why? God loves to abuse children? I'm sure not! The answer is simple: World This is a world of tikkun! A world in which we correct past sins, the sins of our past lives. Who knows what [we were and what we did in our] previous incarnation? Maybe we were violent? Maybe we hit other people? We have no idea what we were in our previous life, [and therefore] we have no right to judge the Creator! God wants us to repair ourselves so that we will merit heaven forever! Instead of suffering for many years [in the world to come to purify us of our sins], God gives us the right to stand here in this [world for a] few years and thus it is saving us hundreds of years of suffering in the heavens,” Nagar wrote, going on to tell the woman that he hoped she was able to reach a place emotionally and spiritually where she would be able to thank God for the abuse she suffered and the tikkun the abuse gave to her. He also pointed out that a little girl may not be able to understand that the pain and grief she suffers has a higher purpose and saves her from infinitely more suffering in the next world, but an adult woman should be able to understand this.

"I do not understand how God could do that to me. Even though you say it’s my personal tikkun, I'm angry at God. How can you say that what happened to me is a tikkun?”, the victim replied.

Nagar later tried to apologize for upsetting her and many other readers.

"I really apologize if, God forbid, I hurt you in one way or another with what I have written. I have nothing against you personally and I'm sure that God loves you in spite of everything…but you do not try to understand why and instead you just blame.”

Nagar tried to have the website remove his answer or allow him to edit it after the fact, because Nagar realized that it is not suitable for secular Jews to see.

They refused, and Nagar is threatening to sue them for “libel and slander” as a result.

Comments

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fucking monster. put him in jail and let him get raped

He basically says that he is clueless and cannot speak for god. Abe the question should have been presented to. Kablist, they t least claim to know.

What he said is a 100% logical extension of the theological tenets of:

1. Suffering as kapara
2. Blessing God for the bad as well as the good

Most religious folks instinctively take this theology with a grain of salt, and would never say such a thing to a rape victim.

But maybe this is a good occasion to think twice about the kinds of beliefs we want to subscribe to.

God if you are out there show your face to these morons.

The theory of reincarnation as an explanation for suffering has a very powerful emotional pull, look at India. However, the refutation is just as easy (this comes from Indian texts-). Given that we don't recall who we were before, if this were true, we should party and sin all day, and screw the next reincarnation, because we won't feel it anyway. There must be a better rationale for doing good.

Threatening to sue someone for “libel and slander” is a tad difficult when "they" are simply quoting what "you" said..............

"Nagar realized that it is not suitable for secular Jews to see."
I guess secular Jews means Jews who think for themselves and don't blindly follow the Rebbie.....

Brief suffering on earth and not to suffer for
hundreds of years in the next world.

This sounds similar to the Catholic belief....
These rabbis are losing their minds.

That's the one weakness in the Jewish belief in reincarnation. You're back to rectify a mistake you made in a prior life, fine, sounds reasonable that you're being given a second chance. But you're not given any clue as to what that mistake was. How the hell are you supposed to rectify it?

Sarah-Many rabbis lost their minds and souls long long time ago,this moron just shoots his mouth of anyone can make up anythink they wish its all a mind game,he doesnt have to backup anything he utters just talk mindlessly and the hopeless dupes will listen to him the more words stupid words he utters the more money he thinks he will make for him to talk is making his living if only someone can point out how moronic his speach is that would be fantastic.

Well I don't think it is such a crazy answer.It makes sense on
Some level.That doesn't mean the rapist should go unpunished.Maybe this girl was a rapist in her past life. God did let it happen after all and god is all good.Maybe it wasn't exactly to keep her out of hell but it was for her ultimate good.What would you say If you don't
Believe this answer Maybe god was busy at the time and didn't realize what happened???

"I do not understand how God could do that to me. Even though you say it’s my personal tikkun, I'm angry at God. How can you say that what happened to me is a tikkun?”, the victim replied.

My question to this type of answer:

Is Gd a sadist? and are we masochists for welcoming the abuse (violence and hardships)?

he must have been taking the same stuff as Republican candidates for Senate this year...

Whoa! We now have a haredi rabbi who embraces Hindu and Buddhist beliefs regarding reincarnation. Does anyone know whether a belief in reincarnation is found in any of the Kabbalistic or Talmudic traditions? Or is this just the of ramblings of a disturbed mind?

Sounds like this hareidi jackass got his world-view from the movie (starring Albert Brooks (real surname "Einstein") and Meryl Streep) "Defending Your Life".

Lamed,
maybe he just got confused and thought he was ordering milk.

(Re-in-Carnation)

Nagar tried to have the website remove his answer or allow him to edit it after the fact, because Nagar realized that it is not suitable for secular Jews to see.

Of course; we aren't operating on a high enough "madrega" to understand. Toyreh education = secret decoder ring.

Does anyone know whether a belief in reincarnation is found in any of the Kabbalistic or Talmudic traditions?

Yes.

Or is this just the of ramblings of a disturbed mind?

Yes.

"thank God for the abuse" .... does he have a daughter?

Jonkamm --GoD IS A MIND GAME AND THE FOOL THAT YOU ARE, ARE DUPED TO PLAY THAT AGELESS MIND GAME.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but reincarnation is not a universal Jewish belief. Only kabbalists believe it. I don't think it's in the miqra.

When said properly, i.e. that everything that happens in the world has some purpose, even suffering, such sentiment can be comforting in many instances. It was precisely such ideas that helped cope with the loss of my father when I was 15 years old. And in some way such ideas, that all things come from a benevolent G-d, provided our family a modicum of comfort when we suffered the loss of a parent this past summer. But as R. Hutner once famously said, "A bar da'as [someone who has insight] does not walk into a shiva house and proclaim 'Gam zu letovah' [this too is for the ultimate good of the world]." Sensitivity, empathy and dignity for the suffering have to be emphasized more than explaining theodicy.

why are we even listening to this idiot?
i'm not even going to acknowledge his presence.
DBSesq: well written/said..thanks


"Sensitivity, empathy and dignity for the suffering have to be emphasized more than explaining theodicy.

Posted by: DBSesq "

Daniel, what about sensitivity, empathy and dignity for the thousands of East Ramapo students you have robbed of an education and possibly ruined their lives as President of East Ramapo School Board? How is it comforting to know you have plummeted our home real estate values and make it more difficult for us to live while you enjoy a life of luxury on our dime?


If there is anyone on this blog who believes in God, please answer the following question:

Why do good people have it hard, and bad people have it good. This is a question that's been bothering me for quite a while.

Another question:

Why did God create the world in such a way that it is "natural" for animals to eat each other for food. Why should animals have to go through the pain of being eaten alive simply so that another animal could relieve its hunger pains.

And for a mother to have her cubs eaten in front of her eyes, why did God make this natural?

I'm asking this as a serious question from those who believe in God.

Thanks.

R. Ravid Nagar:
Fuck you and the horse you rode in on!

How dare you add injury to injury. Do you have any compassion in your heart or are you so full of Haredi dogma that the thoughts and feelings of other human beings totally escapes you? If Hashem is remotely interested he would send you rapist after rapist, torturer after torturer for the vile and evil thoughts that spewed forth from the mush-melon you call a head.

I did not know a belief in reincarnation was part of Judaism. How "interesting."

devorah,

wait! what?
this guy messed up east ramapo?
thanks for letting me know.
east ramapo school district was thrown into the garbage by people
like this guy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *loud scream*

Yes, Ruthie. Hope you are doing well. I have power now if you need anything....and a full tank of gas!!!! $3.53 a gallon on GSP (exit 172)at Sunoco if you have a Sunoco card. It's still $4.59 on Rt 59 in Nanuet.

haredi rabbis tell ppl b.s. they always hide behind g-d to give an explanation .

haredi rabbis are the ones who sin the most . they'll burn in hell.

Ravid Nagar deserves to be anally violated by a dozen heavily endowed rapists each with a different STD. And each should whisper in his ear "It's God's punishment for your sins"

According to the article, Rabbi Nagar is threatening to sue the website, KikarShabbat for libel and slander. Typical of such lowlifes is to spew venom and insist, when caught, that those who reveal the truth are unfair because they are depriving him of Etch-A-Sketch privileges.

Let him go work for the Romney campaign; his views will fit right in there...oh yeah....there is no more Romney campaign.

Pity.

Indeed, reincarnation is a part of Kabalah. The concept of gilgul neshamot is found in many many writings of the Kabalah.

It is also brought down in hundreds of Chassidic texts.

There are also mentions of neshamot and tikun in the Gemarah.

It's a Jewish concept.

What is not a Jewish concept is simple answers to complex questions.

When someone asks why they were raped, the wrong answer is because it's a tikun for your soul.

pssssst...rabbi, there is no god and if there were your comments make him out to be a sadistic monster. thanks for playing.

: Lubavitchers are Christians -

how'd the romney landslide work for ya?

OOPS!

Real dark humour

"""I did not know a belief in reincarnation was part of Judaism. How "interesting."""

For instance: Of the 250,000 Hun soldiers at Stalingrad and only 5,000 came back from Soviet POW camp...

Where do you think some of those souls were reincarnated into Take a guess

Jeff managed to make it through a whole post without wishing someone's parents had died in the Holocaust. I'm almost proud of him.

Why does God allow people to harm other people? Free will. Humans have good and evil placed in front of them to make their best choice. You want a world where all is good, nobody ever dies, no harm can come to anyone? Such a place exists. We call it heaven. But this is Earth. On Earth, you're a bald monkey with half a brain and a head full of bullshit. On Earth, people make very bad choices. Because we're stupid ignorant monkeys that can't see past our own physicality.

Blame God for the choices that humans make? How can you do such a thing and simultaneously claim to make your own choices?

Excelsior!

The shm-ck looks like an antisemitic caricature straight from Der Stürmer.

Orlanoar.com (where the question was answered) and rabanim.net are the Israeli equivalences of http://www.jewswithquestions.com/ (formerly frum teens)

God should send this guy lifelong erectile disfunction so he can atone.

another horse's ass

When he calls this brutal rape "rectification", how on earth could he possibly know exactly how she was raped???

Sounds like he learned a smattering of Kabala and never opened Sefer Neviim

Excelsior!

Posted by: Korben Dallas | November 07, 2012 at 07:02 PM

Your theological opinions, like your political opinions, are childish. You're operating on a very primitive level, which naturally, you can't see.

Your exclamations of victory, uttered each time you think you've decimated your opponents, would be amusing if they weren't so pitiable.

You're a sad, not overly bright little man.

Lubavitchers are Christians | November 07, 2012 at 01:22 PM

Good question. I know that Gd rules the world. Also, Some times what we think is a negative ends up as a positive. However, lessons do not have to be learned via a negative experience.

The question I posed earlier on this thread presents a real question in my mind. If Gd inflicts us with horrible pain
(ex. rape, loss of children) and we are supposed to accept it as part of his divine plan, because He likes the prayers of the righteous?

Does that mean that Gd is a sadist and believers are masochists?

I can't accept that rape can be acceptable as a tikun, deserving because of past life behavior. Are those explanations just a means to comfort us so we can understand the reason for our suffering?

I only understand one thing,
that people are the of cause needless suffering to others- yes they are responsible.
But why then does G-d step in and make miracles when He chooses to - why not help all the time?
About the insensitive jerk that told that poor woman she basically deserved it- You aren't a Rabbi, a teacher, a fellow human and you don't represent me as a Jew or a person of this world.
It's easy to quote and preach, but try walking in another shoes.
Feel her pain , her shock and her confusion. And you have given her another reason not to trust a man. Where the hell is your Ahavas Yisroel? Your compassion and heart?
The nerve of the idiot to threaten that he will sue , He voluntarily wrote his response - He has no one else to blame but himself.
I can't stand sanctimonious self-righteous prigs like him.
And no they shouldn't remove his comment, so that others can see what an idiot he is and not contribute to places where he and others like him run organizations.

Is it possible that this entity, G-d, has a characterization that was informed by people suffering indescribable burden and pain who found within that the respite and meaning, solace and comfort they needed to help carry them through the hardest of times; that humans gave forth the G-d they wanted instead of the G-d they had?

what - an - idiot, you have rediscovered the theodicy, upon which the greatest theologians in history have broken their teeth.

what - an -idiot! | November 08, 2012 at 10:49 AM

Excellently put.

Your exclamations of victory, uttered each time you think you've decimated your opponents, would be amusing if they weren't so pitiable.

You're a sad, not overly bright little man.

Posted by: Jeff | November 08, 2012 at 06:41 AM

And now, Jeff shall successfully disprove the existence of God with help from his leftist friends shortly before he wishes my ancestors had died in the Holocaust. And he calls himself a Jew!

Must be nice to be politically correct about everything. You can dispose of morality, truth, even reason! Your target is automatically a subhuman, and does nor deserve the respect of an inner party member such as yourself.

You're cery easy to bait, you know. You're part of a collective and most of your mind doesn't actually belong to you, but you're not aware of it and quickly spin into a frothy genocidal rage as you morally superior leftists are wont to do.

I am going to have so much fun with you.

The rabbi is no better than the Republican refried jesus-wheezers who raved about "legitimate rape" and pregnancies resulting from rape being "God's will". These idiots are all the same.

I am going to have so much fun with you.

Posted by: Korben Dallas | November 08, 2012 at 05:19 PM

sadistic

(one sided condemnation - leftist tactic used in media against israel)

& vice versa

I think we are confusing some very different thing. I’m not looking to justify anyone’s statements. What I think Nagar wanted to say (albeit inartfully) is that everything that happens to a person in this world – positive or negative is pre-planned by Almighty G-d and is ultimately for the true benefit of the person to whom this event happened. This is what is called: Hashgacha Pratit. This is a far cry from justifying the behavior and actions of some dirt bag who chooses to inflicts unthinkable pain and suffering on a innocent person.

In short, the person who harms another human being is the lowest of the low, and should be punished. But as a believer, the victim believes that the fact that this already happened to him/her it was planned by Hashem and ultimately for this persons benefit. Can it be understood by us? The answer is NO. this is what our Prophet Isaiah (12:1) sais: ואמרת ביום ההוא אודך ה' כי אנפת בי – these are things that we will only be able to understand and appreciate at the time of Redemption by Mashiach.

Posted by: Lubavitchers are Christians | November 07, 2012 at 01:22 PM

Here are some articles I found regarding the question - Why, oh why, do bad things happen to good people? I found some of them interesting.


Also, here are some articles regarding Judaism and Reincarnation you may find some of it useful

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