« Wendy Runge Loses Appeal, Will Serve 10 Year Sentence | Main | Israel's Sefardi Chief Rabbi Bans Special Bug Free Super Kosher Vegetables »

November 05, 2012

Did American Jewish Ex-Pats In Israel Overwhelmingly Vote For Romney?

Mitt-RomneyAnd if they did, why did they do it? The answers may (or may not) surprise you.

Mitt-Romney

Writing in Ha'aretz, Chemi Shalev discusses the meaning of a recent disputed exist poll that shows that 85% of American Jews living in Israel voted for Mitt Romney. Noting that American expats in Israel have left behind the day-to-day American issues that so concern Americans living in America, Shalev points out that many American Jews living in Israel are one issue voters when it comes to American elections.

But the influences that govern that one issue may, if you are not closely in tune with the American Jewish community in Israel, surprise you:

…American immigrants…are, as a general rule, more Orthodox, more conservative and much more hawkish than the American Jewish community they left behind. A large number of American-born Israelis live in settlements in the territories, differentiating them not only from the American Jewish community, but from most Israelis as well.  They fit the profile…of the minority of American Jews who have been voting for Republicans anyway.  And while they may not admit it, much of their animosity toward Obama derives not from his alleged hostility to Israel itself, but from his opposition to the settlements in which they live and to the one-Jewish-state solution of which they dream. Their low opinion of Obama…isn’t all that different from their disdain for fellow Israelis who insist on believing in peace with Palestinians.

…[M]ost Americans living in Israel [are] Orthodox: They don’t believe in separation of religion and state and are quite happy…to live in a country in which the Orthodox rule. Many of them…see eye to eye with conservative Christians on the corrosive influence of decadent liberal secularism.…

Americans living in Israel…couldn’t care less about …[the domestic] social issues that are dear to the hearts of American Jews and that have defined the American Jewish experience for over a century. Most citizens of foreign countries don’t care about these issues, either, which is quite understandable; but they don’t tell Americans how to vote….

There are layers of chutzpah here. The first is the arrogance of telling American Jews that their own lives and their own interests and their own beliefs are insignificant and should be cast aside because some Jews – far from all – don’t like Obama’s attitude towards Israel.…

In other words, many American olim are über-hawks whose political positions are to the right – often far to the right – of the average Israeli.

In part this is driven by the fact that many of these olim came to Israel because of already existing deep ideological and religious commitment. But it's also due to the flip side of this coin: the mechanism for promoting, encouraging and helping Americans to make aliyah is largely run and controlled by people who share much, if not all, of those ideological markers themselves.

For example, Nefesh B'Nefesh helps almost everyone who wants to make aliyah but it arguably favors those who are right of center politically and religiously.

Centrist Orthodox synagogues celebrate people who make aliyah as does Yeshiva University's rabbinical school. (This was much less the case when Rabbi J.B. Solevechik was alive and well.) Haredim make aliyah or move to Israel to live for various reasons. However, their philosophy and worldview when it comes to Arabs and peace aligns much more closely with Israel's hard right than with Israel's moderate right, center or left. The most rabidly anti-Zionist Satmar in Brooklyn still has more sympathy for Jewish settlers clashing with Arabs than they do for the average Jewish resident of Tel Aviv or Haifa.

By contrast, few non-Orthodox Jews make aliyah. Those that do are often young and single. They are rarely encouraged or supported by their communites, and once in Israel they find themselves submerged in a much larger expat community that is often farther right politically and religiously than they are. More of them will vote for Obama than will their Orthodox and haredi counterparts. But they are in the minority and almost wholly unsupported by the aliyah apparatus.

The American expat community in Israel's preference for Mitt Romney is really a reflection of the Centrist Orthodox and haredi American communities' preference for Romney, and Likud's preference for Romney, just as it is a rejection of Israel's center and left and America's non-Orthodox Jewish leadership.

Shalev is correct – it is largely a one-issue vote.

But the dirty secret Shalev doesn't write about is that many of the Jewish votes that will be cast for Romney in Teaneck and Crown Heights are also one-issue votes or very close to them.

These votes will be cast for federal and state funding of religious institutions and schools;, for an erosion of the separation between religion and state; a vote against equal rights for people viewed by Orthodox and haredi Jews as sexual sinners; a vote against minority groups of color who seem to be gaining, in the eyes of many on America's right, too much political and social power; and votes for a religiously based morality and against a secular rational morality and social compact.

But more than any of that, they will be votes cast in support of their version of Israel, of an Israel that does little or nothing wrong to Arabs but which is frequently wronged by them, an Israel which is almost always in the right; votes in support of Likud and parties to its right and against Kadima and parties to its left; votes cast against the Arabs, against the Europeans; votes cast against moderates and for those with more extreme views.

The Modern Orthodoxy of J.B. Soleveichik wasn't this way. The haredism of the haredi rabbis of the 1950s through the 1970s wasn't this way.

But things have changed, arguably for the worse and likely for decades to come.

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

On the other side of the coin, you've got the African-American vote which is now at approximately 99% for Obama. No other demographic comes remotely close.

Even the supposed extreme right wing Americans living in Israel are only voting 85% for Romney.

But 99% for Obama????? Quite strange.

Unless, of course, the African-American community is a one-issue voting community: Race. Very sad indeed.

(The settlers are at least voting for their own safety. We may not agree with their decision to live in the settlements; but now that they've made their decision, their vote makes sense.

African Americans, on the other hand, are voting for Obama purely for racial reasons. He's black - I'm black - Obama got my vote. How did we become such a racist society? )

I would guess that the majority of Americans living in Israel are conservative, whether they are Jewish or not.

Posted by: Lubavitchers are Christians | November 05, 2012 at 11:43 AM

We can't generalize that black people are voting solely on the basis of the candidate's race, since 90% of black voters almost always vote Democrat, even though so far the Democratic candidates have all been white.

Did American Jewish Ex-Pats In Israel Overwhelmingly Vote For Romney?

I don't know since the elections aren't until tomorrow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWzCmeURev0&sns=em

That's all I have to say.....!

First of all shushi yes we can generalize black ppl vote on race because black ppl r suffering in this economy and they r still supporting the incumbent cause he is black.

Secondly can u read minds and say that they are all single issue voters? How do u know that the Jewish expats in Israel aren't also social and economic conservatives?

Sloppy journalism here.

Same nonsense as yesterday.

To shamarya, if you vote against a liberal, you must be some right wing wacko. Never mind that Obama (after calling Bush unpatriotic for raisng the deficit by $4TT is 8 years) raised the deficit by over 5TT in less than 4 years. Never mind that no one can find a job, and millions are underemployed. Never mind that there are 42 million people on food stamps.

And to Jewish ex-pats, never mind that virtually all Israelis view Obama as the most anti-Israel president in history.

You see, to SR, none of this matters. If you don't vote liberal democratic, you are a right wing wacko.

Posted by: cheers | November 05, 2012 at 12:22 PM

Please.

No sane or honest person makes the claims you make.

When Obama took over, the economy was in free fall, the worst hit it had taken since the great depression.

All the economic indicators are much better now than then.

The problem is that you and so many people like you are so ignorant of history and of economics and even of civics that you don't realize how foolish you sound to educated people.

Romney has chosen to lie. He has chosen like Mitch McConnel and Eric Cantor, to lie in order to gain or retain power.

Obama is not perfect and his choices were not all perfect.

But the claims you make in the context you make them is simply false.

thank you s

You are correct. Not all blacks are supporting Obama. The nation's first black governor has decided not to endorse Obama this time, even though he endorsed Obama in 2008.

He's from the evil 1%'ers of African Americans who are supporting Romney.

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/2012/nov/04/wilder-chooses-not-endorse-president-ar-2335331/

I was going to suggest that the US haredi that make aliyah may also favor Romney because they see him as more likely to reduce the burden of taxes on their foreign-earned income.

but then I realized that would require declaring an income on which to pay taxes in the first place...

Actually, Obama is hugely unpopular among most Israelis, whether US or Russian immigrants or native born. If it's any consolation, this sentiment will, in all likelihood, lead to the election next January of a Netanyahu-led secular-right wing government which will finally break Haredi control of Israeli society.

SR wrote: "But the dirty secret Shalev doesn't write about is that many of the Jewish votes that will be cast for Romney in Teaneck and Crown Heights are also one-issue votes or very close to them."

It is not such a secret. In 2008, McCain won over 90% of the votes cast in Kiryas Joel and New Square, the Haredi communities north of New York City. The residents there support school vouchers for religious schools, oppose gay marriage and oppose abortion, just as their Christian Evangelical counterparts do. They are a good proxy for the entire Haredi community's voting patterns. McCain did better in these Haredi communities than he did among Evangelical and Born Again Christians (73%). He only receved about 53% of the overall Arizona vote.

You can be reasonably sure that the Bush tax cuts were not of great interest in the Haredi communities, as the residents there are among the poorest in the US based on reported income and family size.

Hurricane sandy is obama's Katrina.

they voted for Romney,because unlike Shmaryah,they are not criminally insane self loathing self hating suicidal leftist idiots.
Hussein Obama,is not only a danger to Israel,but also a danger to his own country and the rest of the free world

"Centrist Orthodox synagogues celebrate people who make aliyah as does Yeshiva University's rabbinical school."

Why don't Conservative and Reform synagogues celebrate people who make aliyah? Why don't JTS and Hebrew Union College celebrate people who make aliya?

Or do they? Anyone know?

SR: "All the economic indicators are much better now than then."

With all respect S, you might be a bright guy, but economics is simply not your forte. Aside from the fact that your statement is 100% wrong, I bet you couldn't even name 10 economic indicators off the top of your head. Here are just a few crucial ones:

Hourly earnings down
Housing starts down
Unemployment rate up
Crude oil (meaning gasolinr prices) way up
Monetary Base up huge (more than tripled!)

What this means in plain English is this: Obama has spent trillions in order to revive the economy. As such, our deficit has exploded. Despite this, job growth is anemic. The unemployment rate is still almost 8%. Clearly, no matter how you try to spin this, the average American is worse off today than when Obama took office.

Obama spent most of his first three years blaming Bush for everything. (except killing Bin Laden, where he gratiously took all the credit). At some point, you have to be responsible for your own actions. I do agree that the economy was a mess when Obama took over. However, it is also clear that he has not made much, if any, improvement. And this despite the fact he had control of both houses of congress for his first two years. Instead of working on real solutions, Obama focused on two main issues: redistributing the wealth and obamacare (despite the fact that the majoority of the country opposes it, even at the time it was passed).

Well, he has had his day in the sun. And he has clearly failed, by any economic measure you wish to look at. People are worse off. I'm not even going to get into what a disaster he has been in foreign policy, where he is friends with dictators like Putin and Morsi, and has achieved nothing in terms of the Middle East (other than it is clearly more radical Islamic today than when he took office).

Is it any surprise Israelis would vote for Romney?

And let me add this: If you consider to spend wothout consideration for how you are going to pay back your debts, you will eventually create an untenable situation where no one will lend to you. Although this hasn't happened yet, it will unless spending gets under control. If not, take a look at Greece, Spain or Portugal to see what happens when lenders won't buy your bonds. Think the unemployment rate is bad now? The Spanish unemployment rate is now 25%! Over 50% of the people under 25 can't find jobs. What do you think will happen next? I can almost guarantee, if history is any guide at all, a huge increase in crime, riots, and radical politics. It even happened here in the 1930s. Is that really the direction you want this country to go?

This is not scientific, just anecdotal:

Just from the responses on FM, it looks like a huge Romney landslide. Even the Obama supporters don't really support Obama, they just don't think Romney is any better.

The enthusiasm gap is very telling.

(Just as scientific as any CNN or MSNBC online poll.)

"I have solved this political dilemma in a very direct way: I don't vote. On Election Day, I stay home. I firmly believe that if you vote, you have no right to complain. Now, some people like to twist that around. They say, 'If you don't vote, you have no right to complain,' but where's the logic in that? If you vote, and you elect dishonest, incompetent politicians, and they get into office and screw everything up, you are responsible for what they have done. You voted them in. You caused the problem. You have no right to complain. I, on the other hand, who did not vote -- who did not even leave the house on Election Day -- am in no way responsible for what these politicians have done and have every right to complain about the mess that you created." - George Carlin

I am not sure you can do any justice to justify a vote for Romney with Torah Values. Torah dictates we understand trust in a higher power as well as dignity and honor. Mr. Obama seems to have a face of dignity and his ship is sailing into prosperity in the future as we continue programs that are essential to healthy communities.

The Black vote is driven by a realistic appraisal of the positions of the two parties on racism and on civil rights. when the republicans were the party of Lincoln they voted Republican. When LBJ supported the civil rights act in 1965 Republicans began harvesting the southern racist vote and Nixon intensified and cemented the shift with his southern stragtegy of appealing to racism. The Republican party has evolved into a party hostile to civil rights (apart from its class warfare which they then then whine about in others).

So African Americans, who are not dumb usually vote for Democrats. Naturally, a candidate who is Black will evoke more affection. But you can bet your bottom dollar that Herman Cain would not have gotten a very high percentage of the Black vote.

westernjew: "Obama seems to have a face of dignity and his ship is sailing into prosperity in the future as we continue programs that are essential to healthy communities."

Are you kidding me? Do you really believe that 8% unemployment and 42 million people on food stamps are examples of healthy communities? In my world, healthy means jobs, homes and pride. I have no idea what this means in your world.

Dude, give up the crack pipe.

First of all shushi yes we can generalize black ppl vote on race because black ppl r suffering in this economy and they r still supporting the incumbent cause he is black.

Black people have always been suffering economically, yet continued to vote for the WHITE Democrats up until now. . .

Posted by: cheers | November 05, 2012 at 01:36 PM

Please.

Everything was crashing before Obama took over.

After all the damage of the Bush years and the housing bubble and bank's disgusting behavior (and Bush's refusal to enforce regulations that could have limited some of that), Obama brought sanity back to system.

Jobs are up, not down.

Housing starts are up again.

Unemployment is about the same as when Obama took over, but the first two quarters (at least) of his administration can't be attributed to his policies because policies take time to be passed and implemented. Calculated this way – which is how most economists do it, unemployment is down.

And unemployment would be much further down if Republicans hadn't forced the layoffs of teachers, police, firefighters and other public employees across the country and in DC.

People who get their educations from Rush Limbaugh and Fox 'News' might think you make sense – but you don't.

No economist or expert on finance that I've communicated with agrees with your lies.

Obama is not perfect – far from it.

But Romney's position on social welfare – food stamps, housing assistance, etc. – is opposed to the positions the Torah and halakha clearly take.

And Romney's near-constant lies, his shape-shifting to suit whatever audience he's speaking to, is also something the Torah and halakha clearly opposes.

Add to that the complete inability of Romeny and the Republican party to admit having any responsibility at all for the crash when well over 90% of economists blame Bush's policies and the Republican party's refusal to raise taxes on upper income Americans while at the same time cutting their taxes and loosening or failing to enforce regulations meant to prevent Wall Street abuse for that crash.

Vote for whomever you choose but please – stop lying.

"Now, there's one thing you might have noticed I don't complain about: politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain't going to do any good; you're just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it's not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here... like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks. There's a nice campaign slogan for somebody: 'The Public Sucks." - George Carlin

Cheers: I think American Israelis will change their tune if the Republicans really get serious about cutting spending, including reducing or eliminating Middle East aid. If Republicans really go through with slashing the US social safety net (food stamps, Medicaid etc), even the Haredi in the US will go back to the Democrats.


Cheers: I think American Israelis will change their tune if the Republicans really get serious about cutting spending, including reducing or eliminating Middle East aid.

Posted by: Rocky | November 05, 2012 at 03:20 PM

Well, Romney has never stated that he would cut aid to Israel. So its a myth that the neo-left made up about Romney, one of many myths.

That said, most Israeli right wingers want all aid to Israel cut, so That America will stop telling Israel what to do. The $3 billion annually that Israel receives has just been used by America to keep Israel in line. Right wing Israelis want Israel to be independent of America.

Speaking of the neo-left's myths about Romney:

The political pundits all think that Romney's sudden ascension is due to his great performance during the first debate, yet they are speechless in explaining why Obama hasn't recaptured the momentum after his great performances in the second and third debates.

The reason is that the majority of America does not want Obama's socialist policies. This explains the 2010 Republican landslide up and down the ballot. Yet, because they were deluged by negative advertising from Obama about Romney throughout 2012, Americans
were unable to translate their
disgust with Obama's policies into excitement for Romney.

The first debate changed that. When America saw the real Romney, and realized that all the negative advertisement from Obama were all myths, they were able to rally around Romney (I was one of these people).

That changed the entire trajectory of the race. And the second and third debate couldn't change that anymore. America does not want to be socialist.

…The political pundits all think that Romney's sudden ascension is due to his great performance during the first debate, yet they are speechless in explaining why Obama hasn't recaptured the momentum after his great performances in the second and third debates.

The reason is that the majority of America does not want Obama's socialist policies.…

Posted by: Lubavitchers are Christians | November 05, 2012 at 03:39 PM

Oh, please.

Are you really this stupid? If not, sop lying.

The issue of an incumbent president losing a first debate and what happens after that has been discussed ad nauseam (although perhaps not on Fox News or Rush Limbaugh's show).

But the rest of the media has covered this quite extensively, just as they've covered presidents running for reelection during bad economic times and other related issues.

The vast majority of Americans support the individual components of what you call ObamaCare and almost every other program Obama has supported.

What they oppose is the Republican caricature of those policies that idiots like you drink in from Rush and Fox.

So, for instance, when polling was done about the components of ObamaCare without mentioning ObamaCare, those components – were overwhelmingly supported. But the same people when asked about ObamaCare opposed it by a small majority.

They don't oppose the actual policies – they oppose the caricature of them created with hundreds of millions of dollars from the Koch brothers, Sheldon Adelson, and other rich Republicans.

You're not a smart man and you're not an honest man as many people have noted.

Perhaps you owe it to yourself to use the brain you were given and actually learn rather than parrot the crap spewed at you by Murdoch, etc.

…The political pundits all think that Romney's sudden ascension is due to his great performance during the first debate, yet they are speechless in explaining why Obama hasn't recaptured the momentum after his great performances in the second and third debates.

The reason is that the majority of America does not want Obama's socialist policies.…

Posted by: Lubavitchers are Christians | November 05, 2012 at 03:39 PM

LaC, you are simply in error. Of course, the pundits are speechless in explaining why Obama hasn't recaptured momentum after the second and third debate, because he HAS in fact recaptured the momentum. Therefore there is nothing to be said on the topic of why he hasn't recaptured the momentum.

Read Charles Blow's column in the NYTimes. Yes, he is, gasp, a liberal and an African-American, but he also has facts on his side.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/03/opinion/blow-is-romney-unraveling.html?ref=columnists

In that article Blow links to Nate Silver's work. Nate Silver is a statistician who writes a blog which analyzes poll results, a sort of metapoll if you will (to use a Romneyian turn of phrase). I have known about Silver for a long time--he's smart guy and a good poker player. Silver's poll analysis, the most recent one that I have read, has Obama as about an 85% favorite. As a poker player would put it, Obama does not have the stone cold nuts, but Romney is a big dog. Sometimes the long shot wins, but I wouldn't put my money on it, and neither would Silver. In fact, he has offered a bet, not that Obama will win, but that his (Silver's) model is correct (and it would be proven correct if Obama does win, but there is an important distinction).

If you check this site, you will see that Betfair, a sports betting site, also has Obama as the big favorite. Betfair is not a political entity--they just publish betting lines on all kinds of sporting events. They don't care whether or not the Saints beat the Eagles--they just publish the odds.

http://www.predictwise.com/politics/2012presidentindividual

And if you think Obama is a socialist, you don't know what a socialist is.

All political campaigns spin the truth in their own favor, and what they say should be taken with a grain of salt. But the Republican Party and the Romney campaign are just bald-faced liars. I would take everything that comes from those sources with a huge boulder of salt, a mountain even

Any Jew who votes for Obama stands shoulder to shoulder with those who boo God and Jerusalem.

That's a fact.

If you prefer the enlightened path of the benevolent Obamagod over Hashem then hey, who am I to judge? It's a free country, right?

You leftists are going to have to deprogram yourselves eventually.


LaC, you are simply in error. Of course, the pundits are speechless in explaining why Obama hasn't recaptured momentum after the second and third debate, because he HAS in fact recaptured the momentum. Therefore there is nothing to be said on the topic of why he hasn't recaptured the momentum.


Posted by: MM | November 05, 2012 at 05:11 PM


I'm not even going to bother responding to Shmarya. No point arguing with a neolib.

But as far as your momentum for Obama is concerned: You have no idea. You drank the liberal kool-aid, and you won't realize what hit you tomorrow.

I've said this before on this blog, and I'll say it again. All the polls have a sample of between D+6 and D+11. That is even more than the teh sample of D+8 in 2008.

That is ridiculous to think that the electorate in 2012 is going to be D+11. Or even D+6. The electorate iin 2010 was R+1.

And the Republican electorate is so energized, you have no idea. I understand that you don't frequent the heartland of America (liberals are concentrated mainly in the Northeast and on the left coast), but I can tell you that people all across America are itching to correct their mistake from 2008. Yet, you don't see that excitement on the Democcrat side.

The excitement on the Republican side mirrors that of 2010.

Thus, if the electorate does in fact turn out to be R+1 like in 2010, the shellacking will be just like in 2010. Romney will wiin in a landslide.

Yes I know that intrade has Obama at over 65%. Nate Silver has Obama at 8over 75%. Yes, I know. But they're reading the same polls as you. They're not reading the internals.

We can argue all night. We'll see tomorrow who's right.

If you're a man, you'll come back to this thread and admit you were wrong.

Here's my word to you: If I'm wrong, I'll coome back to this thread and admit it.

That's a fact.

You really don't know what that word means, do you?

Posted by: Lubavitchers are Christians | November 05, 2012 at 05:39 PM

Regardless of who wins, and regardless of whether or not you admit you were wrong (and if Romney does win, but not by a "landslide" - will you admit you were wrong about that as well?) - you'll still be a lunatic, an imbecile and a liar.

When you first began coming here, and you were asked why you defended all Haredim except for Lubavitchers, you had no answer other than that you didn't like to see people picked on unfairly, or some such nonsense. Why, you might have been mistaken for a liberal!

After a time, your real reason came to the surface; like Korbendallas, you seem to derive some perverse pleasure out of getting in the face of "lefties". I imagine you feel that in posting your drivel here, you're showing us that you won't be silenced, or something of the sort.

You're insidious and manipulative, and as Shmarya has told you repeatedly - you're a sick man. Get help.

Furthermore, I'll make a prediction of my own. If Obama wins, and if you do come back here to admit you were wrong, it won't be a simple admission. It will be something on the order of, "Well, I guess I underestimated the stupidity of the Left. Congratulations, losers; you've just destroyed America! Enjoy the coming apocalypse!"

Whoever wins, I wish you would just go away - and take Korbendallas with you. Perhaps you could go off together and stick pins in voodoo dolls representing "The Left".

LaC--

First of all, I am not a man. Second of all, I did not say Obama was a lock to win. I specifically said that the odds are favoring him and showing that he has the momentum, and that Romney is a long shot--but sometimes long shots come through. That is why they are long shots, not "no shots." Either way I will have nothing to apologize for. It is a fact that analyses of the polls are showing Obama is the favorite at the moment. You claim that the polls and/or the analyses are incorrect--and you may be right (Nate Silver says you have a 15% chance of being right). But that does not negate the fact that the polls as they stand at the moment, whether or not they ultimately prove to be accurate, have Obama ahead with the momentum. Which is all I claimed.

Further more, you assume that I am in the Northeast or on the Pacific coast and know nothing of the heartland. Wrong! I left the mid-Atlantic in 1976, and since then have lived in West Virginia, NW Ohio, West Texas, New Orleans, Las Vegas, very briefly back in Pennsylvania after Katrina, and for the last few years, Maricopa County AZ, home of Sheriff Joe Arpaio (hoping tomorrow makes him former sheriff Joe Arpaio) and Russell Pearce, author and advocate of SB 1070. So having lived all over the heartland and in the Deep South since 1976, I would say I am pretty damned familiar with "fly-over country."

After a time, your like Korbendallas, you seem to derive some perverse pleasure out of getting in the face of "lefties".

Of course. That's why I do it. I enjoy abusing your illusions much the same way I like calling hatbeards on their bullshit.

I imagine you feel that in posting your drivel here, you're showing us that you won't be silenced, or something of the sort.

No. I'm just calling you on your bullshit. Because, you know... that's what it is.

You're insidious and manipulative, and as Shmarya has told you repeatedly - you're a sick man. Get help.

Insidious! Manipulative! No, I just know how you think better than you do. It's not my fault you've been programmed. Wake up.

Posted by: Jeff | November 05, 2012 at 06:04 PM

Posted by: Jeff | November 05, 2012 at 06:04 PM


Hi Jeff.

So you won't argue the facts. Just call me an imbecile. Liberals do that.

I am not haredi. I am not even religious. I am here for the same reason as you. Except that I will point out, from time to time, your hypocrisy. (such as, you hate when haredim are all on food stamps, but you love when everyone else is on foodstamps. You want Obama to give even more food stamps. See, I'm consistent. I want no one to have food stamps. Everyoone should work for a living - haredim and everyone else. But you're a hypocrite - and hypcocrites don't even admit their hypocrisy.)

I am an unabashed conservative. And I am proud of it. What does that have to with haredim?

Instead of everyone being poor and dependent on government, I want everyone to have the opportunity to work hard and succeed, to enjoy the fruits of their labor, and to have the least government intrusion in their lives.

I am pro-gay rights and I am pro-abortion. Though I do think that the states should have the right to decide those issues, like states decide whether murder and prostitution is legal or not.

But my views not withstanding, Roe v Wade is here to stay, and abortion is legal in America.

I believe that the federal government has no right to force the Catholic church to supply abortion coverage to their employees. Freedom of religion. But I am still pro-abortion. If it ever came to a vote, I would vote for abortion.

I do point out the hypocrisy of people who worry so much of MBP, yet support Obama who voted in the IL state senate for the right to call a live baby that survived an abortion attempt.

Now that you know what I believe, lets get back to the issue at hand.

Calling me names doesn't change the polls and the internals. I don't know if you have the intelligence to foolwo what I wrote before about D+11 and R+1, but if you do, go back and read it. All the polls are relyiing on an electorate that mirrors OR EXCEEDS (in the CNN poll) the 2008 D+8 electorate.

On the other hand, the 2010 electorate was R+1.

If you plug the 2010 model into the 2012 numbers, you've got yourself a Romney landslide.

You can argue the numbers with me, and I'm happy to debate with you or anyone else who wants to discuss this.

Just calling me a moron because I've got some facts and figures for you.... well who's the moron here?

*CORRECTION:

I do point out the hypocrisy of people who worry so much of MBP, yet support Obama who voted in the IL state senate for the right to *kill* a live baby that survived an abortion attempt.

Further, LaC--

I live in the 9th Congressional District of Arizona. This is a new district resulting from the recent redistricting and consists mostly of Tempe, home of Arizona State University. The race here has garnered some national interest because it has just about the sharpest contrast between the two candidates imaginable. The Republicans are running Vernon Parker, a black hard-core Tea Party member. I am frankly surprised that there is such a person as a black Tea Party member here in Maricopa County, since the Tea Party has attracted very few black voters and since there is not a large black population in Maricopa County. But there he is. His Democratic opponent is Kyrsten Sinema who is well to the left of the national Democratic party and who identifies as a non-theist(she was brought up in a devoutly Mormon family) and a bisexual. She also has a record of coming through on her campaign promises during her time in the state legislature. The polls currently give a slight edge to Sinema, but we shall see. I think both candidates are outliers when it comes to the views of the electorate in this district, so I am watching this with some interest.

I am hoping that my Mexican-American neighbors go to the polls in droves to support Richard Carmona, a fellow Mexican-American, for US Senate. His opponent Jeff Flake, a scion of a Mormon pioneer family, is the one who wants to allow private interests to mine uranium in the Grand Canyon. No doubt Flake will be helped by the Mormon turnout for Romney. (Blacks are far from the only demographic that practices identity politics.) I am also hoping that Mexican-American turnout gets rid of that monster Joe Arpaio.

Arizona has shifted from red to pink on the color-coded maps. I am hoping to see it shift to purple, if not all the way to blue. I am expecting Romney to take Arixona's electoral votes However, there is at least a possibility that further down the ticket some Democrats will win, but it's far from a sure thing.

So that's how things look here in the desert Southwest, part of the great American heartland and nowhere near Brooklyn.

I think we can all agree that Jeff is one sick puppy.

isn’t all that different from their disdain for fellow Israelis who insist on believing in peace with Palestinians.

Most settlers (and by "most" I mean upwards of 50%) as well as most Orthodox (and by "most" I mean upwards of 50%) and most hard-line right-wingers don't have a problem living alongside the Arabs. The "peace" they oppose is an Apartheid Peace solution, where we have regional control but the filthy Arabs live on the other side of the Apartheid Seperation Fence in a dictatorship with much fewer rights (not even basic human rights).

However, the American immigrants (or emmigrants, if you will) have imported the ugliest kind of racism, the kind found in no country but the US. They oppose the Oslo accords, but seek a solution not only to put the Arabs on the other side of the street, on the other side of Apartheid Seperation Fence, or on the other side of the Jordan but to ethnically cleanse all Israeli controlled territory of all non-Jews, especially the ones with a skin color darker than theirs.


Posted by: MM | November 05, 2012 at 06:45 PM

I have no idea what you posted, because I don't follow Arizona local politics. I also don't label people as Mexican-Americans, Mormons, blacks, or any other demographic that you liberals love to divide people by. In my book, there are Americans citizens and then there is everyone else.

You seem shocked that there are black Tea Party members. FYI - one of my favorite politicians is Rep Allen West of FL, an outspoken true conservative Tea Party member who is not scared to take it to Obama. He's probably the only one that could do that without being called a racist in this country, because the great Rep Allen West is black himself.

But that is another of those myths - that the Tea Party is racist. It isn't. So many Tea Party members are black, hispanic, and other. But who cares? We are all Americans, and we want to save our country from becoming like bankrupt Greece with the unsustainable tax/spending/deficits that we currently have.

Calling the Tea Party racist is like calling the Democrat party antisemitic (though some right wingers do, in fact, believe that the Democrat party is antisemitic).

Calling me names doesn't change the polls and the internals. I don't know if you have the intelligence to foolwo what I wrote before about D+11 and R+1, but if you do, go back and read it. All the polls are relyiing on an electorate that mirrors OR EXCEEDS (in the CNN poll) the 2008 D+8 electorate.

Oh, Jesus. You do this every time I address you. EVERY TIME. I said NOTHING about numbers or statistics. Every sentence I wrote about the election began with the word, "If".

You do this EVERY SINGLE TIME. The two of you are sick beyond imagining. The only serious problem Shmarya and I have ever had, in the years we've known one another and the years I've been coming here, is over the likes of you. As I say all the time, he is FAR too tolerant of psychotics like yourselves.

You are not the product of early childhood indoctrination; you're genetic garbage. You shouldn't be allowed to reproduce.

Wow this jeff guy sounds like a real misanthrope.

You are not the product of early childhood indoctrination; you're genetic garbage. You shouldn't be allowed to reproduce.

Posted by: Jeff | November 05, 2012 at 07:06 PM

This is what we call eliminationism. It comes from the same basic place that Chabadnik hatbeards base their racial supremacy on. The idea that anyone who utterly decimates your worldview is in fact an insane non-human who should be sent to a camp of some kind.

You really should be ashamed of yourself. But you're not. And so, you shall vote for Obama because you don't really have a choice, do you...

Cheers said: "...most Israeli right wingers want all aid to Israel cut, so That America will stop telling Israel what to do." This does not appear to be the view of right wing American Jews or of AIPAC.

Of course, none of this will matter if the rapidly growing Haredi population in Israel refuses to serve in the military or to hold jobs in the taxpaying economy or to make sure that their children get good secular educations.

Decimating MY world view? Go look in a mirror, psychopath.

Raging psychotics, the pair of you.

LaC--

I realize that there is little point in replying to you, but here goes anyway. I did not call the Tea Party racist. I said, which is true, that it has few black members. As was pointed out, African-American voters are polling overwhelmingly for Obama (as they do for just about any Democrat). The numbers I have seen are 90-91%, not 99% as was mentioned above. That does not leave a whole lot of room for black Tea Party adherents. There are just not many black Tea Party members, whether they are not welcome or they are not interested or whatever reason. Obviously there are some, or there wouldn't be a Vernon Parker running in my district.

Why did I discuss Arizona politics? Well, you accused me of being from the Northeast or the Pacific Coast and, as a liberal, ignorant of the heartland. In fact, I live in a non-coastal "heartland" state, much of the population of which is very conservative, and I certainly know a lot about its politics and the politics of the many other heartland states in which I have lived. By your own admission, you yourself are not an expert on the heartland, even though you claimed to be the person with his finger on the pulse of the heartland where everyone is all itching to throw Obama out of office. In fact, those states which provide data on early voting show good Democratic turnout. What that means remains to be seen, but it does not on its face indicate a mad anti-Obama rush.

It's very nice that you see everyone as an American citizen with no distinctions of race, ethnicity, gender, religion, region, sexual orientation, occupation, affluence, etc., etc. But the fact is that people's voting patterns are influenced by their demographic, whether you personally recognize demographic differences or not. In this very article we read that Americans in Israel are one-issue voters, primarily concerned with American policy toward the settlements. There are a whole lot of "just Americans" who neither know nor care about the settlements and who do not have that as a voting priority. My neighbors who have roots in Mexico are very concerned about immigration policies when they vote. Many other "just Americans" do not have that as a priority. The Floridians with ties to Cuba are concerned about the Castro brothers--others don't even remember who they are, never heard of the missile crisis. It is ridiculous that I have to point out the obvious, but different groups have different concerns and priorities. Out here in the desert we worry about not having enough water; in New Orleans we worried about having too much. Acknowledging that different groups have different perspectives, interests, and priorities is the bedrock of American federalism. It is not some sort of invidious prejudice or discrimination. So, while it's just dandy that you don't acknowledge any sort of distinctions among Americans, but it isn't very realistic.

Tomorrow's results are certainly not a done deal, but I am cautiously optimistic. After all, Romney himself allowed that he might lose, although he said he didn't think he would. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of his own chances.

BTW if you respond to me, and I don't see any reason why you should, please respond to what I actually wrote, not what you imagine.

Decimating MY world view? Go look in a mirror, psychopath.

Raging psychotics, the pair of you.

Posted by: Jeff | November 05, 2012 at 07:58 PM

Yes, psychopaths. Because anyone who doesn't eat spoon-fed bullshit from the mouth of a socialist must be mentally ill. In fact, we should all be legally required to take medication if we don't conform to what your idea of normal should be... It's scientifically proven as medical fact that leftists are genetically superior human beings or something.

You're really not aware as to how easy this is for me, are you...

All I am doing is praying. I am not going to be sounding the trumpet until I know for sure who wins.

I pray people will vote for Romney, but so many are still blind about Obama.

Only God knows what is going to happen. And I PRAY it's Romney. Or God help us conservatives and Christians and Jews.

"Only God knows what is going to happen. And I PRAY it's Romney. Or God help us conservatives and Christians and Jews."
Posted by: recruitment agencies brisbane | November 06, 2012 at 12:02 AM

...As good a reason I've seen to vote for Obama.

Any Jew who votes for Obama harbors hatred of God.

After the destruction Obama has caused, only someone who lives off the govt tit could vote for him. And apparently, there are lots of these people here. Why work when you get free money from the govt( meaning from the rest of us that actually work and pay taxes ).?

"Only God knows what is going to happen. And I PRAY it's Romney. Or God help us conservatives and Christians and Jews."

You really think that imaginary man in the sky really cares about politics?

After the destruction Obama has caused, only someone who lives off the govt tit could vote for him.

You mean like the tens of thousands of Haredim who avail themselves of government paid-for food, housing, medical care, etc., then vote Republican?

Any Jew who votes for Obama harbors hatred of God.

From Wikipedia:

People with Asperger syndrome... may like doing or saying the same thing over and over again.

After the destruction Obama has caused, only someone who lives off the govt tit could vote for him.

You mean like the tens of thousands of Haredim who avail themselves of government paid-for food, housing, medical care, etc., then vote Republican?

Posted by: Jeff | November 06, 2012 at 07:14 AM

Is that how it goes? Because I distinctly remember the Satmar rebbe admonishing his drones for even thinking about not voting for Obama on Motzei Shabbos a few months ago. In fact, that his speech made it on to the Internet at all so we could criticize his heavy-handed mind control tactics was one of the primary reasons for the asifa. So, there we have another line of leftist bullshit disposed of.

People with Asperger syndrome... may like doing or saying the same thing over and over again.

Posted by: Jeff | November 06, 2012 at 07:17 AM

Oh, you're a shrink now too! Who knew that just being a mindless leftist would make you just like every Daas Torah rabbi who is the unequaled expert on everything due to his superior knowledge base?

Keep it coming man, this is like batting practice for me. See you tonight!

Keep it coming man, this is like batting practice for me.

The tragedy is that you think you're successfully refuting all comers, while really just dodging everything that's put to you. Rarely have I met someone in such profound denial.

I'd feel sorry for you if you weren't such a thoroughgoing piece of garbage.

The most rabidly anti-Zionist Satmar in Brooklyn still has more sympathy for Jewish settlers clashing with Arabs than they do for the average Jewish resident of Tel Aviv or Haifa.

I don't think that there's any truth to that. The anti-Zionist Hungarian chasidim, i.e. Satmar and their satellite groups, have nothing but loathing for the settlers, and no sympathy for them. Their sympathies lie with the run-of-the-mill chareidim in Jerusalem and Bnei Braq. If anything, they resent the settlers even more than they resent the secular Israelis in Tel-Aviv or Haifa, because of the idea of "geirui bo-ummos".


Vote for whomever you choose but please – stop lying.

Posted by: Shmarya | November 05, 2012 at 03:11 PM


Amazing! I make two posts crammed with facts and your response is not to argue facts, but rather, to state your OPINION everywhere.

Shamarya, stick to what you're good at: writing a blog and Hareidi bashing. Clearly, economics is not your field.

And, if you havn't figured it out by now, I'm voting for Romney. My business has had to close thanks to Obama's useless regulations. I feel horrible for my employees that I had to let go. If Obama was running unopposed, I'd vote for none of the above.

It's time for a change!

Jeff @ 7:17 missing the irony....

Slamming people who also have disorders is repulsive on every level.

dh, This is the second time you've placed your own interpretation on something I've said. I let it go the last time. I'm not letting it go this time. I assume I've touched some sort of nerve, but I really don't care.

Do you remember several weeks ago when you thought we had a problem, and I told you we didn't?

Now we do.

Jeff, what other interpretation is there? Seriously.

As far as touching a nerve, I imagine you have touched the nerve of many here that you respect. You were absent from the forum a few months ago when some were kind enough to share their issues?

Brain disorders are physical illnesses. Just as you would not insult by accusing someone or copying for them the Wiki definition of cancer or ALS, you should not do that with any illness.

If your values differ and you wish to utilize illness to attack with a punitive vengeance those who you feel are lesser than you in some respect, then you show great ignorance and disrespect for everyone, including this blog, it's publisher whose friendship you hold so dear and the friends that you have here.

This is a blog. We all, including you, use our own interpretations of posts. We have to. We cannot rely on facial expressions, tones of voice, inflections, gestures etc. This is how we learn and entertain.

When you redress and insult by equating someone's opinion or their method of presentation, no matter how wrong or antithetical to your own, as mental illness, you do a terrible human misdeed. You are an incredibly articulate fellow whose angst we all feel. Words should not be used as do you when your rage and pain push aside what you really may have to offer.

Do you yell something offensive when you see a disabled person trying to make their way in a cross walk? Probably not. Would you if it was a Chabadnik?

I always place my own interpretation on what you say. You only have a "problem" when I call you out about taking the moral low ground regarding that which most individuals have no choice.... physical illness. I'm asking that you choose to stop doing that in this forum, where I have so much to learn, not only from the people who post, but from those that would if their speech were not chilled by fear of your inhumanity and misplaced wrath.

Do it again and if I read it I will ask again. It speaks to who you are and who I am. Yes, Jeff, we have a problem and we did since day one. You just never noticed.


If your values differ and you wish to utilize illness to attack with a punitive vengeance

This is the M.O. of leftist "discussion". It's all they're capable of. Eliminationist marginalization though plainly hateful tactics which are designed to put the target on the defense or alternatively trigger an equally passionate counterattack which would bring adverse consequences.

Keep it coming, Jeff. I specialize in getting leftist idiots to dig their own graves.

"This is the M.O. of leftist "discussion". It's all they're capable of. Eliminationist marginalization..."

Ah yes, Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck... wait, er, no.

How can you be marginalized if you're eliminated? Bad planning there.

You're both out of touch with reality.

And KBD, I say it again - you're genetic garbage. It's a shame your family survived the Holocaust.

I aspire to be out of touch with reality.

This is an email I received from Jeff who harvested an email address for me in order to send me this:

"You completely misinterpreted everything I said. You obviously have some sort of issue. You're way out of line, but more than that, in calling me out in front of that psychopath - and that is precisely what he is - you have stepped so far over that line that it breaches all boundaries of propriety, by any definition. Of course, I don't imagine they would have taught you about propriety in whichever frum factory you received whatever passed for your education. I should say this to you publicly, but unlike you, I won't take a swipe at someone who is supposed to be an ally in front of someone who is not. When I have a disagreement with Shmarya, I tell him privately. I don't call him out in public.

The bottom line is that you're a goddamned idiot. If that upsets you, have your husband come to Boston and beat me up.

I'm telling Carol to take my name off the mailing list, and I will tell her the reason. Don't bother responding to this, as I will simply delete your email without reading it."

You're both out of touch with reality.

And KBD, I say it again - you're genetic garbage. It's a shame your family survived the Holocaust.

Posted by: Jeff | November 06, 2012 at 06:47 PM

You really don't know how inhuman you've become. Don't worry, Hashem will show you. You're little more than a program to me, leftist.

Remember what I just said about digging your own grave, Jeff? Ypu're doing it again, stupid. No wonder you could never get laid.

Zing!

MM, what's going on in Maricopa County? After reading your post I became interested. Polls are closed by you now.... I can't find anything about Maricopa. Is Joe gonna go? Let us know what happened.

Posted by: dh | November 06, 2012 at 07:13 PM

I "harvested" your email address? We, along with about a dozen others, have been involved in a group discussion for the better part of the past two months. You're deliberately implying to those here that I somehow obtained it illicitly.

You're a very sick woman. Your posting of a private email proves the point I tried to make to you. Naturally, you're too mindless to see it - a typical example of Bais Yakov, or whichever other indoctrination facility produced you.

I've seen this sort of behavior repeatedly with the Orthodox. For people who claim to prize community above all else, you lack an understanding of the most basic elements of appropriate communal behavior.

KBD, I'll say it once more before I sign off - you're genetic garbage. The mere fact that your family survived the Holocaust demonstrates the nonexistence of your invisible sky fairy.

Whatever you post here in reply - and you'll certainly post something, as you have a psychopathic need to have the last word - I won't come back to read it, so you won't have even that satisfaction.

Choke on your own bile for the next four years.

As you say Jeff, it was a "group" - a group of emails - about a short lived topic discussed within the "group " , and you harvested, or if you are more comfortable we can use the word "acquired " an email address you may or may not have assumed to be a place of business, to hurt and humiliate me and anyone else who opened it. That is illicit because it is not customary in group behavior where the group is formed for solely a group purpose, as was this group where there are no existing interpersonal relationships.

My sickness or health is not in issue, although my cholesteral is high, but again you find my possible infirmity a happy prospect with which you can insult me. I dunno, is high cholesteral a sickness?

Regarding me being "mindless " - well you've got me there, kiddo. Some would say I drive that way. And I talk to my little dog. In silly voices.

About the rest, Jeff, well as far as I know I'm not frum, not from frum nor from any frum or even frum-like facility, community, family or neighborhood etc. But then I'm "mindless " so maybe I plum forgot - heck, I didn't even know I was married until you told me.

Jeff, chill. Good news! Medical cannabis was this very day legalized in your state.

Is there something wrong with having the last word? Why is that a bad thing? Is it a Jewish rule grown men have? They taunt that they won't come back to see what you said when we all do come back. Is it the cyber version of packing up your toys and running home then looking to see if anyone followed? More like putting your fingers in your ears.

Jeff, get some sleep. Hope to see you posting tomorrow.

Jeff - You're not human. You're a hate-bot. I distinctly remember Shmarya warning me on calling Haredim "vermin" as anti-semitic but here you are actually endorsing the Nazis and wishing my parents dead. I guess Naziism is okay if you're politically correct. Amazing how common that is among you morally superior leftist-communist types. You can't get any lower than what you just did without committing an actual crime. I imagine that's what you're tryig to bait me into, but I have literally heard it all from you leftist types. It comes as no surprise that a leftist Jew would turn on his own people.

You have no shame, no soul, no mind, no leg to stand on, and four more years of gloriously fawning over the enemies of the Jewish people. That's ok though, because you'll never have to answer for any of it, amirite? Get all that morally superior satanism out of your system while you're here on Earth.

Good morning Jeff.

I admit I was very wrong in predicting the election outcome.

I also admit that intrade and Silver know what they were talking about. I guess my bias for the outcome clouded my senses.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

----------------------

FailedMessiah.com is a reader supported website.

Thank you for your generous support!

----------------------

----------------------

----------------------

Please Scroll Down Toward The Bottom Of This Page For More Search Options, For A List Of Recent Posts, And For Comments Rules

----------------------

----------------------

Recent Posts

----------------------

Tip Jar

Gelt Is Good!

Tip Jar

FailedMessiah.com is a reader supported website. Please click the Donate button now to contribute.

Thank you for your generous support!

Tip Jar

Gelt Is Good!

Tip Jar

-------------------------

Comment Rules

  • 1. No anonymous comments.

    2. Use only one name or alias and stick with that.

    3. Do not use anyone else's name or alias.

    4. Do not sockpuppet.

    5. Try to argue using facts and logic.

    6. Do not lie.

    7. No name-calling, please.

    8. Do not post entire articles or long article excerpts.

    ***Violation of these rules may lead to the violator's comments being edited or his future comments being banned.***

Older Posts Complete Archives

Search FailedMessiah

Lijit Search

----------------------

FailedMessiah.com is a reader supported website.

Thank you for your generous support!

----------------------

----------------------

----------------------

FailedMessiah.com in the Media

RSS Feed

Blog Widget by LinkWithin