Women Should Not Run For Public Office Or Vote, Leading Rabbi Says

Rabbi Shlomo Aviner, the head of Yeshivat Ateret Cohanim in Jerusalem, told his students this week that a woman should not run for Knesset, Israel’s parliament, or for any other public elective office – including as a board member of a synagogue.

Rabbi Shlomo Aviner

Women Should Not Run For Public Office Or Vote, Leading Rabbi Says
Shmarya Rosenberg • FailedMesiah.com

Rabbi Shlomo Aviner, the head of Yeshivat Ateret Cohanim in Jerusalem, told his students this week that a woman should not run for Knesset, Israel’s parliament, or for any other public elective office – including as a board member of a synagogue, the Israeli Zionist Orthodox news website Kipa reports.

Why?

Because, Aviner claimed, it isn’t modest.

“The glory of the king’s daughter is [supposed to be] within,” Aviner said.

Aviner also claimed that in principle women should not even vote in Knesset elections, but in practice if a woman wants to choose to do so, she can because of the current cultural reality.

"It's not just to get to the polls, vote, and go home.…The problem is that there discussion groups [about politics and the election] – women should know what [and why] they choose [a particular party to vote for] – and public events that are not modest. It makes salad between men and women,” Aviner said.

Asked how to explain the very public role of the biblical Prophetess Devorah, who served as the leader of Jews and as a judge of Israel, Aviner said that was a unique situation.

"It was a matter of life and death," Aviner said, but in normal times, a woman shouldn’t lead or take a public role in any way.

[Hat Tips: Maven, Rebbitzman.]

Comments

[Maskil]

Before everyone jumps in and gives there two cents about Devorah, many sources say it was a hora'at sha'ah, and he's basing himself on these sources (although they are not the only sources). Athalia seized power and is counted among the monarchs of David only because politicly she was in charge (for purposes of bringing a korban that only a "king" or "prince" brings) and because she served as a place holder for her grandson, whom the prophets installed after her death. I'm not siding with him, I'm just saying he has a wealth of sources to explain any "halachic curveballs" you think you can throw at him. So let's just keep it in context.

[Maskil]

Aviner, you cocksucker! Women can vote without being involved in political discussions that mix men and women if they just go and vote as their husbands tell them to vote. You small-minded misogynistic prick.

[Abracadabra]

This guy is a real mysoginist. He clearly feels threatened by women and wants them kept barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. But not pregnant if it's by AI and they are single. No, then they should freeze their eggs and not want to "give love to little creatures" (see previous post about him).

Women should not even vote - huh? Is he also calling for making slavery legal?

This guy is pathetic. He is one of the reasons rabbis are not taken seriously anymore. Who can take this crap seriously?

[ruthie]

then don't fuck us either!!!!

[Maskil]

Is he also calling for making slavery legal?

Abracadabra,

Slavery already exists in (almost) every country. Acknowledging it by the governmental legal system would be an efficient form of overseeing it's humane institution and protecting the rights of slaves (i.e. not like racist and under-regulated slavery in the U.S.) while keeping their owners from entering a criminal enterprise. At the very least it would be a gaint leap forward.

[Jeff]

Heh! And he's Zionist Orthodox. That's right, Israel; just keep digging yourself in deeper and deeper. These lunatics will destroy you.

Meanwhile,

It makes salad between men and women

Does anyone know what he's trying to say here? I ran it through Google Translate; "salad" was in quotation marks.

[Jeff]

Slavery already exists in (almost) every country. Acknowledging it by the governmental legal system would be an efficient form of overseeing it's humane institution and protecting the rights of slaves (i.e. not like racist and under-regulated slavery in the U.S.) while keeping their owners from entering a criminal enterprise. At the very least it would be a gaint leap forward.

Or we could, you know, stop all foreign aid to countries that sanction it - or go in and put a stop to it ourselves, but of course, why would we? Most of them don't have any oil.

[MIKELANGELO]

You pay exhorbitant taxes and get very little in return?
You are a slave. Just a legalized form of slavery, and your master is your government.

[Miriam]

Do other rabbis agree with him that women should not vote or is he alone in this opinion.

[bessie berelowitz]

keep your enemy close to you; marcullus maxima.

[zibble]

He most definitely has as a role model Rabbi Abraham Isaac Kook, who - in 1920 - wrote against woman's suffrage in Israel for the same exact reasons!

[WoolSilkCotton]

Frumma women in Crown Heights are not allowed to vote, either.

[jancsipista]

This mental defect should go and stick his head in crap he deserves crap to be thrown at him

[Warren]

This explains the salad part, I think - http://www.hark.com/clips/ccjjbrkgxg-making-a-baby-is-like-making-egg-salad

[Jeff]

Frumma women in Crown Heights are not allowed to vote, either.

That's because they respect women too much to subject them to that. Oy nebech, you poor, ignorant frei yidden. You just don't understand!

If ca is reading, I'd very much like him to weigh in on this.

[Jeff]

Posted by: Warren | October 24, 2012 at 07:35 AM

Avast blocked the site, telling me it contains a Trojan Horse.

[Lo K'darkah]

Rabbi Aviner knows that every woman is either a frumma tzadekes or a chiloni slut. He is simply concerned that if we continue to "permit" humans with vaginas to elect public officials in a democracy, then we may run the risk that eventually the sluts will win and take control. The rest of us say: bring it on!

[Friar Yid]

Given the Orthodox track record on women's leadership that element isn't all that surprising-- but the comment that women shouldn't vote at all seems unconnected to the modesty issue. Women have the internet, women have TV. They can be as informed as they want to be without ever needing to attend a "public meeting." They can even vote absentee! I can't decide if this is a case of a guy specifically pushing an anti-woman agenda, or if he's just another clueless old man rambling about how the ladies back in his day were more modest.

[Alter Kocker]

R. Aviner is indicative of the retrogressive and anti-historical world view of the ultra frum. In this world women are little more than possessions and have little or no rights other than those granted by men.

We had a teacher in our hometown cheder who attempted to impress this world view onto my daughter's grade 5 class. He handed out textbooks, siddurim etc etc to the boys. To the girls he gave picture books. He would give tests because it was a requirement. The girls got "0" on the test. We, as parents luckily caught on by the end of the first month and demanded he be fired. He said that we were wasting our time teaching girls.

Yeah, I was really wasting my time. Rabbis, I present to you my daughter, the physician. My daughter, the silver medallist of her medical school. My daughter, formerly part of our city's heart transplant team. You Rabbi Aviner, may one day need a committed, educated woman-or would you rather relegate her to be a baby machine and picture book reader?

[Friar Yid]

Alter Kocker- good on you and the other parents for standing up for your daughters. I've been thinking a lot about this issue since hearing about the Pakistani girl threatened and ultimately shot in the head for wanting to go to school. The more I read about certain sectors of the frum world, the more concerned I become that the differences between them and folks like the Taliban are merely a matter of degree.

[AztecQueen2000]

If the honor of a princess is truly within, does that mean that the yeshiva man-children will get off their rear ends and work so their wives can stay home? Or is this just the emperor's new clothes version of misogyny?

[Lamed Vovnik]

This is a GREAT idea. If haredi women are forbidden to vote it will decrease the political power of the haredim in Israel by 50%. Then maybe the gutless government can do something about getting them off the permanent dole and start to integrate them into society before its too late.

[Jeff]

Rabbis, I present to you my daughter, the physician. My daughter, the silver medallist of her medical school. My daughter, formerly part of our city's heart transplant team.

Kol hakavod, AK!

If haredi women are forbidden to vote it will decrease the political power of the haredim in Israel by 50%. Then maybe the gutless government can do something about getting them off the permanent dole and start to integrate them into society before its too late.

If there is even the remotest possibility of that happening, I guarantee you the bearded wonders will suddenly decide it's permitted for a woman to vote if the community is being threatened. Dollars to doughnuts it'll have something to do with the laws concerning a rodef.

[Yochanan Lavie]

If women can read, they can read subversive material such as Lysistrata by Aristophanes. They should do as the women do, in that play.

[jewishwhistleblower]

Rabbi Shlomo Aviner has been accused by women in the past of sexual harassment.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/58069764/Settler-Rabbi-Stonewalls-on-Sex-Abuse-Charge

[jewishwhistleblower]

http://web.archive.org/web/20040208233247/http://www.theawarenesscenter.org/aviner.html

(Excerpt)
When no one can hear you scream:
After complaining that a senior rabbi harassed her, a settlement resident becomes an outcast
By Ruth Sinai
Haaretz Daily - March 31, 2003

They warned her mother that her sisters' chances of a good match would be damaged, claims B.G. They tried to turn her brother and her husband's family against her. Over 100 rabbis, she says, including at least three candidates for the post of chief rabbi, signed notices that appeared in newspapers calling her a liar. Speeches have been made denouncing her, she claims, while Rabbi Moshe Bleicher, head of the Shavei Hebron Yeshiva, has published an article saying she suffers from mental illness and from hallucinations.

This is only part of the degradation B.G., a settlement resident, has suffered since a newspaper interview five months ago in which she alleged that she had been the victim of "improper behavior of a sexual nature," as she puts it, on the part of Beit El rabbi, Shlomo Aviner, who also heads the Ateret Cohanim Yeshiva.

A second woman also alleged in the same interview that Aviner had sexually harassed her, both physically and verbally, and that she had been forced to move away.

"The mask of abuse and scheming that we lifted simply astounded us - 123 rabbis claimed that the two women were crazy and liars without knowing a thing about them, just because of what Rabbi Aviner and Rabbi Bleicher said," says Hannah Kahat, head of "Kolech" ("Your Voice") a forum for religious women that seeks to improve their status within the community.

The mass mobilization of the rabbinical institution to defend Rabbi Aviner has been coupled with a campaign not meant merely to silence the allegations, but also to eject these women from their community. Their full names have been diffused throughout the settlements along with supposed details of their lives.
...
...
B.G. is stunned by this claim, which also appeared in a statement by Bleicher, as neither she nor the other woman were asked to testify. What kind of investigation could have been held without consulting the two women, she asks. Sources close to Rabbi Aviner said in response that Rabbi Bleicher knows a thing or two about the complainant as he knows her brother-in-law and one of her brothers. Bleicher himself was unavailable for comment.

[Jeff]

Posted by: jewishwhistleblower | October 24, 2012 at 10:36 AM

No one does "wagons in a circle" like the frum.

[ruthie]

AK
wonderful job you did with your daughter. bravo
and brava to her

[Alter Kocker]

To the sexual harassment victims of this obviously misogynistic piece of filth: You are not alone. Men such as Aviner will one day run into that woman who will put an end to their games.

In a world where men such as Aviner can ruin a woman's life and family there is little justice. I can only relate a small story from a business associate. His boss lost just about everything when he harrassed a female executive at his firm. She resisted for a long time. He pressed on with the sexual requests and assigned demeaning tasks to her when she refused. Unexpectedly, she appeared to comply. At the crucial moment (in the boss' house) she affixed to his offending member one of those plastic cable ties that the police use as handcuffs. She tied it so tightly that it cut off circulation to the offending member. His wife had to drive him to the ER for treatment. He lost the house and the business in the ensuing divorce. The frum bastards like Aviner need this to happen to them, only this time the cable tie should be left on until their member drops off.

[seymour]

I do not think he is going far enough.

woman should not have babies they need to travel to the doctors hospital. it that modest and they can come into contact with men

"t makes salad between men and women,”

[yeduhis]

Too bad he didn't say men can't run for any office in Rockland County or the School Board. They don't look out for the common good of everyone. They cause hostilty and anger among its residents.

[Yosef ben Matitya]

it's this idiot's week of chumros!
he must be menstruating!

[Milhouse]

then don't fuck us either!!!!
Posted by: ruthie

Are you talking about sex? Because it takes two to do that no?

[Yosef ben Matitya]

Mafdal had a woman MK as early as 1959. DL's are consistently regressing and getting besotted! Some even admire chabad. Goes to tell u how low they deteriorated.

[BeenThereDoneThat]

What do you expect from a people who pray "shelo osani ishah" each morning. (prayer in the prayer book which males say thanking god that he was not created as a female.)

The mindset is just an extension of this and other things (which i wont go into at the moment).

[Bob Guthrie]

Posted by: Maskil
"You small-minded misogynistic prick."

Maskil, don't you even freaking dare, Mr. "I only call certain women Mentally Retarded Broads and C*nts."

"Oh, Deborah doesn't count. Invalid argument. Dismiss her". You small-minded misogynistic prick.

Woah, the chuptzah. =P

[Bob Guthrie]

@Maskil

Yes, you will always be known henceforth as the "Women are C*nts, Mentally Retarded Broads" lad, same as Deremes calling Black Americans "The BLACKS" or "Them Blacks", and BibleBeltJew referencing to Female Jewish users that don't agree with him as "Bitter Hags" (or very crudely insulting somebody's Mother).

"Not Fair". Your words. PKB.

[soso]

One of the harassment victims, not B.G., the other one, wrote a book about it, in french. She does not mention the name of Aviner, but after comparing the description of the cases and the vague biography of the "Rabbi" in question, I came to the conclusion that it must be him.

She does not really say that he touched her or tried to have sex with her. It is more that he established an emotional dependence, alienated her from her family, used her writings for his drashot without giving her credit for it, and in general had too intimate conversations, late at night, on the phone.

she then goes on to describe how she was shunned by her small west bank settlement once she went public with her harrassment charges.

In fact, what she is describing is a sect with a Guru, more that kind of phenomenon, not so much the "Sexual" part of "sexual harrassment".

She wrote that (back then) he would pander to women, insult other Rabbis for not being "liberal" enough towards women, and always tell them they are right (and sometimes drive a wedge between wife and husband)...

The settlers are called "the builders of the redemption" in this book. Seems a quite suiting nickname, since this is what they believe they are...

[Maskil]

She does not really say that he touched her or tried to have sex with her. It is more that he established an emotional dependence, alienated her from her family, used her writings for his drashot without giving her credit for it, and in general had too intimate conversations, late at night, on the phone.

There are a lot of guys who pay big money for the services she provided Aviner, yet she gave it to him free ... and then complained and called herself a victim?

Maybe there is stuff I don't understand about cults, gurus and victims, I was just in Chabad until my mid-20s and now I'm just a Jerusalemite so what do I know? Also, is everything a cult? Because I live here and the settlers, DL and Aviner's East Jerusalem community are not the most narrow minded in the country. Unless someone was born in to a Chassidic community or lives in Bet Shemesh the sectors of Israeli society are all equally narrow minded (except the Eastern European immigrants, they intellectually more like westerners in maturity and capacity - also Yerushalmim are different, in that they have a greater sense of tolerance for diversity).

[westernjew]

Joy to the world. A great rabbi has emerged, huh?

[Nemo]

So. Women should be cattle? Fine. Torah teaches us how to treat cattle.

When you wake in the morning, make sure your cattle are fed, warm, dry and have all their needs attended each day before you raise the first bite of food or drink to your lips--even on Shabbat.

ALSO...

Remember the Torah's very explicit prohibition on having sex with cattle--so no touchy-touchy!

Of course this does kind of create a bit of a paradox here when it comes to keeping the commandment to multiply. If women are cattle, and sex with cattle is prohibited, who then shall man procreate with? Hmmm... a bit of a quandary there.

GMO babies? Just add water maybe?

Shlomo: Hi honey! I'm home!

Rivka: Mooooo! (continues chewing cud staring vacuously)

Shlomo: Ahhh! This is the life!

[Runner1983]

Neanderthal. Misogynist. Cultist. His only interest is in power and influence ove the poor individuals who cannot exercise their own common sense and critical judgment. This has nothing at all to do with religion. He is not practicing Judiasm, but something else.