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October 11, 2012

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confused

It the knower, I don't understand, are you pro or anti this blog?

The In-the-Knower Rebbetzin

Thanks, Ern!

Ernie

Hmmm, dear "Rebbetzin". It's a strange feeling to know I'm annoying. Or maybe just annoying you. Really, I must be such a hypocrite - visiting a "gossip" blog and at the same time ask people not to gossip.

So pray tell, where else shall I ask them not to gossip? In Wembley Stadium?

Since, as you say, you've already "paid the price", you might as well keep up the great and noble work.

The In-the-Knower Rebbetzin

Ernie, by virtue of being here, the non-gossipers become gossipers. This is the function of this blog, and the reason people come here. In this instance, however, the gossip serves a purpose unlike the gossip on the street corners. Under the cover of our handles, many find strength, resources and information here, and the confidence to take action. In hearing the trolls rebutted, this too provides chizuk. My comment about getting off the internet is only to those who come to a "gossip" blog, and ask people not to gossip. Annoying.
For the record, unprovable as it is since I labour under an alias, I have supported countless survivors of abuse to take action and have paid the price of taking that role. I have a vested interest in being here and will continue to encourage people to discuss in this uncensored forum what the community censors and silences.

R' C H Supporter

R' C H retaliation?

https://twitter.com/ifyoutickleus/status/267778280151724032

Tottenham Gossiper

I couldnt get to the Mir Dinner last night. Anyone know what happend?

Ernie

"In-the-Knower Rebbetzin" - I agree that blogs can have a socially informative function. But unfortunately, many people on this particular blog and topic seem to relish the gossip aspect. If you are "in the know" as your handle claims, go to the police instead of telling non-gossipers to get off the internet.

gedalia

And where was the family till now. How many childrens souls could have been spared had they come out decades back. It is only the internet that is capable putting them in their place. And that is why they ganged together to ban it, look around and see who these offenders next of kin are. Yeah, the fish starts to stink from the head big time. My dear, that's the only thing that saves children's lives and of the women being duped loy oleinu. As the navi said, kulam menoafim verodfei shalmoynim.

The In-the-Knower Rebbetzin

Thank God for the blogs. Else this story and others would be shrouded in the toxic secrecy that allows paeodophiles and their ilk to thrive. If you don't like it, get off the internet.

Tottenham Gossiper

Ernie,

I agree. Its getting boring. Particularly now everyone realises that its no big deal. If not for this and perhaps one or two other blogs, this wouldn't have been the (non) story that it is.

Still, I love a good piece of gossip.

Nussen

Ernie

Guys and Gals -

Are you going to stop this unproductive and damaging gossip (= loshon hora / motzi shem ra) any time soon ?

Banana

PLEASE DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ!
Just because T Grynhaus is a child molester it doesn't mean his family are in it or are evil etc. HE has a problem and his family should not be dragged down because of him!

Tottenham Gossiper

Who is TG? Was TG arrested IN manchester or is he FROM manchester? Does 'Mr 'G' last name end with an N or an R?

Please, I need to know. My thirst for Loshon Horo is now turning to an addiction. If I dont get to satisfy it I will have to turn to Motzei Shem Ra at least not ZL

Concerned Jew

T G from manchester got arrested yesterday and is now out on bail ! Pending further investigations in a number of cases he is being accused of.

anon

all the truth will come out.
If not guilty not guilty and everyone must stop talking at once
if guilty he should be stoned to death

Eldad

Here are some updates for you, my friend. There are over thirty women victims that have not been enemies in prior, and told about their victimization first hand, which has much more bearing than those apologetic Dayenu's sitting on the fence. That is so much more than smoke or mirrors. Although one might not exactly do it in front of cameras, but a hidden microphone in conjunction with some cross examination can do the trick just the same, provided that either an "Objective" Beit Din, or the Court system is given the opportunity. There might be some deliberate Chinese or otherwise whisperers to confuse in order to murky the waters, but the story is on solid grounds in its original and in entirety. The proverb of "kol hagodol mechavero", is of no consolation to the victims, and it's only the perpetrator that can put a stop to the chilul Hashem this entails. There is good reason why dinei yichud are in place, in order to prevent such. To call this 50/50 is kind and generous, not only a bargain, but a steal. Other than that I agree 100%.

Dani (not real name)


im from gg and was very disturbed by the news.
soooo.... i did my own small investigation.

I found it difficult to come to a full conclusion even after phoning two dayonim.

However....using pure common sense given to me by the holy one above can i suggest a few key points which you can take or leave.

no.1 There is never smoke without fire.

no.2 chinese whisperes is incredible try it round your next shabbos table.

no.3 The truth always comes out be patient.

no.4 No one is impervious to taveh the greater the person the greater the taveh.

no.5 Those good people out there looking for strength and are shocked by these rumours may i humbly suggest look at urself and make sure u aint falling.

no.6 lastly and most importantly be extremely mindful that although as it stands its 50/50 guilty or innocent until proven otherwise.
we must try stay with the absolute certainty which is the mentioned Rav HAS MANY POTENTIAL ENEMIES THE RUMOURS would be potentially a nasty and potent revenge(if untrue).

In conclusion how do i feel inside inside?

untainted and truthfully?

I think something did happen .(doesnt meen it really did happen)

WHAT exactly?

Only cameras would tell us.

will this change my view on how i precieve Rabonim?

unfortunately and very sadlyyyyy yes.

HOWEVER As the saying goes there are some good ones and some bad ones.
Rabbi Isreal Salant said one CANT change the world, however certainly one can change oneself.
And he was one of the great ones.

IT JUST MY OWN PERSONAL VIEW AND FEELINGS DOES NOT MEEN IM RIGHT.

food for thought.

Pinchos

Golders green man - There's not much point arguing with you about MH as you obviously don't know the man. Even his supporters agree that he's like a bull in a china shop; they just believe that the ends justify the means.

Regarding this story - your 'testifying' regarding R. SW is worthless inasmuch as you haven't spoken to him about this. Do yourself a favour and ask him in person if/when he's back in town. He may not be willing to disclose much to an outsider, but he's not going to deny anything either.

golders green man

Someone said earlier that r'moshele halpern br other of reb chaim was a horrible person and was involved-i disagree completely.....

anon

Golders green man, who is r moshele and what are you talking about? Has new info come out, Cos I can't see it anywhere

golders green man

Annonymous-i don't know anything about the rumours concerning r'c.h however i know for sure that r'moshele is not a nasty person and that r's.w is not the type of person who would blurt out info that is not known to public yet in such a way. it therefore follows that the rest of what was said by this person is also rubbish.

Ploni Almoni

The question is : Will Hatzolah pull it's sponsorship?

anonymous

Filey Avenue and Golder Green Man, you're talking like all the info is out in the open. I haven't seen anything. Where do you get this info from?

Ernie

BatSheva - I agree with you about "innocent until proven guilty" and in fact I myself expressed that opinion several comments ago last week. But your comment contains some bitterness ( "Innocent until proved guilty is easier to accomplish if you have powerful lawyers ... rosy reputation ... "

I understand you. And perhaps my own position is more dispassionate because I haven't lived in London for over two decades; but I think we should all accept that any person (whether it's a Rabbi with / without rosy reputation, or a drunk janitor)is indeed entitled to be considered innocent until proven guilty. I don't know CH from a hole in the wall and am not emotionally invested in the matter in any way.

Yes, there is the deplorable fact that many, many sexual abuse cases are being swept under the carpet in Charedi circles worldwide. But you have to "judge" each case on its own.

And yes, there are rumours about CH [tons of them], and many of the commentators have claimed they can substantiate those rumours with solid proof - but no-one has, at least not yet.

If all those that say they can prove their case were right, I surmise they should and probably would have come up with much stronger weapons than the mere threats they have uttered so far. Of course they might do so one day, who knows, and in that case we'll see.

I'm not trying to be "frum" or to pontificate, but at this point many of those heated comments, especially 10-14 days ago, only qualify as Loshon Hora (or Motzi Shem Ra?) and suitable (if not necessarily intended) to destroy a Jew, his family, and his children's future.

Of course the situation would totally change if CH's accusers could provide incontrovertible evidence leading to a conviction, or at least to joint action by local Rabbonim. In the latter case, though, I am a cynic myself: ain't gonna happen.


golders green man

Dayan b.b who was a massive tzadik was good friends with r'moshe happen so i therefore DO NOT in any way believe that he is involved. I thereforeikewise do not believe that r'c.h has done anything that he is being accused of. In addition i know r's.w and can testify that he woikd never 'confirm the rumours'. that said i DO agree that kedassia is corrupt regarding their kashrus......

Near Filey Avenue

Rebbetzin dear, please dont get your knickers in a twist over this (Sha'alo ones or otherwise)! Im sure Filey's comments were 'Tongue in Cheek', nothing wrong with that I suppose as long as it was Filey's Tongue in Filey's Cheek!

Keep smiling - it will soon be over then we move on to the next scandal. - An Eruv in Stamford Hill.

BatSheva

CH's congregation and the surrounding community, many of whom are very wealthy, will fight for him to the death as none of them believe these stories. That is certainly not a value judgment, just a statement of fact. Innocent until proved guilty is easier to accomplish if you have powerful lawyers standing up for you firing off writs at anyone who even suggests your rosy reputation is not deserved!

The In-the-Knower Rebbetzin

Oh an btw have they closed down the heilige brothel on der heilige Filey Avenue where only the most choshuveh rabonim and gedoilim go to get their choshuve rocks off? Its been a while since I was in that part of town.
Shame on me for asking about such delicate inyonim, and all that.

The In-the-Knower Rebbetzin

Shame on you, Filey Avenue, for being on the internet and violating a direct order of the heiligge gedolim. Please upload the statements and the women's testimony before you are so quick to pour shame on this website that you were told not to go on.

Filey Avenue

OK. So now that the statements have been given, there is nothing illegal in English law and nothing against Halacha either.

So what have you all accomplished? to create a big Chilul Hashem and almost destroy a Choshuve family all because he helped hundreds of families.

Shame on you Golders Green!

londoner

To the last post. I personally do not know a victim. Most of us don't. But if you do know [as you claim in your signature], then you should be reporting this to the police!!! What are you waiting for??

knows a victim

Ernie - there are several victims. And you are right that Kedassia are not going to kick him out, even though they know themselves that the evidence is rock solid. The only recourse now is to the police.

Ernie

Slacker - Thanks for the link to the Times of Israel article. However, I can't agree with you; upon careful reading I am not at all convinced this in itself would show a likelihood of CH's demise.

The article mentions only one woman (and only "possibly" more than one). And you know as well as we all do how little the testimony of women (let alone just one woman) counts within charedi circles. You can bet your bottom penny that this woman (ASSUMING of course there are no other victims or witnesses) will be put down as disillusioned, frustrated, vindictive, plainly dishonest, or maybe even crazy.

Also, CH and his supporters are quite powerful, well connected and established, and highly determined. This last statement I'm making without any bias, just as a fact.

However, it must be said in CH's defense, that he must be definitely presumed innocent until and unless conclusively proven guilty by iron clad evidence in the inter-Rabbinic process, or convicted by a Court of Law.

So I think the Times of Israel article itself doesn't yet indicate that CH, as you say, "can't last for long now". What might support your opinion, though, is the whole avalanche of comments on this website which claim that that several women were victims. If (IF) those claims are true, and if more women are prepared to come forward and testify and / or if there is other evidence such as tapes, DNA (Yecccchhh !!!), etc., then I would certainly agree with you. But even then, there is a strong likelihood of an internal cover-up, so CH might last very long indeed unless Courts get involved.

My assumption is that even a joint statement by some respected Rabbis asking CH to leave would not suffice to oust him (not that I think such united effort to be likely in any case). CH would entrench with his supporters, resulting in a schism within the community. Which might be a reason (or excuse?) why such joint efforts are highly unlikely, even if individual Rabbis would voice their positions.

So, realistically, unless there is rock-solid proof, credible evidence by several women, or a conviction in Court, CH might well be around forever and a day.

I hope all of this doesn't sound too cynical, but I'm trying to be realistic. After all, what percentage of accused sex offenders have actually been chased out or put into Cherem? (And this doesn't even take into account all those cases that are never brought out into the daylight in the first place).

Slacker

Surely he can't last long now.....

http://www.timesofisrael.com/rumors-of-rabbis-sexual-misconduct-raise-tensions-among-uk-haredim/

Ernie

"Rebbetzin" - Thank you. Really funny. Still, the serious aspects remain.

The In-the-Knower Rebbetzin

This old blog article by Yerachmiel Lopin bears repeating here.

http://frumfollies.wordpress.com/2009/10/06/moetzes-gedolim-response-to-znus-affecting-children-satire/

Bob

Ernie - In answer to your questions - a) Yes b) Sort of. i.e. He has told many people who have asked him individually what he thinks but he hasn't gone and clapped on the bima and announced it. He is currently involved in efforts to deal with the issue less publicly. The same applies to SW.

Ernie

Bob - Has BK condemned him a) clearly [calling a spade a spade] and b) before witnesses? What about SW and other Rabbonim?

Slacker - I appreciate your appreciation. Still, MH (aka, apparently, Porky) is just a corollary issue, deplorable as his behaviour is alleged to be (I don't even know the guy).

The way I see it, the main problems are:

a) How provable are the allegations against
CH, and who is able to act if provable?
b) From which quarters, if any, are there
any cover-up attempts?
c) How can one make Sholem within the
community? [I'm not talking re. CH and
his alleged victims and others involved
but I read a lot of very, very bad vibes
from many of the comments).

Slacker

Ernie

You can't ask questions like that here! This forum is for speculation and rumour only!

Just kidding. In all seriousness I appreciate your attempt to be objective. Obviously I can't name names but I know Porky has started playing rough with at least some of the victims from people who know exactly what's going on from the victim's side.

This is the first comment I've made on the situation because as you say, its big time. As you'll note from other comments on here, people who know him think that Porky is a bully. They won't be surprised at this turn of events at all.

Bob

Ernie - BK has condemned him repeatedly, and he fully realises what these allegations mean.

Ernie

I haven't lived in London for years and in fact don't even know personally many of the people, Rabbonim included, that have been mentioned in the various comments. Plus, I only learned of this whole scandal a day or so ago. So maybe my remarks are less biased, and more dispassionate.

My own humble take is as follows:

ON THE ONE HAND: a) anyone is innocent until proven guilty; b) one has a chiyuv to be dan l'kaf z'chus; c) loshon hora: even claiming one saw a person, say, buy a porn magazine, is loshon hora, and an aveirah in its own right. But the accusations leveled at CH are among the most severe imaginable and can literally kill a person - him, his family, his career, his kids' shidduchim, everything.

I am NOT a Kedassia addict who follows blindly all and any of these "Knyocks'" hashkofos and directives [hey, I don't look down on Mizrachi, and would even carry in the eiruv!] but to accept and spread these accusations against CH prima facie, just like that, without solid [i.e.: incontrovertible] proof is a terrible thing and a very heavy responsibility. Those Rabbonim (BK, PR, etc.) are not necessarily cover-uppers or accessories but maybe just being very careful before condemning a person to the equivalent of death.

ON THE OTHER HAND: if even some of all these rumours prove to be true, then CH should be chased out. And those who covered up for him in the name of "achdus" or a totally misapplied fear of "chillul Hashem" should be exposed. Timid and misguided Rabbonim are not suitable to lead a large community, or any community for that matter. Many of those Rabbonim are not so timid when they yell from their pulpit against Israel, bugs, the eiruv, and other assorted, easily attackable targets. So, IF (IF) indeed it can be proved that there is/was a cover-up, then those Rabbonim who are now cowering (forgive the pun:covering) should bear the consequences too, for being dishonest, weak, and mechallel shem shomayim.

What has upset me big time is the shocking outburst of obviously pented-up resentment and hatred radiating from some of the comments. Is this indicative of some deeply rooted bugs, deeper than those we have to be bodek for in salads?

Maybe Meshiach is just waiting for Achdus.

Just my 2 cents, for whatever it's worth.

ernie

Slacker - If one can prove that Moshe Halpern intimidated potential witnesses, then he's a gonner, big time. How do you know about it? (You need not disclose confidential sources, of course ...).

shimon

mr moshe halpern will rot in hell if he does not beg for forgiveness from the people he has so badly hurt. moshe, no one respects you, you are an out right big fat bully with no sensitive feelings to another human being.

Slacker

Last night Moshe 'Porky' Halpern contacted two of the victims and threatened them that if they ever give evidence to any investigator, CPS, police etc he will'ruin' them. He will ostracise them, throw their children out of the schools and ruin their shidduchim so that they will not be able to get married to anyone in the community.

He's playing with fire as this is a blatant criminal offence of witness intimation

TickleMeElmo

@ Suri | October 29, 2012 at 12:56 PM

On the flip side, how come they are so spineless and keep their deafening silence. As far as the worth of those GoldersgreenGate tapes, if for the Nehemiah Webercams protectors it was worth $500,000, surely this g'enre's is worth so much more. However, for the Thirty++ ladies in protecting the community it is invaluable and privileged for the courts, rather than online. Besides, Online would not be accessible for their followers, since this is the very reason they ban it. If your interested what kind of juicy advice these thirty and growing women received, get a load o' this: http://ifyoutickleus.blogspot.com/

We just finished Parshat Noach and the flood, but it seems that they haven't noticed or learned the lesson, as to why it happened. Well, if they didn't come across "Ki malah ha'aretz Chummus", here is Sandy the Frankenstorm, as a reminder.

Suri

This rumor has been going on for so long and would have been confirmed if there was any substance to it. Can you imagine how much that tape would be worth if it was existed? If they really wanted to 'out' the good Rabbi, why not just post it online! Someone simply didn't like what they were told or the advice given, or possibly actually did something really juicy and created this massive smokescreen. Golders Green is full of questionable characters that used to hide behind money but thats in very short supply now.

Ploni Almoni

Isnt it ironic that the very internet they seek to stifle is the only medium that is airing the scandal. Sure there are kooks spreading rechilus but, as the saying goes: Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
Main thing is that we are boidek the lettuce.

TorahTorah ChigriSak

Frumer, you sound like a angry hormonal teenage baby.
If you have evidence, THEN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
If not then SHUT UP!!

Posted by: Anon | October 28, 2012 at 03:13 AM

Im ba'arazim noflo Shalheves, uma yomru azovei kir. See how the Giants are afraid to Nachshon ben Aminadov "umachrizin" him, since they are AFRAID for their own skin, why should then these poor lady victims be so courageous and in rush coming forth. Haven't you seen the HARASSMENTS that these BNEI ANAKIM inflict on theese poor victims, victimizing them all over again, SODOMIZING them all over again, WEBBERMAN'IZING them all over again, KOLKO'IZING them all over again, MONDROWITZ'IZING them all over again, and the endless list goes on and on BECHOL mekomot yoshvei tevel she'heim. So much so, that Vehayissa MESHUGA mimareh einecha. Vehanashim raiim vachtaiim lahashem meod, ZA'AKAT Sdom VA'morah ki robo! All go on wondering and rightfully asking, why, and how come they do so? It is simply for selfish reasons, protecting their own behinds, or the behinds of next of kin, that's why! This is the best living example of such. This entity has just very recently and in prior, protected molesters & molestors inc., rapists LTD., etc.,etc., only to be afterwards alleged of the same. His next of kin obey Omerte, all else is peachy keen. All this, miktzas shv... befan.. Where is the outcry, where are all the Gevaldevess? Where are the Kol KOREH'S? Where are all the PASHKEVILIIN'S? Nahhhh, this is not for the commoner to question, this is reserved only for the blue blooded BIG GUYS, NEFILIM BNEI ANAKIM looking into it, ve'ein lecha reshus leharher achreha. WE the PEOPLE, we are immune, one EIFAH for you, another EIFAH for the ALMIGHTY. OY'oyyoy, how the MIGHTY HAVE FALLEN. With a little INSIGHT, one cannot help but realize, that this is AN OT MIN HASHAMAYIM of what's really going on behind the scenes, WHY SUCH CAN GO ON with impunity.

Back to our main topic. My dear Mr. Anon, I have news for you. As the Hurricane picks up speed and momentum from the South, other Storms join in from the North, Earth Shattering Earthquakes & Tzunamis from the West, and the whole East Coast is in Havoc, Destruction and Turmoil, Kein hadavar ha'hi. As of present, there are about THIRTY (30) BRAVE VICTIMS that came forth and going strong. THEY DECIDED NOT TO SHUT UP and ARE DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT! They will be in great need of Rachmei Shamayim to withstand these ZAAF VERUCHOS SANDY FRANKENSTORMS of BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS from the ENABLING PROTECTORS. If the prior given conditions will not be heeded, you can rest assure, that they will sling the mud (and I don't mean no mud) towards while hitting the fan, smelling all the way to Denmark, right on mark, and that will not be a pretty sight. As the Chacham mikol adam has said, "Tov hashnayim min haechad, there IS strength in numbers, just have a little patience. Uma yomru haGoyim? Uma yomru haYidden? Uma im haChillul Hashem, does anyone still care?

And one more thing. If anyone can be so kind and shed some light on how such WEBBERMAN'S, MONDROWITZ'S, KOLKO'S, vechol shaar minei Mariin Bishin's have been handled all through the generations and Millennium, rather AL PI CHUKEI HATORAH, TALMUD, VEHALACHA , VELO AL PI CHUKEI SDOM VA'AMORAH, such as gang harassing, sweeping it under the rug..., together with credible sources and marei mekomot. This ma'assei Eretz Mitzrayim is nothing new. It has been going on since Dor Hamabul, veDor Haflaga, Sdom Va'amorah R"L.

frumer

Anon, are u married? if yes, i feel awfully sorry for your wife, i can imagine you speak like this to your wife too, you are probably 1 of the many abusers around that also deserves a good beating. u dirty scumbag

Anon

Frumer, you sound like a angry hormonal teenage baby.
If you have evidence, THEN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
If not then SHUT UP!!

knows a victim

By the way, between all the ladies that have come forward and the lists provided by therapists, it has become clear that this man has over thirty victims. Police, are you there?

frumer

chaim chaim chaim,listen carefuly! if u dont stand down in the next 24 hours, i will make sure that you get locked up for life with every bit of evidence that i have. no way are you going to get away with your despicable crimes.

joe L

'he who pays the piper'

very accurate, you're on the ball
there are now SEVEN signed affidavits
the JC expose this week

BatSheva

Golders Greener - you are living in a dream world. Many from Munks carry as do many from Hendon Adass, despite their Rabbonim telling them not to. They might not carry publicly, i.e, they will have things in their pockets but not carry anything in their hands, but they still carry. Even most of the Golders Green Rabbonim who are against the Eruv are against it for what can best be described as reasons of hashkofa not halacha. Reb Chunas has virtually no carriers but there are a few. However Reb Chuna has a son who it is claimed is a handler. What is worse to be a carrier one day a week or a handler seven days a week?

Slacker

I was born in Stamford Hill but have long since moved on. A number of years ago I consulted for a translation firm to translate some texts from "Modern Yiddish - Spoken" to English.

I was just approached by the firm for an unspecified job. They provided me with a sample word list for me to ascertain whether I have the required skills for this translation. Now it just so happens that I've been paying very close attention to the Ch story. It also just so happens that every word on the sample list is on the comments section of either this site or ifyoutickleus. Coincidence? Maybe... but some are quite obscure.

(I didn't take the job)

He who pays the piper

Just a few words of warning for those who think that they will succeed in covering up Chaim Halpern's crimes, and to Chaim himself: we are onto you, and we mean business. Don't think that you will outsmart the police by changing your phone and your computer.

Rav Padwa, your pathetic excuses would be laughable were their results not so tragic.

Gavriel Schleider, don't think your tricks are going to work here. You are playing a very risky game, and I'm surprised your boss is allowing you to gamble with his reputation in this way. There are simply too many victims and they are not going to buy into the phony 'objectivity' that your kangaroo court is claiming, with you on Chaim Halpern's payroll, some therapist under Kedassia's thumb and Padwa already admitting that he won't take serious action. Also, don't be lured into believing that your actions are escaping police scrutiny - they are paying very close attention to what is going on here, and don't think they are going to let this go in a hurry.

To Chaim, if you're reading this - you must have realised that your crimes would catch up with you one day, but you have at least managed to make the most of it while you were able.

And yes, those who wrote in Manchester all those years ago 'Chodosh ossur min hatorah', with 'Chodosh' roshei teivos 'Chaim doiver shekorim' were onto something, and yes, don't think your victims from back then have been forgotten either. You had your chance to quit while you were ahead, but you arrogantly refused to take it, so now you must face the music.

Rav Padwa - it is such a shame that with your short-sightedness and abysmal handling of the situation you are aggravating the problems rather than solving them.

A final note to the victims - don't be fooled into thinking that Kedassia and its machers have any desire to 'get to the bottom of this' and 'do the right thing'. They could not be more conflicted in their interests here and keeping up appearances and protecting their own will always come before bringing abuse to light and dealing with its perpetrators, especially when that perpetrator is the ultimate insider. There are enough of you, and you will find support from within and without for your courageous battle.

Shmuel Engel

Has he been in court already or is he going next week? Do you know when?

joe L

It's all quiet this week because he's appearing in Wood Green CC as a witness for the prosecution and the Police were concerned that his credibility would be questioned if the JC printed the expose this week

dov1

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/88061/rape-accuser-rabbis-would-not-help-me

Shmuel Engel

But the other rabbonim are guilty for saying and doing nothing. Padwa has known that Chaim Halpern is a molester for ages - and what does he do - tell people to carry on asking him shaalos. The whole thing is rotten to the core. Yes there are a few brave rabbonim (and they are mostly vilified and/or attacked) but the main response is 'no comment'. These useless beards are all very brave when it comes to ranting and raving about the evils of the outside world but when it comes to sticking their heads above the parapet to eliminate the evil that goes on in their own back yards they are nowhere to be seen. And they have the chutzpah to say that such problems should be left in the hands of the rabbonim.

dov1

I am not arguing with you, it certainly is rotten for the reasons you mention. But I would not accuse any other rov in London for what this rov has been accused.
And I would add it is only the power structure which is rotten not the whole chareidi 'religion'.

The Revolution Will be Televised

Michal - spot on and brilliantly said.

Yiddishkeit is so far removed from how it should be inside these "frum" communities - unfortunately the power hierarchy will not change anytime soon, unless frum education in schools is changed and communities learn to actually think for themselves.

Michal

Dov1 - yes in this specific case, in this specific community it is only 1 rov.
But how many similar cases have there been in similar communities?? And given the cover-up mentality prevalent, especially the more right-wing a community is, it's fair to assume that there are far more problems going on that we even know about.

Social workers and marriage counsellors s who work with the charedi communities in Israel and abroad can tell you hundreds of stories of sexual abuse, incest, affairs, rabbis getting psychologists to prescribe drugs for people displaying homosexual or "kfira" thoughts.

In Israel there's an additional problem of charismatic charlatans promising to cure every kind of illness under the sun (for a decent donation) that seem to suck in a whole group of people, but that's another issue.

Ultimately the problem is the same - the power structure is rotten. The community members idolise their rabbis and stop thinking for themselves. It creates an environment where corruption and abuse of power is inevitable.

dov1

Its only one rov.

Michal

Reading all of this, I have really only one point to make. Thank G-d I got out when I did!!
No, that doesn't mean I'm no longer religious. I've always been observant, just not on the "inside" of these types of communities. It means thank G-d I realised that that these "frum communities" are built around power, money and politics and have almost nothing what so ever to do with G-d or Torah (remember,G-d and Torah? Religious values?).

Just listening to the way some of the posters here have described the politics and the power struggles....it makes me sick. In my opinion, the community members are as much to blame as the perpetrators. You put "Rabbonim" on pedal stalls, shove women into the kitchen, develop an ideology of "daat torah" i.e. find a Rav and disengage your brain (excellent way to exert control) and then you wonder why you get abuses of power, massive egos and cover-ups of all kinds of things that have gone on.

Wake up people!!

chuna

כי עוף השמים יוליך את הקול ובעל כנפיים יגיד דבר

Shmuel Engel

Chaim'ke - I hope you're savouring your last few shiurim here - the next ones may have to be in Ivrit.

Alex

No - it's because he made a pass at lots of other people's wives. And now the time has come for justice.
מאריך אפיה וגבי דיליה

Ultimately

I heard that the reason why BK has it in for CH is cos CH made a pass at BK's wife!

Alex

Golders Greener - Yes, it is important to stress - the reason Chaim Halpern must go is nothing to do with the eruv. Even the most anti-eruv person should not tolerate this man just because he shares their position on one issue. Boruch Hashem he will soon be on his way out - and GG will be under the dominion of ehrliche rabbonim - anti and pro-eruv alike.

Golders Greener

Shmiel,

GGBH (Munks), Reb Chunas and Hendon Addass won't carry whatever happens. also Bridge Lane Rov is RSW who is totally against the Eruv as well, though a large part of his Kehilla don't listen to him about this.
He is so much against eruvim that when they wanted to make one in Brookside Road-Sneath Avenue-Highfield Road where even Kedassiah were happy to make it, RSW who lives there stopped it!

Alex

And it couldn't have come a moment too soon.
באבוד רשעים רינה

Shmiel  London

if the Helpern empire does fall golders green will all be carrying in the eruv in a few weeks. the kedassia will be finished.

Duvid

The clock is ticking....

Nutkins

As an outsider reading this, I have no idea what is truth and what is lies. I know for a fact that some of the allegations in the public comments are simply untrue and some people are using this forum to have a go at anyone they happen not to like. All this undermines any serious cover-ups from legitimate investigations and ultimately helps no one.

yosef-london

yay! lets get the press involved! lets get all the shmutz on the front papers! yay!

zanvil

Oh boy oh boy, Chaimy have you got a present coming. I have my camera all ready just to batch your face when you see the surprise they have in store for you. I can barely sit down I'm so excited.

Yehuda from LONDON

can we all ask that this post gets deleted (like the first one)its seems like there is such a baseless hatred between GG and SH
which is being vented on this post using the accused as the reason behind the sinah!
lets all grow up, this story saga has been dragged to the surface for too long to just be covered up and i am sure the rabbonim will have to say something one way or another and up until that point why should we mix in and mess up.
lets wait for the verdict which must be coming any time soon and then everyone can start voicing opinions, at the moment he is innocent until proved guilty.
none of this, "my family suffered" from the Anon whos not in denile!!!would stand up in beis din or court.
lets wait and see. watch this space (or the next post!)

Anon

No one believes he did anything which would be a matter for the police. Even not for the misnagdig LBD.

Mark

A woman asks the rabbi to persuade her husband to issue a Get. The rabbi refuses. The woman says that if he does not act, she will accuse him of assault. What should the rabbi do?

We all enjoy gossip, but what we see here is a character assassination of a fine, learned and modest man. I know he is innocent.

shlomi

Daniel mashgiach anon. and all the rest, I dont have much with the accused but everyone will agree he has given up a lot of his life for GG and yes! for you in SH as well.

He has been very involved in counseling and as there are always 2 sides to every story in a divorce if one side feels the Rabbi has taken the other side, they being human will bear a grudge and some grudge bearers could stoop as low as spreading terrible rumours. all the above makes sense.

Therefore until anyone of you dont put hard evidence on the table a name (which doesnt really make sense a story brewing for over a week on the streets and NOT one single " victim" name has even surfaced) it would make sense assume someone has a score to settle and stooped rather low.

As for Rabbi SW, whatever anyone says he has not condoned the man in public which would be expected if he is a believer of all the alleged crimes committed.

Heiliger Rabbonim De'London don't leave the world to stoop to such levels of filth to revel in such moitzi shem ra/ loshon hora.

anon

My maggid shiur learns with him every day and describes him as a malach.
I don't believe even 0.01% of what's been alleged.
It's disgusting and I don't think Hashem is getting any naches from his children.
Ironic that this weeks Sedrah is Noach and the people at that time needed to be be killed by a flood for their evil ways.
Isn't a man ( and in this case a very holy one ) innocent till proven guilty.
Shame on you all.

annonymous

personally i think his wife needs to dress up for him, and dress more for the occasion.

Foreigner

this story will go away and would just leave a stain on his name, CH is to powerfull, he should at least stand down but i don't see that happening, abusers will still continue and will always be protected within our community, this is very sad and wrong but true. so abusers start going for Rabbis children and lets see if they report you

Ben

That RSW commented on this case is also only a rumour. Heard it from someone who heard it from.....

Dr S

Padwa is involved - completely and utterly on CH's side. The woman who made the innitial allegations was abused by her husband and is not stable at all - she is well known by Bikus Cholim D'Satmar of Stamford Hill!

Simon

You should all be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves. Rumours are like a tsunami, they destroy all in their path. None of you are safe from the destruction you bring upon your community and the jewish world. Have you learned nothing from history? You are; take your pick: a bull in a china shop, throwing stones in your glass house, blowing in your house of cards. Stop this venomous ping pong before history repeats itself and engulfs us all in rumours about jews, we all know where those rumours lead to.

Rebbe

Just imagine he'd been caught drinking non-shomered milk or carrying inthe eiruv, rachmono litzlon. He'd have been put on the first flight out of town.

anon

Shocked at some of the comments...what's happened to innocent until proven guilty. Shame on all the speculators.

anonymous

ITS TIME FOR RABONIM TO STOP FOCUSING ON INTERNET ISSUES. SMELL THE COFFEE, WE NEED TO FOCUS ON HOW LOVE SHOULD BE IN THE HOUSE, HOW TO LOVE YOUR WIFE MORE AND HOW TO LOVE YOUR CHILDREN MORE.
WOMEN NEED TO KNOW HOW TO TURN THERE HUSBANDS ON, AND HOW IMPORTANT A GOOD RELATION SHIP IS.
LETS GET REAL, AS THIS IS THE REAL IMPORTANCE IN LIFE

anonymous

We can assume that the accused is following this trickle of information, as he is known to be tech savvy. He should not convince himself that this will blow over. His detractors will no doubt pursue this cause until all the info is revealed OR he stands down. Often, people with insincere or ulterior motives are those that uncover the truth, because others have no heart to do so. The discussion as to the motivation of the accusers is not related to the discussion about the veracity of these allegations. By way of analogy (although some roles are reversed), the discussion over the kashrus of an Eruv should be distinguished from the debate about the sincerity and motivation of the opposers.

Daniel

Mashgiach - what do you mean break rank? Which other rabbonim do you know who were involved? And the fact that other rabbonim have (wisely) chosen not to take this on, as they will only have grief from it, is irrelevant. They're not exactly affirming his innocence either.

I agree with you that the man on the street does not have sufficient reason to believe anything, but if you're waiting for the accused or a family member to get up and admit guilt then you're simply being silly.

Mashgiach

What a paragon of virtue you are Daniel

I'm assuming you've seen and heard the full evidence in this case which allows you, not RSW, to pass judgment.

please remember we're speaking about arguably the most respected rav of gg who has undoubtedly done a tremendous amount of good. and this should all be forgotten on the basis of pure rumors?

concerning rumors, there have been many going around, some which even contradict each other so please do not just jump on the proverbial bandwagon.

with regards to RSW, whilst undoubtedly a ish tomid and well respected there are many more learned and respected in the community who have decided to reserve judgement until they have to. I fail to see why he had to break rank.

Daniel

o it sounds like he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't in your book.

Zero tachlis? Are you completely mad? I think it is extremely important for people to know if one of the most prominent rabbonim in London is unworthy of his position.

And how do you know what has been proven or not? It may not have been proven to you, and I respect your right (and would actually advise you) to withhold judgement until you hear it first hand, but if it has been proven enough to R. SW for him to speak of it to others (and rest assured that a man who has campaigned his whole life for shmiras haloshon knows full well when speaking badly of another is le'to'eles) then you can sure as heck believe it. I promise you he does not need the tzores of taking this case on.

Dave

Although R SW is a lovely guy he is not the be all and end all of truth. Firstly he would not dabble in loshon hora. I hope. there are very few of his congregants who would in any case go to the accused and as such zero tachlis, even if true but more importantly at the moment it is all conjecture, every wild rumor, and nothing has been proven.

David

There are no police charges, no pending TV investigate report coming out. All will continue as it always should have done. With no abuse.

I don't believe this crap and frankly neither should any of you.

Anon

Ex camper, the police won't investigate unless people come forward. Are you prepared to speak to the police about what Strom did to you and others? That's the only way these reshoim will be brought down.

Duvid

Believe me there is much more. One of his earlier victims is willing to go forward if nothing is done. The journalist has the story - all he needs is confirmation from the victim. This can be averted if they do what is necessary.

dovid

I am not the poster duvid.
I suppose the national press is very interested. But what can you tell him more than whats written here.
Why is it such a great secret who the lawyer is. Do you work for him. I have already guessed, its most likely a harley street one.
They have lost GG long ago when they lost frohwein. Its only the older rabbonim roberts and e halpern that keep them in.
And roberts can jump ship anytime to the feds. He has more in common with them. Now enfield is full up, the union has nothing to offer to make them stay.

dovid

I am not the poster duvid.
I suppose the national press is very interested. But what can you tell him more than whats written here.
Why is it such a great secret who the lawyer is. Do you work for him. I have already guessed, its most likely a harley street one.
They have lost GG long ago when they lost frohwein. Its only the older rabbonim roberts and e halpern that keep them in.
And roberts can jump ship anytime to the feds. He has more in common with them. Now enfield is full up, the union has nothing to offer to make them stay.

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