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October 11, 2012

London Haredi Rabbi Rape And Sex Scandal?

Alleged victimA very prominent haredi rabbi in London has allegedly used his position as a marriage counselor to coerce women into having sex with him. The rabbi was allegedly exposed to the rabbinic heads of Kedassia (the haredi Union of Orthodox Hebrew Congregations) when one of those women taped the rabbi and threatened to give to police unless the rabbi resigns and leaves town. (She may have also given a copy to the Kedassia beit din, religious court.) Several haredi rabbis have privately tried to get this rabbi to resign his positions and leave London, but no one has called police. So far, the rabbi has refused to leave the city and Kedassia heads have allegedly asked the rabbis to leave the city, but have taken no action past that.

 

This situation appears to very similar to the case against alleged child rapist Rabbi Nechemya Weberman of Williamsburg – except no one in hasidic leadership in Williamsburg has done anything to try to deal with Weberman. (Weberman was eventually arrested because an alleged victim went to police.)

A London haredi blog has discussed some of the scandal in very opaque terms.

I have the name of this rabbi and a few more details, but I won't publish them until I can get confirmation.

Here is the Jewish Chronicle's brief article on the London scandal via IfYouTickleUs. It isn't online yet:

Jewish Chronicle Haredi Rabbis' scandal 10-11-2012

Comments

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I'm not sure how a marriage counselor can use that position to "coerce women to have sex with him". I'm not saying it is not a scandal, but I don't see how it's rape.

Well, it's definitely not "legitimate rape."

well, we might hear many a living word about all this...

Fuck shmarya

Is he counseling before marriage or during marriage?

Exerting undue influence in a role of power such as a therapist or a leader of a congregation makes the sex forced by its nature. The victim is unable to give truly informed consent and is fearful of getting help.

Do you also want to defend child molesters because the 13 year old didn't object enough for you?

Fuck shmarya

Posted by: jack | October 11, 2012 at 09:16 PM

Looks like you've got a british fan club going.

well at least its with a woman and not a boy or a child.


It is similar to the Stockholm Syndrome, or better yet THE WEBERMAN SYNDROME. When the marriage is on the rocks she is in kind of a hostage situation, while the HERR Counselor RABINER is in power to manipulate which way to sway the marriage and taking advantage of the situation, people that are nebach desperate tend to be more vulnerable. More so, once equipped with highly sensitive privileged information while spilling her heart and guts out, he might leverage it against her in many imaginative ways, the sky is the limit, telling her "if you know what's good for you", you will do this, that or the other, as well as to zip the lip. Point in case, the WEBERMAN case, sweet talk peppered with NECHEMIAH talk as in this parshas hashavua Snake oil salesman talk, concocted with some voodoo therapy mixed into the witches brew. As they say, one dog doesn't bit the other dog, kein hadavar hahi. It is only the amcha that are expendable when they show the chazir fissel and they are up in arms "MUSSER", "USSER", not so when it comes to "Mishelanu" or "anshei shlomenu" characters. Have we yet mentioned, gevald, shomu shamayim,"YICHUD", and did anybody scream in the grandiose stadiums, "BLOODY MURDER", what a "CHILLUL HASHEM", or shall we say, that is reserved only for the Internet because that is the voice of the talkback people? Now that's what the Mishnah describes and says, beikvosay dem'eshichay, chutzpah yasgei, pnei hador kipnei hakelev, kalvei haklavim. However, veda ki al kol ele yeviacha Elokim bamishpat. These people can bring not only a GESHEM, but also a MABUL all over again. Hazos KEDASS?, Ya? Hazos Kedin? hah?

I don't see why people are focusing on whether it is rape. It is unethical and unhalachic. If it is sex with a married woman it could be true arayos d'oiraysa. Apart from legality this is absolute scandalous rabbinic corruption. If the story is true, the rabbonim who are covering up or not acting are disgracing their claim to be orthodox rabbis or even simple menschen. This truly seems like a major scandal.

My question is why should anyone trust a Kedasiah hashgachah if they are so unhalachic.

Kedassia are well known to be the most corrupt and morally bankrupt hashgochah / beis din in the UK by those who directly deal with them.

Unfortunately they have a stranglehold on the Frum community.

Nothing will happen here, even with the allegations of numerous rape cases and the systematic cover up of peadophelia.

When "esteemed" leaders who are the "pillars" of the frum community act like this without fear of impunity, and abuse their powers of authority all over the world, I can honestly understand why so many youngsters want nothing to do with Yiddishkeit in today's day and age.

What paper is this, I would like some feedback. Was this a well know paper ?

My comment on the "if you tickle us" post:

mimanafshach - If he didn't do anything, don't do anything to him. And if he did, don't just send him away to do it again somewhere else where no one knows what he did before. We can't trust rabbis to investigate. The JC needs to name names.

Quacker Free, it's The Jewish Chronicle which is a national Jewish paper in the UK. Kinda like the federation-sponsored paper in a big US city, I guess. http://www.thejc.com/

I also don't get the comment about "at least it's a women". Had it said "at least it's with an adult rather than a child", meila, but it came off preferring straight abuser rather to a gay ones. It's like discussing when there's a car accident if they were driving on Shabbat. Other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

I've read the ifyoutickleus blog.

I live in Golders Green, I know the Rabbi in question well - everyone does - it's pretty obvious from the blog who it is.

I'm not a Charedi apologist - but let me just say I really find it hard to believe. I can't get my head round it. It's mindboggling. If true it would be a scandal of epic dimensions.

One last word. The JC is a virulently anti-Haredi paper, has been that way for the last 20 years. They have models in swimsuits in the Rosh Hashana edition. Please dont report everything they write, as gospel truth

Brian - why should London be exempt from the scourge of filthy rapist "holy" men?

Why is it so hard to believe? Oh yeah, women are involved. Can't take the side of walking wombs against a rabbi.

Do you expect these guys to have "I'm Scum" embroidered into their kippot, or to say things like "Hi Brian, how's it going? I've raped three women this week, I'm exhausted"?

Rapists and sexual abusers look like everyone else. They're not masked strangers lurking in bushes, they're rabbis, bakers, uncles, teachers, shochets, brothers, etc. If they had a particular look, if they broadcast who they were, nobody would ever get hurt. Instead, sadly, because they're "nice guys" or "really choshuve" you ignore the women and children they hurt. You organise rallies for them, you shun the victims, and that does two things.


1) Gives the bastard a license to carry on hurting people.

2) Tells victims there's no point speaking up.

Brian - It is more than true. Call up the two rabbonim who are involved and ask them if you can still bring shaalos to R. Chaim. I mean SW and BK. Please call them and you'll see the truth. There is a shocking cover up going on and something needs to be done.

Brian - It is more than true. Call up the two rabbonim who are involved and ask them if you can still bring shaalos to R. Chaim. I mean SW and BK. Please call them and you'll see the truth. There is a shocking cover up going on and something needs to be done.

Posted by: Yoav | October 12, 2012 at 08:27 AM

As you appear to know far more than the others above, perhaps you can elaborate - what details are you familiar with?

I still find it hard to believe. Not saying it's not possible - just a bit of a shock

Instead, sadly, because they're "nice guys" or "really choshuve" you ignore the women and children they hurt. You organise rallies for them, you shun the victims, and that does two things.


1) Gives the bastard a license to carry on hurting people.

2) Tells victims there's no point speaking up.

Posted by: No_Light | October 12, 2012 at 07:48 AM

A gratuitous and foolish comment.

I tried to make it clear that I wasn't saying I don't believe the story, as in, i think it's made up. More like, I am stunned by the story and find it hard to take in.

I do not condone rallies for oppressors, so I have no idea where you got that from.

The allegations do not involve intercourse, just physical
Intimacy of varying degrees. Still totally unacceptable behaviour. Sadly, some people are not buying it. The rabbonim who have heard the evidence are shocked, but Kedassia are unwiling to do very much. Typical.

Brian, i can confirm that Yoav is spot on with his assertions re. Rge various rabbonim he refers to.

In the UK, a private individual cannot go around accusing others of adultery without risking severe legal consequences. If the allegations are false, he risks liability for slander or libel. If the allegations are true, then he risks liability under the Human Rights legislation for breach of privacy.

Accordingly no beis din, or other such private body or individual should ever invite any individual to answer complaints of sexual misconduct such as adultery however strong the evidence may be since it has no business whatsoever in poking into other peoples private lives in the first place.

There is NO action anyone can take in this case if no crime was committed. I would never investigate or discipline any of my employees for suspected adultery nor would I publicize compromising photos as evidence of adultery. People are entitled to privacy as regards lawful sexual conduct, even if they are Rabbis.

The London Jewish Chronicle will never pursue this story. The UK press are under extreme pressure at the moment regarding past press misconduct in breaching privacy.

1)
>Here is the Jewish Chronicle's brief
>article on the London scandal via
>IfYouTickleUs. It isn't online yet:

It is now online:
http://www.thejc.com/node/85893

2)
>The rabbi was allegedly exposed to the
>rabbinic heads of Kedassia (the haredi
>Union of Orthodox Hebrew Congregations)

Financial information regarding this THE UNION OF ORTHODOX HEBREW CONGREGATIONS Charity #249892 can be found at:

http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/ContactAndTrustees.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=249892&SubsidiaryNumber=0

Financial Statements for year ended December 31, 2010:
http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends92/0000249892_ac_20101231_e_c.pdf

Anyone that would go to a rabbi for marriage counseling today is a fool, but does not deserve to be raped by them.

Brian, it's naive people like you, who think "Rebbe's dont do such things" that are a part of the vicious circle that allows these people to get away with what they do.
The "rabbi" in question reported three boys to the authorities for stealing a car on shabbas but helped a known peodophile escape the country before R'Hashonoh.

And this from people our children look up to as role models.

Strange how those in power in all religions seem to be inloved in the same cover-ups, perversions and crimes.

I hope the women invloved have the strength to go to the police without fear of being ostracized by the charedei community to expose this man for what he is.

Brian, publishing swimsuit ads in the Rosh Hashanah edition is not evidence that the JC is virulently anti-Haredi. It means they are not religious and don't care if people who are frum don't want to see swimsuit ads. Those are NOT the same thing.

How many of his 'followers' will even have access to the internet to know about this? Why on earth would he not step down if confronted? Whilst nobody is perfect he should not be in a position of authority to be looked up to or given access to vulnerable people or people in general for that matter.

Brian - by "You" I meant all of you non-believers. Fool.


Here's the deal, it's people like you who enable predators. I worked with sex offenders for years. If you met them in a bar, at Shul, the library, you would think "Wow! This guy's great!"


They're very charming, persuasive, affable and warm. That's how they're able to do what they do. They work very slowly, become part of your community. Maybe you have them by your house every shabbes, or they teach. Torah portions to Bar Mitzvah boys. Perhaps they're the 'candy guy' at Shul, or they do kiruv.

They're so helpful, great with the kids, a real asset to your chevre. Then you hear rumours, he upset a boy by touching him, he left his old community after an "incident". You all dismiss it. "A misunderstanding is all!" or "They're jealous of his popularity! He could have any woman he wanted, why would he do that?"

As soon as those waters are. tested, as soon as the predator among you knows he's got you suckered in, that's a big green light. A giant, flashing "GO" sign, telling him to go for it, pick some victims and do what he wants.


Two words - Jimmy Savile.

The Chofetz Chaim makes it very clear that one must not believe Loshon Hora. One never knows the motives of someone carrying out a character assassination.

Bk has been jealous of reb c for years
Reb pr was asked if its true he told reb c to leave town and he answered chas vesholom

the post on "if you tickle us" was taken down, so we might as well document here that a congregant of the beith hamedrash divrei chaim in golders green declared that he could not believe that such accusations leveled against his rabbi were founded in any way.

Other commentators mentioned that the accused rabbi was also responsible for a girl's school, and the Rabbi of Divrei Chaim happens to be the responsable Rabbi for Beis yaakov primary school in golders green... (I don't know about the secondary school).

Just to keep the info in the net...

What is Etrenthrau's position on this?

R. SW has affirmed that the rumours are true. I heard it tonight. Which imbeciles would think that ehrlich rabbonim would stoop to character assassination?

Why are the Rabbi's name sin initials?

ut the man and shmaya can you ascertain if it is a chabad rabbi or not

Do not believe Sholom that SW would confirm these rumors.

R' SW also agrees with the concept of 'loshon hora / motzi shem ra' and doubt he would comment on the veracity of the rumours.

Never mind agreeing with the concept of loshon hora, he is well known as a pillar of shmiras haloshon and a man of tremendous integrity. If he feels it is necessary to warn people away from this man, that is saying something.

as I said all complete conjecture.
r pr never said what has been claimed that he said and doubt that r sw would be stupid enough to let things be said in his name.
it's hardly Jimmy saville-esq. we've got a undetermined number of people claiming two or three wildly different theories regarding the matter of which no-one I'd aware who these claimants are.
hamotzi mechaverav allov horeyah

Mashgiach - I actually agree with you on that. The man on the street is not beholden to whatever commenters say on a blog. That g why I am praying that those in the know will overcome their fears and speak up. In the meantime, you'll have to search around a bit to find the truth.

Those of you not familiar with London or Europe, think of the most well-known hareidi rabbi you know in your own country and then imagine the size of this scandal.

BTW, for a short time the presumed was also nominal head of the largely, but not totally Chabad European organisation, RCE. Nominally, because he gave it hareidi credibility although it has always been effectively run only by Chabadskers. The presumed pulled out because they weren't hareidi enough for his liking - particularly on tznius stuff.

Why so shy, Shmarya? Everyone in Europe's hareidi communities knows who this is. And my guess is that now that Shabbos is over, all of Brooklyn knows too.

No, it's not chabad, it's someone with a streimel...

His shul is divrei chaim and his first name is also chaim...

Soso

Be careful

The UK courts have a far reaching hand. Posts like yours could earn you a Writ for Libel. Do you have enough money to defend yourself in court.

THe last place Chaim Halpern wants to be in is a court of law.

that's the advantage of the internet: it's more difficult to censor... Even if you do it in one country, this does not mean it is possible for other countries...

If, for some reason, tickle had to take down his post, there are international blogs who can still conserve the information...

By the way: what's interesting is that a Divrei Chaim congregant and Fan of Rabbi Chaim was the one who gave his identity away on "tickle"... I suppose there are stupid people all over the world...

...

http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=4371357989254214618&postID=5534519582525675505&page=1&token=1350220993590

That site is now up again with over 30 comments.
well worth a visit.
So is frum follies with background to it.

Jewish law requires two kosher qualified witnesses for such allegations. Innocent until proved guilty! It once happened that a woman admitted to R Moshe Feinstein just before her son's Chupah that she had been mezaneh many years before and the Choson was really a mamzer. R Moshe asked if there had been any witnesses. As there had been no witnesses, R Moshe ignored her and proceeded to be mesader kiddushin.

In this case, a woman could have threatened the rabbi that he should make the husband issue a get, and if not she will blackmail him with accusations of assault. The rabbi is then helpless. In England, rape allegations made by women have often been found later to be false.

EVEN IF the rabbi is considered guilty, Chazal say that you don't think bad about him, because he would have already done teshuvah by the morning after. How can God show mercy for our own sins if we have no mercy on others?

So just leave this rabbi alone.

This rabbi never raped anyone. Read the post carefully.
He just made a few 'suggestions'.
The problem is that he is accused of doing it a bit too often.

This is huge

The rabbis mentioned.
Rabbi PR is pinchas roberts of hendon adass
Rabbi SW is shimon weingarten of Bridge lane.

Jewish law requires two kosher qualified witnesses for such allegations. Innocent until proved guilty!…

Posted by: Mark | October 14, 2012 at 08:49 AM

Please.

I'm so sick of haredim who have third grade educations.

Here's how it works, 'Mark':

If there is raglayim l'davar – and there is in this case – then the rapist rabbis is treated as if he were guilty with regard to yichud, etc., and he can't keep doing his job until the charges are tried and resolved.

If he's found innocent, he can go back to work.

If he's guilty, he can't.

Past that, batei din regularly imprisoned criminals when there were not two kosher witnesses. Hlakha talks about this and allows it and even encourages it.

But you're an ignoramus, Mark, the product of a defective education system run by corrupt, self-serving men.

And you're clearly not bright enough or intellectually honest enough to have done your own research.

@Mark : In England, rape allegations made by women have often been found later to be false.

Are you on any medication? An allegation should be pursued by the police and CPS through the courts so that people like this can be brought to justice. One does not get to observe their own twisted version of justice their religion mandates they MUST accept the laws of the land and be held accountable for their actions. Failing that you and he could always pack up and go off to a country that does tolerate this kind of ****!

there is no raglayim ledavar, it is all rumours running around town, no names, no basis to anything
the rav is very powerful in the community & very well respected, and has been involved in enough dinei torah & gittin to get many enemies
the average person in golders green does not believe any story, and is strongly supporting the rav

Well two rabbonim dont seem to be supporting him. And they should know better than the 'average' person in GG.
Rabbis Berel Knopfler and Shimon Weingarten.

"there is no raglayim ledavar, it is all rumours running around town, no names, no basis to anything
the rav is very powerful in the community & very well respected, and has been involved in enough dinei torah & gittin to get many enemies
the average person in golders green does not believe any story, and is strongly supporting the rav"

100% true and the rabbi is as cool as a cucumber. He doesn't look worried or guilty

rav knopfler has long been jealous at the rav & his family and is not part of keddasia, the question is on rav shimon, but i hav asked around & not heard any concrete evidence that rav shimon has said anything

I'm surprised no-one else here has commented on what a shoddy, dishonest journalist Shmarya is. He writes:

A very prominent haredi rabbi in London has allegedly used his position as a marriage counselor to coerce women into having sex with him.

His headline goes a step further, apparently just to get more views.

'London Haredi Rabbi Rape And Sex Scandal?'

However, the source article in the JC never mentioned anything about having sex. It actually said:

'allegations of inappropriate behaviour towards a woman'

All the commenters who claim to be ITK (i.e. based here in Golders Greem) imply it was little more than inappropriate touching (possibly through a towel or other Hefsek).

While not free from blame, this behaviour is a world apart from the sex and/or rape referred to by Shmarya.

If he had any scruples he might own up to this misrepresentation. I doubt it, though.

Posted by: Andrew Levy | October 14, 2012 at 01:07 PM

Please.

Do you have this much difficulty with all your reading comprehension?

I had the story before the Chronicle published, genius, and I know far more about it than what the Chronicle published – and that includes forced sex acts.

Now why don't you toddle off.

Also, stick to one screen name or to your real name.

If you sockpuppet again, I'll delete everything you've posted.

I also heard the story months ago, but if u lived in london shmarya, u would dismiss it straight away, which i did, especially since the source was a well known troublemaker
Now that the entire town is talking, & the jc printed exactly what the rumours are saying, i can still say i do not beleive any of it, its some local troublemakers who want to bring down the rav
Shmarya please do not get offended & attack ypur bloggers, you have taken for a ride on this one

Even Berel Knopfler although nominally of the federation is really part of kedassia. He wont be buried in their cemeteries or eat their meat and has his own milk.
His whole kehilla are part of kedassia and just have 'taken' over a federation building.
I do not believe that out of spite or any other reason he would ever do such a think unless he thought it was really true

To shmarya.
May one ask you a question. In other blogs everyone admits they do not know the names of the women concerned. Do you.
If you answer yes it would give a whole new picture on it.

Yosef I would venture to say that I live in GG as much as you do and, unlike you, I am very familiar with the details of this case. I am usually an establishment sort of chap, and you won't find any lbd meat in my house. I'm afraid to say that Shemarya is spot on. THe therapists and rabbis that are involved in this story are far from troublemakers and are actually pillars of our community. If this scandal isn't suppressed it will rock our kehillah and you will feel ashamed of yourself for assisting the cover up.

To Dov
My same question to you.
You are familiar with the details. Do you know the names of the women concerned and are there more than one.
No one yet has admitted to knowing them.

YEs and yes. I'm not asking you to believe me, just withhold judgement.

Ok thank you.
Can you also explain if it is as Shmarya suggests something really serious and has been going on for some time especially with many women, why it has taken you and others like Alex S so long to do something about it.
Is it really possible that R Padwa should know about it and do nothing.
This is the thing that bothers many people, and therefore cannot believe you.

You won't be the first to find Rav Padwa's behaviour here hard to believe. And even he can't bring himself to repudiate the allegations.

If you are interested, send Shmarya your email and, with his permission, we can discuss this offline.

Do they need the names of the victims to start their intimidation campaign???

alex s is on the rav's side
at neilas hachag, instead of his regular 50 ppl, over 200 people from all over golders green came to give the rav chizuk!

there are no names, because there is no story, & time will tell...

If Alex S is on his side you will have a hard job proving your case.

Dont you think it sounds so absurd that so many rabbonim should know about it not just R Padwa and family and all do nothing. Is London so corrupt.
Even you dov who claim to know about it, what exactly have you done till now.
Dont you agree that it is a most terrible thing if what shmarya says it is.
I can quite understand that the women of SH will not testify against him since it doesnt put them in a good light either.
I wonder how you got it out of them.
This 'rabbi' knowing that, had nothing to fear.

London is far from the only place.

In Manchester you have people like Todras Greenhouse who has abused (underage) lodgers in his house, yet not a single one of the rabbonim in Manchester want to get involved, because he is an "upstanding rebbi" even though they have been presented with the evidance.

How are the victims supposed to cope when the community comes down against them rather than against the abuser!!!

makes me wonder why im even bothering to convert.

England seems to be worse than s'dom.
T Grynhouse's father is a also a dayan in the union, under Padwa, one cant start with them. What about his brothers former wife with her 'new' son.


[…] abused boys in camp thats why he got thrown out . he will always defend chaim as he neesd chaim to protect him

[Redacted by Siteowner]

let's not confuse issues.

at the moment nothing has been proven with reagrds and there are just rumours.

there are certain rabonim in gg who feel that they have been overruled for years and years and now finally they can crow.

frankly RSW and RBK are very choshuv talmidei chachomim but it is not that their judgement with regards to another rov.

the rumours going round are complete fabrication. there are elements that have very flimsy basis and have been exaggerated.

if this loshen hora / rechilous / motzei shem ra continue then tragedies will ch'vesholom befall us. al tiftach peh and all but lets leave this to beis din shomayim which we are all judged nowadays.



As the expression goes, Bemakom she'ein fish, hishtadel lihyos gefilte fish. Elu dorshim lishvach, ve'eilu dorshim lignay, elu ve'eilu cannot be divrei elokim Chayim, no pun intended. Since those in position to speak up, keep their silence, talks volumes in more than one way. Either way, if there is no basis to these allegations, those in charge of this public organization should have long spoken up by now, and if it is known to be credible, then again, action should have been taken. This sitting on the fence, shows weakness of the spine, where is the lo saguru mipnei ish? That's not even falcse fish, let alone gefilte fish. Talmud in Sanhedrin states, beAchriss hayomim, the fish will be a stiff, swimming belly up. This gives us a synopsis of what happens meachorei hapargud, how child molesters are protected by the ENABLERS, al achat kama vekama when it hits *home* and the chickens come home to roost, Mechape, and cover ups, and more cover ups, anywhere from the US to the UK, from CA to AU and where not, all the way to IL with some exceptions e.g., the Eida B'adatz. Me'at shnos, me'at tnumos, uvo kimhalech umchasser roshech. Ad kaan! Enough is more then enough! High time to make a 180*.
This saga was not a MIKREH, IT IS a KOL KOREH for HEEDING to the cries of the Leiby's and the Yoilys, and not sweeping them under the rug. Hashem asked, Ei Hevel achicha, and you say, lo yadati, lo shamanu, lo rainu, yadenu lo shafcha et hadam hazot..., ele vekaele and still in total denial. However, IN TRUTH, me asisa? Kol dmei achinu tzoakim, Gevald why don't you heed to our cry? IN TRUTH, aval ashemim anachnu al achinu asher rainu tzarat nafsho behitchaneno elenu velo shamanu AL KEN, AL KEN, BAAH ALENNU HATZARAH HAZOT! We have denied the victims into their face, while nebech the innocent child victim was crying, sobbing and begging, **** "OBER ES IZ AZOY GEVEIN" ****, and still "KOROSI VE'EIN ONEH", VE'EIN potze peh umtzaftzef, only to fall on deaf ears. Hayeled einenu, va'ani ana ani vo? And that is what Hashem demands from us now. ES domoy ani nidrash. It was bakoton hechel, and NOW becherposenu, Ubegadol kolo. Hence, the expression, the fish starts to stink from the head. It is high time to take matters into your hands, no more sitting beozlat yad, CHIZRU BACHEM. And NO, our children ARE NOT EXPENDABLE!!! Mi laShem elay, bau bezrat Hashem bagiborim, mend your ways, listen to the cries of our precious children, our precious neshamalech, and let the chips fall where they may. Avinu malkenu, chamol al ollelenu vetapenu!

Dovid,

You are right he is the son of Dayan Greenhouse who is part of the union. The has been serious allegations about the Dayan as well. He definitely does know what his son has been up to yet he turns a blind eye. Is this due to him having something to hide as well!!!

Does anyone know any more?

Well if that is true, although I know nothing about it, that there are allegations against the dayan himself who was in Manchester this last shabbos, to attend a simcha, R Padwa really has his hands full. On whom should he start. Why not tell us more about his ex-DIL parading with her child in Broughton park. I am quite sure he knows what his son is up to and being the main kashrus supervisor of kedassia although a very strong hashgocho, it is up to him to find kosher heterim when money is involved called hefsed mruba. His son most likely has similar heterim for what he is alleged to be doing.
I find it difficult to believe that among all the rabbonim in Manchester no one wants to get involved. Like Shneebalg FIL of our present london 'tachshit', Westheim, Berger, Goldberg,Rachov of Satmar, Knopfler brother of london one who is in involved, Horodonka,
or the seminary heads. Therefore your story is hard to believe.

If the punishment for not saying the Shema on time is the killings in Toulouse - according to the said gentleman - what's the punishment for touching up ladies?

Dovid, as I said against the Dayan have been allegations ppl are suspicious, but against Todras its 100%. Not sure what all the ex DIL has to do with it, its not the greenhouses fault she has that kid or do you know more info?

The rabbonim in Manchester including most of the above have been presented with the truth and the proof however none of them want to take it on the shoulders as who will look after the family. For now todras is running his Fast Pay company and so he can support his fam. As long is he is showering them with money.

Worst of all the horidonka who said if anyone calls the police he will get todras out in a flash (money talks)

How sad is it that Ppl don't want to get involved because they will be made to look like the bad guys by the upstanding members of the community.

I think its about time other ppl spoke out against him and others so that thsings can be set straight.

Maybe ex camper (whose comments have been edited) can give us more info on what happened at the summer camps that Todras was shockingly allowed to run (and that's after the Gibralter story, which has father did know about)

Well you said it, who will support his family if he is put inside. That sounds like a valid consideration as long as he stops doing what you accuse him of.
Which shul does he daven. Surely the people there if they know about it and believe it wont condone it. Are they all there like him.
I would say it is the Gryhaus's fault to have such kids. Do you know anyone else who has them, I dont. How he can carry on being a dayan and not being even ashamed beats me. But perhaps in London they dont know.
I have noticed in my time that rabbonim rarely do anything. But Manchester has some very find upstanding members of the kehilla, its not fair for me to mention them, who I am sure would do something. Unlike London where R Padwa is fully in control Manchester or should I say Salford is not really under the rabbi's control. A certain person there has decided that all his daughters should be divorced from their husbands and most have already done so. This couldnt happen in London.
The oldest member Mr Walter B when he was younger would have beaten the life out of him.

May I ask if this is any personal concern of yours. Do you have anything to do with him, that you come on an american blog about it. It is different when talking about a rabbi who is well known all over the world, the subject of this blog.

Dovid. Its incorrect what you say. Being a paedophile is an illness with a pattern of repeat offending and therefore how do you know he is safe (coz he says so himself, would you let your daughter/wife near him?).

His shul do sent help matters his crimes have to be exposed by rabbonim, and they should sort out his family like they would with a father who dies young (this is worse than death for the family believe me)

With regard to this son it is his fathers fault. As they say apples don't fall far from the tree, wonder if its a pattern of abuse he has seen at home as a kid

But his ex DIL don't see how that has to do with him its not his daughter, maybe it was something to do with this that he got rid of her?

The Rabbonim in Salford won't do anything, then pls advise who will?

I do have personal concern here as a good friend of mine was abused by him as an underage vulnerable girl she is still suffering from his abuse (he paid her to keep shtum). She can't come out because the Rabbonim won't help, and she thinks she is the only one. We need names or stories (maybe ex camper can help)

I am happy to talk of the blog, but as this concerns english Rabbonim and other english ppl are on here I want to continue talking about it

What's happened to you ex camper? Your post was edited are you also talking about Todras Greenhouse

I had the story before the Chronicle published, genius, and I know far more about it than what the Chronicle published – and that includes forced sex acts.

Posted by: Shmarya | October 14, 2012 at 01:15 PM

Either way, the JC's story is very different to yours. It would appear your sources differ greatly about the details of the misbehaviour.

Coming from across the pond it appears you are not familiar with the intricacies of London 'Rabbonim-politics,' the various factions and local Botei Din who really do not get in, the members of the GG Kehillah who resent the Halpern family exerting such tremendous influence. As such I would politely question the veracity and intentions of your source, who provides information that Rabbi XX coerced women into rape or sex, for all we know he has some agenda to run.

Most of my fellow GG correspondents find the image of forced sex very incongruous and unbelievable, not to mention quite puzzling logistics wise. You wouldnt know this, but he sees people in his home, above his shul. Wouldnt his wife have come across them during the act, or heard noises of a rape?

We are not Charedi apologists who do not believe any Charedi can be a sex offender- it just does not jive with Rabbi XX's image. It would be a truly mindboggling scandal.

So, in conclusion, can I ask you to provide details that your source informed you of what actually went on? I understand he/she may not want names to be supplied, but surely you can provide details?

So far I have only managed to hear unsubstantiated talk of touching through towels.

Andrew Levy / Brian
Brian is my standard username - Im not sockpuppeting

Unfortunately todros is not the only high profile pedophiles in Manchester. The rabbonim are very aware of it and have been provided with evidence. They steadfastly refuse to act. This is from first hand experience

Lonely frum , is there any way to be in contact, I may be able to help, shmarya , would you be able to help out here ?

i was not talking about todros even thoe he did run a boys camp i was talking about aclose friend of chaim halpern

ndependentjew if you have firdt hand experiance ehy won't the Rabbonim do anything? What have they said?
And are you talking about Todras or other ppl?

"You wouldnt know this, but he sees people in his home, above his shul."

Again? A chareidi "councilor" seeing persons of the opposite sex in such a private setting?

thank you brian for putting it so well, here in gg the average person does not even want to hear about it, in fact it has shown what a wonderful kehilla we live in. while in north london it is being spoken about in mikvas & shuls, in golders green people are going about their daily lives, refusing to lower themselves to idle chatter.

and in fact, this rav is an amazing marriage counsellor. all the high profile cases across london are sent to him! and unlike many frum rabbonim, he does have a way to speak to women, and has been very successful in fixing hundreds of marriages

"You wouldnt know this, but he sees people in his home, above his shul."

Again? A chareidi "councilor" seeing persons of the opposite sex in such a private setting?


Posted by: soso | October 15, 2012 at 07:02 AM

Where would you suggest women who are in the throes of a painful divorce/ bad marriage, inherently a personal and private affair, should go for confidential advice? What would be an appropriate setting in your opinion?

Brian - In London, the Jewish Marriage Council, in their offices.

Yosef - If you actually want to know the truth, as opposed to just spouting the party line, contact me offline. I promise you that after knowing what I know (most details of which I cannot reveal in a public forum), and, potentially, meeting the people who I've met, you'll change your tune.

Brian - In London, the Jewish Marriage Council, in their offices.

Posted by: Dov | October 15, 2012 at 07:21 AM


Fair enough. I concede.

i have spoken to enough ppl who are "in the know" & it seems like there is just ONE person who is running around gg talking, and he is from stamford hill

Yosef - Your ignorance would be comical were it not so tragic. I'll take that as affirming that you are not actually interested in whether it is true or not.

"I have spoken to enough ppl who are "in the know" & it seems like there is just ONE person who is running around gg talking, and he is from stamford hill

Posted by: yosef-london | October 15, 2012 at 07:51 AM"

Yosef-London, if you had to speak to someone "in the know" then clearly you yourself aren't in the know. I suspect you are a chossid of the SweepitUndertheRug-er Rebbe.

I think its the chasidic women from SH that he sees. The JMC is not made up of them. They also charge where I am sure he does it free. (no wonder with such perks!)
Now Rabbi W of 26 seems to have taken over.
I know Manchester quite well. There are many women there who could help your friend.
I mentioned the seminary heads. What about Faigy. I am sure you know who I am referring to. Her husband is a man of principle as well. It is difficult if he paid her, and she took his money, she should now go and complain. You havent told us yet which shul he attends, or perhaps you dont know. Knowing todros when he was a kid, his father the dayan let him always run wild, so I do believe you. I would even venture to say that most people left this dayan's shul for Dayan Dunner's one because of it. His shul was left with no minyan and has now been taken over by others although they have kept him on reluctantly.
Again it is very difficult to provide names on a blog like this. Are you and your friend from an older Manchester family. Dont you both have parents to help. This is not really a girls job.

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