Haredim Sue City Over Controversial Circumcision Penis Sucking Ritual

Haredim have filed a lawsuit against New York City over the city's newly required informed consent that must be signed by parents before their child can have metzitzah b'peh, the direct mouth-to-bleeding-penis suction (pictured at right) performed by many haredi and hasidic mohels after cutting off the baby's foreskin.

Metziztah b'peh performed by a Chabad mohel in Brooklyn last month

The press release, issued by the various haredi groups' spokesperson, (Rabbi) Hank Sheinkopf:

Lawsuit Filed In Federal Court To Stop Bloombergs War Against Bris Milah

New York, NY – Several Jewish organizations and three rabbis filed suit today against the New York City Department of Health (DOH) seeking an injunction against regulations that would illegally inhibit and unfairly criticize a form of circumcision that has been safely practiced by Jewish people across the world for thousands of years.

The suit argues that the DOH is attempting to discourage the practice known as metzitzah b’peh (MBP) by requiring all rabbis who perform the ritual, referred to as mohelim, to distribute a form stating that MBP can lead to serious health risks. That regulation violates both the rights to free speech and freedom of religion.

“Not only is the Department of Health wrong about metzitzah b’peh, it is trying to enforce its erroneous opinions on the people of New York City,” said Hank Sheinkopf, spokesperson for the group. “By essentially starting a public intimidation campaign that forces private citizens to spread the government’s beliefs, they are shaking the core of our democracy. We believe the courts will stop this overzealous government overreach and keep them out of our speech and religion.”

The suit argues that “the government cannot compel the transmission of messages that the speaker does not want to express—especially when the speaker is operating in an area of heightened First Amendment protection, such as a religious ritual.”

The lawsuit is supported by affidavits from experts in infectious diseases, epidemiology and statistical analysis that question the assessment and methodology of the DOH in forming its opinion about the safety of MBP.

The suit was filed in federal court in Manhattan and asks to stop the DOH from implementing its regulation. The organizational plaintiffs are the international Bris Association, Agudath Israel of America, the Central Rabbinical Congress of the United States & Canada; the mohel plaintiffs are Rabbi Samuel Blum, Rabbi Aharon Leiman and Rabbi Shloime Eichenstein.

As the suit states on the DOH’s own theory, there have been eighty-four cases of HSV reported in infants over the past five years, and 79 of those cases arose in females, uncircumcised males or males whose circumcision did not include MBP. Yet the few cases that might possibly have arisen after MBP have been the sole focus of the Department’s regulatory attention, leaving entirely unaddressed the other risks of HSV which accounts for well over 90% of reported cases. After correcting for the Department’s methodological errors, these expert affidavits demonstrated that HSV arises no more frequently after MBP than it does in newborns who did not receive MBP.

The haredi science claims are ridiculous.

Briefly, there are several factors involved in linking infant HSV-1 genital infections to metzitzah b'peh. If these factors are ruled out, then metzitzah b'peh is the source of the infection. (For example, does the mother have Herpes? If she does, barring specific evidence to the contrary, metzitzah b'peh would not be the source the of the infection.)

In the cases the non-metzitzah b'peh cases haredi press release talks about, the mothers overwhelmingly have Herpes.

The haredi lawsuit appears to be almost completely based on the opinion of a dishonest, corrupt, pathetic little man, Dr. Daniel Berman, and a ridiculous mathematical argument made by Berman's father.

Daniel Berman's claims have been rejected by the top specialists in infectious diseases.

No matter.

Haredi rabbis are now suing NYC in order to block an informed consent requirement for a procedure meant to protect health but that really risks life and health, an informed consent that is similar to the one you sign before having minor or major surgery – and sometimes even before having a tooth pulled or before having oral surgery.

And the're doing so on the basis of the lone opinion of a low level infectious disease specialist while disregarding the opinions of the top experts in the field.

This is a violation of Jewish law and it flies in the face of halakha's understanding of medical theory and practice.

And it's just one more reason why haredism really isn't the Judaism of your ancestors.

[Hat Tip: Burich.]

Comments

[A. Nuran]

So many lies in one press release. Are these guys working for the Romney campaign?

[Shmarya]

So many lies in one press release. Are these guys working for the Romney campaign?

Posted by: A. Nuran | October 11, 2012 at 12:42 PM

I don't know (although many probably support him).

But Hank Sheinkopf was in effect the Skvere Rebbe's PR man after the New Square arson-attempted murder.

[Lubavitchers are Christians]

So many lies in one press release. Are these guys working for the Romney campaign?

Posted by: A. Nuran | October 11, 2012 at 12:42 PM

Why do some people always feel the need to mix politics into this? What is your obsession with Romney?

But once we're on topic, I'm waiting for Shmarya to point out how wrong he was to believe the Obama Administration's lies that the murder of our ambassador to Libya was killed because of a video that no one has ever seen.

The State Department has all but admitted yesterday that it was a deliberate terrorist attack, that there were no protests at the embassy prior to the attack, and that security was cut to the embassy even after repeated please from the Ambassador for added security, which fell on deaf ears.

This was a huge security failure, and a huge cover up, bigger than Watergate. A US Ambassador was killed.

[Garnel Ironheart]

This won't get very far. The claim is ridiculous and any judge with common sense will say "What, you have a problem with a consent form? Go away!"

[Alter Kocker]

Once again, I challenge the Rabbis and Mohels to put their tuches offen tish. If you believe that a virus cannot be communicated from one persons mouth to another's body through fluid transfer, then allow one of the following acts to be performed on you: During any surgery allow a person in the operating room to spit into the open wound or cut yourself anywhere and allow an HIV/AIDS infected person to suck on your wound.

[Lubavitchers are Christians]

Correction:

*to believe the Obama Administration's lies that our ambassador to Libya was killed because of a video that no one has ever seen.*

My apologies.

[Shmarya]

Posted by: Lubavitchers are Christians | October 11, 2012 at 01:03 PM

Stay on topic or I'll delete your comments.

As for Bengazzi, we'll see how that works out. I will note, however, that you are as usual a liar and fraud.

That almost no one saw the video isn't the point, moron.

The point always has been that Imams made a huge deal over a video they hadn't even seen, and that did spark riots.

Process that.

[max]

hank sheinkopf is a phony rabbi he is under investigation in many corruption cases and has worked with the catholic league to fight against better laws to protect our children from sex abuse

[such hi]

Bronc bluejay health

[rebitzman]

Why do some people always feel the need to mix politics into this? What is your obsession with Romney?

He says - just before segueing into his usual Obama administration rant........

hank sheinkopf is a phony rabbi

Mr. Sheikopf is not now - has never been - nor has he ever claimed the title of rabbi.

[jancsibacsi]

The subhuman MENTALLY DISTURBED REBBES ARE AT IT AGAIN SICK AND GETTING SICKER

[Shmarya]

…Mr. Sheikopf is not now - has never been - nor has he ever claimed the title of rabbi.

Posted by: rebitzman | October 11, 2012 at 01:21 PM

That is false.

Sheinkopf recently got smicha and does claim the title. He even gave an interview about it.

Unfortunately, the smicha he got is a very dumbed-down Chabad version.

[Deremes]

Way to go.
I suppose suing the city isn't legal or what or you all feel there is a strong case against the city?
Observant Jews will fight this all the way to make sure government stays out of religion.Unless there is real proof that metzitzah b'peh kills babies.So far there is no proof that according to halacha metzitzah b'peh should be stopped.If there is proof then rabbis will stop it on their own.

[Lubavitchers are Christians]

Stay on topic or I'll delete your comments.

Posted by: Shmarya | October 11, 2012 at 01:10 PM

Sorry, Shmarya.

I thought I was precisely on topic. A. Nuran brought up Romney as an example of a liar. My response was to bring up Obama as the quintessential liar, and I used facts to back up my assertion. Unlike A. Nuran who didn't use facts.

In no way did I intend to change the topic. My apologies to you.

[Shmarya]

…Unless there is real proof that metzitzah b'peh kills babies.So far there is no proof that according to halacha metzitzah b'peh should be stopped.If there is proof then rabbis will stop it on their own.

Posted by: Deremes | October 11, 2012 at 01:28 PM

Idiot.

There is real proof supported by the top doctors in the filed and by the top epidemiologists in world.

That proof more than meets the secular bar needed and it far exceeds what halakha demands, as well.

If your rabbis were not corrupt and largely criminal, they would have banned MBP long ago – like most Litvisher rabbis of the previous several generations did.

You, N, and the rabbis you shill for are killing babies with your self absorbed narishkeit.

I hope you all rot in hell.

[jancsibacsi]

Deremes-Maybee youre mohels stay out of the babies penis di shoite how dumb can you be.

[Lubavitchers are Christians]

You, N, and the rabbis you shill for are killing babies with your self absorbed narishkeit.

Posted by: Shmarya | October 11, 2012 at 01:35 PM

Who is "N"?

[Rocky]

SR: Let's face it, MBP affects very few Jewish male babies and kills even fewer. The mohels will continue to practice their barbaric ritual whether or not New York City's informed consent requirement remains in place.

If we really wanted to improve the life of many Jewish children, we would be setting minimum secular standards for all religious schools, which are now unregulated by the state. How many thousands of Jewish youngsters leave school every year with the equivalent of a grade 3 education, as Chaim Levin did? Does Rockland County, NY have to be pushed into bankruptcy by ever growing Medicaid bills before the politicians take notice of the problem? Jews with lousy secular educations are good candidates for going on the dole.

From a health standpoint, celiac disease affects for more Jews than MBP. About 60,000 American Jews have the disease, or about 1% of the population. Most celiac carriers (about 97% according to University of Chicago statistics) don't know they have it. To a celiac carrier, the arch enemy is gluten, which is found in wheat, which is used to make matzoh and related products, which are heavily consumed by many Jews during Passover. Celiac disease can start causing damage to your body long before you start feeling lousy and start displaying symptoms of the disease. It can also trigger a lot of other diseases and cut short your life.

Current FDA regulations require allergens such as wheat to be labelled on manufactured food products. But they are not helping the 58,000 Jews who don't know they have the disease and aren't reading the labels. At a minimum, products such as gefilte fish should be reformulated to remove any wheat additives.

If the Passover season leaves your feeling lousy, but you don't know what's wrong, it may be the wheat in the matzoh. Get tested for celiac disease. Even if you test negative, eliminating wheat, rye and barley products (gluten) from your diet may still make you feel better.

[Lubavitchers are Christians]

Posted by: Rocky | October 11, 2012 at 01:49 PM

Rocky, why are you changing the topic?

[dh]

Were they also seeking a Temporary Restraining Order?

[dh]

Also, if anyone has WSC's beeper number, I know he'll want to be advised of this stat!

[Deremes]

Again with the Am Ha'aretz's.
There are many things that observant Jews did which during the times they let go of certain things becuase of different reasons.But that doesn't mean they were right in letting go not following certain halachas and minhagim.Most of the negligence came becuase they were influenced not knowingly from the maskilim and reformers of course in the name of helping Jews to survive.
Many many Litvisher gedolim do Metzitzah B'peh especial now when there is an all out war all over against bris milah in general.

Does anyone know here what NY STATE says about this whole nonsense?
Do we know how many babies from the general population died of herpes?
Can anyone explain why rabbis prefer killing babies?

[The Nudnik]

Deremes, you want "real proof"? Please read this article from Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR), a publication of the Centers for Disease Control, the world's authority on infectious disease:

Neonatal Herpes Simplex Virus Infection Following Jewish Ritual Circumcisions that Included Direct Orogenital Suction — New York City, 2000–2011

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6122a2.htm

[Shmarya]

Posted by: Deremes | October 11, 2012 at 02:05 PM

Please.

You're a lying piece of crap. You know very well that dozens of rabbis, if not hundreds of rabbis, stopped MBP in Lita, beginning in the 1800s. And they for the most part did so because they saw it killed babies.

But just like you lies about child sexual abuse, and just like you rip off the government, you lie about this.

And you think you're immune to being caught because you bloc vote.

But one day soon you'll find yourself in the back of a black SUV in handcuffs.

And that day cannot come to soon.

Rot in hell.

[jancsibacsi]

Deremes-You the perfect example of a megalomaniac you stick to youre insane position no matter what you are sick go get help the sooner the better di farshtinkene chusid

[Shoshi]

. . .Unless there is real proof that metzitzah b'peh kills babies. . .

Posted by: Deremes | October 11, 2012 at 01:28 PM

So are you proposing that a randomized, double-blind study be done, with some infected mohels and some non-infected mohels, to see how many babies will develop herpes after the bris? That doesn't sound ethical. :-)

[Deremes]

Again,IF it kills babies it SHOULD be stopped immediately.

The key to this whole Metzitzah B'peh noise is ONLY as you say:

""But just like you lies about child sexual abuse, and just like you rip off the government, you lie about this.

And you think you're immune to being caught because you bloc vote.

But one day soon you'll find yourself in the back of a black SUV in handcuffs.

And that day cannot come to soon.""

Kudos for being honest.It has nothing to do that mbp kills babies.
It has ONLY to do to tell the secular world lies about Jews who follow the torah.Making sure that non-Jews,the government,law enforcement etc that Orthodox Jews in addition to what you are being told that every bearded Jewish man should be looked upon as a child molester.Every haredi family cheats the government they all belong in prison, we are telling you now they also kill babies while sucking penises which is gross. THIS and nothing more is the whole noise making.

[Shoshi]

Question: Does anyone know if there is a custom of the FATHER performing the metzitzah b'peh (perhaps hoping to protect the baby from infected mohlim)? I attended a bris recently of the baby of a Chabadnik. I couldn't get a good view (from the women's side) of the bris process itself, but at one point I saw the father into a tissue or cloth, and wipe his mouth.

[Shoshi]

I meant to say I saw the father SPIT into a tissue or cloth, etc.

[Bas Melech]

Brainwashed charedim. The way they support mbp is the same kopf that supports SMR. No matter what the facts, they will never believe the truth.

[Shmarya]

Posted by: Deremes | October 11, 2012 at 02:42 PM

Idiot.

The FACT that you lie and your rabbis lie does not in any way contradict the FACT that MBP kills babies and it does not in any way contradict the FACT that many of us are trying to save those babies' lives.

[Subway1]

Today in NYC there was a mention of this site.

Some red headed hasidic girls were talking about incest in their own families.. A girl who was clearly not Jewish heard this and said its a well-known thing. This shocked the hasidic girls.

Then the girls asked where they could learn more and this site was mentioned. Its how I found it.

[Bob Guthrie]

Oh oh. Post about metzitzah b'peh?: 3... 2... 1...

*Deremes: "Unless there is real proof that metzitzah b'peh kills babies."/"It has ONLY to do to tell the secular world lies about Jews who follow the torah."
*Lubavitchers are Christians: "...to believe the Obama Administration's lies,..."

Ta-da!. Timely on cue enough to synchronize your watch.

Must be so nice to be free of higher brain reasoning functions. =)

[Bassy the Haredi Slayer]

It is very important issue and it is getting diluted by bringing Obama and Romney into the argument.

The way to fight the direct mouth-to-bleeding-penis suction AKA metzitzah b’peh is to go to a place like San Francisco where you need only few thousands signatures to have any proposition on the ballot, then the issue will get picked up by the media and the awareness of the American people to the issue will increase eventually there will be pressure on the federal and State level to protect Jewish babies from having their dick sucked by hairy adults

[Deremes]

Again with "saving" babies lives.Stuff like this is a good sell for folks who have no clue about frum Jews.
A person who is happy that a religious Jew should do crime so that person should be in prison can not in no way mean the well being of babies who will grow up religious.

[FirstGenerationBavarianAmerican]

I vaguely remember a case a long time ago where the government fought some religious fanatics over a health issue, and where the government won. Maybe NYC should see if that gambit still works.

[jancsibacsi]

Deremes-Face it you and youre hassidishe friends are all lowlife degenerates cant act civilized you must act like filthy savages.

[SkepticalYid]

Deremes, you really are a twisted thinker. No one is happy that a frum Jew does a crime. They are happy when any criminal including Frum criminals are convicted. It's just mind-boggling to see how you distort facts out of context to justify your sense of martyrdom and your xenophobia.

[Shmarya]

…A person who is happy that a religious Jew should do crime so that person should be in prison can not in no way mean the well being of babies who will grow up religious.

Posted by: Deremes | October 11, 2012 at 02:59 PM

Idiot.

A person who commits crimes that injure or kill children should be in prison.

And advocating for your imprisonment and the imprisonment of your rabbis in no way contradicts our concern for the lives of the babies and children you endanger or kill.

Put in simple gemara kup for you, it isn't a stira.

Ignoramus.

[Bob Guthrie]

@Deremes

...And you, bubbeh, the man with the metzitzah b'peh's Etch A Sketch brain. =)

Everytime a new MBP entry is posted on Failed Messiah, you completely erase from your mind every fact, reference, study, statistic, historical point, quote, data, scientific numbers, medical proof, valid counter-arguments, factual reasonings that have turned your arguments to mince meat in the past, and you start over, oblivious, like an Alzheimer’s patient.

...And you have to be reeducated, rebuked, proven wrong, shamed, dismissed with fact and logic, led to the truth by the hand, feeding back into your mouth the real world like a 2 year old that keeps spiting out his baby food.

Just waiting on the classics now:
*"ONE out of FIFTY THOUSAND ONLY!."
*"How many baby girls in the haredi community died of the same virus?."
*"Ha, the NYC Health dept when confronted with questions,they ignored it!."
"...The CDC...".

A very sad case of repetitive deja vu. Would be amusing if it wasn't so sad.

[Bassy the Haredi Slayer]

every bearded Jewish man should be looked upon as a child molester.

If he lives in Wiliamsburg or Seagate

Every haredi family cheats the government

If they live in Kiryat Yoel (the only town in the States named after a dog)

[Bob Guthrie]

Posted by: Deremes
"Again with "saving" babies lives."

Wow. Just wow.

[The Nudnik]

Deremes,

In Sanhedrin, it says that a Beit Din which kills once in seven years (some opinions once in seventy years) is considered bloody.

Using that line of thinking, one baby placed at risk by MBP is not acceptable.

[Deremes]

SkepticalYid,i know exactly what im saying.And you know full well what the purpose is.It is that Orthodoxy should diminish fade away kapot all the way.Those who want it so will do whatever it takes.
If a father goes to prison,hopefully that family will fall apart and kids will go otd.
The more Jews do crime the dream and desire of the haters come true.In any case the issue here is MBP and the city of NY is being sued.

[SkepticalYid]

You just proved my point again. And you can't even see it.

[Chazal Qaeda]

The real kiddush Hashem here would have been the haredim taking this to beis din...

[Deremes]

The Nudnik, big talmid chacham im impressed with your medameh milsah l'milsah.

Bassy the Haredi Slayer,
I have a feeling that you put on tefilin and daven three times a days,am i correct yes or no?

[The Nudnik]

Deremes,

I make no claims to being any kind of talmid chacham. Merely a Jew concerned about the welfare of Jewish children.

If you think I have misapplied the Gemara, explain. Your failure to respond to the substance says to me that you have no answer.

[Shoshi]

It appears they have explanations for the infections that have been reported in newborns:

http://www.yated.com/new-evidence-shatters-myth-about-metzitzah-b-39-peh.0-707-0.html

[jancsibacsi]

Deremes-The more Jews do crime the dream and desire of the haters come true
You imbacile so go tell them not to do crime every utternce here makes you stupider how low can you go robot that you are .

[Shmarya]

Posted by: Shoshi | October 11, 2012 at 04:04 PM

Please.

The first 'explanation' is only possible if the baby's toddler brother sucked the baby's penis sometime during the first seven days of the baby's life.

The second explanation is almost certainly a lie, and even if it isn't, the common way HSV-1 is transmitted from mother to baby infects the baby's eyes or mouth, and sometimes skin of the chest, etc. It rarely never infects a baby boy's genitals.

So then it's 10 reported cases in 11 years, not 11 reported cases in 11 years.

It's fine to link to articles like that, but it isn't fine to do it when you certainly know that the 'explanations' are BS, unless you also note that.

[seymour]

deremes,

bringing proof that MP can kill is like bringing proof to people who think we never went to the moon.

no amount of proof will be enough.

[Jeff]

It has ONLY to do to tell the secular world lies about Jews who follow the torah.

You don't follow the Torah. You follow narrishkeit made up by your heilige rebbaim to keep themselves in power. You're a pathetic, brainwashed fool - and Shmarya is right; any Jew who performs MBP or has it performed belongs in prison. Hopefully, a few of you will end up there, the rest of you will riot and the world will finally see you for what you truly are - lunatics and parasites. Then, perhaps, the free ride will finally be over.

[The Nudnik]

This reminds me of how many of the same people approach the issue of child molestation in the Orthodox community.

Same pattern of denial.

The only difference is that there are many more victims of molestation than of MBP.

[seymour]

This reminds me of how many of the same people approach the issue of child molestation in the Orthodox community.

Same pattern of denial.

The only difference is that there are many more victims of molestation than of MBP.

Posted by: The Nudnik | October 11, 2012 at 04:44 PM

yep their claim was how many are being arrested/

the same here

both are under-reported and then they use that as evidence that is does not happen

[Shoshi]

It's fine to link to articles like that, but it isn't fine to do it when you certainly know that the 'explanations' are BS, unless you also note that.

Posted by: Shmarya | October 11, 2012 at 04:19 PM

Sorry, Shmarya. Sometimes my humor is too dry.

However, I did wonder about the chances of transmitting herpes from mouth to hand to genitals, as described by the mother. I looked it up and found that such a means of transmission is possible. I do not actually think it is more likely than the idea of it being the result of an infected mohel, since even if she changed the dressing with that "finger" and "wasn't told" to wash her hands first, she surely didn't put her finger onto the wound itself.

And I think it's a tragedy that this poor mother is being allowed to blame herself, so it would be good for the doctors to address this idea directly.

[dh]

Deremes, you are steadfast that because you believe in something it is therefore true. You process on a very surface level - more of a deficit than being shallow. For you, there is a misty paucity of reasoning. Because you cannot comprehend, you automatically reject. You are no more human than a robot. The world for you is limited to only your own base simple lack of evolution. And you will no more understand this than anything else. You are a wind up toy.

[shoshy]

They claim to have affidavits by "experts" (plural). I wonder if they got anyone besides Berman. And Berman Jr.

[The Nudnik]

Shoshy,

Even if they have ten Bermans, the City has the CDC (see link above; Shmarya originally posted it some time ago). Plus the professional association of infectious disease doctors; Shmarya posted that as well.

[S M L]

From a health standpoint, celiac disease affects for more Jews than MBP. About 60,000 American Jews have the disease, or about 1% of the population. Most celiac carriers (about 97% according to University of Chicago statistics) don't know they have it. To a celiac carrier, the arch enemy is gluten, which is found in wheat, which is used to make matzoh and related products, which are heavily consumed by many Jews

This is perhaps something worth discussing in another post. The prevalence of CD among Jews is higher than in a mixed population; among Haredim who are relatively inbred - who knows? I wonder (as a physician and a sufferer from CD) what sort of care Haredi kids get, whether their physicians (ie: the ones they prefer to use) are as up on this as they might be, etc. I also wonder how much of what they eat is accurately labeled and, if said to be gluten-free, really can be relied upon to be so.

[(The other) shoshy]

Shoshi, now I'm not saying the Yated is lying. But there are a couple of things fishy about their coverage of the baby's families:

The first baby they say got herpes from the brother sucking on the pacifier. When the city came out and directly challenged that story, saying it wouldn't result in sores in his genital region, suddenly there was this convoluted story about the mother sucking her finger in the other case.

They seem to be the only media outlet, Jewish or otherwise, with access to these families. In fact it's only one reporter who has spoken to them.

They only interview mothers of the babies who have died, not the others who have contracted the deadly disease.

Oh, and one more thing. They have no journalistic standards.

[shoshy]

According to the Yated, a few weeks ago they held a pro-MBP asifa in Boropark.

http://www.yated.com/asifa-challenges-bris-milah-amendment.7-751-0.html

The best news in the article?
"Some heimishe people are now considering foregoing mbp"

[Korben Dallas]

Nobody is ever going to convince the Haredim of anything. They're little more than a cult at this point, and I'm pretty sure it's an aveirah to daven with pigs. We have to get rid of these black hatted mother fuckers at any cost or the Jewish people will never know peace. Send them all to the west bank where they can plot the destruction of Israel together with their Arab brethren.

[spacedout BT]

MBP is on the same level as the sexual "takanos" of Chasidei Ger. What started as the practice of some families was seized upon by others seeking to acquire "ehrlichkeit" and later became the established norms of the community and no one could conceive otherwise. Where in halacha does it mandate an outside "Komandant" to interfere with the intimate relations of a husband and wife???????

[WoolSilkCotton]

DH, I'm in Washington DC for a medical conference. I was at the Holocaust Museum yesterday.
Was at lectures all day today, so I missed being able to say:

HASIDIC PENIS SUCKING RITUAL

HASIDIC PENIS SUCKING RITUAL

HASIDIC PENIS SUCKING RITUAL

[The Anti-Schmendrick]

It is NOT a penis sucking RITUAL. At most, it is a penis sucking TECHNIQUE. Penis sucking is not a phrase that belongs on a supposed news blog like this.

By the way, I support the disclosure form as it protects the right to use the technique.

[David]

Doing a bris is a reasonable procedure and should be legally protected religious practise.

MBP is halachically unnecessary, based on medieval medical practise which is now known to be invalid and is undignified and, to modern eyes, inappropriate.

The frumma are so disconnected from reality and modern thinking (including modern halachic thinking) that they have no idea what is wrong with it.

How can anyone, in good conscience, go to an open public court and attempt to defend this?

In doing so, they are invalidating the whole of the bris as the barbaric MBP will be seen as an intrinsic part of bris milah thus making the whole procedure much less defensible in the future.

[dh]

Yes, of course you're right Schmend. There is a technique to penis sucking.

[Wigmore]

Shmarya,

Do you by any chance have a copy of the complaint filed in this case?

[Shmarya]

It wasn't in the court system when I last checked at 4 pm eastern.

I'll look again soon.

[Alter Kocker]

There is a solution for all of this; Infect all Haredim with Herpes Simplex. The adults won't mind a cold sore or two. However, within a generation, there should be no more Haredim. Therefore, no more MBP.

[Reader]

Its case number 12 CV 7590, and the complaint is on the PACER web site.

[John Haman]

What is most amazing about the whole attitude of hariedem regarding this issue and other issues is as follows.
Deremes and the like minded robots. If the godol hador or your rebbe, like satmer or r kanievsky etc were to post on this site under annon and make the halchic as well as moral argument that MBP is assur and everyone should stop doing it, you would instantly argue with the post, defending every single argument that the rabbi would make. And you would prob call him a self hating jew and antisemite and promise to keep doing this mitzva forever! You as well as everyone else here knows you never processed any of the arguments shmarya or any posters made against MBP, so the same rabbi who would post annon on this site against MBP you would attack his view,

But if this rabbi made the same psak and argument against mbp, except he did it in the yated or in a shul drasha it instantly becomes daas torah moishe misinia. You and all your drone buddies dont ever think for yourself not in halacha or moral terms everything you do in life as well as everything you eat drink sleep or crap is based on what you think your rabbi wants, not what Gd wants. You know that is a fact and it is a sad one. To recap you are not defending MBP!! you are defending anything that you percieve as going against your heilege gedoilem..Wake up!!! your being had. Dont get me wrong on a lot of the issues the rabbis have sincere intentions but when they need to make a political stand you are the sheep they sacrifice for thier power and koved!!!

[Rocky]

Lubavichers are Christians Said:

"Rocky, why are you changing the topic?"

Because MBP has been covered many times and the people who would benefit from learning about the problems it might cause have no interest in doing so. Fortunately, MBP only harms a very small number of baby boys. Short of the state removing baby boys from their frum parents at birth, I really don't know how this problem can be solved.

The education issues I raised hurt lots of Jewish children every year. Celiac disease harms thousands of Jews and matzoh made from wheat four and water plays an essential role in Jewish ritual every year. The education issue has not received a lot of coverage. The celiac issue has never been raised from a Jewish perspective that I know of. I am suggesting that it should be if you are interested in saving Jewish lives. Even frum people get celiac. Many undoubtedly live with it their entire lives and die early deaths at least it part due to this disease.

[Abe]

Im fully aware of the differences between newborns and adults, the first cant make their own decisions of importance, and the second can. Understood.

How many here are against homosexual activity known to cause AIDS, even if this behavior is initiated by adults who choose this activity for themselves.

Whichever way you look at it, homosexual activity causes sickness that costs our government lots of valuable resources that would be better spent on poor helpless people who had NO part in choosing their sorry lot, unlike homosexuals.

[Shmarya]

Posted by: Abe | October 18, 2012 at 10:14 AM

Please.

What if the answer to your question was zero?

Would that change the fact that MBP kills and maims babies?

No, it would not.

So your point is ridiculous.

Past that, homosexuality does not cause HIV AIDS. HIV AIDS is a virus transmitted through various ways, the most common of which are heroin addicts sharing needles, blood transfusions, and unprotected anal sex.

There are plenty of heterosexual men and women who have HIV AIDS.

[Abe]

I agree with most of what you say, but

Do you have the stats showing that the rate of heterosexual individuals with AIDS and resulting sexual transmission of AIDS comes anywhere close to the rate of homosexual individuals with AIDS and resulting sexual transmission of AIDS?

Perhaps we ought to end non-MBP Brissim as well (and everything else we do on a daily basis with some risk), because there is a miniscule chance of resulting health issues. Why stop at MBP Brissim?

[Shmarya]

Posted by: Abe | October 18, 2012 at 11:17 AM

Do you fall out of bed this stupid every morning or do you have to work on it a bit?

You think you can get away with trolling and with playing these games?

You can't.

Babies can't consent.

The state has a special responsibility under law to guard the welfare of infants, children and vulnerable adults.

That responsibility legally trumps parents' religious rites and their religious theology.

MBP maims babies. MBP kills babies.

The state has the obligation to, at bare minimum, warn parents about that.

And that is exactly what the state – in this case, NYC – is doing.

Rot.

[Abe]

Im on your side with parental consent. All the way, actually!!!

Now that were past that, can you answer the below question in some form, without smoke coming out of your nostrils and avoiding the question completely?

In response to your previous statement, do you have the stats showing that the rate of heterosexual individuals with AIDS and resulting sexual transmission of AIDS comes anywhere close to the rate of homosexual individuals with AIDS and resulting sexual transmission of AIDS?

Perhaps we ought to end non-MBP Brissim as well (and everything else we do on a daily basis with some risk), because there is a miniscule chance of resulting health issues. Why stop at MBP Brissim?

[Shmarya]

Posted by: Abe | October 19, 2012 at 12:02 AM

Stop trolling you lying cretinous lump.

You think you're smart and clever, but you're just very dull haredi troll.

A normal adult with normal or above intelligence who is honest and literate realizes that the transmission comes from unprotected sex – especially unprotected anal sex because of tiny, almost microscopic tears in the lining of the rectum.

Pats that, again, your attempt at a comparison is idiotic and illogical.

And your trolling days here just ended.

Rot.

[Account Deleted]

Wow, It might be surprising to know that Yeshiva bochurim in Midwood are still speaking about metzitzah b’peh at their Shiurim. A few weeks ago I was told there was a Rabbi giving a special shiur using Rabbi Nachman of Breslov's teachings to clarify the apparent connection between the metzitzah b’peh, hurricane Sandy, gay marriages, Yishmael, Amalek the Erev Rav and the war in Israel.
Apparently in an attempt to revive the Haskala movement, Mayor Bloomberg and his friends the erev rav have brought hurricane Sandy upon us all as a punishment for legalizing gay marriages and not allowing yiddishkeit to perform the the bris and MBP, allowing Amalek and Ishmael to triumph over the Jews and Israel. The Arabs have control over the world's oil, gas and money because they are circumcised properly in accordance with their ancestor Yismael who represents the sitra achra of the Sefirot of Chesed, corresponding to Avraham who also performed the bris mila properly with MBP which enabled him to overcome Yishmael his spiritual opposite.

It was a funny incidental chat on the street with my friend's twenty year old, yeshivish younger brother. I had no idea about this sucking ritual back then so now it all makes sense, lol.

[Account Deleted]

Something was also said in regards to Obama being half Yismael and Edom but can't remember the rest of the prophesy.