Video: Haredi Tresspassing At East Ramapo School Draws Police But No Arrests

Haredim used the elementary school's grounds as a short cut, drawing the ire of some parents and school officials who say they are worried about the safety of the children. Parents noted that 20 registered sex offenders live within two miles of the school.

Originally published at11:00 pm CDT 10-2-2012

Haredim and the parents of the kids in East Ramapo's public schools have been fighting over resources and management of the public schools for several years.

Interestingly, the man in the following video who accuses the parent in the blue shirt of "antisemitism" looks a whole lot like Daniel B. Schwartz, the school board's Orthodox president.

 

The Journal News report.

[Hat Tips: Devorah, Paul.]

Comments

[Doubtful]

On one hand, the shul goers should NOT be cutting through school property...

On the other, this whole incident was blown up to draw attention to the East Ramapo vs Chareidi Community rift...note how the lady under the umbrella added: "We no longer have an assistant principal.."

Also - There are NOT 20 offenders within 2 miles of the school...pulleeze...!

[David]

Trespass? That's a goyishe concept.... Charedim can go where they want, when they want.

[monsey]

here is Video of clashing at the school: http://youtu.be/zbM4vnKdd8o

[No_Light]

Also - There are NOT 20 offenders within 2 miles of the school...pulleeze...!

You're so right!

There's probably fifty or so, given the whole disgusting Haredi habit of screaming "Omerta!" oh wait, sorry, "Mesira!" when someone even thinks of trying to take action against a rapist or child molester.

Then there are the sweetheart deals given to those frumbags who do get reported. You know, where rabbonim tell the police that they'll "Take care of it", and that adding a frumbag to the register would "Harm the victims".

So yeah doubtful, you're right to question that figure, because in reality, it's almost certainly much higher.

[ruthie]

ok...
it's not the worst thing in the world for the religious to cut across grandview to get to shul or a succah meal. it's not.
but there are children in that school.
their safety is paramount.
during school hours they must be kept safe.
no one should be walking on grandview property while school is in session. FULL STOP
and even if there is one idiot in the bunch and all the rest are the most wonderful frum people....doesn't matter. the children come first.
use grandview short cuts when school is NOT in session.
or are the kids of lesser value because they're not jewish or even omg black children?
in that case, fuck off

[Rochel]

If you listen to the dialog of the haredim with the school personal in the beginning of the video, you can see how bullying the haredim were to the school personal. What jerks.

[Yoel Mechanic]

Is there a No Trespassing While School in Session Sign clearly posted?

[Yoel Mechanic]

addendum: what are the rules in general for public elementary schools? And is this an on going problem or did this just suddenly come up?

[shoshy]

Yoel, it shouldn't matter whether there is a sign up or not, anyone should understand that it's tresspassing. If a yeshiva doesn't have a sign up, is it okay for churchgoers to cut through their grounds on Sundays?

shmarya, I really don't think that's Daniel Schwartz, and maybe you should verify before suggesting that it is.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Maybe the chareidim should stop in at the school while they're at it. Given the dismal state of chareidi education, they'd learn something.

[Rare View]

I live in the area, and we have been taking the short cut for 25 years, I pay $8,500.00 a year in school taxes, and that's my only benefit.

[seymour]

another fine example of the arrogant behaviour of some yiddin. I say some, since the lady did say many where very nice and turned around.

Public property is a none starter, in parks in NYC an adult cannot go in the area that is designated for children. can an adult go there and claim public property? No. That is common sense.

since I assume we are talking about trespassing during school hours the school has every right and obligation to limit access.

stop with the cry of antisemitism when you act like idiots and get a response. or when you commit crimes and get caught SMR.

it is very dangerous since when there will be a real case of antisemitism no one will listen.

[Barry]

It seems somewhat inappropriate to carry a phallic symbol such as a lulav through the grounds of an elementary school even when enclosed in a giant plastic 'condom'.

[shoshy]

Rare View,
The district has been turning a blind eye to your community's trespassing for 25 years or more. That doesn't mean your tax dollars are earning you that "benefit". Plenty of Orthodox Jews pay tax money for public schools that they don't use. That doesn't give them the right to walk on school property whenever they please.

On the other hand, it this was indeed the status quo for decades, perhaps the school should have done more to address it before having these confrontations on Yom Tov? Rare View, was there any discussion with the Orthodox community about this shortcut in the past?

[jancsibacsi]

Barry-Hahaha funny i always thought that the payes is the phallic symbol dangling on 2 sides dont you agree with me?:)

[seymour]

Posted by: Doubtful | October 02, 2012 at 11:17 PM

what is the zip i will do a search

[seymour]

Posted by: Rare View | October 03, 2012 at 07:42 AM

I live in NYC and pay my taxes I am not handicap, but some of my taxes goes to pay for services for the handicap.

therefore, i am entitled to seat in a handicap seat on the buses or park in a handicap zone.

same argument

[Korbendallas72]

Haredim do not need to respect you. They are as gods, blessing the Earth itself just by striding upon it. By not bowing to the Haredim, you are like a Nazi.

Why do they act like this? Because their filthy fucking leaders program them to. They are a cancer... and Hashem has a solution for dealing with these pigs.

[flat earth]

This is going to get good when someone gets pepper sprayed.

[Alter Kocker]

Put up a fence on the school property and send the bill to the shul these fucktards attend.

[flat earth]

And what did the police do?

[split]

Same crap everywhere thy show up ,...

[Barry]

Jancsibacsi, according to the book 'Magic of the Ordinary: Recovering the Shamanic in Judaism' by Gershon Winkler, Rabbi Yitzhak Luria of Safed taught that the lulav represents the phallus, the succah represents the womb and the waving of the lulav in the Succah represents consummation. Apparently the Jerusalem Talmud hints to that as well.

It is also generally accepted by anthropologists that the etrog represents the woman's breast. That is why it is important to have the pitom intact as it represents the nipple.

I always have a good laugh when I see photos of Jerusalem Hassidim with jeweler's eyeglasses examining etrogim for defects. It reminds me of this:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtjxU8P8XG8

[rebitzman]

On one hand, the shul goers should NOT be cutting through school property...

Our shul has a middle school on one side (directly), a high school (a block away) on the other and a community center and scateboard park across the street. When there is no conflict of events, we use their lots during holidays - they use our lot for school events and everyone cuts through everyone else's lots.

Unless they are littering or harassing the kids..........I don't see the problem.

[howard g]

this guy keith meyers is a sex offender as stated on eram web site itself whats he doing there http://www.eram.k12.ny.us/education/components/whatsnew/default.php?sectiondetailid=48230&showDetails=show

[Michael]

I was a guest there yesterday. It was pouring and as we came home from shul we wanted walk along the path which is always used by any passerbys. The school officials and their security were the only ones out there to stop people from walking because they hate the orthodox jews who are not letting them get away with wasting school funds for a diminished elementry school.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Rbbitzman: Where there are good neighborly relations, such a symbiosis is possible. "Michael" is an example of why that isn't possible there-- the disdainful attitude of chareidi Jews to all others.

[flat earth]

Try walking on school property at most "normal" school districts. You will certainly be escorted off the property.

We need a fence between Clarkstown and Ramapo.

[Rare View]

Shoshy:
The school never had any discussions in 25 years about using the short cut, and it is interesting to note, that when there is PTA, the parents of that public school use YSV's parking lot without permission or warning, causing major traffic jams....we never said a word...
Now ill tell you the real issue.... Grandview is on the chopping block because the school is practicall empty of students....the school student population in East Ramapo is rapidly declining, an the taxes are going up, and even the non yreshiva parents are now fed up with the taxes... the "parents" out there are feeling the pressure and want the empty school in the news so that the building won't be sold...The building should be sold and the grounds used for a large short cut and a park for the overtaxed citizens of Monsey

[Yochanan Lavie]

Barry: That book sounds interesting. I am a rationalist, but I am interested in the non-rational origins of religions, too. May I also suggest books by Howard Eilberg-Schwartz, who has an anthropological approach to religion, too.

[Dovit]

They should play tit for tat and let the kid have recess on their shul grounds.Then accuse them of anti=-semitism if they complain.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Who is this Auntie Semite anyhow, and what does she have against us? Is she like Auntie Em?

[ruthie]

rare view,
the building should be sold!!
and what about the children still there?
they need an education.
the only reason the buildings and education are being neglected is
because the frumma don't care about the kids in the public schools.
what a shame.
really sad. every child is precious.
and don't give me let's lump them together in another building!!!
grandview was a wonderful school just 8 years ago.
it is the fault of the orthodox jews. they don't care. full stop

[Sarek]

I agree with Rare View. School grounds are paid for with public funds. I used to take short cuts all the time through the school fields, until new housing surrounding the school cut off the outlet at the far side. I am unaware of any laws that state the public can't go on school grounds, whether during school hours or not.

[ruthie]

I was a guest there yesterday. It was pouring and as we came home from shul we wanted walk along the path which is always used by any passerbys. The school officials and their security were the only ones out there to stop people from walking because they hate the orthodox jews who are not letting them get away with wasting school funds for a diminished elementry school.

Posted by: Michael | October 03, 2012 at 09:41 AM

wow michael, and someone invited YOU!!! get the fuck out of monsey. we really don't need more of your kind here.
better yet, stick your head in the toilet, flush and you'll be doing the world a favor.
wasting school funds for a dimisnished elementry school...omg wow...you don't know what you're saying and btw fuck your hosts too.

[jewishwhistleblower]

The parent in the blue shirt according to news reports is Keith Meyers.
Can anyone confirm whether it is the same Keith Meyers listed on this website http://www.eram.k12.ny.us/education/components/whatsnew/default.php?sectiondetailid=48230&showDetails=show ?
There is an apparent physical similarity but the video does not give a clear image of his face, so I cannot make a determination. It may simply be a similar name and appearance.

This is a different issue than the tresspassing which is unacceptable.

[jewishwhistleblower]

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/lohud/access/1730730811.html?FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=May+31%2C+2007&author=James+Walsh&pub=The+Journal+News&desc=Court+dismisses+sex+offender%27s+lawsuit+against+Ramapo&pqatl=google
...
Court dismisses sex offender's lawsuit against Ramapo
The Journal News - White Plains, N.Y.
Author: James Walsh
Date: May 31, 2007
Start Page: A.3
Section: NEWS
Text Word Count: 525
Abstract (Document Summary)

Keith Meyers charged in court documents that Police Officer Carl Trojan had "acted in bad faith when disclosing that (Meyers) was a registered sex offender" and caused Meyers "great humiliation, shame, embarrassment, emotional and psychological distress and mental anguish."
...

[shoshy]

I think it's pretty clear, that once the school custodian or security personnel say to leave, that you are trespassing and you have to leave, even if no signs were up. Here is a link to the appropriate NYS law:

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/nycode/PEN/THREE/I/140/140.10

I understand that this had been the status quo for years and it does seem like a group of parent activists were trying to provoke a confrontation that the Orthodox community were unprepared for. However, the reactions that have been seen on the video are rude, arrogant, and disgraceful. There is no way this is not a chilul Hashem. Better to walk 20 minutes out of your way in the rain than to demonstrate such callous disregard for the objections of the public school. I'm aware of the politics in the school district. If they use your parking lot you can tow them. You cannot just keep marching through after school personnel have told you to leave.

[Devorah]

"The school officials and their security were the only ones out there to stop people from walking because they hate the orthodox jews who are not letting them get away with wasting school funds for a diminished elementry school."

Wasting school funds like having the Chasidic board ship thousands of dollars worth of textbooks to Brooklyn Yeshivas? Or paying $97k per special ed student in Kiryas Joel to a chasid agency not approved by the state and without any competitive bids? The tax payers don't hate the chasids, but they do hate the fraud and embezzlement you accomplish daily.

[Pearl of Wisdom]

I suggest that the people who believe our schools are half empty make an appt. with the Principals and take a tour and see for yourself. Our kids are crammed into classrooms like sardines, the disabled kids have to take their therapy lessons on the stage in some schools, like they are on display...disgusting. In RHS...they had to put a green line down the hallway floors because there is such overcrowding that the kids cannot get from one classroom to the other. I know that the Rabbi's like to tell you otherwise, but the enrollment is going up by a couple hundred due the the high reproduction rates of the Latino population...almost as high as the Orthodox birthrates!

This is America and nobody is above the law. The problem has increased over the past few years and some, not all, have become very obstanent and won't leave when asked. At RHS, our kids are running track and people deside to take a stroll. Our coward Supt/Board has tried to ignore the problem that was presented to them by the NAACP and PTA. Since they were unresponsive to the public, the public stepped in to help with the permission of the Principal. There could be deal struck if both sides could sit down. I hope that happens. It doesn't have to be war, but if that is the only way, so be it. In the end, we all want what is best for our kids....right? For the record, there are hotheads on all sides. :)

[yehudis]

The words anti-semite mean less and less in Ramapo. It is over used and that is the result. I think it is wrong to take a shortcut through a school when it is in session. I wonder if they would sue the school district if they slipped and fell. It is also wrong when people take shortcuts through other people's property without asking for permission. That goes on alot in Ramapo, too.

[-.-]

I used that shortcut for 10 years and never understood why we were shouted at by the teachers at the school for using it when it was in session.

Yet after having had switched into the public school system it makes far mores sense. It does not matter who they are, or what they are doing there, it is illegal for them to be there during school hours because it poses a danger to the children, especially because they are elementary school students.

Any religion or background it does not matter, they don't know you, you are not there to pick up your kid, so it is considered trespassing during school hours. You can pay all the taxes in the world for a public bathroom but if you are a man you don't go into women's room.

This is not a new problem, it has been going on for years and the schools don't have funding to provide security to prevent the trespassing. It does not matter the schools state on the chopping block or if they use YSV's parking lot from time to time (YSV uses their parking lot all the time anyways, and their traffic jams are legendary)

When the school is in session and an individual has no reason to be there it is illegal to be there. Though sadly most people don't know this to be the law and just think it is antisemitism that they are turned away

[ruthie]

- -
.

well said

[Yoel Mechanic]

> If a yeshiva doesn't have a sign up, is it okay for churchgoers to cut through their grounds on Sundays?
=======================================
If the Yeshiva was a public institution on public property, and no sign was posted, I would certainly understand if someone strolled across an open lawn until notified otherwise. I really don't know what the actual regulations are for this, but I would certainly could see how a pedestrian would honestly think they weren't doing anything wrong. I am not in favor of making a big deal out of someone doing it. The issue takes a different turn once someone is notified "Hey, it isn't cool cutting across here". I would hope that civility would rule. Good neighborliness is an obvious Torah value.

I suspect this is really a minor issue, and there is probably some substantive issue lurking behind this trivial issue. But that is just my uninformed suspicion.

Now, I *am* concerned about the unnecessary name calling: there is plenty of that going around.

[Michael from Lakewood]

I don't get why "when school is in session" matters. I treat the property that serves the mission of education like the temple that it is. I don't enter said property unless I have business there.

Are children in after school programs, sports, etc. more safe & secure with strangers allowed in close proximity to them?

[ruthie]

sadly,
this is a topic of safety for children first.
the way it's being played out though is BECAUSE of the way the jewish people in monsey, spring valley, airmont, wesley hills, pomona, and new square act.
they (and i'm talking about the hasidim not the normal orthodox) act and they probably do own the place and the politicians.
if i weren't jewish, i would hate the community that doesn't acknowledge their presence, never says please or thank you to anyone not jewish here, and has taken away a stellar education program in east ramapo because they're "goyim." terrible.
for those that don't live in monsey, rest assured the hasidim have the politicians in their pockets. and the politicians have albany in their pockets. 1+1=block voting.

[Yochanan Lavie]

In addition to being rude and possibly illegal, a bunch of strangely garbed men carrying phallic objects will be distracting and disruptive for the children. And the younger generation has a short attention span, due to many factors. Would the chareidim like a Palm Sunday procession just outside the windows of their cheder when the rebbe is teaching chumash?

[shoshy]

"The issue takes a different turn once someone is notified "Hey, it isn't cool cutting across here". I would hope that civility would rule. Good neighborliness is an obvious Torah value."

Yoel, I agree with you wholeheartedly on that. I think there was room for ambiguity about whether or not the shulgoers had reason to believe what they were doing was okay. But once the parents and security people came out and said, "You're trespassing", they were wrong to react the ways that we've seen in the video: "What should we do?" (i.e. this is your problem) "We'll be back next week" (i.e. F*** you) "You're an antisemite", or just forging on ahead, pretending the person doesn't exist. Have they no better sense about how to act in public, especially with the Youtube cameras rolling?

[Devorah]

The frumma school board cut security staff down to almost no dollars so that they could siphon off gelt for their yeshivas. Security problems are real in East Ramapo and the Principal had called in parents to help guard the school. What would a parent do if she saw a hasid rubbing up against a young boy in the playground? Signs are posted all over the schools against trespassing. Most residents adhere to school policy---frumma adhere to "This law is for goyim and I don't follow goyish laws."

[flat earth]

When they come back next week, nail them in the face with pepper spray. Post the video please.

[Devorah]

Is pepper spray Kosher?

[flat earth]

If its not, a stun gun will do.

[ruthie]

grandview is an excellent school.
even if they, in their hearts, wanted to let the jewish people walk by...
i know for a fact....it was done solely for the safety of the children. to grandview...this is paramount.
what it looks like is just a reminder that the hasidim don't care like devorah stated above.
the nonjews in grandview do not dislike the jews. they dislike how they are treated by the jews and that rustles their sensibilities and confuses them whether to like us or not.

[joe]

BRILLIANT tactical move! It proves, in the eyes or their antagonists, that the Orthodox aren't even entitled to usage -- if only to walk through. This, despite their paying taxes.

Chillul Hashem shouldn’t be confused with being assertive. Galus or not, frum families, as tax payers, are – to use an imprecise analogy – also part “owners” of that school lot. They have a right to use it if only for a few seconds as a short-cut.

Are they being disruptive? Are they attempting to “convert” anybody to a religious way of life? Are they doing this EVERY DAY? These are isolated incidents.

Common sense dictates “cultural sensitivity” just as those oh-so-enlightened educators would show others.

Those wonderful altruistic volunteers -- and their school handlers -- imply that there may be molesters among those walking-thru. Do they actually believe that Jews in distinctive dress are going to attempt something? And in the rain, natch --- when the kiddies will be indoors? What an absolutely idiotic argument.

Having adult or even teen strangers hanging around a school yard is asking for trouble. But even those objecting admit that the Orthodox are merely passing through.
Reply »

[Shmarya]

Posted by: joe | October 05, 2012 at 09:57 AM

Please.

Can you walk in a part at midnight if the city says you can't?

After all, you pay taxes. You have the "right," don't you?

No you don't.

Can you walk through the halls and operating rooms of a publicly funded hospital just because you pay taxes?

No, you can't. Your entry, when and where you can or cannot enter and where you can and cannot go is controlled.

Can you walk into a fire station and go upstairs to the sleeping quarters just because you pay taxes?

What about walking into police headquarters and entering offices and training rooms?

You are an idiot.

[Devorah]

"Do they actually believe that Jews in distinctive dress are going to attempt something? And in the rain, natch --- when the kiddies will be indoors?

I believe if given the opportunity, a child molester would fondle a kid playing outdoors on the playground. Distinctive dress? Has sexual abuse happened in Shuls, mikvas and Rabbis' homes? And it's not always raining in Grandview!

[joe]

there a culture in rural areas of folks
taking short cuts.

It was RAINING. There were no kids playing outside.

This was only being done to show who's boss.

The school knows if it was debated at the school board meeting,
blocking the Jews would stop immediately.

[devorah]

Joe, they take this short cut EVERY time they walk to Shul and it's NOT always raining! It happened to be raining the day they were caught. You're turning this into a "Jewish" block--it's a trespassing block. Learn the difference and start by studying science that other weather exists, like sunny, clear and warm.

Science 101--on clear days the kids are on the playground and the authorities do not allow ANYONE on school property except authorized individuals.

[Babs]

i can't digest the cult like mentality. They look like penguins and they act like them too; just follow the leader and you will be saved. Every penguin has their day.

[MIE]

http://www.lohud.com/article/20121006/NEWS03/310060055/Parent-East-Ramapo-school-patrol-sex-convict

[Yoel Mechanic]

>And the younger generation has a short attention span, due to many factors.

YL: what are the many factors that are related to the short attention span of the younger generation? Is this something new? Please be as detailed as possible. (I know this is tangential to the main purpose of this thread, but it is an interesting issue)

[Rare View]

East Ramapo Parent that complained about frum people using the public school as a shortcut is a SEX OFFENDER!
http://dusiznies.blogspot.com/2012/10/east-ramapo-parent-that-complained.html

[MO]

NYS Law allows any citizen to walk unto public school property during school hours.

[Shmarya]

NYS Law allows any citizen to walk unto public school property during school hours.

Posted by: MO | October 07, 2012 at 05:20 PM

No, it does not.